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Israel: To Support, Or Not


pi3141

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3 hours ago, Macnamara said:

It was the article that said about treason when it said:

''At what point does lying to the public to advance the interests of a foreign power and con America into war become a criminal conspiracy and an act of treason?''

 

The article was questioning the story of the new york times.

 

That's not the same as saying no sexual violence occurred on that day. I didn't claim no rape happened that day and the article was saying that no 'mass rape' occurred on that day because the new york times was trying to claim that there was a systemic and planned use of sexual violence

 

 

 

So in other words, you posted a piece of crap that you didn’t bother to check for yourself, without any context and when questioned on it you distance yourself from it.

 

So you just post crap that even you don’t believe for the sake of it.

 

It just so happens that the crap you post is always focussed on a particular world view.

 

Well, I will formally ask you, before you attempt to debate me on any subject, please, only post relevant, accurate information that you yourself stand by. I cannot be bothered with your childish tactics and your disinfo that you don’t stand by.

 

Its tiresome and juvenile, and you intentionally insert yourself into my conversations, I asked Enigmatic World a question on his Political thread and there you were jumping in to answer and drag the conversation off topic.

 

Please let other members answer for themselves, don’t jump into my topics, threads or conversation with fake crap that you don’t yourself believe.

 

Don’t throw stupid assertions around when you obviously don’t understand what your talking about.

 

It just makes me realise you are a pointless poster, just an echo chamber for stupid conspiracy theories and a childish debater.

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3 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

So in other words, you posted a piece of crap that you didn’t bother to check for yourself, without any context and when questioned on it you distance yourself from it.

 

So you just post crap that even you don’t believe for the sake of it.

 

i'm not distancing myself from that article. Where did i say that?

 

the article is correctly questioning the new york times article and i suggest to you that the entire purpose of that NYT article was what is called 'perception management' which is to say they wanted to galvanise public opinion against palestineans so that people would not complain when the israeli military went in there and flattened the place killing tens of thousands of CIVILIANS including CHILDREN

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the concerns of the people in that article is that the new york times is once again trying to drag america into another zionist war and they have called such behaviour treason and with that in mind i think it is totally reasonable for people to question the initial claims in order to establish exactly what is or isn't true about what happened on october 7th. That doesn't mean i don't think terrible things happened. I DO think terrible things happened and i wouldn't be surprised if there was sexual violence because once that war-door gets kicked in ugly things happen but that doesn't mean i'm going to unquestioningly believe anything the new york times claims.

 

''It must be underlined how disgraced Zionist journalist Judith Miller similarly lied America into war on behalf of Israel two decades ago with fake news stories in The Times claiming Iraq had WMDs and was working on a nuclear bomb.''

1-wmd-iraq-nyt.jpg

 

1-wmd-iraq-nyt2.jpg

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14 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

i wouldn't be surprised if there was sexual violence because once that war-door gets kicked in ugly things happen but that doesn't mean i'm going to unquestioningly believe anything the new york times claims.

 

Oh, do you think British soldiers use sexual violence once 'that war-door' gets kicked open?

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38 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

the concerns of the people in that article is that the new york times is once again trying to drag america into another zionist war and they have called such behaviour treason and with that in mind i think it is totally reasonable for people to question the initial claims in order to establish exactly what is or isn't true about what happened on october 7th. That doesn't mean i don't think terrible things happened. I DO think terrible things happened and i wouldn't be surprised if there was sexual violence because once that war-door gets kicked in ugly things happen but that doesn't mean i'm going to unquestioningly believe anything the new york times 

 

 

You really are full of it 'the concerns of the people'

 

Bullsh*t.

 

The article tries to frame there was no rape, its a piece of low grade propaganda from extremists and your trying to paint them as saintly concerned citizens questioning the authorities. 

 

Your full of sh*t and I think you believed that piece of propaganda you still have the audacity to call 'an article' ad if it has any merit whatsoever- which it doesn't. 

 

Take your Jew hatred elsewhere, I'm sick of it.

 

Will you sully our own Armed Services and claim our Forces engage in sexual violence when they go to conflict.

 

No I bet you don't dare, instead you'll be an apologetic for a sick ideology that uses lies to brainwash children to hate and kill in extreme ways.

 

But your so deluded in your hatred for the Jews that you don't have any decency or ability to make an accurate assessment of the situation.

 

You post fake crap and believe lies.

 

Don't waste my time anymore. 

 

Edited by pi3141
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4 hours ago, Macnamara said:

2) you support israel in their genocide of gaza

 

 

Well let me see if I can accurately sum up your position on this.

 

Hamas have pretty much stated in their Charter for the Genocide of Jews.

 

 

17 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Ideology

The 1988 Charter makes draws heavily on quotations from the hadith and Qur'an and builds an argument that Jews deserve God's/Allah's enmity and wrath because they received the Scriptures but violated its sacred texts, rejected the signs of Allah, and slew their own prophets.[60] The introduction of the charter identifies Hamas's struggle as a continuation of "Our [long and dangerous] struggle with the Jews…".[61]

 

Article Seven of the Charter concludes with a quotation from a hadith:

 

The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.' Only the Gharkad tree would not do that, because it is one of the trees of the Jews.

 

— Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj.[1]

 

Jeffrey Goldberg, editor-in-chief of The Atlantic magazine, criticized the founding charter of Hamas by labelling it as a "genocidal" document and compared it to The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.[10] Referring to the charter in an article in The New Yorker magazine, American commentator Philip Gourevitch accused Hamas leadership of having "genocidal" intentions against Jews.[9] According to Bruce Hoffman, the Hamas Charter exhibits "genocidal intentions".[62]

 

Militant Jihad

The 1988 Charter went further in detailing how Jihad against the Jews was a duty. "The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters."[1]

 

Antisemitic canards

The 1988 charter contains references to antisemitic canards, such as the assertion that through shrewd manipulation of imperial countries and secret societies, Jews were behind a wide range of events and disasters going as far back in history as the French Revolution.

 

With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money, they formed secret societies, such as Freemason, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.

 

— Hamas Charter, Article 22

 

 

So it seems clear that you support the Muslim Genocide of Jews.

 

Pretty sick Mac.

 

To be clear, I don't support any form of Genocide.

 

I would say your nuance view of the world you hold in such high intellectual esteem for yourself, combined with your hatred for the Jews, has twisted your mind so badly, you openly support Genocide of Jewish people.

 

 

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New evidence confirms Israel’s full involvement in ‘Flour Massacre’ of starving Palestinian civilians

06 Mar 2024

Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor said that starving the people of Gaza, killing the starving people, and obstructing the entry and distribution of humanitarian supplies, especially in Gaza City and the northern Strip, demonstrates Israel’s aim of forcibly displacing the Palestinian people there as part of its genocide, ongoing since 7 October 2023.

Euro-Med Monitor stressed that the Israeli army’s extrajudicial executions and intentional, illegal killings of Palestinian civilians who have not taken any part in hostilities amount to serious violations of international humanitarian law, and are war crimes and crimes against humanity as defined by the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. These crimes, which Israel has been committing against the Gaza Strip’s people since 7 October, violate the right of Palestinians to life in accordance with international human rights law, and constitute acts of genocide.

The Geneva-based rights group urged the international community to force Israel to halt its starvation campaign against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip in order to prevent the impending catastrophe of mass famine there, and to hold Israel accountable for its crimes and grave violations against the Strip and all of its Palestinian residents.

Euro-Med Monitor also called for more effective and decisive international intervention to ensure the safe, complete, and reliable delivery of humanitarian supplies to the Gaza Strip, without any hindrance, and thus guarantee the provision of and access to desperately needed basic services and humanitarian assistance for all affected people there.

https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6207

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One needs to be careful who you support and don't.

It's nothing to do with politically correct etc.

By siding with one side or the other, you may end up being caught in a sacrificial net.

But I guess most are caught already anyway..... All the best to you.

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Kibbutz Be’eri Rejects Story in New York Times October 7 Exposé: “They Were Not Sexually Abused”

“It’s not true,” said the kibbutz spokesperson, of one of the stories featured in the paper’s controversial article.

March 4 2024, 6:28 p.m.

Two of the three victims specifically singled out by the New York Times in a marquee exposé published in December, which alleged that Hamas had deliberately weaponized sexual violence during the October 7 attacks, were not in fact victims of sexual assault, according to the spokesperson for the Kibbutz Be’eri, which the Times identified as the location of the attack.

The rejection of the Times reporting in the kibbutz by Be’eri spokesperson Michal Paikin further undermines the credibility of the paper’s controversial December article “‘Screams Without Words’: How Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence on Oct. 7.”

The Times article described three alleged victims of sexual assault for whom it reported specific biographical information. One, known as the “woman in the black dress,” was Gal Abdush. Some of her family members have contested the claims made by the Times. The other two alleged victims were unnamed teenage sisters from Kibbutz Be’eri whose precise ages were listed in the New York Times, making it possible to identify them. 

According to data from the Israeli government’s public list of the victims who died at the kibbutz during the October 7 attacks, as well as a memorial page established by the community itself, the victims in Kibbutz Be’eri matching the description in the New York Times article were sisters Y. and N. Sharabi, ages 13 and 16. (The Intercept has identified the girls but is not printing their first names.)

“No, they just — they were shot. I’m saying ‘just,’ but they were shot and were not subjected to sexual abuse.”

When asked about the claims made by the New York Times, Paikin independently raised their name. “You’re talking about the Sharabi girls?” she said. “No, they just — they were shot. I’m saying ‘just,’ but they were shot and were not subjected to sexual abuse.” Paikin also disputed the graphic and highly detailed claims of the Israeli special forces paramedic who served as the source for the allegation, which was published in the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, and other media outlets. “It’s not true,” she told The Intercept, referring to the paramedic’s claims about the girls. “They were not sexually abused.”

“We stand by the story and are continuing to report on the issue of sexual violence on Oct. 7,” Times spokesperson Danielle Rhoades Ha told The Intercept.

A spokesperson for the Israeli government, Eylon Levy, played a lead role in connecting the anonymous paramedic with international media outlets.

read on here https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/nyt-october-7-sexual-violence-kibbutz-beeri/?utm_medium=email

Israel's Chief Forensic Pathologist Pushed 'Hamas Beheaded Babies' Hoax

Chris Menahan
InformationLiberation
Mar. 06, 2024

https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=64323

 

 

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Western media concocts ‘evidence’ UN report on Oct 7 sex crimes failed to deliver

March 7, 2024

Western media promoted a UN report as proof Hamas sexually assaulted Israelis. Yet the report’s authors admitted they couldn’t locate a single victim, suggested Israeli officials staged a rape scene, and denounced “inaccurate forensic interpretations.”

On March 4, the United Nations released a report into sexual violence which has supposedly taken place amid the Israeli war on Gaza. The report was immediately celebrated in mainstream media outlets as proof of what scores of Israel lobbyists and journalists under their sway have insisted for months (despite a wealth of evidence to the contrary): that Hamas forces engaged in a systematic campaign of rape during their attack on Israel on October 7.

There was just one problem. The report’s authors flatly contradicted the idea that any evidence existed to prove a campaign of rape by Hamas.

Many legacy media outlets papered over this inconvenient fact with a few clever tweaks of language. The Associated Press, for example, repackaged claims of rape at Kibbutz Be’eri — which the UN report dismissed as “unfounded” — as “allegations of rape that could not yet be verified.” 

The AP wasn’t the only outlet to indulge in such creative writing. A March 5 New York Times headline insisted the UN report had uncovered the sought-after “Evidence of Sexual Assault in Hamas-Led Attack on Israel.”

But following a social media post by The Grayzone’s editor-in-chief, Max Blumenthal, the Times quietly amended its headline to read: “UN Team Finds Grounds to Support Reports of Sexual Violence in Hamas Attack.”

The NY Times has quietly altered its headline, walking back its claim that Patten gathered “evidence” of sexual assault by Hamas on 10/7

Now it’s “grounds to support reports of sexual violence” https://t.co/4A4NlZ8ck3 pic.twitter.com/SqJS2VbEfS

— Max Blumenthal (@MaxBlumenthal) March 5, 2024

 

Comments by the head of the UN team have made it clear the UN mission to Israel was the product of an Israeli public relations campaign. By United Nations Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict Pramila Patten’s own admission, the team was only dispatched following “pressure” by Israeli government-linked lobbying groups. Her personal schedule reveals its priorities: 15 days in Israel, and just two in occupied Palestinian territory.

And while the report says the UN team specifically declined to include “accounts collected by Israeli intelligence bodies, including those related to interrogations of alleged perpetrators, despite some being offered,” its authors go on to concede that “the mission team benefitted from the full cooperation of the Government of Israel,” noting that UN researchers were only able to visit the sites of 7 October attacks at the Nahal Oz military base, kibbutz Be’eri, the Nova music festival location, and Road 232 “with the support of the Israeli authorities.”

What’s more, the UN team openly admits it “held several rounds of meetings to review information” from the Israeli army, Israeli security service Shin Bet, and the Israeli National Police’s Oct. 7 investigation unit, Lahav 433. Further meetings were held with Israeli President Isaac Herzog and various Israeli functionaries.

But after their multi-week guided fishing expedition, the UN representatives came back mostly empty-handed.

While the UN special representative on sexual violence, Pramila Patten, claimed to have found “clear and convincing” information that sexual violence occurred on October 7, she declined to name the victims or perpetrators and refused to say whether there was any pattern connecting the incidents.

At a press conference following the report’s publication, Patten stressed that the mission “was neither intended nor mandated to be investigative in nature” but noted that despite repeated calls for those affected to come forward, her team had been unable to locate a single victim of sexual assault by Palestinians.

Passages within the report and comments made by UN officials suggest the researchers had an easier time debunking Israeli claims than proving them.

“In the medicolegal assessment of available photos and videos, no tangible indications of rape could be identified,” the report concluded.

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Open source material apparently proved no more fruitful to its authors than the Israeli-provided information.

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While the mission team reviewed extensive digital material depicting a range of egregious violations, no digital evidence specifically depicting acts of sexual violence was found in open sources,” they noted.

What evidence the UN team did find indicated that, on at least one occasion, Israeli authorities went out of their way to stage a hoax rape scene. In the case of a girl found separated from the rest of her family, naked from the waist down” in the aftermath of the strike on Kibbutz Be’eri, they wrote that it was determined by the mission team that the crime scene had been altered by a bomb squad and the bodies moved, explaining the separation of the body of the girl from the rest of her family.

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Speaking after Patten, Chloe Baszanger-Marnay, the leader of the UN Team of Expert on Rule of Law and Sexual Violence in Conflict, told reporters:

“On [Kibbutz] Be’eri, just to clarify, what we found was that there were two allegations we looked into that were unfounded. And they’re very well described in the reports and you’ll recognize them because they were highly publicized in the press. The rest, we could not verify. So… no, we could not verify any sexual violence in Be’eri at this point.”

Patten interjected: “There was an allegation that there were objects like knives that were inserted into the genitalia of a woman… the team reviewed the photos and we did not find anything like that.”

She even took a swipe at ZAKA, the ultra-Orthodox Israeli “rescue” group which helped host her visit, and which was responsible for many of the discredited claims of atrocities by Hamas on October 7. 

“Inaccurate, unreliable conclusions, forensic conclusions were drawn by untrained volunteer first responders,” Patten declared, clearly referring to ZAKA. “We give some examples in the report, such as interpreting an anal dilation as anal penetration, when, according to our experts, when [there’s] extensive burn damage, this is what you get – anal dilation. And the position of the body as a result of sever burn damage, again being interpreted as a sign of sexual violence, with spread legs, etc. So that also, it may not be in Be’eri, but it is a fact that we found many instances of unreliable, inaccurate forensic interpretations by untrained people.”

 

Regarding the supposed perpetrators of sex crimes on October 7, the UN team “did not make any finding as to any pattern because we did not look into attribution,” Patten told reporters.

The UN report itself openly blamed the Israeli government for the team’s inability to determine who may have committed alleged sex crimes, noting that “the lack of access and cooperation by the Israeli authorities with the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem and Israel (IICOI) and the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) despite their timely requests to investigate the events of 7 October and their aftermath resulted in the unavailability of United Nations sourced or verified information on sexual violence linked to the attacks committed by Hamas and other armed groups.”

This apparent refusal to pin the blame for apparent sex crimes on Hamas has been met with contempt by Israeli media figures.

During a March 6 interview about her report with Israel’s Channel 12 News, a visibly frustrated host badgered Patten for failing to conclude that Hamas was responsible for systematically sexually assaulting Israeli women. 

“May I just ask, why not put the responsibility and blame the atrocities quite simply on the perpetrators and say, ‘it was Hamas who did it?’” the host demanded.

Patten replied that the mission of her visit to Israel was “only for the purpose of gathering and analyzing information,” not for attributing alleged crimes to any perpetrator.

“It is pretty clear who did it, after talking to survivors who returned – it wasn’t the Belgians who did it,” chortled the host. 

“I think it’s up to your government to give access, and that was one of my first recommendations,” Patten responded.

The UN representative was referring to supposed Israeli survivors of sexual assault whom she was unable to meet during her visit, but who absolutely exist, according to Israel’s government.

Israel is frustrated with the UN report on Oct 7 sexual violence b/c it doesn't accuse Hamas or any other armed groups of these alleged acts

Pramila Patten says Israel should give access to an investigation to look into this

Israel refuses to cooperate with the UN investigation pic.twitter.com/MRxGyf7KGM

— Muhammad Shehada (@muhammadshehad2) March 6, 2024

https://thegrayzone.com/2024/03/07/media-concocts-un-hamas-rape-report/

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Leaked Israel lobby presentation urges US officials to justify war on Gaza with ‘Hamas rape’ claims

March 6, 2024
 

The Grayzone has obtained slides from a confidential Israel lobby presentation based on data from Republican pollster Frank Luntz. They contain talking points for politicians and public figures seeking to justify Israel’s assault on the Gaza Strip.

Two prominent pro-Israel lobby groups are holding private briefings in New York City to coach elected officials and well-known figures on how to influence public opinion in favor of the Israeli military’s rampage in Gaza, The Grayzone can reveal. These PR sessions, convened by the UJA-Federation and Jewish Community Relations Council, rely on data collected by Frank Luntz, a veteran Republican pollster and pundit.

A source who was present during several meetings provided Luntz’s slides to The Grayzone. Participants were informed that the presentations and data contained in the slides were strictly confidential, the source said.

“This is NOT helpful,” Luntz stated in response to an email from The Grayzone requesting his comment on the private meetings.

The Luntz-tested presentations on the war in Gaza urge politicians to avoid trumpeting America’s supposedly shared democratic values with Israel, and focus instead on deploying “The Language of War with Hamas.” According to this framing, they must deploy incendiary language painting Hamas as a “brutal and savage…organization of hate” which has “raped women,” while insisting Israel is engaged in “a war for humanity.”

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On his personal website, Luntz markets himself as “one of the most honored communications professionals in America today.” He has earned a small fortune crafting talking points for Republican Party heavyweights and scandal-stained corporate clients like Enron, the energy company which collapsed after engineering California’s energy crisis. Following the financial crash of 2008-09, Luntz advised the GOP on shielding the party’s big business donors from scrutiny. At around the same time, he furnished the Republican Governor’s Association with advice on undermining Occupy Wall Street, the movement demanding accountability for the banking industry’s malfeasance.

The celebrity GOP pollster has moonlighted as a consultant for the Israel lobby, producing a “Global Language Dictionary” for the now-defunct Israel Project in the aftermath of the brutal 2008-09 attack on Gaza known as Operation Cast Lead. In his propaganda handbook, Luntz counseled “leaders who are on the front lines of fighting the media war for Israel” to shy from debates related to the illegal occupation of Palestine.

“Avoid talking about borders in terms of pre- or post-1967,” he advised, “because it only serves to remind Americans of Israel’s military history. Particularly on the left, this does you harm.”

#Thanksgiving  with Israel’s finest. 

I was blessed to be invited to join 60 of the most heroic people I have ever met.

I bought them dinner… And they taught me the meaning of selfless service. pic.twitter.com/wcd79woPMO

— Frank Luntz (@FrankLuntz) November 23, 2023

 

Luntz’s Gaza war presentation puts his poll-tested tactics back in the Israel lobby’s hands, urging pro-Israel public figures to stay on the attack with incendiary language and shocking allegations against their enemies.

In one focus group, Luntz asked participants to state which alleged act by Hamas on October 7 “bothers you more.” After being presented with a laundry list of alleged atrocities, a majority declared that they were most upset by the claim that Hamas “raped civilians” – 19 percent more than those who expressed outrage that Hamas supposedly “exterminated civilians.”

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Data like this apparently influenced the Israeli government to launch an obsessive but still unsuccessful campaign to prove that Hamas carried out sexual assault on a systematic basis on October 7. Initiated at Israel’s United Nations mission in December 2023 with speeches by neoliberal tech oligarch Sheryl Sandberg and former US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, a recipient of hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations and speaking fees from Israel lobby organizations, Tel Aviv’s propaganda blitz has yet to produce a single self-identified victim of sexual assault by Hamas. A March 5 report by UN Special Representative on Sexual Violence Pramila Patten did not contain one direct testimony of sexual assault on October 7. What’s more, Patten’s team said they found “no digital evidence specifically depicting acts of sexual violence.”

To further the demonization of Palestinians, the Luntz-crafted slides advise that “Israel’s best response is the brainwashed children of Hamas spewing hatred towards Jews (even more than condemning Israelis) with words they don’t know the meaning of and can’t even pronounce.”

The portrayal of the youth of Gaza as ignorant tools of Hamas is clearly intended to deflect from Israel’s industrial-scale slaughter of some 15,000 children in the Gaza Strip since October 7, as well as the wounding, orphaning and starving of countless more in the besieged territory.

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To make their arguments stick, Luntz recommends pro-Israel forces avoid the exterminationist language favored by Israeli officials who have called, for example, to “erase” the population of Gaza, and to instead advocate for “an efficient, effective approach” to eliminating Hamas.

At the same time, veteran pollster acknowledges that Republican voters prefer phrases which imply maximalist violence, like “eradicate” and “obliterate,” while sanitized terms like “neutralize” appeal more to Democrats. Republican presidential candidates Nikki Haley and Donald Trump have showcased similar focus-grouped rhetoric with their calls to “finish them” and “finish the problem” in Gaza.

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As in past Israel-lobby seminars, Luntz has urged pro-Israel forces to divert from arguments about Israel’s military occupation of Palestinian territory by deploying banal slogans like, “Israelis have a right to defend themselves.”

 

“This is about Israelis,” a Luntz-crafted slide declares, “not about territory.”

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According to the pollster’s research, pro-Israel politicians should avoid references to “Israel” entirely and instead discuss “Israelis” when “setting the context” for a debate over the war in Gaza.

The recommended tweak hints at the PR crisis Israel lobby forces have encountered since Israel’s military invaded and besieged Gaza, leaving most of its residents homeless, placing its entire public health and sanitation system out of service, and exterminating over 2% of the overall population, according to conservative death toll estimates.

One slide demonstrates that only a small sliver of those polled by Luntz buy into the Israeli government’s mantra that “Hamas is ISIS.” The same visual aid counsels pro-Israel officials to shy away from the phrases “genuine accuracy” and “hard evidence,” and allude more generally to “the truth” when discussing Israel’s actions.

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Luntz acknowledges Israel’s mounting PR problems in a slide identifying the most powerful tactics employed by Palestine solidarity activists. “Israelis attacking Israel is the second most potent weapon against Israel,” the visual display reads beside a photo of a protest by Jewish Voices for Peace, a US-based Jewish organization dedicated to ending Israel’s occupation of Palestine.

“The most potent” tactic in mobilizing opposition to Israel’s assault on Gaza, according to Luntz, “is the visual destruction of Gaza and the human toll.” The slide inadvertently acknowledges the cruelty of Israel’s bombardment of Gaza, displaying a bombed out apartment building with clearly anguished women and children fleeing in the foreground.

But Luntz assures his audience, “It ‘looks like a genocide’ even though the damage has nothing to do with the definition.”

According to this logic, the American public can become more tolerant of copiously documented crimes against humanity if they are simply told not to believe their lying eyes.

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https://thegrayzone.com/2024/03/06/leaked-israel-lobby-officials-war-gaza-mass-rape/

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of course Bibi is going to say that.....the sabbateans can't achieve their supremacist goals until they create the third temple on temple mount as that is what harkens the coming of the messianic age when the moshiach will come and elevate the sabbateans above all other humans and make everyone their slaves

 

how could this be possible? It could be made possible very easily through the creation of a SMART-grid TECHNOCRACY with programmable central bank digital currencies, social credit scores, digital ID's, biomettrics, driverless cars, universal basic income all run, monitored and controlled by a central artificial intelligence which handles all of the data sent into the 5G CLOUD from all of the smart (wireless) appliances (EVERYTHING will be made 'smart')

 

That is THE conspiracy....but first they are going to need to get rid of the al aqsa mosque so that they can build their temple....then comes the messiah, then comes the enslavement of the entire human race aka 'the great reset'....is everyone keeping up? are you seeing it yet?

 

Netanyahu's office claims Al-Aqsa Mosque compound is part of Israel
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office claimed that the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound, located in Palestine, is part of Israel.

Israel will allow worshippers to access the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in similar numbers to past years for the first week of Ramadan.

The decision regarding the occupied East Jerusalem holy site was made at a meeting of "all security elements" led by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, his office said on Tuesday on X, formerly Twitter.

The statement also claimed that Al-Aqsa, located in Palestine, was part of Israel and suggested members of all religions have a right to worship at the third holiest site in Islam, despite this breaching the longstanding status-quo arrangement governing the compound.

"Ramadan is sacred to Muslims; its sanctity will be upheld this year, as it is every year," Netanyahu's office said.

"During the first week of Ramadan, the entry of worshippers to the Temple Mount will be permitted, similar to the numbers in previous years," the office added, using a Jewish name to refer to the Al-Aqsa compound.

https://www.newarab.com/news/al-aqsa-mosque-part-israel-netanyahus-office-claims

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4 hours ago, DaleP said:

One needs to be careful who you support and don't.

It's nothing to do with politically correct etc.

By siding with one side or the other, you may end up being caught in a sacrificial net.

But I guess most are caught already anyway..... All the best to you.

 

Someties we have to pick a side. I know its not very Zen.

 

Perhaps I'm being hypocritical, because this war is exactly why I have now come to detest these Abrahamic religions, look at what it makes them do.

Its inhuman, and its the real root of the problem. 

 

Can't just stand back and watch them burn it.

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1 hour ago, Macnamara said:

Kibbutz Be’eri Rejects Story in New York Times October 7 Exposé: “They Were Not Sexually Abused”

“It’s not true,” said the kibbutz spokesperson, of one of the stories featured in the paper’s controversial article.

March 4 2024, 6:28 p.m.

Two of the three victims specifically singled out by the New York Times in a marquee exposé published in December, which alleged that Hamas had deliberately weaponized sexual violence during the October 7 attacks, were not in fact victims of sexual assault, according to the spokesperson for the Kibbutz Be’eri, which the Times identified as the location of the attack.

The rejection of the Times reporting in the kibbutz by Be’eri spokesperson Michal Paikin further undermines the credibility of the paper’s controversial December article “‘Screams Without Words’: How Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence on Oct. 7.”

The Times article described three alleged victims of sexual assault for whom it reported specific biographical information. One, known as the “woman in the black dress,” was Gal Abdush. Some of her family members have contested the claims made by the Times. The other two alleged victims were unnamed teenage sisters from Kibbutz Be’eri whose precise ages were listed in the New York Times, making it possible to identify them. 

According to data from the Israeli government’s public list of the victims who died at the kibbutz during the October 7 attacks, as well as a memorial page established by the community itself, the victims in Kibbutz Be’eri matching the description in the New York Times article were sisters Y. and N. Sharabi, ages 13 and 16. (The Intercept has identified the girls but is not printing their first names.)

“No, they just — they were shot. I’m saying ‘just,’ but they were shot and were not subjected to sexual abuse.”

When asked about the claims made by the New York Times, Paikin independently raised their name. “You’re talking about the Sharabi girls?” she said. “No, they just — they were shot. I’m saying ‘just,’ but they were shot and were not subjected to sexual abuse.” Paikin also disputed the graphic and highly detailed claims of the Israeli special forces paramedic who served as the source for the allegation, which was published in the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, and other media outlets. “It’s not true,” she told The Intercept, referring to the paramedic’s claims about the girls. “They were not sexually abused.”

“We stand by the story and are continuing to report on the issue of sexual violence on Oct. 7,” Times spokesperson Danielle Rhoades Ha told The Intercept.

A spokesperson for the Israeli government, Eylon Levy, played a lead role in connecting the anonymous paramedic with international media outlets.

read on here https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/nyt-october-7-sexual-violence-kibbutz-beeri/?utm_medium=email

Israel's Chief Forensic Pathologist Pushed 'Hamas Beheaded Babies' Hoax

Chris Menahan
InformationLiberation
Mar. 06, 2024

https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=64323

 

 

 

 

'Two of the three victims specifically singled out'

 

 

Your doing it again, your posting propaganda crap, 2 of the 3 out of the 1000's of stories about the 1000 people that were killed, 2 of those stories was actually wrong, and therefore Hamas was justified to attack Israel civilians and Israel is most certainly genocidal and Hamas is entirely innocent.

 

Its proved in your mind because out of the 1000's of people that were slaughtered in an attack, 2 of them were wrongly reported.

 

 

Carry on posting your propaganda Mac, its just displaying your hatred and inability to look at the facts and willingness to post deceptive information.

 

 

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@Macnamara

 

I'm not going to bother going through your propaganda entirely and arguing it point by point, cos you'll just post more crap that you probably haven't bothered to read and it will grind me down while you ignore valid reasoning.

 

So lets recap, 2 out of the 3 stories picked up at NYTimes, were incorrect.

 

So presumably the other example WAS correct.

 

So there WAS sexual violence.

 

From you posts above, if you bother to read it, states this - 

 

While the mission team reviewed extensive digital material, depicting a range of egregious violations, no digital evidence specifically depicting acts of violence was found in open sources.

 

Nonetheless, some digital material of circumstantial elements such as naked or partially naked bodiesmay be indicative of some forms of sexual violence.

 

'....some of the incriminating online materials, including those specifically depicting acts of sexual violence, had been removed or restricted by various platforms or by the offenders themselves.

 

 

So there is evidence suggesting sexual violence was used, its admitted that material posted online has been removed and is not accessible, and in one of the posts, it states although no digital evidence can be found at this time, that might change in future investigations. 

 

But because we can't find graphic images and because 2 cases were incorrectly reported, as far as your concerned, there was no sexual violence at all.

 

And because some stories rushed out in the aftermath of an attack, and during a conflict were wrong, to you, Hamas is innocent.

 

Because only 1 story of sexual violence has been shown to be true, that means there was no sexual violence.

 

Even though Israel was attacked by Hamas, Hamas brainwash their children with lies about the Protocols of Zion being true and even though they have stated in their mission statement to destroy Jews and Israel, that doesn't matter.

 

What matters most to you, is because Israel got some reports wrong after the attack, that in fact justifies Hamas attack on Israel, it justifies sexual violence being used 'because the war-door got kicked in' and it justifies Hamas calling for the destruction of Israel and brainwashing their children to hate using lies and fake propaganda. 

 

What a nuanced view you have.

 

How clever, and to think, if Hamas had never brainwashed their kids and soldiers to hate and attack Israel, and kill a load of civillians and take hostage a load more civilians, we would never have found out that Israel made mistakes assessing the attack.

 

What a crime that would have been.

 

I guess we have the Hamas attack to thank for bringing this to our attention. (Just don't mention the sexual violence and hostage taking of civilians, cos we only have limited proof so it really doesn't count)

 

I would just like to say, that when the 'war-door' gets kicked in, British soldiers DO NOT engage in sexual violence or taking civillan hostages.

 

Only your friends seem to do that.

 

But that's OK in your mind, because some of the stories which came out afterwards were wrong, so the attack and ideology of Hamas is justified.

 

Astounding. 

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I see my actual views on this matter are being maliciously twisted out of shape as per usual so let me straighten out the record

 

I don't 'hate' anyone. I am not doing any harm to anyone nor do i have any intention to do any harm to anyone. What i AM doing is pointing out the harms being done by others and of course those others don't like having their crimes pointed out so they always seek to silence people like me. But if they are the ones DOING the actual harms then clearly THEY are the ones guilty of HATE.

 

I don't support the hamas attack on israel though as someone who wants to always move my perception of reality closer and closer to the truth i have to ask how a country like israel that has some of the best security in the world could have allowed such an attack to happen especially as they were tipped off by different sources that something was about to go down? In the same way we can ask why the US moved its pacific fleet to pearl harbour, within range of the japanese when there had been warnings that the japanese intended to attack after they had been subjected to aggressive sanctions from the US? If that sounds a bit too conspiratorial to some then consider that the admiral of the pacific fleet refused to follow the order to move the fleet to pearl harbour where it would be a sitting duck so he was stood down and replaced.

 

What i'm suggesting is that these events are allowed to happen in order to the  justify massive actions of violence and to pull entire countries into a state of war.

 

As for the new york times article i see that as then part of the propaganda wing of that whole problem, reaction, solution operation. The article claimed that there was a systemic use of sexual violence as a kind of deliberate policy weaponisation of sexual violence on the part of hamas. So the question then is whether or not isolated acts of sexual violence occurred that would be the sole fault of the perpetrator involved or whether or not there was widespread weaponised sexual violence? So if the new york times article is then found to have ginned up events that didn't happen in order to make a claim of systemic sexual violence then we can see that clearly they have lied to make a claim aimed at turning public opinion against hamas so that the public wouldn't complain when US public money was sent to israel in ever greater amounts and when the IDF started flattening gaza and killing tens of thousands of people, mostly children.

 

Imagine surviving a bombing attack and trying to explain to your shellshocked children why your home was now rubble and your relatives and friends were no longer there.

 

There was a story in the papers yesterday about a scottish BBC presenter who just dropped dead jogging aged 32. Now many of us know why this happened and why so many other young people are now dropping dead: because the zionist controlled british state just rolled out a bioweapon in the form of 'covid' jabs into most of the british public which is an act of war against the british nation and its people.

 

The covid jabs are simply the latest in the string of crimes by the same cabal of people who are behind the central banks. If you look at my 'endocrine disrupting chemicals' thread in the 'health' section of this forum you will see the sheer quantity of toxic substances that are not naturally occurring but which have been added to every day goods manufactured by the large corporations that are owned by that cabal and you can see that a quiet war is being waged against us. Those chemicals affect the glands of the human body and have various effects which we are now seeing being reported such as gender bending, IQ lowering, sperm lowering, fertility lowering, cancer causing etc etc.

 

That 32 year old scot who dropped dead isn't just some poor chap who got dealt a bad hand in life in an isolated example of a health incident, he is a casualty in a war being waged against not only the british people but the people of the world by an occult cabal who are hellbent on global domination. Their prophecy is that they will achieve this global domination once they build a third temple and the messiah comes. I suggest that their messiah is the artificial intelligence which they are working on in israel to be at the centre of the technocracy being built across the west under the excuse of 'combatting climate change'. To build the temple they need to first remove the muslim mosque, the al aqsa which is on that site and it is the repeated raid of the mosque by israeli settlers which hamas claims is what has provoked their october attack on israel which they called 'operation al aqsa flood'. But the cabal behind israel, who also clearly have the states of britain and US by the balls won't stop raiding that site and are not going to rest until that mosque is rubble and a new temple is built. Who knows perhaps in the holy of holies they will house their artificial intelligence processing unit...

 

Now tell me their actions are not hateful

Edited by Macnamara
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11 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

Someties we have to pick a side. I know its not very Zen.

 

Perhaps I'm being hypocritical, because this war is exactly why I have now come to detest these Abrahamic religions, look at what it makes them do.

Its inhuman, and its the real root of the problem. 

 

Can't just stand back and watch them burn it.

 

i was just looking at your creepy eye avatar with a magnifying lens....are those hebrew letters around the edge of the eye?

 

you wouldn't be trying to cast the evil eye on the forum would you?

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1 hour ago, Macnamara said:

 

i was just looking at your creepy eye avatar with a magnifying lens....are those hebrew letters around the edge of the eye?

 

you wouldn't be trying to cast the evil eye on the forum would you?

 

🤔

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Macnamara said:

I was just looking at your creepy eye avatar with a magnifying lens....are those hebrew letters around the edge of the eye?

 

you wouldn't be trying to cast the evil eye on the forum would you?

 

You've asked me before about that, I explained what it was, an old Rave logo from the Spectrum days at Heaven.

 

Do you think our British soldiers use the same tactics that Hamas use?

 

Do you know of any other group that uses fake stories, like Protocols of Zion, to brainwash their children to hate.

 

Do you know of any other religion that claims its a religious duty to kill?

 

What other Armies have openly attacked and kidnapped civilians?

 

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The righteous Muslims -

 

Boko Haram releases new video claiming to show Chibok girls: 'We are never coming back'
"We are never coming back," one of the girls says in the video.

 

video released in Nigeria this week by Boko Haram purportedly shows some of the schoolgirls who were abducted from the town of Chibok nearly four years ago, vowing to stay with the militants and never return home.

 

About a dozen girls and young women clad in Islamic garb appear in the footage released Sunday by Boko Haram, which has waged a brutal insurgency in northeast Nigeria since 2009. A few of the girls' faces are covered, and some are seen with young children.

 

We are the Chibok girls," one of the girls says in Hausa language in the video, according to translations by news agencies. “We are the ones you are crying about for us to come back. By the grace of Allah, we are never coming back.”

 

Boko Haram, which seeks to establish an Islamic state, has spread its terror across Nigeria's mountainous borders over the years into Niger, Chad and Cameroon, all of which surround the Lake Chad Basin. The jihadist group, whose name roughly translates into "Western education is forbidden," has killed more than 20,000 people and displaced some 2.3 million, according to the latest figures from the United Nations.

 

Link - https://abcnews.go.com/International/boko-haram-releases-video-claiming-show-chibok-girls/story?id=52404798

 

More than 200 children are abducted from Nigerian school in raid linked to Boko Haram terror group
By Chris Jewers
09:54 08 Mar 2024, updated 12:03 08 Mar 2024

 

Suspected jihadists kidnapped more than 200 pupils during a raid on a school in northwest Nigeria on Thursday, according to reports.

Witnesses said the pupils in Kaduna State were in the assembly ground at 8.30am (7.30am GMT) when dozens of gunmen riding motorcycles stormed the school.

 

Thursday's attack happened in Chikun, Kaduna - a region of Nigeria controlled by Ansaru, a breakaway faction of the insurgent terror group Boko Haram, which has been responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people in recent years.

The jihadist group has carried out massacres - including the killing of 59 schoolboys in February 2014, and other mass abductions - most famously the April 2014 kidnapping of 276 schoolgirls in Chibok, in Borno State.

 

As of June 2023, over 90 of the Chibok girls remain missing.  

 

Link - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13172667/More-200-children-abducted-Nigerian-school.html

 

@Macnamara

 

You down with this, Muslim soldiers think its OK to kidnap Christian children (Chibok girls) brainwash them, make them have children and refuse to ever return them?

 

You down with using fake propaganda to poison children's minds to hate?

 

You down with using scripture to behead or otherwise execute human beings for making fun of Prophet Mohammed or stating they've chosen to stop believing and therefore be executed for apostasy as they do in Saudi and Pakistan?

 

Your down with this hate?

 

This is acceptable to your morals?

 

Attacking and kidnapping women and children, while filming yourself doung it, is acceptable military behaviour to you is it?

 

Do you think our military do it?

 

Can you provide proof Israel has done it?

 

Taking prices of information, selectively quoting excerpts to present a different truth - known as propaganda, is truth to you is it?

 

Can you not tell a piece of propaganda when you see it?

 

Did you actually fall for the propaganda you posted or are you knowingly posting propaganda?

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Screenshot_20240309_022850_Gallery.jpg

 

Cast a spell on the forum'

 

Lol.

 

No, it's the flyer for Spectrum and the cover of some Ibizan Rave tunes from back in the day.

 

 

Edited by pi3141
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Pakistan student sentenced to death over 'blasphemous' WhatsApp messages

 

A court in Pakistan's Punjab Province sentenced a 22-year-old student to death for preparing photos and videos which contained alleged derogatory words about Prophet Muhammad and his wives.

 

Short
22-year-old student sentenced to death in Pakistan on blasphemy charges


17-year-old jailed for life in same case


Both accused deny charges, claim to be trapped in a false case

 

Source: India Today

 

 

Behold the religion of peace and tolerance that executes, stones women and kidnaps children to convert to Islam as well as using proven lies to brainwash their own children to hate and murder.

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