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Israel: To Support, Or Not


pi3141

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10 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

Not in 1900 when the Pogroms of Russia forced them as refugees to Palestine. 

 

As refugees they stole nothing but looked for help. Should we shoot those arriving on the boat to our shore as invaders.?

Gair comment. I was thinking more the illegal settlements etc of more recent years. The issue for me is that if no one enforces the so called agreements both sides will try it on. Not just in Palestine but anywhere. It doesn't make what happened justifiable. Unfortunately the average person who just wants to live a good life free from major stresses is forced to take a side. No government is helping in the middle east.

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13 hours ago, Bombadil said:

Gair comment. I was thinking more the illegal settlements etc of more recent years. The issue for me is that if no one enforces the so called agreements both sides will try it on. Not just in Palestine but anywhere. It doesn't make what happened justifiable. Unfortunately the average person who just wants to live a good life free from major stresses is forced to take a side. No government is helping in the middle east.

 

Yeah I know, as I wrote in my OP, I always looked on Israel as occupiers, although I understood the Jews were not aggressive invaders but refugees.

 

Either way, it wasn't their land.

 

The Balfour treaty did not have any justification, just us Brits thinking we know best and looking after our own interests while interfering with another country's progress.

 

How we got here is irrelevant at this point.

 

Someone might day the Jews started it by entering Palestine, but history shows they were largely forced there.

 

It can be argued that the Palestinians with the support of other Arab states started the hostilities, but what would anyone do if they felt their land being taken over. So it's understandable. 

 

And it can be shown that Israel has committed atrocities and broken International laws. 

 

It's a freaking mess at this point, but we cannot turn back time.

 

They have to find a way to move forward. 

 

But read the Hamas Charter, it doesn't look like they'll agree to peace, ever, let alone soon.

 

 

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Israel and US have begun construction on a port located 20 miles off the $500 Billion Gaza Marine Oil & Gas fields, where tens of thousand have been killed. All under the guise of constructing a 'beach head'/pier to deliver aid. It was always about the $£€. 

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51 minutes ago, wagdog19 said:

Israel and US have begun construction on a port located 20 miles off the $500 Billion Gaza Marine Oil & Gas fields, where tens of thousand have been killed. All under the guise of constructing a 'beach head'/pier to deliver aid. It was always about the $£€. 

 

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Never thought I would watch, or even recommend anything on BBC, but just watched " The Other War" by Isobel Yeung ( stunning babe 😍) on BBC3, about Palesine/Israel. Very powerful. I must add, I support neither side, I promote humanity. Hence, I disagree and despise 90?% of global leaders and governments. 

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Posted (edited)

 

Antisemitism Awareness Act passes House vote. Here's what the bill does. - CBS New York (cbsnews.com)

 

NEW YORK -- The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the Antisemitism Awareness Act Wednesday. 

It comes as campus protests are taking place across the country. While the protests have the support of many Jewish college students, many others have said they feel intimidated and unsafe. 

The Antisemitism Awareness Act could make it easier for concerned students to file civil rights complaints.  

CBS New York spoke with Reps. Mike Lawler and Josh Gottheimer, two sponsors of the bipartisan bill.

"We need to be able to define antisemitism," Lawler said.

The bill put forth by Republican Lawler and Democrat Gottheimer aims to do just that.

International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance defines antisemitism

The Antisemitism Awareness Act directs the Department of Education to use the definition promulgated by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance when enforcing federal anti-discrimination laws.

"Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews," the definition says.

It goes on to define examples of antisemitism, and some of the heated rhetoric heard on college campuses lately would be included.

"When you hear 'From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,' that is calling for the eradication of Jews and the state of Israel," Lawler said.

 

"All of our colleges have a responsibility to protect against hate and discrimination. There's a difference between speech which should be protected and harassment and violence and intimidation, like a death threat," Gottheimer said.

Colleges that fail to protect Jewish students could face civil rights enforcement.

What about legitimate criticism of Israel?

Critics of the new legislation, including Rep. Jerry Nadler, of New York, say the bill sweeps too broadly and would chill constitutionally protected free speech, including legitimate criticism of Israel.

However, others say speech has limits and some of the rhetoric crosses the line into harassment.

Omer Granot-Lubaton, a graduate student at Columbia University, said, "A lot of people come to me, 'Well, maybe they don't understand what they're saying.' Those people are educated adults, going to the best institutions in the world. They should know what they say."

The bill still needs to pass the Senate and be signed by President Joe Biden to become law.

It's not clear if House Speaker Mike Johnson will bring other bills to a vote, including one to create a national antisemitism coordinator position in the White House.

 
Does this mean there will also be a new Antigentilism Awareness Act to protect non-Jews from violent Zionist radicals and extremists in the States?
 
Noun 
antigentilism (uncountable)
Hatred towards or prejudice against gentiles.
 
Sources 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

'Shark Tank's Kevin O'Leary Warns Student Protesters Are 'Screwed' (msn.com)

 

AA1o35Iq.jpg.d8ab7cd48469843607dcadc1fc791ec8.jpg

Kevin O’Leary is seen at the Fox News Channel Studios on April 18, 2024 in New York City.

 

O’Leary warned that pro-Palestinian student protesters are “screwed” due to AI background checks being used for employment.

Shark Tank's Kevin O'Leary warned that pro-Palestinian student protesters may be "screwed" while applying to jobs in the future due to artificial intelligence (AI) background checks.

 

Police Storm Columbia University Building and Arrest Pro-Palestinian Protesters (msn.com)

 

 

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, WJ 777 said:

 

Antisemitism Awareness Act passes House vote. Here's what the bill does. - CBS New York (cbsnews.com)

 

NEW YORK -- The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the Antisemitism Awareness Act Wednesday. 

It comes as campus protests are taking place across the country. While the protests have the support of many Jewish college students, many others have said they feel intimidated and unsafe. 

The Antisemitism Awareness Act could make it easier for concerned students to file civil rights complaints.  

CBS New York spoke with Reps. Mike Lawler and Josh Gottheimer, two sponsors of the bipartisan bill.

"We need to be able to define antisemitism," Lawler said.

The bill put forth by Republican Lawler and Democrat Gottheimer aims to do just that.

International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance defines antisemitism

The Antisemitism Awareness Act directs the Department of Education to use the definition promulgated by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance when enforcing federal anti-discrimination laws.

"Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews," the definition says.

It goes on to define examples of antisemitism, and some of the heated rhetoric heard on college campuses lately would be included.

"When you hear 'From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,' that is calling for the eradication of Jews and the state of Israel," Lawler said.

 

"All of our colleges have a responsibility to protect against hate and discrimination. There's a difference between speech which should be protected and harassment and violence and intimidation, like a death threat," Gottheimer said.

Colleges that fail to protect Jewish students could face civil rights enforcement.

What about legitimate criticism of Israel?

Critics of the new legislation, including Rep. Jerry Nadler, of New York, say the bill sweeps too broadly and would chill constitutionally protected free speech, including legitimate criticism of Israel.

However, others say speech has limits and some of the rhetoric crosses the line into harassment.

Omer Granot-Lubaton, a graduate student at Columbia University, said, "A lot of people come to me, 'Well, maybe they don't understand what they're saying.' Those people are educated adults, going to the best institutions in the world. They should know what they say."

The bill still needs to pass the Senate and be signed by President Joe Biden to become law.

It's not clear if House Speaker Mike Johnson will bring other bills to a vote, including one to create a national antisemitism coordinator position in the White House.

 
Does this mean there will also be a new Antigentilism Awareness Act to protect non-Jews from violent Zionist radicals and extremists in the States?
 
Noun 
antigentilism (uncountable)
Hatred towards or prejudice against gentiles.
 
Sources 

 

 

 

Does US House antisemitism bill violate Christian scripture? | Kansas City Star

Why did the people choose Barabbas over Jesus? After so many centuries, are we still choosing Barabbas over Jesus?

Why is the character of Barabbas so offensive to people who identify as Jews. It seems as if anyone who posts a negative view of them is immediately silenced.

 

Why is that?

 

Under Pontius Pilate, the Jews were given a choice, free Barabbas or Jesus who is called the Christ. The Jews chose to free Barabbas.

 

MTG Cites Antisemitic Fable Jews ‘Handed Over’ Jesus To Be Killed (talkingpointsmemo.com)

“Antisemitism is wrong, but I will not be voting for the Antisemitism Awareness Act of 2023 (H.R. 6090) today that could convict Christians of antisemitism for believing the Gospel that says Jesus was handed over to Herod to be crucified by the Jews,” Greene wrote.

Etymology

Christ comes from the Greek word χριστός (chrīstós), meaning "anointed one". The word is derived from the Greek verb χρίω (chrī́ō), meaning "to anoint."[13] In the Greek Septuagintχριστός was a semantic loan used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Mašíaḥ, messiah), meaning "[one who is] anointed".

 

 

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On 5/2/2024 at 12:51 AM, pi3141 said:

But read the Hamas Charter, it doesn't look like they'll agree to peace, ever, let alone soon.

that one is a no brainer to me as both sides are controlled by the same people!!!

 

"The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous."

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3 hours ago, Screamingeagle said:

that one is a no brainer to me as both sides are controlled by the same people!!!

 

"The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous."

 

I was thinking about that quote and comparing to the conflict in Northern Ireland. Over there they supposedly had the end of the troubles with the Good Friday Agreement engineered by Tony Blair and Mo Mowlam, but the long-term plan is to swamp Ireland with mass immigration once the dust has settled on the locals fighting their brother wars. So yes, the war is continuous but it continues by other means. 

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10 hours ago, Screamingeagle said:

that one is a no brainer to me as both sides are controlled by the same people!!!

 

"The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous."

 

And to me, both sides are controlled by the same System - Religion.

 

It's their respective religions that have bought them to this point.

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6 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

It's their respective religions that have bought them to this point.

at the surface  yes, but the cabal that is behind is the master mind of the whole situation/s

religion is just one of the tools for manipulation

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7 hours ago, Screamingeagle said:

at the surface  yes, but the cabal that is behind is the master mind of the whole situation/s

religion is just one of the tools for manipulation

 

I don't believe the Ayatollah of Iran, Hamas or even Israel are taking orders from anyone higher up. They are the top and they are working to their own programming.

 

The Jews think Israel is their spiritual homeland and they are God's chosen people.

 

The Muslims think they are the true followers of God's religion and everyone else is an infidel.

 

The Ayatollah thinks he is the supreme leader in Islam and effectively whatever he thinks or does is Gods will and according to God's plan for Islam to take over the world an bring in the true religion to everyone.

 

The Pope believes he is God's spokesman on Earth and anything he says is God's will.

 

Hence they are all guided by their own internal programming, dictated by their beliefs in themselves and their religion.

 

This conflict was inevitable - the Jews believe their will be a great conflict between Gog and Magog and God will return them to Israel.

 

The Muslims believe there will be an end war with the Dajal and Christ will return following Mohamed and tell all the Christians 'don't follow me, I follow Mohammed' all the non-bellievers will be killed or convert and then Islam will rule.

 

The Christians believe there will be a terrible war and Christ will return to slay Satan. Judgement will come to all and some will be destroyed and the Christians will usher in a Heaven on Earth and reign in peace until the end times and the Lions and Tigers will turn vegetarian and be house pets. See Watchtower for that.

 

Don't you see - they all have been given a script where they are the chosen ones, they all predict a great war will signal end times and after there will be peace with either of them as the chosen ones.

 

WHO gave ALL these religions their script?

 

They are the hidden hand in all this, but they ceased to exist a long time ago, however the events they set in motion with these fake religions is what bought us here to where we are today, and all the factions involved will adhere to their programming that they are the true chosen ones and their war, and killing, is justified by God. Its what their Holy scriptures state. Those 2000 year old documents of largely unknown origin cast a powerful spell over peoples minds and have done for the last 2000 years. There’s your control system, but everyone in it is working autonomously but with the guidance and in accordance with their beliefs.

 

Its fucked, unless people throw off the mental chains of their religion and see humanity for what it is.

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3 hours ago, wagdog19 said:

How rich do you have to be to be able to criticise zionism/Israel? Or bloodline..

 

Lol, well Musk didn't get away with it, or that idiot Ye.

 

Nor Mel Gibson.

 

I think if your to rich they'll jump all over you, but in the UK's history, we've had plenty of people criticising. 

 

Richard Chamberlain was an outspoken anti semite that was 1940's.

 

Simon De Montford kicked the Jews out of Leicester and cancelled all debts back in the 1700's

 

Hitler.

 

Russian Pogroms.

 

So plenty of people have done and got away with it.

 

Our aristocracy wasn't particularly happy after the Waterloo fiasco where the Crypto Jew Rothschilds bought England for a song.

 

Have you seen the Palestinian protests on the streets of London against Israel? And all over the world?

 

They seem to be getting away with it.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

 

I don't believe the Ayatollah of Iran, Hamas or even Israel are taking orders from anyone higher up. They are the top and they are working to their own programming.

 

The Jews think Israel is their spiritual homeland and they are God's chosen people.

 

The Muslims think they are the true followers of God's religion and everyone else is an infidel.

 

The Ayatollah thinks he is the supreme leader in Islam and effectively whatever he thinks or does is Gods will and according to God's plan for Islam to take over the world an bring in the true religion to everyone.

 

The Pope believes he is God's spokesman on Earth and anything he says is God's will.

 

Hence they are all guided by their own internal programming, dictated by their beliefs in themselves and their religion.

 

This conflict was inevitable - the Jews believe their will be a great conflict between Gog and Magog and God will return them to Israel.

 

The Muslims believe there will be an end war with the Dajal and Christ will return following Mohamed and tell all the Christians 'don't follow me, I follow Mohammed' all the non-bellievers will be killed or convert and then Islam will rule.

 

The Christians believe there will be a terrible war and Christ will return to slay Satan. Judgement will come to all and some will be destroyed and the Christians will usher in a Heaven on Earth and reign in peace until the end times and the Lions and Tigers will turn vegetarian and be house pets. See Watchtower for that.

 

Don't you see - they all have been given a script where they are the chosen ones, they all predict a great war will signal end times and after there will be peace with either of them as the chosen ones.

 

WHO gave ALL these religions their script?

 

They are the hidden hand in all this, but they ceased to exist a long time ago, however the events they set in motion with these fake religions is what bought us here to where we are today, and all the factions involved will adhere to their programming that they are the true chosen ones and their war, and killing, is justified by God. Its what their Holy scriptures state. Those 2000 year old documents of largely unknown origin cast a powerful spell over peoples minds and have done for the last 2000 years. There’s your control system, but everyone in it is working autonomously but with the guidance and in accordance with their beliefs.

 

Its fucked, unless people throw off the mental chains of their religion and see humanity for what it is.

 

"The Muslims think they are the true followers of God's religion and everyone else is an infidel."

this aint true. the word infidel is quite misleading. i think the correct word your looking for is "kaafir" - dis-believer (disbeliever in God) eg atheist
furthermore; Jews and Christians do not fall into this category as they are also people of faith clearly mentioned in the Quran.
and it is believed that 124 000 prophets were sent to mankind,with Islam being the "final upgrade"

the Quran also states:

“Then We sent Our messengers in succession, every time there came to a nation their messenger, they denied him, so We made them follow one another (to destruction), and We made them as ahadith (the true stories for mankind to learn a lesson from them). So away with a people who believe not” [al-Muminun 23:44]

“Verily! We have sent you with the truth, a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner. And there never was a nation but a warner had passed among them” [Fatir 35:24].

 

"Hence they are all guided by their own internal programming, dictated by their beliefs in themselves and their religion."
this is a major problem of EGO and a lack of discipline and greater vision.
there are examples in islamic battles, where soldiers were kicked out of the army for cussing their enemy's gods on the battlefield.
 

After the Prophet’s migration to Madinah, there was an incident at the well of Mouna where seventy of the Prophet’s companions were killed by some people belonging to three tribes near Madinah. This was a truly heinous murder committed without any provocation or reason. When the Prophet came to know about the matter, he was very saddened and prayed for the damnation of the murderers for one month until the Angel Gabriel appeared to the Prophet and told him that 'God has not sent you as the invoker of curses and damnation but as a mercy to mankind.'
 

Then these verses of the Quran were revealed to the Prophet:

You have no say in this affair to decide whether He will relent towards them or He will punish them: they are wrongdoers. Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth belongs to God. He forgives whoever He pleases and punishes whoever He pleases. God is most forgiving and ever merciful.
THE QURAN 3: 128-129

 

---

 

what is ironic is these major troubles all start at "the holy land". this includes the crusades as well.
i mean if its really the holy land, its God's land. so why does one specific group need to control it? better if no faction controlled it!
as far as i know, there are no scriptures in any of these religions which state that these lands have to be controlled by one side

-that is why i reckon its an EGO problem, which clouds the minds of so called believers.
 

anyway, these religions and their systems have existed for so long with some drama here and there but things have not been so bad as today.
so why now?

i believe this is all a part of The Great Reset taking place.

 

"The ECONOMIST 2012 - The Road to Hell" ...

 

02 the-economist-2012-cover - Copy.jpg

Edited by shabbirss
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Posted (edited)

Is Zionism a Death Cult?

 

 

Israeli Propaganda Song
 

"Within a year we will annihilate everyone.”


An Israeli song about the war in Gaza featuring child singers has sparked outrage in Israel on ...

Fact-check: Did Israeli children really sing about 'annihilating everyone in Gaza'? | Euronews [YES]

The lyrics were slammed by the online community as genocidal towards Gazans.

Here is an excerpt:


"Here the IDF is crossing the line
To annihilate the swastika bearers <--- READ THIS BULLSHIT
In another year there will be nothing there
And we will return safely to our home within a year
We will annihilate them all
And then return to plowing our fields"


The sooner the common Jews and Gentiles realize that The Satanic El-itists created both Communism and Nazism, the sooner the world will have the veil of deception lifted from their eyes.

 

What happens to children in cults?
 

Brutal corporate punishment of children is common, and normal parental nurturing and bonding is discouraged because it threatens bonding to the cult leader. Other documented physical and psychological abuse in cults include incest, starvation, denial of medical care, and emotional deprivation.

Disguised as a guidebook for capturing a devoted cult following, this docuseries takes a tongue-in-cheek look at the rise of six famed flock leaders.

 

Edited by WJ 777
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5 hours ago, pi3141 said:

don't believe the Ayatollah of Iran, Hamas or even Israel are taking orders from anyone higher up. They are the top and they are working to their own programming.

BS,hidden hand runs them all.....it is clear as day

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6 hours ago, shabbirss said:

 

"The Muslims think they are the true followers of God's religion and everyone else is an infidel."

this aint true. the word infidel is quite misleading. i think the correct word your looking for is "kaafir" - dis-believer (disbeliever in God) eg atheist
furthermore; Jews and Christians do not fall into this category as they are also people of faith clearly mentioned in the Quran.
and it is believed that 124 000 prophets were sent to mankind,with Islam being the "final upgrade"

the Quran also states:

“Then We sent Our messengers in succession, every time there came to a nation their messenger, they denied him, so We made them follow one another (to destruction), and We made them as ahadith (the true stories for mankind to learn a lesson from them). So away with a people who believe not” [al-Muminun 23:44]

“Verily! We have sent you with the truth, a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner. And there never was a nation but a warner had passed among them” [Fatir 35:24].

 

"Hence they are all guided by their own internal programming, dictated by their beliefs in themselves and their religion."
this is a major problem of EGO and a lack of discipline and greater vision.
there are examples in islamic battles, where soldiers were kicked out of the army for cussing their enemy's gods on the battlefield.
 

After the Prophet’s migration to Madinah, there was an incident at the well of Mouna where seventy of the Prophet’s companions were killed by some people belonging to three tribes near Madinah. This was a truly heinous murder committed without any provocation or reason. When the Prophet came to know about the matter, he was very saddened and prayed for the damnation of the murderers for one month until the Angel Gabriel appeared to the Prophet and told him that 'God has not sent you as the invoker of curses and damnation but as a mercy to mankind.'
 

Then these verses of the Quran were revealed to the Prophet:

You have no say in this affair to decide whether He will relent towards them or He will punish them: they are wrongdoers. Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth belongs to God. He forgives whoever He pleases and punishes whoever He pleases. God is most forgiving and ever merciful.
THE QURAN 3: 128-129

 

---

 

what is ironic is these major troubles all start at "the holy land". this includes the crusades as well.
i mean if its really the holy land, its God's land. so why does one specific group need to control it? better if no faction controlled it!
as far as i know, there are no scriptures in any of these religions which state that these lands have to be controlled by one side

-that is why i reckon its an EGO problem, which clouds the minds of so called believers.
 

anyway, these religions and their systems have existed for so long with some drama here and there but things have not been so bad as today.
so why now?

i believe this is all a part of The Great Reset taking place.

 

"The ECONOMIST 2012 - The Road to Hell" ...

 

02 the-economist-2012-cover - Copy.jpg

Is it reasonable to suggest that all religious texts, much like Nostradamus Quatrains, are translated and perverted to suit the agendas of whoever is trying to gain influence or power. The biblical Old Testament is full of hate, manipulation and fear mongering to keep the believers in line. Many today still live life by the teachings of this book. The Biblical New Testament is so different in its teachings to the Old Testament that they seem completely unrelated.

 

The point I guess is that virtually anything can be understood  in many ways. Not all with good intentions.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, shabbirss said:

 

"The Muslims think they are the true followers of God's religion and everyone else is an infidel."

this aint true. the word infidel is quite misleading. i think the correct word your looking for is "kaafir" - dis-believer (disbeliever in God) eg atheist
furthermore; Jews and Christians do not fall into this category as they are also people of faith clearly mentioned in the Quran.
and it is believed that 124 000 prophets were sent to mankind,with Islam being the "final upgrade"

the Quran also states:

“Then We sent Our messengers in succession, every time there came to a nation their messenger, they denied him, so We made them follow one another (to destruction), and We made them as ahadith (the true stories for mankind to learn a lesson from them). So away with a people who believe not” [al-Muminun 23:44]

“Verily! We have sent you with the truth, a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner. And there never was a nation but a warner had passed among them” [Fatir 35:24].

 

"Hence they are all guided by their own internal programming, dictated by their beliefs in themselves and their religion."
this is a major problem of EGO and a lack of discipline and greater vision.
there are examples in islamic battles, where soldiers were kicked out of the army for cussing their enemy's gods on the battlefield.
 

After the Prophet’s migration to Madinah, there was an incident at the well of Mouna where seventy of the Prophet’s companions were killed by some people belonging to three tribes near Madinah. This was a truly heinous murder committed without any provocation or reason. When the Prophet came to know about the matter, he was very saddened and prayed for the damnation of the murderers for one month until the Angel Gabriel appeared to the Prophet and told him that 'God has not sent you as the invoker of curses and damnation but as a mercy to mankind.'
 

Then these verses of the Quran were revealed to the Prophet:

You have no say in this affair to decide whether He will relent towards them or He will punish them: they are wrongdoers. Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth belongs to God. He forgives whoever He pleases and punishes whoever He pleases. God is most forgiving and ever merciful.
THE QURAN 3: 128-129

 

---

 

what is ironic is these major troubles all start at "the holy land". this includes the crusades as well.
i mean if its really the holy land, its God's land. so why does one specific group need to control it? better if no faction controlled it!
as far as i know, there are no scriptures in any of these religions which state that these lands have to be controlled by one side

-that is why i reckon its an EGO problem, which clouds the minds of so called believers.
 

anyway, these religions and their systems have existed for so long with some drama here and there but things have not been so bad as today.
so why now?

i believe this is all a part of The Great Reset taking place.

 

"The ECONOMIST 2012 - The Road to Hell" ...

 

02 the-economist-2012-cover - Copy.jpg

 

Yes I was using a quote from Anjem Choudary which was in the papers last week - apparently he stated the people who died were 'infidels' and as such Muslims have the right to kill or take their possessions. 

 

 

Perhaps I misunderstand but I thought the final revelation from God in the form of the Koran was sent because the people of the book had lost their way.

 

I thought, as Christians worship Jesus as God incarnate that Muslims rejected Christianity as being a valid religion. I was also told that Islam views Christians as Sun worshippers and idolators (worshipping the cross and images)

 

 

Question
What are the Ayah in Qur'an which mentioned the Christians and Jews and explain the Islam's position towards both religions?

 

Answer
Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the World; and may His blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.

 

So many verses in the Noble Qur'an show the prejudice, hatred and disbelief by the non-believers. They unduly change the words of the Scriptures as they like, and attribute to Allah some disgraceful qualities.


The Jews and Christians are called the "People of the Scripture" (or the Book). Due to the notoriety of the crusades among the Muslims, the Church officials preferred to be called Christians despite the fact that they are not true followers of Jesus Christ. Muslims should have no doubt that they are Kafirs. Please find below some of the verses in the Qur'an which refer to the Christians and Jews and their hostile attitude towards the Muslims:


The Noble Qur'an: {Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islâm, the Qur'ân and Prophet Muhammad ( sallallaahu  `alayhi  wa  sallam ( may  Allaah exalt his mention ))) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikûn will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.} [98:6].


{Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.} [9:29].


{They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allâh (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allâh), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilâh (God - Allâh) Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)."} [9:31].


{Say: "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Why do you reject the Ayât of Allâh (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) while Allâh is Witness to what you do?"} [3:98].


{And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allâh, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allâh. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allâh's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!} [9:30].

 

Link - https://islamweb.net/en/fatwa/84149/qurans-position-regarding-christians-and-jews

 

 

I can't find my links now but here is another quote - 

 

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler); he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya (i.e. taxation taken from non Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): -- 'And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) Before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness Against them." (4.159) (See Fath-ul-Bari, Page 302 Vol 7)

 

Link - https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3448

 

So it seems some people of Islam do think Jews and Christians as the worst creatures.

 

Apparently it is the interpretation of some Muslims that in the days of Judgement, it is a Muslims duty to kill the Pigs and Dogs' and I found a site where a Muslim stated the correct interpretation is that the Pigs and Dogs are the Jews and Christians?

 

Perhaps you can clarify, but I was under the impression Islam viewed 'some' Christians and Jews as having lost their way and are in error, hence the Quran was needed.

 

Is this not so?

 

Edit: I'm sure when I read the Quran there was definitely a verse about turning your backs on those that face the Sun to pray or something? It was about 15 years ago I read the book. I rejected it, so that makes me an apostate doesn't it?

 

What is the punishment for apostasy in Islam?

 

Question:
Assalamu Alaikum

What is the punishment for apostasy in Islam? One set of scholars say apostates should be put to death and others say only apostates who commit treason/blasphemy should be put to death. Which is correct?

 

Allah says “There’s no compulsion in Religion” in Quran 2:256. In that case, can we compel someone to be in Islam when they can’t be true to it? We don’t put non-Muslims to death for not accepting Islam. So how can we punish those who have left Islam? Please, clarify.

 

Answer:

Wa alaykum al-Salam

Thank you for your question.

The Schools of Jurisprudence
Abdullah ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, “Whoever changes their religion, kill them” (Bukhari).

 

The above narration and others form the basis for the ruling agreed upon by all four schools of jurisprudence that the apostate must be killed. However, they agree that such an order may only be passed by an Islamic ruler or a representative of his court. In addition, three of the four schools require that the apostate, after having been declared as such in court, be given an opportunity to repent. The Hanafi school considers the giving of this opportunity to be recommended and not required. It also takes the view that a female apostate may not be killed (al-Mawsuah al-Fiqhiyyah).

 

 

Edited by pi3141
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14 minutes ago, Bombadil said:

Is it reasonable to suggest that all religious texts, much like Nostradamus Quatrains, are translated and perverted to suit the agendas of whoever is trying to gain influence or power. The biblical Old Testament is full of hate, manipulation and fear mongering to keep the believers in line. Many today still live life by the teachings of this book. The Biblical New Testament is so different in its teachings to the Old Testament that they seem completely unrelated.

 

The point I guess is that virtually anything can be understood  in many ways. Not all with good intentions.

 

I think the Old and New Testaments are unrelated.

 

Its my understanding the the Old Testament was the 'Old' contract with God and Jesus came to change all that - eye for an eye stuff.

 

I do not know why the Christians insist on keeping the Old Testament in their Bible's. The New Testament from Jesus is closer to the truth. But again, as you say, not only do I believe some parts are misinterpreted to suit, I also know that parts have been changed, to again suit an agenda. Like Hell and Satan, they do not exist, but the Christians insist they do and have changed even their own saviours words to support their false belief.

 

Peter, you are rock, and on this rock I will build my church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.

 

When in fact the original states - 

 

Rock, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my community and the gates of death shall not prevail against it.

 

All these texts have been corrupted. I would say Islam is corrupted with the hadith, their Pilgrimages to Mecca, throwing stones at the devil, their Black Stone - this is all pagan superstitious nonsense and Islam is just as infected with it as Christianity and Judaism.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Bombadil said:

Is it reasonable to suggest that all religious texts, much like Nostradamus Quatrains, are translated and perverted to suit the agendas of whoever is trying to gain influence or power. The biblical Old Testament is full of hate, manipulation and fear mongering to keep the believers in line. Many today still live life by the teachings of this book. The Biblical New Testament is so different in its teachings to the Old Testament that they seem completely unrelated.

 

The point I guess is that virtually anything can be understood  in many ways. Not all with good intentions.


i agree. the main message is often lost or subverted for another agenda to take its place.

 

evil is the only real enemy. and as David Icke says : INFINITE LOVE is the only answer
it seems at some point, religions get hijacked by this evil force which leads (weak minded?) people astray,
instilling ego-driven desires while claiming to be religious


one could say "evil" is subjective but i am referring to the evil consciousness:
the negative force / satan / the archons / the bad jinn / wetiko / etc

i have personally seen exorcisms and know what evil is
(was helping out a hindu sage for a while - with logistics - not ghost busting, wish i could do it though)

- many of his patients who were possessed had the same eyes which some of the world leaders have
- extra white-glassy kind of, really dark and "not really here" kind of stare
- one case i personally saw 2x reflections of myself in the persons eyes! freaky stuff

 

 

Edited by shabbirss
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