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Israel: To Support, Or Not


pi3141

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The question of Israel and its relationship to the U.S., the UK , andd the Middle East was not immediately obvious to me, because of the cloudy narrative that has been spun for decades.

 

Once I looked beyond the biblical text/narrative, which has been the popular narrative by Christians and Jews (and conveniently pushed by both sides, including the global Zionists (most who are atheists)), it is clear to me that Israel was nothing more than a satellite state installed by two super powers—the U.S. and the UK— who want to extend their control and dominate in the Middle East. Historically, we know that the Europeans tried to dominate the Middle East as early as the 13th Century via two opposing powers—Rome and Constantinople. Eventually Rome defeated Constantinople and became the dominate religious power of Europe and tried to dominate the Middle East as well, and in the process subjugated Arabs and proArab Jews throughout.

 

Today, the issue as gone beyond religion, although religion is the narrative that is pushed via churches (nontaxable entities) in the U.S., Europe, and the UK.  However, this is a false narrative designed to support the modern Zionism movement, and its players; To validate the history of two major European powers —Germany and Great Britain—(and France and Belgium to a lesser degree) who wanted to control the Middle East and Africa for geopolitical reasons, natural asset acquisition, and cheap African labor; To shadow the shameless/blatant economic and financial deals made between Zionist business men, bankers, and the Germans before World War I and II; The brazen plan by Zionist paramilitary organization (the Lehi and Irgun)  to partner up with the Nazi's to terrorize and push British forces out of Palestine; And James Angleton —the father of the CIA's counterintelligence — open support of a nuclear capable Israeli state.

In conclusion, Israel is nothing more than a satellite for U.S and UK interests in the Middle East with log-term plans for military expansion and control over oil and gas resources, economic expansion into new markets, and control over shipping lanes from the Mediterranean Sea into the Indian Sea. Simply, Israel serves as the excuse for Western meddling, occupation, and ongoing influence in the region, while using the excuse that Israel has a biblical and a moral right to exist.

 

Most orthodox Jews refute Israel and refuse to display the Israeli flag, because they do not recognize Israel as a true Jewish state ordained by God, but as a political extension of Modern Zionism founded by the atheist, Theodor Herzl. Herzl was a radicalized Hungarian born activist who later lived in Austria. His ideology became more radicalized and militant before his death. After Herzl's death, the Zionist movement grew world-wide, and they organized into a powerful political movement which used its influence to eventually push for an Israeli state. The movement tried unsuccessfully to push for a Jewish state before WWI and WW II but where refuted by almost everyone including conservative Jewish Rabbi's who noted that this was against God's Law, and that Zionists are driven by political and economic ambition rather than the Tora teachings and will use religion to continue to push and validate their racist and facist actions. 

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20 hours ago, X15 said:

The question of Israel and its relationship to the U.S., the UK , andd the Middle East was not immediately obvious to me, because of the cloudy narrative that has been spun for decades.

 

Once I looked beyond the biblical text/narrative, which has been the popular narrative by Christians and Jews (and conveniently pushed by both sides, including the global Zionists (most who are atheists)), it is clear to me that Israel was nothing more than a satellite state installed by two super powers—the U.S. and the UK— who want to extend their control and dominate in the Middle East. Historically, we know that the Europeans tried to dominate the Middle East as early as the 13th Century via two opposing powers—Rome and Constantinople. Eventually Rome defeated Constantinople and became the dominate religious power of Europe and tried to dominate the Middle East as well, and in the process subjugated Arabs and proArab Jews throughout.

 

Today, the issue as gone beyond religion, although religion is the narrative that is pushed via churches (nontaxable entities) in the U.S., Europe, and the UK.  However, this is a false narrative designed to support the modern Zionism movement, and its players; To validate the history of two major European powers —Germany and Great Britain—(and France and Belgium to a lesser degree) who wanted to control the Middle East and Africa for geopolitical reasons, natural asset acquisition, and cheap African labor; To shadow the shameless/blatant economic and financial deals made between Zionist business men, bankers, and the Germans before World War I and II; The brazen plan by Zionist paramilitary organization (the Lehi and Irgun)  to partner up with the Nazi's to terrorize and push British forces out of Palestine; And James Angleton —the father of the CIA's counterintelligence — open support of a nuclear capable Israeli state.

In conclusion, Israel is nothing more than a satellite for U.S and UK interests in the Middle East with log-term plans for military expansion and control over oil and gas resources, economic expansion into new markets, and control over shipping lanes from the Mediterranean Sea into the Indian Sea. Simply, Israel serves as the excuse for Western meddling, occupation, and ongoing influence in the region, while using the excuse that Israel has a biblical and a moral right to exist.

 

Most orthodox Jews refute Israel and refuse to display the Israeli flag, because they do not recognize Israel as a true Jewish state ordained by God, but as a political extension of Modern Zionism founded by the atheist, Theodor Herzl. Herzl was a radicalized Hungarian born activist who later lived in Austria. His ideology became more radicalized and militant before his death. After Herzl's death, the Zionist movement grew world-wide, and they organized into a powerful political movement which used its influence to eventually push for an Israeli state. The movement tried unsuccessfully to push for a Jewish state before WWI and WW II but where refuted by almost everyone including conservative Jewish Rabbi's who noted that this was against God's Law, and that Zionists are driven by political and economic ambition rather than the Tora teachings and will use religion to continue to push and validate their racist and facist actions. 

 

i agree. it looks like expansion. colonizing the middle east from israel.

zionism,religion,etc is a smoke screen

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On 4/25/2024 at 7:29 PM, pi3141 said:

 

Your not kidding - 

 

 

Moroccan asylum seeker is found guilty of murdering a pensioner, 70, at random and attempting to kill his Christian convert housemate in 'revenge' for Israel-Hamas conflict

 

Moroccan asylum seeker was today found guilty of murdering an elderly stranger at random and attempting to kill his Christian convert housemate in 'revenge' for the Israel-Hamas conflict. 

 

Ahmed Ali Alid, a 45-year-old from Morocco, drifted around 13 European countries before entering Britain illegally and spending three years in official accommodation while waiting for his asylum claim to be processed.

 

His housemate, Iranian asylum seeker Javed Nouri, reported Alid to police and Home Office housing managers on October 9 and 13 - revealing how he would sit in the kitchen with a knife and give him 'bad looks' following his conversion to Christianity. 

 

Mr Nouri, who also described seeing Alid laughing at coverage of the October 7 attacks, was told by police there was nothing they could do unless he was carrying the knife around the house or using it to threaten people.

 

Two days after sharing his concerns, Nouri was woken at 5am to find Alid breaking into his bedroom brandishing two kitchen knives. The attacker stabbed him in the chest and face before he and another housemate were able to fight him off. 

 

Alid then prowled the streets of Hartlepool until he came across Terence Carney, 70, who was out for a morning walk, and knifing him to death. 

 

He told police the attack, a week after the Hamas attacks on Israel, was 'for the people of Gaza' and he had wanted to kill more victims. It is the first example of a terrorist attack in Britain inspired by the Hamas atrocities on Israel. 

 

a police interview following his arrest, Alid attacked two female officers, yelling 'Palestine' and 'Allahuakbar' [god is great] as he grabbed one of them and wrestled her to the ground, causing his solicitor to dial 999.

Asked if he intended to kill more people, Alid said: 'I swear by Allah if I had a machine gun and I had more weapons that they would be in thousands.

'I was going to contact someone to get me a machine gun and I would have done more and then that person told me to carry on with the knife.'

 

He told the officers if it had not been for the wounds to his hands from the knife, he would have continued the killing.

 

'There would have been more lives. My intention was to kill more people, not only him,' he added, referring to Mr Carney.

 

The court heard Alid, a former pastry chef, had travelled from Morocco to Spain in 2007.

He spent 13 years living in Italy, Germany - where he was denied asylum - and Spain, before arriving in Middlesbrough by ferry from the Netherlands in 2020.

 

claimed asylum and spent the next three years living in a hotel in Hull and then state-funded accommodation in a terraced house in Hartlepool, waiting for his claim to be processed.

 

Alid's housemate had alerted police that he was an 'extreme Muslim' and described how he found Alid laughing and 'watching terrorist news' on his phone in the kitchen following the October 7 attacks by Hamas.

 

'I told him how could somebody be happy when seeing humans getting killed?' he said.

 

During the savage knife attack, Nouri - a former body builder - described Alid shouting 'Allahuakbar' [god is great] the 'same as Daesh or ISIS.' 

 

'As he stabbed me in my heart, I did not feel any pain but I could see blood was pouring out. It was dark but I could see the knife shining in his hand and I was screaming, what are you doing?'

 

Link - Moroccan asylum seeker is found guilty of murdering a pensioner, 70 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13348955/Moroccan-asylum-seeker-guilty-murdering-pensioner-Gaza.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

 

 

What gets me, is it's his interpretation of Islam that allows people like him and the Hamas soldiers on Oct 7th to commit atrocities without conscience. 

 

Trying to kill a roommate cos he converted to Christianity is unbelievable but the fact is Islam tolerates and encourages such action as astounding. 

 

Except of course that's only meant to be happening at End Times.

 

How anyone can call Islam a religion of peace is beyond me.

 

It's a religion of hatred, slavery, prostitution and a supremacist ideology that disrespects women and consignment them to 2nd class citizens. 

 

The Hijab is a form of abuse.

 

 

here we are going around the world once again and off topic lol.
so a deranged man did some crime and the entire religion gets blamed for it?
all muslims are deranged, criminals now?

like you said before,
"all Abrahamic religions are control systems designed to bring about division and conflict. "

"But I don't believe in the 'Antichrist' or 'Satan' or any other nonsense those fake Abrahamic religions claim as Gospel."

but when you started this thread, you labelled  it as "I support israel" ?

i find it strange that you do not support these religious ideas of the Abrahamic faiths, but you choose a side.
care to explain? @pi3141

 

 



 

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20 hours ago, X15 said:

The question of Israel and its relationship to the U.S., the UK , andd the Middle East was not immediately obvious to me, because of the cloudy narrative that has been spun for decades.

 

Once I looked beyond the biblical text/narrative, which has been the popular narrative by Christians and Jews (and conveniently pushed by both sides, including the global Zionists (most who are atheists)), it is clear to me that Israel was nothing more than a satellite state installed by two super powers—the U.S. and the UK— who want to extend their control and dominate in the Middle East. Historically, we know that the Europeans tried to dominate the Middle East as early as the 13th Century via two opposing powers—Rome and Constantinople. Eventually Rome defeated Constantinople and became the dominate religious power of Europe and tried to dominate the Middle East as well, and in the process subjugated Arabs and proArab Jews throughout.

 

Today, the issue as gone beyond religion, although religion is the narrative that is pushed via churches (nontaxable entities) in the U.S., Europe, and the UK.  However, this is a false narrative designed to support the modern Zionism movement, and its players; To validate the history of two major European powers —Germany and Great Britain—(and France and Belgium to a lesser degree) who wanted to control the Middle East and Africa for geopolitical reasons, natural asset acquisition, and cheap African labor; To shadow the shameless/blatant economic and financial deals made between Zionist business men, bankers, and the Germans before World War I and II; The brazen plan by Zionist paramilitary organization (the Lehi and Irgun)  to partner up with the Nazi's to terrorize and push British forces out of Palestine; And James Angleton —the father of the CIA's counterintelligence — open support of a nuclear capable Israeli state.

In conclusion, Israel is nothing more than a satellite for U.S and UK interests in the Middle East with log-term plans for military expansion and control over oil and gas resources, economic expansion into new markets, and control over shipping lanes from the Mediterranean Sea into the Indian Sea. Simply, Israel serves as the excuse for Western meddling, occupation, and ongoing influence in the region, while using the excuse that Israel has a biblical and a moral right to exist.

 

Most orthodox Jews refute Israel and refuse to display the Israeli flag, because they do not recognize Israel as a true Jewish state ordained by God, but as a political extension of Modern Zionism founded by the atheist, Theodor Herzl. Herzl was a radicalized Hungarian born activist who later lived in Austria. His ideology became more radicalized and militant before his death. After Herzl's death, the Zionist movement grew world-wide, and they organized into a powerful political movement which used its influence to eventually push for an Israeli state. The movement tried unsuccessfully to push for a Jewish state before WWI and WW II but where refuted by almost everyone including conservative Jewish Rabbi's who noted that this was against God's Law, and that Zionists are driven by political and economic ambition rather than the Tora teachings and will use religion to continue to push and validate their racist and facist actions. 

 

What do Europeans get out of it, and why do we have the least power to talk about it?

 

Jacob scapegoats Esau with deception.

 

You speak of orthordox within that group that refute Israel, but that's only before moschiac. How are they much different if they still believe in a lot of the same supremacist beliefs, like owning the world, having 2600 slaves each, etc?

 

Where are there Europeans within any significant power trying to make a world for Europeans? We're not even allowed a country.

 

The wars are for "greatest ally", and they have the added bonus of making people in the Middle East resent westerners. Then we open up our nations for people that resent us because of wars that never even benefitted us, bringing the war to our doorstep. All because TPTB believe in undermining Edom.

Edited by EnigmaticWorld
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3 minutes ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

Then we open up our nations for people that resent us because of wars that never even benefitted us. All because TPTB believe in undermining Edom.


ok wow, this point here needs more attention definitely.

 

 

01 the-economist-2012-cover-depict-hamas-on-gliders - Copy.jpg

 

02 the-economist-2012-cover - Copy.jpg

Edited by shabbirss
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4 minutes ago, shabbirss said:


ok wow, this point here needs more attention definitely.

 

I don't deny what some western leaders have done to be fair. As a Brit, there's no doubt that people like Tony Blair's actions were terrible for the Middle East, but people like that have also been terrible for us.

Western leaders are definitely not saints, but the question for me is whether the current hatred for the western world is by design, in the sense that TBTB have a new golden calf in China. That might be why a lot of people in positions of power talk about moving towards the Chinese model, and some kind of western decline would fulfil the anti-Edom agenda.

 

The western world is more affected by woke politics, we are deindustrializing more because of the climate agenda, and our military isn't what it was, at least in Britain.

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4 hours ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

Western leaders are definitely not saints, but the question for me is whether the current hatred for the western world is by design, in the sense that TBTB have a new golden calf in China. That might be why a lot of people in positions of power talk about moving towards the Chinese model, and some kind of western decline would fulfil the anti-Edom agenda.

  

And given the shallow flip-flop nature of western democracy which only gives us a choice between two apparent sides with no real leadership offered to us as a country, I wonder how far up the brotherhood's hierarchy our political leaders really are. I agree about China being put on a pedestal in the last couple of decades, yet at the same time we get these stories about people spying for China and giving them all our new tech which they have the capacity to manufacture themselves, so China is also portrayed as an enemy in the new cold war. 

 

Does China have an interest in the middle east conflicts, and IsraelPalestine?  Maybe not directly as they can let the drama play out with the US and Russia as the puppet masters, China seems to be more interested in getting into Africa at the moment. 

Edited by Campion
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1 hour ago, Campion said:

  

And given the shallow flip-flop nature of western democracy which only gives us a choice between two apparent sides with no real leadership offered to us as a country, I wonder how far up the brotherhood's hierarchy our political leaders really are. I agree about China being put on a pedestal in the last couple of decades, yet at the same time we get these stories about people spying for China and giving them all our new tech which they have the capacity to manufacture themselves, so China is also portrayed as an enemy in the new cold war. 

 

Does China have an interest in the middle east conflicts, and IsraelPalestine?  Maybe not directly as they can let the drama play out with the US and Russia as the puppet masters, China seems to be more interested in getting into Africa at the moment. 

 

I don't think the blame should be put on China, not soley anyway. I don't even think it's fair to point at Russia too much either, even if Moscow still is the head of the comintern. I don't like people always blaming the West, but I should be careful because I don't want people thinking that I think the East is the problem.

 

I think the problem is not necessarily the West or the East, I think it's internationalism, but I believe that the internationalists want to pivot towards the East at some point.

 

As for China, there is a running joke about how Dems rarely criticize China, and how Republicans rarely criticize Russia. I think there's quite a bit of truth in that. I don't trust China at all, but I am suspicious of people that just point at "muh ChiComs". China sends out mixed messages in regards to Israel and Palestine, but if there is a war, I would expect them to take Russia and Iran's side. A rabbi has spoken about some three roosters prophecy though, where China will turn on Russia after the West and Russia fight it out.

 

I see China as the new golden calf for the elites because they're like a factory nation of worker drones, and they're easily controlled. This is surely why it's such a dog eat dog society out there. That's the irony really. Now that Xi Jinping needs to rally the people for war, he has to adopt some racial socialism in an attempt to put blood before economics, like Nazism. So you have China now banging the war drums and disseminating Han supremacy propaganda, because it just so happens that it's hard to sell normal economic socialism when you want people to fight.

 

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12 hours ago, shabbirss said:

i find it strange that you do not support these religious ideas of the Abrahamic faiths, but you choose a side.

care to explain? @pi3141

 

What's not supporting religion got to do with picking a side in a war?

 

But OK let's see, the Jews have been persecuted and almost forced into the situation they are in now.

 

Hamas, an Islamic based ideology, has stated the Protocols of Zion are real, brainwash their children to hate and will never accept peace until the Jews have been destroyed and Israel wiped off the Earth.

 

Hamas has openly attacked and brutalised civilians, even taking their bodies so the parents can't bury them.

 

They've kidnapped civilians to use as human shields, they are even using their own people as sacrificial pawns to their ideology.

 

I could go on, and on, and on. But hopefully you may realise that I see Hamas as the greater evil now.

 

Whereas before Oct 7th attack, I saw Israel as the occupiers and Palestinians as oppressed. 

 

Now I see Hamas as a lunatic, rabid, murdering ideology that is firmly rooted in hate and using Islam to justify it, because the Islamic scriptures DO in fact promote supremacist ideology, as well as slavery, prostitution, and that unbelievers can be sold or killed.

 

I don't see the Jews doing the same.

 

So I picked the side of non rabid, religiously twisted, murdering maniacs. 

 

Is that unreasonable to you?

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8 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Whereas before Oct 7th attack, I saw Israel as the occupiers and Palestinians as oppressed.  

 

However this war didn't start on 7/10 because Hamas has been firing missiles and sending fire balloons etc into Israel for years earlier. Acts of war surely?  IMO the war there has been ongoing for about 100 years on and off, on both sides, and this stage is just more violent and deadly than usual. 

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13 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

What's not supporting religion got to do with picking a side in a war?

 

But OK let's see, the Jews have been persecuted and almost forced into the situation they are in now.

 

Hamas, an Islamic based ideology, has stated the Protocols of Zion are real, brainwash their children to hate and will never accept peace until the Jews have been destroyed and Israel wiped off the Earth.

 

Hamas has openly attacked and brutalised civilians, even taking their bodies so the parents can't bury them.

 

They've kidnapped civilians to use as human shields, they are even using their own people as sacrificial pawns to their ideology.

 

I could go on, and on, and on. But hopefully you may realise that I see Hamas as the greater evil now.

 

Whereas before Oct 7th attack, I saw Israel as the occupiers and Palestinians as oppressed. 

 

Now I see Hamas as a lunatic, rabid, murdering ideology that is firmly rooted in hate and using Islam to justify it, because the Islamic scriptures DO in fact promote supremacist ideology, as well as slavery, prostitution, and that unbelievers can be sold or killed.

 

I don't see the Jews doing the same.

 

So I picked the side of non rabid, religiously twisted, murdering maniacs. 

 

Is that unreasonable to you?


its not an Islamic ideaology to terrorize civilians or anyone.
terrorism = oppression

many muslim palestinians are against hamas because of these ideas

there are rules of engagement in war. its soldiers vs soldiers - civilians,non combatants are not to be harmed or oppressed in any way.

Yvonne Ridley is an example of this, where she was captured by the Taliban during that war and treated according to the Islamic rules of war.
She ended up becoming a muslim after that.

 

"But OK let's see, the Jews have been persecuted and almost forced into the situation they are in now. "

are we talking about Jews now or Israelis? because isreal has Jews,Muslims and Christians in it
and many Jews are against the state of israel itself ehich is why they do not live there.

"because the Islamic scriptures DO in fact promote supremacist ideology, as well as slavery, prostitution, and that unbelievers can be sold or killed."
wherever islamic law ruled, people of all faiths lived side by side and prospered.
these specific systems,terms and ideas : supremacy, imperialism, racism are White supremacist inventions.
It doesn't make that much sense to say that religious systems are racist or supremist

so i ask proof of your claim?

 

"Now I see Hamas as a lunatic, rabid, murdering ideology that is firmly rooted in hate and using Islam to justify it"
Most muslims see this too. hamas with its extreme ideas of completely destroying israel is anti-islamic.
Jewish people are not "infidels" - they are people of faith as are Christian people.
for example : Infidels are the non-believers eg: atheists.


i do understand your point of view though, coming from a perspective of ignorance and media mind control.

the best solution IMO is that Jerusalem, the dome of the rock,al aqsa, all these holy sites need to be a Neutral Zone
so that people of all these faiths can have no claim or authority there. just the opportunity to go there
and pray / follow their religious rites freely without being oppressed by any state of any religious faction.
 

 

 

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19 hours ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

I don't think the blame should be put on China, not soley anyway. I don't even think it's fair to point at Russia too much either, even if Moscow still is the head of the comintern. I don't like people always blaming the West, but I should be careful because I don't want people thinking that I think the East is the problem.

 

I think the problem is not necessarily the West or the East, I think it's internationalism, but I believe that the internationalists want to pivot towards the East at some point.

 

As for China, there is a running joke about how Dems rarely criticize China, and how Republicans rarely criticize Russia. I think there's quite a bit of truth in that. I don't trust China at all, but I am suspicious of people that just point at "muh ChiComs". China sends out mixed messages in regards to Israel and Palestine, but if there is a war, I would expect them to take Russia and Iran's side. A rabbi has spoken about some three roosters prophecy though, where China will turn on Russia after the West and Russia fight it out.

 

I see China as the new golden calf for the elites because they're like a factory nation of worker drones, and they're easily controlled. This is surely why it's such a dog eat dog society out there. That's the irony really. Now that Xi Jinping needs to rally the people for war, he has to adopt some racial socialism in an attempt to put blood before economics, like Nazism. So you have China now banging the war drums and disseminating Han supremacy propaganda, because it just so happens that it's hard to sell normal economic socialism when you want people to fight.

 

 

i think its more like what dr shiva says, its "the swarm"

Dr SHIVA™ SHATTER THE SWARM How The Few Control the Many
 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Campion said:

However this war didn't start on 7/10 because Hamas has been firing missiles and sending fire balloons etc into Israel for years earlier. Acts of war surely?  IMO the war there has been ongoing for about 100 years on and off, on both sides, and this stage is just more violent and deadly than usual. 

 

No I think a bit different. 

 

There was little Jewish presence in Palestine before 1900's. It was the Russian persecution that forced Jews into Palestine. 

 

I remember seeing a YouTube video of a Jewish man playing chess with a Palestinian in public. The video stated Jews and Palestinians lived in peace.

 

Then WW2 happened and the Jews of Europe were forcibly sent to Israel and Hitler stole their wealth and they landed in Israel penniless. 

 

Then, the hostilities started.

 

It started because the Arabs from neighbouring countries invaded and started the war, when those nations decided Palestine should be free of Jews.

 

Since then, we've had ongoing hostilities with Israel eventually breaking peace treaties, humanitarian laws, international laws, waging atrocities. 

 

But Hamas, has enshrined in their Charter - their hatred for Jews and Israel, they believe the Protocols of Zion to be fact and it is their Holy duty to wage war against the Jews until Palestine is a Caliphate. 

 

It is also in the charter it is the duty of every Muslim to teach there children this doctrine because there can never be peace only an Islamic state of Palestine is acceptable. 

 

They do use the Qur'an to justify there views which include indiscriminate killing, kidnapping and desecration of civilians.

 

I'm cutting back on the rape allegations not because I don't believe it, I do. 

 

I posted, and then removed, a picture of a dead Jewish girl, half naked, being taken away on the back of a vehicle with Muslim soldiers, jubilant with their trophy.

 

I wonder, what do they intend to do with that body?

 

Give the girl a full Islamic burial and mourn for her for a week?

 

So I know what I believe, but I can't prove it, yet.

 

Hamas has gone over the line because they use fake propaganda mixed with religious scripture to justify an ideology of hate that produces a man that is inhuman and capable of atrocities under the misguided belief God has commanded him to do it.

 

That ideology holds women to be inferior and any man not a Muslim to be worthless and thus they can sold, killed, or wealth stolen from them as entirely justified by their religion.

 

Surah 33

Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful.

 

Slavery and prostitution enshrined in Islam, Hamas using Islam to justify killing, raping, kidnapping and desecration of innocents, behold, Islam, the religion of peace.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

 

No I think a bit different. 

 

There was little Jewish presence in Palestine before 1900's. It was the Russian persecution that forced Jews into Palestine. 

 

I remember seeing a YouTube video of a Jewish man playing chess with a Palestinian in public. The video stated Jews and Palestinians lived in peace.

 

Then WW2 happened and the Jews of Europe were forcibly sent to Israel and Hitler stole their wealth and they landed in Israel penniless. 

 

Then, the hostilities started.

 

It started because the Arabs from neighbouring countries invaded and started the war, when those nations decided Palestine should be free of Jews.

 

Since then, we've had ongoing hostilities with Israel eventually breaking peace treaties, humanitarian laws, international laws, waging atrocities. 

 

But Hamas, has enshrined in their Charter - their hatred for Jews and Israel, they believe the Protocols of Zion to be fact and it is their Holy duty to wage war against the Jews until Palestine is a Caliphate. 

 

It is also in the charter it is the duty of every Muslim to teach there children this doctrine because there can never be peace only an Islamic state of Palestine is acceptable. 

 

They do use the Qur'an to justify there views which include indiscriminate killing, kidnapping and desecration of civilians.

 

I'm cutting back on the rape allegations not because I don't believe it, I do. 

 

I posted, and then removed, a picture of a dead Jewish girl, half naked, being taken away on the back of a vehicle with Muslim soldiers, jubilant with their trophy.

 

I wonder, what do they intend to do with that body?

 

Give the girl a full Islamic burial and mourn for her for a week?

 

So I know what I believe, but I can't prove it, yet.

 

Hamas has gone over the line because they use fake propaganda mixed with religious scripture to justify an ideology of hate that produces a man that is inhuman and capable of atrocities under the misguided belief God has commanded him to do it.

 

That ideology holds women to be inferior and any man not a Muslim to be worthless and thus they can sold, killed, or wealth stolen from them as entirely justified by their religion.

 

Surah 33

Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful.

 

Slavery and prostitution enshrined in Islam, Hamas using Islam to justify killing, raping, kidnapping and desecration of innocents, behold, Islam, the religion of peace.

 

 

 

Surah An-Nur
(Chapter 24 : 33
 

And let those who do not have the means to marry keep themselves chaste until Allah enriches them out of His bounty. And if any of those ˹bondspeople˺ in your possession desires a contract ˹to buy their own freedom˺, make it possible for them, if you find goodness in them. And give them some of Allah’s wealth which He has granted you. Do not force your ˹slave˺ girls into prostitution for your own worldly gains while they wish to remain chaste. And if someone coerces them, then after such a coercion Allah is certainly All-Forgiving, Most Merciful ˹to them˺.


to them: mercy to them who were forced into prostitution
 

Edited by shabbirss
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39 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

 

No I think a bit different. 

 

There was little Jewish presence in Palestine before 1900's. It was the Russian persecution that forced Jews into Palestine. 

 

I remember seeing a YouTube video of a Jewish man playing chess with a Palestinian in public. The video stated Jews and Palestinians lived in peace.

 

Then WW2 happened and the Jews of Europe were forcibly sent to Israel and Hitler stole their wealth and they landed in Israel penniless. 

 

Then, the hostilities started.

 

It started because the Arabs from neighbouring countries invaded and started the war, when those nations decided Palestine should be free of Jews.

 

Since then, we've had ongoing hostilities with Israel eventually breaking peace treaties, humanitarian laws, international laws, waging atrocities. 

 

But Hamas, has enshrined in their Charter - their hatred for Jews and Israel, they believe the Protocols of Zion to be fact and it is their Holy duty to wage war against the Jews until Palestine is a Caliphate. 

 

It is also in the charter it is the duty of every Muslim to teach there children this doctrine because there can never be peace only an Islamic state of Palestine is acceptable. 

 

They do use the Qur'an to justify there views which include indiscriminate killing, kidnapping and desecration of civilians.

 

I'm cutting back on the rape allegations not because I don't believe it, I do. 

 

I posted, and then removed, a picture of a dead Jewish girl, half naked, being taken away on the back of a vehicle with Muslim soldiers, jubilant with their trophy.

 

I wonder, what do they intend to do with that body?

 

Give the girl a full Islamic burial and mourn for her for a week?

 

So I know what I believe, but I can't prove it, yet.

 

Hamas has gone over the line because they use fake propaganda mixed with religious scripture to justify an ideology of hate that produces a man that is inhuman and capable of atrocities under the misguided belief God has commanded him to do it.

 

That ideology holds women to be inferior and any man not a Muslim to be worthless and thus they can sold, killed, or wealth stolen from them as entirely justified by their religion.

 

Surah 33

Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful.

 

Slavery and prostitution enshrined in Islam, Hamas using Islam to justify killing, raping, kidnapping and desecration of innocents, behold, Islam, the religion of peace.

 

 

 

"I posted, and then removed, a picture of a dead Jewish girl, half naked, being taken away on the back of a vehicle with Muslim soldiers, jubilant with their trophy. "

these are not Muslim soldiers. these are hamas soldiers. their ideas,actions are anti islam

 

indeed, ww2 was when everything changed.
The Islamic Caliphate at the time based in Turkey known as the Ottoman Caliphate / Khilafah , ruled over 72 Nations.
these lands were under Ottoman - Turkish (Islamic Caliphate) rule at those times
- there was Peace
- Jews,Christians and Muslims lived in harmony

then came ww2 and the downfall of the Islamic Caliphate, with british spies giving arab people ideas of Nationalism,
co-ercing them into fighting against the Ottoman Islamic-Caliphate.

 

british spies were in egypt,palestine,greater arabia,etc and knew full well that a state of israel was going to be established.

while knowing that a state of israel was in the works, british spies gave the palestinian people ideas of nationalism
and ideas of going against the Islamic , Caliphate rule.
without the caliphate to back them ,palestine would be easy pickings, you see?
and then everything went to shit.


this resulted in the arabs being given the land of "saudia arabia" as a prize for their help in overthrowing the Caliphate.
in fact, it is really "Saud's" Arabia - the "saud" family / bloodline being the one the british rewarded for their help.

note, the Caliphate does not include bloodlines/royalty/kings and queens as rulers. it is a system of MERITOCRACY.
if you look at saud's arabia, the symbols around authority buildings,their police force,etc are
connected to the antichrist-dajjal symbolism of the one eye. there are also stories about the royals engaging in blood drinking rituals
and weird shit.

long story short:
religious islamic rule kept everything balanced over there.
arab nationalism backed by the british empire fucked everything up
and here we are today

 

Edited by shabbirss
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15 hours ago, pi3141 said:

No I think a bit different. 

 

There was little Jewish presence in Palestine before 1900's. It was the Russian persecution that forced Jews into Palestine. 

 

I remember seeing a YouTube video of a Jewish man playing chess with a Palestinian in public. The video stated Jews and Palestinians lived in peace.

 

Then WW2 happened and the Jews of Europe were forcibly sent to Israel and Hitler stole their wealth and they landed in Israel penniless. 

 

Then, the hostilities started.

 

There may have been peace before WW1, during the Ottoman empire but at that time Jews were a small minority.  I think the hostilities started in the 1920s during the UN mandate, before WW2, which is when I'm suggesting this war started although others may call it a terrorist conflict at that point and not an actual war until 1948. But that's semantics imo.   

 

https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/the-middle-east-1917-to-1973/palestine-1918-to-1948/  

 

15 hours ago, shabbirss said:

long story short:
religious islamic rule kept everything balanced over there.
arab nationalism backed by the british empire fucked everything up
and here we are today

 

Not really "balanced", it was Islamic supremacy and imperialism just like we had Christian supremacy in Europe. But that's a consequence of the Christian-Islamic dialectic that's been imposed on us since the dark ages. 

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On 4/26/2024 at 7:59 PM, X15 said:

In conclusion, Israel is nothing more than a satellite for U.S and UK interests in the Middle East with log-term plans for military expansion and control over oil and gas resources, economic expansion into new markets, and control over shipping lanes from the Mediterranean Sea into the Indian Sea. Simply, Israel serves as the excuse for Western meddling, occupation, and ongoing influence in the region, while using the excuse that Israel has a biblical and a moral right to exist.

Exactly - enabled by the global tentacles of the Kazarian Mafia.

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3 hours ago, Campion said:

 

There may have been peace before WW1, during the Ottoman empire but at that time Jews were a small minority.  I think the hostilities started in the 1920s during the UN mandate, before WW2, which is when I'm suggesting this war started although others may call it a terrorist conflict at that point and not an actual war until 1948. But that's semantics imo.   

 

https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/the-middle-east-1917-to-1973/palestine-1918-to-1948/  

 

 

Not really "balanced", it was Islamic supremacy and imperialism just like we had Christian supremacy in Europe. But that's a consequence of the Christian-Islamic dialectic that's been imposed on us since the dark ages. 

 

https://books.openedition.org/ceup/2139?lang=en

In a section of his Consolaçam, Samuel Usque describes the Ottoman Empire* as the great consolation of the Jews because there the gates of free-dom are open and Judaism can be freely practiced.1 Life there is said to restore the human character. Here, the Jew can return to his ancient practices, abandoning the religion that has been forced upon him by those among whom he has wandered. In that section of his work, Usque refers to the “double life” the conversos have to lead in Christian Europe. He emphasizes the toll it takes on their conscience. Usque’s claim expresses the consensus of the Jews and conversos who have chosen the Ottoman Empire as their new home.2

Yet the Ottoman Empire did not differ principally from other countries because, as everywhere, the Jewish presence was tolerated as an act of magnanimity by the ruler; however, in the Ottoman Empire, Jews were accorded a special status. Spanish and Portuguese Jews could revive a consciousness lost because of the Expulsion, and the social fabric of a vanished Iberian life was reconstituted under relatively felicitous circumstances.

Most important, in the sixteenth century, the Ottoman Empire was one of the most advanced and best-administered states in the world, and modern in meritocracy and tolerance. Each social class and all sources of wealth were regarded as obliged to preserve and promote the ruler; hence all types of economic activities were regulated by the state alone.3

The cities were multi-ethnic. Originally the leadership was non-Muslim, and not Ottoman. While the former soon changed, many important posts remained filled by Balkan Slavs who had converted to Islam. In the Arabic speaking lands, the Ottoman conquest did not much change the daily life of the population. They merely exchanged one Muslim power for another.

However, for the Jews, newly arriving from different parts of Europe, the change in lifestyle was monumental. Socially, they were less integrated than their local co-religionists, although earlier those too had been expelled from their homes and had undergone forced transfers.

As in most European countries, in the Ottoman Empire capital was created by commerce, handicrafts, and agriculture. The Jews, as members of the rising merchant class, could fit well into the ideals of Istanbul society, where they were supported by the sultan, especially during Grand Vizir Rustam’s and Sīnan Pasha’s time, who, as well as his advisors, promoted the case of Jewish merchants.4 Their privileged position brought some local hostility against them; the guilds had viewed Jews as their enemy, but competition for business cut through all religions. In Bursa, Italian agents as well as Jewish traders waited eagerly for the caravans and competed aggressively for the goods arriving from Persia...

 

---

 

while witnessing the majesty and tolerance, enjoying the comforts of life in the Ottoman Empire, envy grew in the heart of Theodor Herzl - the founder of Zionism.
-Theoder Herzl himself was an ATHEIST and did not believe in a God the way Jewish people did.
-most Orthodox Jews did not agree to his idea of Zionism and a new state of israel.

-with the help of Edmond Rothschild and the British Empire, the PR Campaign and various political intrigue for Zionism began in order to grow Herzl's movement.


Long story short:

instead of being grateful for the accomodation in Ottoman Lands, Herzl and his friends backstabbed the Ottoman Empire for helping the Jewish people.

 

 

ottoman empire jews.png

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2 hours ago, shabbirss said:

Long story short:

instead of being grateful for the accomodation in Ottoman Lands, Herzl and his friends backstabbed the Ottoman Empire for helping the Jewish people.

 

Thanks Shabbirss.  I was wondering too why the Ottomans decided to join the first world war, which must have been a big risk for them. If they had decided to stay neutral instead then who knows, if the empire had survived the history of the 20th C middle east would have been very different. In my search for answers two points stand out. First the other brotherhood powers of France, Britain and Russia were having a power struggle for control and the German axis might have looked like a better option to ally with. Secondly it appears the Ottomans were in a lot of debt from the 2nd half of the 19th century, owning money to the international banking cartels, and since they defaulted on their debt in 1875, they also relied on local bankers such as the Galata bankers, who included Greek and Jewish money changers and lenders.  If the Axis powers had won the war then presumably they would have written off any debts owed to the western banks. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_public_debt 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Public_Debt_Administration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_in_Turkey 

https://www.thecollector.com/ottoman-empire-debt-european-powers/ 

http://turkeyswar.com/economy/ottoman-debt/ 

https://www.dailysabah.com/feature/2015/12/25/the-galata-bankers-financing-ottoman-state  

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Posted (edited)
On 4/28/2024 at 6:09 PM, shabbirss said:

long story short:
religious islamic rule kept everything balanced over there.
arab nationalism backed by the british empire fucked everything up
and here we are today

 

 

There are many things in the history of my country that I am not proud about. Are involvement in suppression and hegemony of lands and wealth over the years has bought much conflict. 

 

I offer this as my explanation, the reasons given in this book are what truly drive our worlds affairs, along with religion.

 

 

War Is a Racket

 

War Is a Racket is a speech and a 1935 short book by Smedley D. Butler, a retired United States Marine Corps Major General and two-time Medal of Honor recipient.[2] Based on his career military experience, Butler discusses how business interests commercially benefit from warfare. He had been appointed commanding officer of the Gendarmerie during the 1915–1934 United States occupation of Haiti.

 

In War Is a Racket, Butler points to a variety of examples, mostly from World War I, where industrialists, whose operations were subsidized by public funding, were able to generate substantial profits, making money from mass human suffering.

 

The work is divided into five chapters:

War is a racket
Who makes the profits?
Who pays the bills?
How to smash this racket!
To hell with war!


It contains this summary:

War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

 

Butler confesses that during his decades of service in the United States Marine Corps:

 

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

 

Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

 

 

We know the stupid involvement in Iraq was about oil, the first World War was about oil. 

 

Its all about profits and certain governments using military might to control certain areas where they have no legitimate right to control, Kuwait for example.

 

 

 

Edited by pi3141
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20 hours ago, Campion said:

I think the hostilities started in the 1920s during the UN mandate, before WW2, which is when I'm suggesting this war started although others may call it a terrorist conflict at that point and not an actual war until 1948. 

 

Yes, I skirted around that because to say it started with the 1920 uprising that the British put down, would be pointing the finger at the Palestinians for starting the hostilities.

 

I didn't want to do that.

 

But if you like we can call it that way.

 

Palestinian's started the war in 1920's, then again in 1936 with the Arab revolt and then again in 1946 with the Arab league and then again in 1960s 

 

So yeah, the Palestinians and the Arab nations surrounding Israel started these hostilities and refuse peace deals.

 

Alrighty then.

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2 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

Yes, I skirted around that because to say it started with the 1920 uprising that the British put down, would be pointing the finger at the Palestinians for starting the hostilities.

 

I didn't want to do that.

 

But if you like we can call it that way.

 

Palestinian's started the war in 1920's, then again in 1936 with the Arab revolt and then again in 1946 with the Arab league and then again in 1960s 

 

So yeah, the Palestinians and the Arab nations surrounding Israel started these hostilities and refuse peace deals.

 

Alrighty then.

Because the land has been taken illegally by the Israeli government.

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4 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Yes, I skirted around that because to say it started with the 1920 uprising that the British put down, would be pointing the finger at the Palestinians for starting the hostilities.

 

I didn't want to do that.

 

But if you like we can call it that way.

 

Palestinian's started the war in 1920's, then again in 1936 with the Arab revolt and then again in 1946 with the Arab league and then again in 1960s 

 

So yeah, the Palestinians and the Arab nations surrounding Israel started these hostilities and refuse peace deals.

 

Alrighty then.

 

I'm not blaming it all on Palestinians and Arabs, after all they're just trying to defend their land that's been carved up and occupied by outsiders since the end of WW1.  It's effectively the same conflict that's been going on all this time.   Would we be brave enough to do the same for our land if it was invaded?  

 

Well you could say it's been occupied by outsiders for a lot longer than that, when was Palestine last a free independent country? However they weren't exactly uprising against the Ottoman occupation as far as I know. 

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13 hours ago, Bombadil said:

Because the land has been taken illegally by the Israeli government.

 

Not in 1900 when the Pogroms of Russia forced them as refugees to Palestine. 

 

As refugees they stole nothing but looked for help. Should we shoot those arriving on the boat to our shore as invaders.?

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