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Israel: To Support, Or Not


pi3141

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MOD NOTE: I appreciate how much there is to discuss on the subject of Israel. Especially with the current world events taking place. What I hope you can all appreciate, even if you disagree, is the difficulty in determining by moderators what is allowed to be discussed. Or maybe more in how to word posts in a way that is acceptable. I spent a few hours going through various legal documents that give definitions of anti semitic actions. In fairness, with my limited legal understanding, it seems that it is virtually impossible to discuss anything without potentially running afoul of one thing or another. The Forum rules are clear on what is acceptable but I understand that many things can be argued not to be breaking these rules. It's not easy, but considering the situation if we ignore too much, we have to err on the side of caution.

 

One of my best suggestions would be not to group everyone the same. By stating "The Jews" it implies everyone. This is clearly not the case. I personally know Jewish people who despise what goes on in their name. This can be said for any subject on the Forum.

 

Hope you all understand.

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@pi3141

if israel had launched a pre emptive strike with minimal civilian casualties (as its hi tech military is capable of) and taken out hamas, i would support it and appreciate it because for the Palestinian cause, hamas is a great thorn in it's side by constantly disrupting the Palestinian Authority,
terrorizing the people of gaza and establishing its own authority over them which undermines Palestine and terrorizing israeli civilians to keep this conflict ongoing.

 

-Hamas attacked Yasser Arafat's group when they agreed to a 2 state solution

 

Hamas is an Opponent to the Palestinian Authority - The Palestine State
Hamas does not want a 2 state solution.

 

I suspect that hamas is connected to the israeli govt and being used for expanding israel's borders.
-making attacks on israel randomly to keep the war ongoing

 

Peace Talks

why would hamas attack israel when peace talks were happening? it would mean Peace for Palestine, Peace for Gaza.
do they not want Peace for their own people?

 

Peace means no war, no fighting, no possibility for any side to expand its territory
War, on the other hand brings opportunity to expand your borders and influence
 

I support the idea that all the people of Israel must live in peace

I support the idea that all the people of Gaza and Palestine must live in peace


to make this whole scenario about Jews is unfair, because all Jewish people do not follow the Zionist ideaologies and policies

the people in power in the govt of israel dont even look jewish,
they dont dress as the religious jewish people do
(as compared to rulers in Muslim countries, African countries,etc who dress according their faith and culture they represent) ,
so are they truly representing the Jewish faith and Jewish people?

 

I still believe that the Jewish people are being played by the Zionist regime for its expansionist goals in the region

against the Palestinian people. - notice how the current leadership of israel opposes the 2 state solution just as hamas opposes the 2 state solution

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514

 

 

 

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Edited by shabbirss
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3 hours ago, shabbirss said:

... the people in power in the govt of israel dont even look jewish,

 

... so are they truly representing the Jewish faith and Jewish people?

 

I still believe that the Jewish people are being played by the Zionist regime for its expansionist goals in the region ...

  

What do you think of the idea that there's a hidden hand behind the most powerful governments (not just Israel of course) linked to the secret society network?  

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5 hours ago, Campion said:

  

What do you think of the idea that there's a hidden hand behind the most powerful governments (not just Israel of course) linked to the secret society network?  

 

very possible, i mean thats what David icke talks about mainly, and theres also Dr Shiva who describes this kind of network as "the swarm" in his shatter the swarm video
 

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“Netanyahu deliberately funded Hamas” says: Ehud Barak former Prime Minister of Israel

“We did everything to make sure Hamas would continue controlling Gaza”

Says: Ami Ayalon former head of Israel Secret Service “

He fed the beast and it exploded in our face” Says: Yehuda Shaul former IDF Commander

 

 

 

 

 

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Can I make a suggestion that this thread is renamed to 'Do You Support Israel?.'

 

Being a popular thread, and therefore appearing almost every day in the Activity list, I believe it may give the wrong impression to vistors. Let's face it, most of us posting in this thread DO NOT support Israel, so the title is very misleading and sets the wrong tone for forum visitors.

 

So, rather than me opening a conflicting thread entitled 'I support Palestine,' or, 'I support Iran,' to balance things out, I think it would be better to simply change the title, or open a parallel thread entitled either 'Do you support Israel,' or 'I do not support Israel.' 

 

What does everyone think?

 

 

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  • Anti Facts Sir changed the title to Israel: To Support, Or Not
2 hours ago, webtrekker said:

Can I make a suggestion that this thread is renamed to 'Do You Support Israel?.'

 

Being a popular thread, and therefore appearing almost every day in the Activity list, I believe it may give the wrong impression to vistors. Let's face it, most of us posting in this thread DO NOT support Israel, so the title is very misleading and sets the wrong tone for forum visitors.

 

So, rather than me opening a conflicting thread entitled 'I support Palestine,' or, 'I support Iran,' to balance things out, I think it would be better to simply change the title, or open a parallel thread entitled either 'Do you support Israel,' or 'I do not support Israel.' 

 

What does everyone think?

 

 

 

Also a thread  I Don't Support Any Side  (I'm On My Side - The Side Decency and Sanity).

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2 hours ago, Athenry04 said:

I'm amazed anyone could support Israel.

 

When talking about any country's shortcomings, I think it's important to distinguish between the ordinary people, the ruling elite and the hidden hand.  Countries are far less democratic than is made out, even when they have proportional voting. 

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I wouldn't respond unless it's at the top already.

 

If this thread belonged anywhere it would be "War and Terror" or "Israel".

 

Obviously he won't be winning any converts here.

As far as I'm concerned it's just another psyop, to fuck with people's heads.

 

 

 

clownentertainment.jpeg

Edited by novymir
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5 hours ago, Orange Alert said:

And here of all places.  Support of violence really should not be here.

 

That works both ways.

 

Funny how some forget that, or think it only applies to their point of view when they choose and think it gives them an intellectual superiority. 

 

Resist not evil.

 

That teaching is universal.

 

But sometimes, we have to be human.

 

We are invested in this world.

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1 hour ago, pi3141 said:

 

'Apart' Lol.

LOL?

 

Wow, I'm impressed, you picked up a grammatical error...as If it matters...the point is obvious...except to those that are bound to "the letter of the law". and are detached from The Spirit...only they would point it out...(and think they've picked out a flaw that invalidates the point).

I knew it was there.

 

 

 

 

Withdrawal of "investment in this world" is the message of Christ-Truth. Investment in this world is anti-Christ and under the spell of deceit.

 

 

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 19:21


"“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in." Matthew 23: 13

 

 

Trauma-based mind control and deceit is their modus-operandi.

 

 

 

 

 


 

Edited by novymir
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1 hour ago, shabbirss said:

no idea the calligraphy is too complicated for me
 

 

Oh OK.

 

When I do Google image search it throws up a lot of references to 'Jihad' but I can't find a proper exact  translation.

 

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So I know the flag is a Jihadist flag, but I would like absolute confirmation.  Specifically of the text.

 

For those that don't know.

 

Here's what Wiki says - 

 

The jihadist flag is a flag commonly used by various Islamist and fundamentalist movements as a symbol of jihad. It usually consists of the Black Standard with a white text of the Shahada (Islamic declaration of faith) emblazoned across it in calligraphy style writing. Its usage was widely adopted by Islamist groups and jihadists during the 1990s and early 2000s.[1][2]

 

Link - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihadist_flag#:~:text=It usually consists of the,the 1990s and early 2000s.&text=Organizations which have used such,al-Qaeda

 

 

The Black Standard

 

The Black Banner or Black Standard (Arabic: الراية السوداء, romanized: ar-rāyat as-sawdāʾ, also known as راية العقاب (rāyat al-ʿuqāb, "banner of the eagle" or simply as ‏الراية‎, ar-rāyah, "the banner") is one of the flags flown by the Islamic prophet Muhammad according to Muslim tradition. It was historically used by Abu Muslim in his uprising leading to the Abbasid Revolution in 747 and is therefore associated with the Abbasid Caliphate in particular. It is also a symbol in Islamic eschatology (heralding the advent of the Mahdi) though this tradition is weak according to hadithic standards.[1]

 

Link - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Standard

 

 

I'm just wondering, is the protestor calling for Holy War in Israel, or is he just calling for Holy War in general?

 

Meaning Holy War everywhere.

 

Holy War in UK.

 

 

Jihad

 

Jihad (/dʒɪˈhɑːd/; Arabic: جِهَاد, romanized: jihād [dʒiˈhaːd]) is an Arabic word which literally means "striving" or "struggling", especially with a praiseworthy aim.[1][2][3][4] In an Islamic context, it can refer to almost any effort to make personal and social life conform with God's guidance, such as struggle against one's evil inclinations, proselytizing, or efforts toward the moral betterment of the Muslim community (Ummah),[1][2][5][6] though it is most frequently associated with armed conflict.[4][7]

 

In classical Islamic law (sharia), the term refers to armed struggle against unbelievers,[2][3] while modernist Islamic scholars generally equate military jihad with defensive warfare.[8][9] In Sufi circles, spiritual and moral jihad has been traditionally emphasized under the name of greater jihad.[5][10][3] The term has gained additional attention in recent decades through its use by various insurgent Islamic extremist, militant Islamist, and terrorist individuals and organizations whose ideology is based on the Islamic notion of jihad.[5][7][11][12]

 

The Historian and Jurist Ibn Khaldun explains how Islamic concept of Jihad was unqiue among all other religions:[81]

 

In the Muslim community, the holy war [Jihad] is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the [Muslim] mission and [the obligation to] convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force. 

 

Link - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

 

 

It is concerning, because as a non Muslim I am considered a non believer.

 

It seems Britain is thus very tolerant of other people's beliefs to allow protestors to openly call for armed conflict against the country they reside in.

 

I just wonder, if i went to a Muslim country and tried to start a religious war or convert Muslims to Christianity or even Buddhism, would it be allowed or would I be imprisoned, deported or worse?

 

The Black Standard signifies the return of the Mahdi, so I assume this protestor thinks we are in 'End Times' that judgement is near and the Muslims need to rise up and strike down the infidels. 

 

Convert or die, no more tax.

 

No more Christians or Jews.

 

No more Pigs or Dogs. 

 

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The black flag traces its roots to prophetic times. According to hadith, it was the battle flag of the Prophet Muhammad and was carried into battle by many of his companions. The image of the black flag has been used as a symbol of religious revolt and engagement in battle (i.e., jihad).

 

Link - https://ctc.westpoint.edu/militant-imagery-project/0082/

 

 

Hadith of black flags

 

The hadith of black flags (Arabic: أحاديث الرايات السود) is a motif featured in Islamic apocalyptics, about people carrying black banners. These hadith were used by some to justify following the Abbasid Revolution.[1][2] Many Islamist and some jihadistic groups identify themselves with black banners bearing a white shahada.[3]

 

Jihadism

Modern Jihadist organizations such as Al-Qaeda and ISIL also use black flags.[7]

 

Justin O'Shea characterizes this hadith as "narrated by Abu Hurayrah but of questionable origin,"[3] and cites Will McCants' description of a "mythology" in which one sign of the End Times is that a Shia army with yellow flags will arise to fight the (Sunni) black flags in Syria — a mythology promoted and exploited by ISIS.[3]

 

 

Screenshot_20240420_195139_Samsung Internet.jpg

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3 hours ago, pi3141 said:

It is concerning, because as a non Muslim I am considered a non believer.

 

What consists of 'non-believers' is a bit of a mixed bag because in some cases Jews and Christians were spared the 'convert or die' choice because they were people of the book. They were still second class citizens in the Muslim empires though. However it didn't stop Muslim imperialists from invading Europe getting as far as Spain and the gates of Vienna. That seems to be conveniently forgotten by the left and liberals who are happy to demonise Western European empires. 

 

3 hours ago, pi3141 said:

It seems Britain is thus very tolerant of other people's beliefs to allow protestors to openly call for armed conflict against the country they reside in.

  

Yup, although the definition of Jihad as including both armed struggle and moral/spiritual development gives them enough ambiguity to cover themselves.  The left/liberals do have a blind spot there, also regarding the whole feminist agenda there's an Islamic privilege compared with white weserners. It's a two-way deal though because Muslims largely vote Labour and aren't self-deprecating and demoralised like the English so won't take the criticism.  It'll be interesting to see what happens when Muslims become a large enough population here to not need the Labour party any more, or the left in general. Who's using who then? 

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14 hours ago, Campion said:

What consists of 'non-believers' is a bit of a mixed bag because in some cases Jews and Christians were spared the 'convert or die' choice because they were people of the book. They were still second class citizens in the Muslim empires though. However it didn't stop Muslim imperialists from invading Europe getting as far as Spain and the gates of Vienna. That seems to be conveniently forgotten by the left and liberals who are happy to demonise Western European empires. 

 

  

Yup, although the definition of Jihad as including both armed struggle and moral/spiritual development gives them enough ambiguity to cover themselves.  The left/liberals do have a blind spot there, also regarding the whole feminist agenda there's an Islamic privilege compared with white weserners. It's a two-way deal though because Muslims largely vote Labour and aren't self-deprecating and demoralised like the English so won't take the criticism.  It'll be interesting to see what happens when Muslims become a large enough population here to not need the Labour party any more, or the left in general. Who's using who then? 

 

While Jihad can be interpreted as a spiritual struggle, and is by most moderate Muslims, the black background of the flag's displayed are symbolic of Mohammed's (PBUH) battle and are used to signify Muslim end times and the return of the Mahdi.

 

When the Mahdi returns we are in Islamic 'End Times'

 

In the Muslim end times, the Muslim's are required to wage a war, of force, against the unbeliever's and the Pigs and the Dog's (Christian's and Jew's)

 

The religious tax allowing 'people of the book' to worship as they choose will be removed and the choice will be convert or die.

 

This is all in Islam. If your not aware of it, it might be an idea to have a read up.

 

These black background flags, with a quote from Shaddah, are used to denote the imminent return of the Mahdi and as such, the beginnings of end times.

 

Its worth reading up what that means to you.

 

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Posted (edited)

Of course that banner may translate as -

 

'Merry Xmas to all the Christians, lets live in peace'

 

And the protestor is using a mask and sunglasses to shield his identity from fellow Muslim's.

 

Maybe the Muslim men are now adopting the Hijab in the name of equality between the sexes, and to cover their own modesty, and that would explain why the protestor is hiding his identity.

 

 

image.jpeg.84d87ac4b37e61794f0dc5d0fb56c704.jpeg

 

Edited by pi3141
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