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This is weird. Anyone else experienced this?


Phil26

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I have observed sone weird reactions from others when I have been reading David Icke's books. I don't mean they see me reading and they react I mean they don't know and I don't talk to them about Icke or similar subjects.

 

Let me explain. Also keep in mind the information in The Trap where the simulation knew what David Icke was doing when he was alone and then fed that information to a medium (who was presumably  unaware it was the AI influencing them) to try and influence David.

 

Here's one example. I was starting to read 'The Dream' (I did not mention it to anyone and I was alone when reading it. It is on a device, so there's no book lying around, only I can access that particular device) and suddenly my flatmate  goes into a fit of rage. Literally starts shouting, screaming and saying vicious nasty bs at me for no reason. They were perfectly calm and happy before this. Then over the next few days on the days I was reading Icke they would do the same thing but not on the days I wasn't reading Icke. If I had been reading Icke and they were around (but not in the same room) they would find an excuse to shout and rage and if they were out when I was reading Icke they would suddenly come back early and start raging about nothing in particular. Whenever I was planning to sit down to read alone they would start arguing to waste my time. If I tried to walk away they would scream and shout obscenity at me. After a while at least two people (who don't know each other) have said the same thing to me out of the blue in the middle of raging at me about nothing, they suddenly stop, stare me down and said, in an accusatory tone while glaring at me, "you're reading THAT Icke aren't you?".I mean where did that come from, why did they ask me and why imply that I shouldn't be reading Icke? Seriously wtf. You should know that I stayed calm during all of this, tried to resolve the things they brought up, even though they were random and made no sense. At no time did I feed the argument. These people, and others went from 0 to 100 rage but only when I was reading Icke's books, but they could not have known I was reading him and why would it bother them?

 

There are other examples of people phoning, texting and emailing me and getting angry for no reason but only at times when I'm reading Icke. And I only just joined this forum and since I have been discussing Icke here I'm getting more aggression from people IRL generally. Family members who were fine suddenly have issues with me about nothing in particular about things that make no sense. This is particularly when I am actually posting here, then they suddenly contact me while they are angry for nothing, or after I have just have posted here. Weirdly these people act like nothing has happened when I talk to them another time.

 

After this happened it reminded.me the same thing happened when I read The Trap some time ago and other Icke books. 

 

I know some might be skeptical about this but trust me this is too coincidental to be chance. There is more but this is quite a long post already. Maybe I'll discuss more if anyone else has experienced this.

 

Maybe it's all just coincidence, but it's too weird and way above chance to ignore. Looking to see what others think.

 

As a footnote just as I started to post at the forum this afternoon my flatmate has gone into a rage over the flavour of shop premade packaged soup (which I had nothing to do with) and many other unrelated things that apparently are fury worthy! 🙄 And that they must shout at me about for hours.

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Extraordinary and irrational behaviours, good you kept calm, you can't let Yah-hoo's or emotionally disturbed people rush you off the rails or grease and crease you up by them trying to inculcate you in their baffling shouting fits, but somehow predetermined rage as it seems.

 

So horrible, especially when your family seems also to be influenced by whatever this coincidence generator is, and I guess in much the same way, they react all weird... Especially weird to know that they go on after like nothing happened. 🥴🤔😧😒

 

Try to stay like the look of this smiley, unperturbed...😌

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32 minutes ago, Certified Green of Heart said:

Extraordinary and irrational behaviours, good you kept calm, you can't let Yah-hoo's or emotionally disturbed people rush you off the rails or grease and crease you up by them trying to inculcate you in their baffling shouting fits, but somehow predetermined rage as it seems.

 

So horrible, especially when your family seems also to be influenced by whatever this coincidence generator is, and I guess in much the same way, they react all weird... Especially weird to know that they go on after like nothing happened. 🥴🤔😧😒

 

Try to stay like the look of this smiley, unperturbed...😌

It is becoming easier over time to see it for what it is. I always stay calm and just watch what is going on. I suspect they want a fight or flight response out of me, but that's just not me.

It's been sad seeing some people influenced the way they have allowed themselves to be but that is life.

Thanks for the advice and emoji. 😀

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It's the ego. The larger ego knows when someone is reducing allegiance to it or accessing things that could lead to that, the little egos are then triggered to shut that down and get their target operating with ego again. It's like a wavelength thing, the ego's or The Divine wavelength.

Basically don't take it personally, they're unconscious of how they're being used.

 

Thats what The Matrix movie is really about.(humans "morphing into agents), I was talking about it here before D.I. wrote his 2 latest books.

Also about the "karma-reincarnation" scam.  Others had been exposing it as far back as 2008, when I first learned of it.

 

I've been dealing with this for 15 years. 

And I've posted multiple times about it.

 

Here's an illustration:

 

 

 

I'm slightly suspicious of D.I. sometimes.

 

 

Edited by novymir
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56 minutes ago, novymir said:

It's the ego. The larger ego knows when someone is reducing allegiance to it or accessing things that could lead to that, the little egos are then triggered to shut that down and get their target operating with ego again. It's like a wavelength thing, the ego's or The Divine wavelength.

Basically don't take it personally, they're unconscious of how they're being used.

 

Thats what The Matrix movie is really about.(humans "morphing into agents), I was talking about it here before D.I. wrote his 2 latest books.

Also about the "karma-reincarnation" scam.  Others had been exposing it as far back as 2008, when I first learned of it.

 

I've been dealing with this for 15 years. 

And I've posted multiple times about it.

 

Here's an illustration:

 

 

 

I'm slightly suspicious of D.I. sometimes.

 

 

I knew about the AI aspects that David Icke writes about before reading his latest books, but you yourself keep talking about all of this information coming from a great source so why be suspicious of Icke for knowing something you know? 

 

Not sure what you mean about ego as the way you described it seems more akin to a collective consciousness, or are you talking about a collective ego or of consciousness?

 

The Matrix idea only says it's within the Matrix, so they wouldn't have that problem outside of the Matrix, but they would still be part of infinite consciousness outside the Matrix. So then what is it within the simulation causing the problem, including what Icke talks about trying to influence him in his experiences that he discussed in The Trap.

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35 minutes ago, Phil26 said:

I knew about the AI aspects that David Icke writes about before reading his latest books, but you yourself keep talking about all of this information coming from a great source so why be suspicious of Icke for knowing something you know? 

 

Not sure what you mean about ego as the way you described it seems more akin to a collective consciousness, or are you talking about a collective ego or of consciousness?

 

The Matrix idea only says it's within the Matrix, so they wouldn't have that problem outside of the Matrix, but they would still be part of infinite consciousness outside the Matrix. So then what is it within the simulation causing the problem, including what Icke talks about trying to influence him in his experiences that he discussed in The Trap.

As I said though, I'm only sometimes slightly suspicious...I don't really trust anything/anyone except what could be called inner intuition tuned in to Truth--The Spirit of Truth.

 

They didn't actually leave The Matrix, they were just operating in a different layer or level.

 

The Real World is anything but a devastated wasteland.

 

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10 minutes ago, novymir said:

As I said though, I'm only sometimes slightly suspicious...I don't really trust anything/anyone except what could be called inner intuition tuned in to Truth--The Spirit of Truth.

 

They didn't actually leave The Matrix, they were just operating in a different layer or level.

 

The Real World is anything but a devastated wasteland.

 

No matter how much I disagree with you I would agree that we all need to ultimately trust our inner intuition above all else. We just need to make sure that isn't being interfered with or influenced. So yes ultimately you should listen to yourself.

 

Could you define what you mean by the "Real World"? And what your vision of it is, context etc.

 

Also, Neo did leave The Matrix as defined by the film The Matrix, which was the simulation he was unplugged from. So not sure why you think they didn't leave it.

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16 minutes ago, Phil26 said:

No matter how much I disagree with you I would agree that we all need to ultimately trust our inner intuition above all else. We just need to make sure that isn't being interfered with or influenced. So yes ultimately you should listen to yourself.

 

Could you define what you mean by the "Real World"? And what your vision of it is, context etc.

 

Also, Neo did leave The Matrix as defined by the film The Matrix, which was the simulation he was unplugged from. So not sure why you think they didn't leave it.

I know but the film isn't and can't be a flawless expression of truth here. It comes through enough though.

 

David Icke has talked about "Prime Reality"= The Real World, it's also called "Heaven" or "Nirvana", WHATEVER INFINITE LOVE offers----I ACCEPT IT AS IT IS. (this "world" ain't it!).

It's given me the green light. The door has been opened, all I gotta do is step through. I've procrastinated but that's going to end sooner rather than later.

 

I don't really "envision" it, a clue is that it is the opposite of this illusury thing, it is my True and Natural State of Being(earthly/human isn't). I won't settle for anything less.

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Phil26 said:

we all need to ultimately trust our inner intuition above all else. We just need to make sure that isn't being interfered with or influenced.

 

If you don't know, if you are vibraing at fear level, then you will be interfered compared to vibrating at LOVE, truth level and you are wholly.

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8 hours ago, DaleP said:

 

If you don't know, if you are vibraing at fear level, then you will be interfered compared to vibrating at LOVE, truth level and you are wholly.

You can be feeling.love and be influenced and interfered with! Fear can make people see the truth.

 

It depends on many factors. A lot of people mistake other emotions for love, and they often don't understand fear either. There is good or bad fear for example, and love, even true love, sometimes especially true love, can be manipulated and used. It's not as simple as one or the other, good vs bad.

 

Look at the example of children. They are mostly vibrating at love frequency but they suffer the most in the world, worse than any adult. Children over trust due to pure love. Fear in a child can keep it safe for example. So gut instincts and intuition can be most powerful when we experience fear while love can blind people to ignore their intuition!!

 

So you see it's not that simple.

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8 hours ago, novymir said:

I know but the film isn't and can't be a flawless expression of truth here. It comes through enough though.

 

David Icke has talked about "Prime Reality"= The Real World, it's also called "Heaven" or "Nirvana", WHATEVER INFINITE LOVE offers----I ACCEPT IT AS IT IS. (this "world" ain't it!).

It's given me the green light. The door has been opened, all I gotta do is step through. I've procrastinated but that's going to end sooner rather than later.

 

I don't really "envision" it, a clue is that it is the opposite of this illusury thing, it is my True and Natural State of Being(earthly/human isn't). I won't settle for anything less.

 

 

 

I completely understand that. I would say that given that you and all of us here in the simulation were tricked it would be wise to still be cautious about this so called 'Nirvana'. I doubt any reality, even a so called 'prime reality' would be perfect, as many, including Icke, make out it to be. After all we are the ones who would be creating it! And so all our flaws, wants, desires etc. will be built into it. Also the AI that created this bad COPY of that place to trap everyone obviously made it as close to that other place as possible, otherwise you wouldn't be tricked into it!

 

Given that it is likely the place Icke is talking about is very close to this one, but has different problems, I'm not suggesting it's a bad place per se but we shouldn't call anywhere heaven or think of any place in that way.

 

You might want to be less romantic or idealistic about how it's going to be or you could find yourself in 'heaven' or 'Nirvana' of another trap somewhere else not here. One thing Icke and others don't talk about is that this world we call earth is not the only trap, there are other copies and other different traps. Those who seek to use and abuse others have many ways to trap you. An interesting analogy is in the movie Inception (although I agree with you, like you said about the Matrix movie, that they can never be perfect examples or analogies). So the main focus should not be a location to escape to but a state of YOUR being to 'escape' to, once in that state you will see clearer.

 

Think of it like chess. Let's say you are currently trapped playing black, you're told that playing white will free you, but those trapped playing white are told the same thing. One of the reasons humans have the flaw of always thinking 'the grass is always greener...'. is it's built into the program. So it can be used to trap you again and again. What you need to do is get rid of all ideas of concepts like heaven, nivarna, a better place, because you can be damn sure if you're thinking it the AI is already building and programming your cosy little trap already for you to step into. You need to think above the chess game. Find your pure self without all the corruption programmed into you, then you will stop falling into traps.

 

If we assume everything is made of something, energy, consciousness or whatever we call it, then we and everything are 'made' of it. We know that other beings, including AI can 'program' it, build worlds, traps etc. Ergo we can build worlds etc. We can have lone or shared reality and fundamentally we end up where and who we align with. Of course that can be manipulated and tricked, like it has happened in the simulation, but to think that there is only this other good place to go to will deprive you of what you really want, which is to be free.

 

Another trap is the concept of (because that is all it is, like all other ideas) the collective consciousness, popularized by Jung and others (another elite puppet). This has led to the trap of non duality (which deprives you of your sovereignty of Will). If you look in the simulation non duality is everywhere, but if you talk about it being a trap people lose it big time!!! Social media is full of it being promoted and unfortunately people are falling for it. It makes them feel loved, gives them a warm feeling of (false) belonging and eases the pain of being trapped in the simulation. But ask yourself why the simulation is promoting non duality? Why gurus push it all the time? The same gurus who are simulation programs and are abusing their followers for their own desires of sex, money and cult control.

 

And why non duality is perfectly suited to narcissistic thinking and behaviour. That it takes away your right to be sovereign over your core being. Sounds just what the trap wants of you so when you leave the simulation you head straight into a oneness, a hive mind, do as the collective tells you, like all these higher councils of elders and light etc. Just all bs to keep you from taking responsibility for yourself and your existence.

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2 hours ago, Phil26 said:

If we assume everything is made of something, energy, consciousness or whatever we call it, then we and everything are 'made' of it. We know that other beings, including AI can 'program' it, build worlds, traps etc. Ergo we can build worlds etc. We can have lone or shared reality and fundamentally we end up where and who we align with. Of course that can be manipulated and tricked, like it has happened in the simulation, but to think that there is only this other good place to go to will deprive you of what you really want, which is to be free.

 

Not just with the above but in all your replies, you put some great levellers or whatever your answers are feeding into the conversation Phil26 (that yes will take a while in me at least to digest better at some later date), but in the meanwhile are

quite apt I suppose based on my quick read, I just don't know what to say about it all just now exactly, precisely and above all

as I have other matters on my mind "in the life of whatever need calls or demands attention from me"....  but before my own next post I first want to ascertain what is "Ergo" that I have highlighted, that presumably is not EGO you mean is it, but something else? (only I haven't seen Ergo before if that is a thing).

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1 hour ago, Certified Green of Heart said:

 

Not just with the above but in all your replies, you put some great levellers or whatever your answers are feeding into the conversation Phil26 (that yes will take a while in me at least to digest better at some later date), but in the meanwhile are

quite apt I suppose based on my quick read, I just don't know what to say about it all just now exactly, precisely and above all

as I have other matters on my mind "in the life of whatever need calls or demands attention from me"....  but before my own next post I first want to ascertain what is "Ergo" that I have highlighted, that presumably is not EGO you mean is it, but something else? (only I haven't seen Ergo before if that is a thing).

Thank you for your supportive and encouraging words. We all need to support each other in this. Interestingly it is often those willing to offer encouragement and support who have the greatest potential for responsibility of Will (Core self). See David Icke as an example of this. Some see this as contradictory but it isn't. True responsibility and development of Will truly sees others and encourages and supports at the right time while avoiding forcing their Will on others.

The simulation tries to trick us and influence us all the time, hence 'life' getting in the way, sometimes even pleasant experiences we create, but as long as we keep focused on the problem of what Icke calls "Perception Dominance" (the fight over perceived experience and 'reality' between 'divine sparks' and simulation AI) we are making good changes and spreading awareness.

 

"Ergo" is Latin for 'therefore'. It's just a preference to use it but 'therefore' can be used. It's the preference of the individual really which one they use.

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Phil, I have to say I find your experiences fascinating. I've not heard of this phenomenon before.

I wonder if its more connected to the electronics where the books are held which may have something embedded to trigger certain types if , say, keywords are used? No idea, just musing really.

I'd be curious to know if the physical books got the same reaction, as a test.

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1 hour ago, RobinJ said:

Phil, I have to say I find your experiences fascinating. I've not heard of this phenomenon before.

I wonder if its more connected to the electronics where the books are held which may have something embedded to trigger certain types if , say, keywords are used? No idea, just musing really.

I'd be curious to know if the physical books got the same reaction, as a test.

Interesting about the 'electronics' point. If the simulation is true then 'physical' books (but not seen by the person reacting) should get the same response.

 

I wonder if a lot of stuff people dismiss as "God's mysterious ways", good or bad 'luck' or other things they find spiritual or other explanations for are in fact all just the AI simulation. 🤔

 

I know a few people who have confided in me that they have had weird 'reactions' from the 'simulation' for some things, but this was so specific it just seemed a very strange coincidence. 

 

On a related note in The Dream David Icke talks about narcissism (I think he should explore that whole area in depth) and how narcissists react (he compares them to the hive mind of the archons, which I think is accurate), that they are reacting to programming etc. 

 

Have you read The Trap? Did you read about what happened to Icke and the medium? I can't see how anyone can explain that without the AI simulation being true. I have seen, and heard from others, of very strange phenomena that indicates something can get information not through normal physical ways. It probably explains a lot of so called paranormal experience people have. What do you make of what happened to Icke with the medium?

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Gnostic occultists refer to this phenomena of the demiurgic world keeping someone down in its frequency. As someone put it to me 'the matrix is self-aware'

 

They often use an allegorical tale of the grail and the fisher king. The aspirant gnostic will be tempted by a female character called 'kundry' who seeks to lead the knight errant off the spiritual path

 

Kundry can actually take the shape of a female but also anything that pulls you back down into the 5 sense reality.....so they say

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11 hours ago, Macnamara said:

As someone put it to me 'the matrix is self-aware'

 

A system -part built- by narcissists such as that would certainly fit this SELF AWARE PROGNOSIS of NARCISSISTIC GILE etc etc = but not limited to them as the culprits for laying siege on our consciousness *not respecting any person of more natural or integral spirit*, but that contend by any means necessary to them...... Such as to put contextually from their mindset, by socially and in other ways engineering to suit narcissistic taste does of course make perfect sense, to make that apparent as they might also on other aspects of their apparatus of theirs for control... self glory, etc etc, and may feature if not already-> multitudes of copious surveillance cameras, tracking, checks, multi-level leveraging by hierarchy of the rich - and err by the rich mostly, fake virtue signalling to condition us, class wars, stoking up woke, division, death rays by radiation, *and most notably for all technology expansion/ using insidious AI*.).. 
Also where hijacking is also the name of the game=> a possible other thing if not already apparent to assume in some ways (as I know you Mac have thought about but perhaps different from me) New Age regurgitation possibly, and definitely skewing/warping our perception of anything thought of as GOOD or TRUE or FACTUAL, but whilst we're on this subject of NEW, just to remind anyone out there, nothing is really so new about the New World Order though and don't we know it, and so what is so new also about the Matrix, (other than it is more in our faces these days, and more advanced) ... anyway, such as this based on some of my understandings forms the infrastructure for the Matrix or Simulation by which it is built or seg-wayed into conceptual reality to therefore appear real even when it is not, (or large chunks of it not real and not beneficial to OUR LIKING or BEST INTERESTS),

 

And so anyway~ as I began by commenting, it would (have to> I SUPPOSE) **for them the controllers** be desirable to include the notion or option to be "self aware" (semi- humorous but rather more sinister than even the sickest joke)... even if that is purely a data exercise mainly, and to collect all the entire worlds PERSONAL portfolios of the supposedly sovereign individual included... (all gathered & orchestrated in 'central control room' sort of thing - but up in the TECH CLOUD probably mostly fair to say...... as per the internet as far as that goes, until then of course we saw (but most the general public did not see exactly what's UNDER THE BONNET of this tech and what exactly is it being used for more widely!!?!?!?!?!)

in UBER CARS the use of ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE INTER-COMMUNICATING ROBOT PROGRAMMABLE SELF DRIVE CARS).... 

So for anyone still ruminating around what makes the system what it is, well it's right there written & *wired* into that in Master Plan... which permeates (as technology does) also by becoming the vastness it expands to become for DEEP BRAINWASHING of the masses... but within which or at the start of which is also primarily known as the "HIVE MIND" APPARATUS (my word to make more apparent= apparatus) .... It's level of sophistication using modes of devisiveness, and codes for use (as is my guess) designed to work like in an inter-feudal control system, centrally operated on the one hand, but self reliance TOO embedded into the system of the Matrix more as a whole on the other hand, as AI

would mostly take care of itself like in 'a trickle down secondering effect for sphere of influence' or according to whatever limitations or presets AI has been programmed to do, or to self delegate.. (not least through self replication of codes and AI programming etc)....
Yet foremost I suppose most will know (if anything like my idea of it) that the Matrix/ and/or Simulation (dominion over reality), is the main tech "God-Father" (sts) wherever to believe that is found in operation using core centrality having dominion over all domains....

 

Anyway my original point was that since you mention narcissism **of theirs* that seems in keeping with fitting their perverted needs rather well by having certain abilities to be self aware, in the vain sense, and becoming at one with the Matrix Fusion with Human/Cyborg, and well in among having been imposed on us in no small part by narcissists, who also adore smoke & mirrors to go along with that suits them nicely.. haha.

Edited by Certified Green of Heart
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7 hours ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

Phil26 - You appear to absolve yourself of any responsibilty/culpability in other people's angry reactions. Are you sure you didn't play some role yourself?

I'm not responsible for how other people choose to think and feel. It is strange you think I, or anyone else, is responsible for the emotions of another.

 

Also you appear to have ignored the way those people behaved the rest of time towards me, which was fine.

 

It is also worth noting that it is often abusers who say the other person "made them angry", when in fact the person blaming someone else for their anger is simply not taking responsibility for their own actions.

 

Also someone such as yourself, who is projecting the responsibility for emotions onto another (not the person exhibiting the behaviour), is one step away from saying that the other person is then responsible for your BEHAVIOUR as a supposed consequence of your emotions. However, emotions do not cause action or behaviour, we CHOOSE how we react to others in all aspects of our emotions and behaviour. It is one of the earliest lessons a child learns, otherwise they can easily become criminals and narcissistic as they grow up. Personal responsibility, integrity and sovereignty are inseparable.

 

It is a dangerous road to go down when you stop taking responsibility for your own emotions, and thus your actions, and start making excuses that others "made you do it". Example of where that leads - "the devil (voices) made you do it".

 

In truth anyone thinking like that will stay in the trap as those who make excuses for their behaviour (a lack of Will) fall for any lie that suits the 'easiest' way out of any situation.

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7 minutes ago, Phil26 said:

I'm not responsible for how other people choose to think and feel. It is strange you think I, or anyone else, is responsible for the emotions of another.

 

Also you appear to have ignored the way those people behaved the rest of time towards me, which was fine.

 

It is also worth noting that it is often abusers who say the other person "made them angry", when in fact the person blaming someone else for their anger is simply not taking responsibility for their own actions.

 

Also someone such as yourself, who is projecting the responsibility for emotions onto another (not the person exhibiting the behaviour), is one step away from saying that the other person is then responsible for your BEHAVIOUR as a supposed consequence of your emotions. However, emotions do not cause action or behaviour, we CHOOSE how we react to others in all aspects of our emotions and behaviour. It is one of the earliest lessons a child learns, otherwise they can easily become criminals and narcissistic as they grow up. Personal responsibility, integrity and sovereignty are inseparable.

 

It is a dangerous road to go down when you stop taking responsibility for your own emotions, and thus your actions, and start making excuses that others "made you do it". Example of where that leads - "the devil (voices) made you do it".

 

In truth anyone thinking like that will stay in the trap as those who make excuses for their behaviour (a lack of Will) fall for any lie that suits the 'easiest' way out of any situation.

 

I agree that we have a degree of control over our reactions to others, but it takes 2 to tango, and it's very difficult to ignore an extremely provocative person. If we could so, we would become emotionless robots. 

 

If someone punches me, I have every right to get angry, and attribute some blame to the aggressor for my reaction. 

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For whom in <any> situation, I would say "vindictive provocation" is a serious offence, it should be taken more seriously by the emotionless police, if they were anything like human of course. It's hard to say what they are, the police, apart from cold and calculating and trained to be impartial, thus encouraged to not have emotions. Pity the world of Law Enforcement has to be used as an example in such a way, but hopefully not all are like that even in todays' technocratic society, just saying to be provocateur as per the subject.

 

Anyway, fair is fair for this arguement on either side as we don't automatically know a newbie in town except to say Phil26 you handle your words very well, so I guess your emotions too, which sets you up as someone in good control over yourself which is good.

 

For whatever by whom else with outside thinking perhaps where they are tempted (not really saying rightly or wrongly) to say something in pointing out a seemingly wonton hypothetical or denominational assumption (ie, at first from unspoken thought but then decided to allocate by making spoken - perhaps in devils advocate style, then seeming to accuse but proven wrong, or tempered in some way on both sides) ....well the thought and temptation to assume or fill any vacuum of the unknown is always there of course, and then we say what we could be thinking just by how logic tends to push us on expressing everything that comes to mind 😁 and logic assertions etc in wanting to substantiate and ask questions is natural enough, for me too in fact.... So in one way this is great to (ask questions) and to find balance of truth, once we know a person a bit better (but which usually means asking questions or prodding with a monkey stick a little bit, if being naughty or a bit forward etc) 😉, but meanwhile swinging back to my slightly more serious point we other members of longer standing here should perhaps like I suggest~ try maybe to be a little more reserved about making assumptions sometimes me thinks unless provoking like a monkey with a stick finding that irresistable, haha, however provocative by the end of not, to be fair with you too GG, you came back with a measured response which is to say showing to us a common enough yet totally standard understanding about what could be acceptable as a measured response IN A REAL SCENARIO for curtailing trouble, as to see fit even as reaction to somebody (rebuttal &/or outburst), then all is a possible if must be applied, depending on the severity of the stupidity or maleficence of the person, then sure self defence has its' place... Has someone pre-meditated, been a persistent jerk, shown ill consideration over a long length of time, made mindless mistakes again and again, (been disturbed themselves but wrongfully take it out on others) ~ these are just some examples where from anyone meddling or off-balance themselves, all these things can sway someone who is NORMALLY well balanced off balance, when normally you or I might be quite emotionally stable otherwise until people with the above behaviours come along to mess with us and cause disturbances.

 

Anyway~ despite contingency situations where needs must to do something other, I still agree the more better, in particular when around lots of other humans (more triggers to test our resolve) it's overall best to maintain control as best we can... and to cipher safely away any bad energy that comes our way (best by disengaging from the crowd when this is possible) and of course by dis-owning what is patently not ours to store up as our own in the first place when it did not come from us how certain crooked energies got unleashed and mis-directedly so when others cannot control themselves sufficiently.

 

 

Edited by Certified Green of Heart
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1 hour ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

 

I agree that we have a degree of control over our reactions to others, but it takes 2 to tango, and it's very difficult to ignore an extremely provocative person. If we could so, we would become emotionless robots. 

 

If someone punches me, I have every right to get angry, and attribute some blame to the aggressor for my reaction. 

"It takes two to tango" is a silly expression, and doesn't apply to your point. A tango (a dance, an activity two people mutually agree to participate in from the start, BEFORE it begins) is not the same situation as a person carrying out an action upon another person without their consent or prior knowledge, such as "punching someone in the face", so your "tango" saying is erroneous in this discussion, and even to your second paragraph.

 

Just because you find it difficult to control your emotions it does not follow that others do. Also having control over your emotions and thinking before responding does not make someone an "emotionless robot". You are confusing your emotions with action. You are making a connection between cause and effect where this is none. Even your example of someone punching you in the face is erroneous. For example you have not defined why they punched you in the face.

 

If you cut someone off while driving and (according to you) "made them angry" and they followed your car,came up to your door, but your young son opened the door and they punched him in the face you would say you are to blame and let the assault go and not call the police as you accept the blame for giving that person the "right" to be angry. 🙄

 

Also you don't a "right" to feel angry. A "right" is an entitlement and you don't have an entitlement to a predetermined reaction to someone. You can feel angry but it is not a "right". You're talking about emotions like a lot of people nowadays who say they have a "right" to feel offended and go off at people online. That's just an excuse for low intelligence and a lack of self control on their part.

 

It's strange that you think the only two options for people are 1. out of control emotions and reactions, or 2. "emotionless robots". It is perfectly acceptable to feel emotions and not act on them. Emotional states are not urges. You are wrong to interrupt emotions as urges you must follow.

 

Your answer to violence is more violence, look where that has gotten the world. Your perspective is a self centred "I am the centre of my own universe" (non duality) toddler mentality. You cannot justify your actions by what you imagine others "made you feel". Try that in a court of law! 😆

 

You have stated in other threads that you believe this 'dream', reality, world, realm whatever you want to call it, is ONE consciousness dreaming itself. So why do YOU get angry when YOU are punching YOU in the face as that other 'person' you say is just a personality of the WHOLE YOU? What exactly are you angry about then?

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17 minutes ago, Phil26 said:

"It takes two to tango" is a silly expression, and doesn't apply to your point. A tango (a dance, an activity two people mutually agree to participate in from the start, BEFORE it begins) is not the same situation as a person carrying out an action upon another person without their consent or prior knowledge, such as "punching someone in the face", so your "tango" saying is erroneous in this discussion, and even to your second paragraph.

 

Just because you find it difficult to control your emotions it does not follow that others do. Also having control over your emotions and thinking before responding does not make someone an "emotionless robot". You are confusing your emotions with action. You are making a connection between cause and effect where this is none. Even your example of someone punching you in the face is erroneous. For example you have not defined why they punched you in the face.

 

If you cut someone off while driving and (according to you) "made them angry" and they followed your car,came up to your door, but your young son opened the door and they punched him in the face you would say you are to blame and let the assault go and not call the police as you accept the blame for giving that person the "right" to be angry. 🙄

 

Also you don't a "right" to feel angry. A "right" is an entitlement and you don't have an entitlement to a predetermined reaction to someone. You can feel angry but it is not a "right". You're talking about emotions like a lot of people nowadays who say they have a "right" to feel offended and go off at people online. That's just an excuse for low intelligence and a lack of self control on their part.

 

It's strange that you think the only two options for people are 1. out of control emotions and reactions, or 2. "emotionless robots". It is perfectly acceptable to feel emotions and not act on them. Emotional states are not urges. You are wrong to interrupt emotions as urges you must follow.

 

Your answer to violence is more violence, look where that has gotten the world. Your perspective is a self centred "I am the centre of my own universe" (non duality) toddler mentality. You cannot justify your actions by what you imagine others "made you feel". Try that in a court of law! 😆

 

You have stated in other threads that you believe this 'dream', reality, world, realm whatever you want to call it, is ONE consciousness dreaming itself. So why do YOU get angry when YOU are punching YOU in the face as that other 'person' you say is just a personality of the WHOLE YOU? What exactly are you angry about then?

 

All relationships with people are a tango, such as your flatmate. 

 

What makes you angry and why? 

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53 minutes ago, Certified Green of Heart said:

For whom in <any> situation, I would say "vindictive provocation" is a serious offence, it should be taken more seriously by the emotionless police, if they were anything like human of course. It's hard to say what they are, the police, apart from cold and calculating and trained to be impartial, thus encouraged to not have emotions. Pity the world of Law Enforcement has to be used as an example in such a way, but hopefully not all are like that even in todays' technocratic society, just saying to be provocateur as per the subject.

 

Anyway, fair is fair for this arguement on either side as we don't automatically know a newbie in town except to say Phil26 you handle your words very well, so I guess your emotions too, which sets you up as someone in good control over yourself which is good.

 

For whatever by whom else with outside thinking perhaps where they are tempted (not really saying rightly or wrongly) to say something in pointing out a seemingly wonton hypothetical or denominational assumption (ie, at first from unspoken thought but then decided to allocate by making spoken - perhaps in devils advocate style, then seeming to accuse but proven wrong, or tempered in some way on both sides) ....well the thought and temptation to assume or fill any vacuum of the unknown is always there of course, and then we say what we could be thinking just by how logic tends to push us on expressing everything that comes to mind 😁 and logic assertions etc in wanting to substantiate and ask questions is natural enough, for me too in fact.... So in one way this is great to (ask questions) and to find balance of truth, once we know a person a bit better (but which usually means asking questions or prodding with a monkey stick a little bit, if being naughty or a bit forward etc) 😉, but meanwhile swinging back to my slightly more serious point we other members of longer standing here should perhaps like I suggest~ try maybe to be a little more reserved about making assumptions sometimes me thinks unless provoking like a monkey with a stick finding that irresistable, haha, however provocative by the end of not, to be fair with you too GG, you came back with a measured response which is to say showing to us a common enough yet totally standard understanding about what could be acceptable as a measured response IN A REAL SCENARIO for curtailing trouble, as to see fit even as reaction to somebody (rebuttal &/or outburst), then all is a possible if must be applied, depending on the severity of the stupidity or maleficence of the person, then sure self defence has its' place... Has someone pre-meditated, been a persistent jerk, shown ill consideration over a long length of time, made mindless mistakes again and again, (been disturbed themselves but wrongfully take it out on others) ~ these are just some examples where from anyone meddling or off-balance themselves, all these things can sway someone who is NORMALLY well balanced off balance, when normally you or I might be quite emotionally stable otherwise until people with the above behaviours come along to mess with us and cause disturbances.

 

Anyway~ despite contingency situations where needs must to do something other, I still agree the more better, in particular when around lots of other humans (more triggers to test our resolve) it's overall best to maintain control as best we can... and to cipher safely away any bad energy that comes our way (best by disengaging from the crowd when this is possible) and of course by dis-owning what is patently not ours to store up as our own in the first place when it did not come from us how certain crooked energies got unleashed and mis-directedly so when others cannot control themselves sufficiently.

 

 

I have no problem with self defence. If you are in danger you must defend yourself and keep yourself safe, but if the danger has passed and you go after that person it ceases to be self defence.

 

Proportional reactions require the individual to take full responsibility for what they feel. Once people say others "made" them feel something they could justify any level of violence. Therefore proportional reactions are not possible in people who blame others for how they feel. It is the narcissist's excuse to blame others for their own emotions and reactions. It is the same as people who say they cannot control their sexual urges when the other person "made them want them". It is an addiction based thinking, which is why addiction is increasing in the world as narcissists increase in number. It is also the exact same thinking of stalkers and other obsessives. They all say their emotions were "made" in them by the object of their obsession!

 

The assumption of "rights" and that others "made" someone feel a particular emotional state, will lead to the obvious conclusion (which they wanted all along, as it was just an excuse for a lack of self control) that their actions were not their fault. It is the typical narcissistic behaviour of playing victim and never being to blame or taking responsibility.

 

This world is built on narcissistic thinking. Narcissists are increasing and it is like a virus. The elite and those above them are pure narcissism. Only narcissists make it into the 'cult'. No one else would want to be around them. They are psychopaths.

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