Anyone here read hinduism or buddhism? AND WHY earth may be hell like?

[Lilymoon]

I believe those religions say earth is sorta like hell like and people will suffer and need enlightenment and spiritual to get out off it that may explain why God allow this?

 

Well christianity is talking more about one self and path to God and little if any thing what this world is and does not explain why there is pain and suffering in this world and why this world is sorta hell like.

 

I believe with hinduism or buddhism there are different hells and the world is sorta like a staircase with some worlds better than others. With more enlightenment and spiritual one can get to a better worlds than one day to heaven.

 

Well christianity is talking more about one self and path to God and little why they are here and what is this place? Well other people not part of christianity, hinduism or buddhism say yes the world is harsh and people suffer and the world is sorta hell like unless someone got placed here in this world because they where evil in better world than this one.

 

The wars and more wars and genocide. Not say horrible dictatorship and torture. The massive homeless and poverty and the greedy, rich, supper rich and wealthy and class struggle.

Well some others citing is extremely high child birth rate, infant mortality rate, chronic sickness, cancer, sun burns, cannot look up at the sun, needling sunglasses, food intolerance, back and joint pain and other diseases that the planet is too alien to the human body and the gravity and sun is way too strong for humans. People cannot tolerate the weather on earth, people getting cold or too hot easy. Also when you are born on earth you have a very short window of life about just long enough to have kids that about it if you lucky to have kid.

Well some say earth is prison planet and got sent here and some others say earth is sorta hell like and people are not to know about this at all.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Lilymoon

[Campion]

The Buddhism that's popular with westerners mostly focuses on spiritual practice in this world and gives only passing reference to other realms. Also Buddhism is a very diverse religion with many different sects so there's a lot of variety but as a general rule there are heavenly realms with good gods and enjoyable experiences; also hellish realms with suffering and demons. But they are all impermanent and part of Samsara because your destination after death depends on your karma and both good and bad karma get spent up by pleasure and suffering, so while we're in ignorance (of the three signs of being) we remain in the wheel of Samsara. Only as a human on earth can we awaken and break free from Samsara into Nirvana. Therefore most seriously practicing Buddhists aren't focused on going to heaven but to Nirvana, and an earthly human birth is regarded as auspicious and precious because it's an opportunity to practice the Dharma and attain liberation. 

 

You mention Christianity as a path that emphasises the self and its path to God, which is through sacrificial love, ie empathetic love. I would interpret this as saying the Christian expands their sense of "self" by loving and identifying with an ever-expanding circle of "other".  This circle expands from the individual ego out to include others, eventually everything, the whole universe and when you have an unconditional love for literally Everything, that is God's Love. 

 

Buddhism goes the opposite way to reach the same goal. The Three Signs of Being I mentioned earlier are impermanence, suffering and non-self. You are taught that the cause of your suffering is clinging to an illusory notion of being a separate self, rather than external circumstances such as being in hell. So to Buddhism the natural world itself isn't hellish, but hell and suffering are the results of our selfishness and deluded belief in having a separate ego, self or soul. When that boundary dissolves, what's left is what's called emptiness or the Void, which is also Everything or the Infinite. Ie it's the same as the Christian God. 

 

I think there's a common truth here that a true saint of any religion doesn't suffer if they're in hell or get lost in hedonism when in heaven. But the rest of us are blown about emotionally by the circumstances we're in. 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Campion

[Lilymoon]

Quote

Buddhists aren't focused on going to heaven but to Nirvana, and an earthly human birth is regarded as auspicious and precious because it's an opportunity to practice the Dharma and attain liberation. 

 

 

 Can you elaborate on this part? Are they just trying to go to better earth?

 

Quote

You are taught that the cause of your suffering is clinging to an illusory notion of being a separate self,

 

What do they mean hell is illusory and not real?

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Lilymoon

[Campion]

2 hours ago, Lilymoon said:

 Can you elaborate on this part? Are they just trying to go to better earth? 

 

Well when you look up the descriptions of Nirvana it's more about a state of mind rather than a place to go to. When someone achieves Nirvana they've extinguished all striving and craving for something better than the here and now. Only the here and now exists, so if you spend your life in hope for something theoretically better the whole time, you miss out on the real happiness that's here and now.  This is why Buddhism is sometimes accused of being too passive and accepting of the obvious wrongs in the world. 

 

Yes there are also Buddhist heavens which they can go to in the afterlife if they've accumulated enough good karma, which are supposed to be very nice places (if you believe it). However, unlike the Christian heaven, the Buddhist ones are impermanent so you can't stay forever. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Lilymoon said:

What do they mean hell is illusory and not real?

 

It's not hell which is illusory to Buddhism but the notion of a separate self which owns the experience. At least that's my understanding of the concept of "anatta".  In their belief you could still go to a hell-realm if you accumulate enough bad karma, but as it's impermanent too then maybe purgatory would be a better name. 

 

Going to either the Buddhist heavens or purgatory presupposes you're not enlightened yet, so you believe the pleasant or unpleasant experience is happening to you. You may (hypothetically) believe it's unfair this is happening to you and you want to get out; or that you love it and want to stay there longer than your karma allows you to. Well that's rather like pleasant and unpleasant experiences here on earth isn't it? We're always dissatisfied to some extent with what we're going through. They could always be a bit better or last longer or shorter. Or nearly always: sometimes we get into such a flow that we forget ourselves in a moment of pure timeless bliss. That's a demythologised way of putting it - states of mind rather than real places to visit - so if you visited a Zen Buddhist master for example, they would be pointing you towards your actual direct experience rather than building up some belief system about what may or may not happen in the future. 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Campion

[Lilymoon]

1 hour ago, Campion said:

 

Well when you look up the descriptions of Nirvana it's more about a state of mind rather than a place to go to. When someone achieves Nirvana they've extinguished all striving and craving for something better than the here and now. Only the here and now exists, so if you spend your life in hope for something theoretically better the whole time, you miss out on the real happiness that's here and now.  This is why Buddhism is sometimes accused of being too passive and accepting of the obvious wrongs in the world. 

 

Yes there are also Buddhist heavens which they can go to in the afterlife if they've accumulated enough good karma, which are supposed to be very nice places (if you believe it). However, unlike the Christian heaven, the Buddhist ones are impermanent so you can't stay forever. 

 

 

 

It's not hell which is illusory to Buddhism but the notion of a separate self which owns the experience. At least that's my understanding of the concept of "anatta".  In their belief you could still go to a hell-realm if you accumulate enough bad karma, but as it's impermanent too then maybe purgatory would be a better name. 

 

Going to either the Buddhist heavens or purgatory presupposes you're not enlightened yet, so you believe the pleasant or unpleasant experience is happening to you. You may (hypothetically) believe it's unfair this is happening to you and you want to get out; or that you love it and want to stay there longer than your karma allows you to. Well that's rather like pleasant and unpleasant experiences here on earth isn't it? We're always dissatisfied to some extent with what we're going through. They could always be a bit better or last longer or shorter. Or nearly always: sometimes we get into such a flow that we forget ourselves in a moment of pure timeless bliss. That's a demythologised way of putting it - states of mind rather than real places to visit - so if you visited a Zen Buddhist master for example, they would be pointing you towards your actual direct experience rather than building up some belief system about what may or may not happen in the future. 

 

Can you explain karma and the karma trap the karma cycle. Are the more hell earths with bad karma well the more good heaven earth with more good karma.

 

The problem is after death we don’t remember what karma to work on and what karma is the problem.

 

[Campion]

10 hours ago, Lilymoon said:

Can you explain karma and the karma trap the karma cycle. Are the more hell earths with bad karma well the more good heaven earth with more good karma.

 

The problem is after death we don’t remember what karma to work on and what karma is the problem.

 

Just to be clear, are you still asking about the Buddhist beliefs or mine?  I'm not a Buddhist by the way but used to be a long time ago which is why I'm presuming to explain their beliefs.  I'll start by giving my thoughts but let me know if this isn't what you're after. 

 

There's various theories about karma and its link to reincarnation. One idea about the "reincarnation trap" which I've mentioned on the other thread  is that it's used as a guilt trip when we have our life review so we agree that we've been bad or not spiritually developed enough yet, and we need to reincarnate to the earth school to learn more lessons. This is to serve the reptilian agenda of using us as their slaves and energy source, and it means we're being monitored and marked all the time on our behaviour. 

 

So I've come to view the idea of an individual karmic bank account which belongs to us as baloney and manipulation. Or at the very least its wishful thinking that there is justice in the universe similar to our own legal systems on Earth.  What I can actually see happening with my own eyes is that karma is the Indian name for moral consequences, or moral cause-and-effect. Therefore it's collective rather than individual: if I do something bad and it affects someone else then the overall community is worse off for it.  Also some of the bad things in my life are caused by other people's actions, like if I was bullied at school then I may bear grudges towards other people and not trust them as much. If I grow up feeling happy and loved then I'm probably going to be a more sociable, well-adjusted and nicer person to be around. 

 

In other words both good and bad deeds have effects which ripple outwards to the whole community and world. Human actions are reactions caused by the past, and in turn cause other reactions in the future in a complex web of interconnectivity.   We then wonder why the world is such an incurably bad place but that's like a projection of what's really our own web of human relationships. 

 

The trick is to shift it from a zero sum game of one person benefiting from the other's loss, to a game of mutual benefit and growth. If you're into maths, I'd recommend looking up game theory which shows how this can even be described logically. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Campion

[Lilymoon]

Quote

There's various theories about karma and its link to reincarnation. One idea about the "reincarnation trap" which I've mentioned on the other thread  is that it's used as a guilt trip when we have our life review so we agree that we've been bad or not spiritually developed enough yet, and we need to reincarnate to the earth school to learn more lessons. This is to serve the reptilian agenda of using us as their slaves and energy source, and it means we're being monitored and marked all the time on our behaviour. 

This is the reptilian theory the reptilian prison planet theory that earth is controlled by reptilian aliens and earth is soul farm for reptilian and when one dies the reptilian will try to get people to keep reincarnation on earth over and over. 

 

But Buddhist does not seem much better as they big on Karma and continue of pain and suffering because of the Karma. That it is well almost impossible to get to Buddhist heaven.

 

I’m not sure if Buddhist or Hinduism say earth is sorta of hell like place but in the prison planet theory mostly the UFO community they make reference to earth being hell like place because people being sent to prison here because humans are too evil and other aliens don’t want an evil primitive race starting wars all the time in space.

 

Well other theory is God sent people here because of the life they lived before was sinful or bad karma or some thing.  That theory may explain why God allows pain, suffering and evil on earth and God is more distance. I don’t buy into the free will all loving God as no God would allow genocide and mass killings or such terrible really terrible dictators. May be free will if I get drunk and go speeding but not major war and genocide and mass killings.
 

If earth is sorta of hell like place and God sent people here for their sinfulness, evil nature or bad Karma that may explain why God allows pain, suffering, and evil on earth if earth is sorta of hell like place well people are in prison here by God. That may explain why God is more distance here and still so many debated does God real or not go on and on.

 

It also possible the better worlds are more heaven like and closer to God. It also possible worlds closer to heaven people may be able to communicate with God every day.
 

A world in between heaven may be more a Star Trek world where money and wealth is abolished and so is poverty, homeless and the poor but the earth Karma may be to just way to bad for such thing to happen here or earth or sorta of prison hell that God sent people here and people have to serve their prison time. And people karma on earth way to low because everyone is inmates.

 

 

 

[Mr H]

I don't know about Buddhism or Hinduism.

 

But you describe experience as hell and reel of a list. This is subjective. Many can compile a rather different looking list to the contrary.

 

At the essence of your question is why is there suffering and why are we here.

 

There is no suffering from one perspective, and nobody really dies. There are no entities that exist that suffer. Indeed suffering is caused by the belief that you are a separate human. If you give up this belief which has no evidence you will not suffer. So from a non dual perspective, the question is mute.

 

It is really a question for the human experiencer only and as mentioned above suffering is a choice....decide not to suffer anymore TODAY.

 

Why are we here? The best we can say is out of love. Creation for creation's sake. Why the artist does the painting. To express, see what is possible etc....

[gregory-peccary]

Pure Land Buddhism has the belief that if you are good and chant the name of Amitabha Buddha for hours every day you will be reborn in the Pure Land where Enlightenment and the attainment of Nirvana is a lot easier than here on earth.

Karma is an iron law that cannot be escaped, there is good karma and bad karma, both are a hindrance to Nirvana.

Do what The Buddha taught and you can attain Nirvana in exactly the same way Buddha did.

 

As for the buddhist hells, most people avoid them and just get reborn: why do you think babies look so pissed off? They know they are back again!

 

As for the higher buddhist heavens, they sound like fun and you live like a god - but you have to be born human to get to Nirvana and off the cycle of rebirth.

All things are impermanent, even your time spent in heaven or hell.

Edited November 29, 2023 by gregory-peccary

[Lilymoon]

2 hours ago, Mr H said:

I don't know about Buddhism or Hinduism.

 

But you describe experience as hell and reel of a list. This is subjective. Many can compile a rather different looking list to the contrary.

 

At the essence of your question is why is there suffering and why are we here.

 

There is no suffering from one perspective, and nobody really dies. There are no entities that exist that suffer. Indeed suffering is caused by the belief that you are a separate human. If you give up this belief which has no evidence you will not suffer. So from a non dual perspective, the question is mute.

 

It is really a question for the human experiencer only and as mentioned above suffering is a choice....decide not to suffer anymore TODAY.

 

Why are we here? The best we can say is out of love. Creation for creation's sake. Why the artist does the painting. To express, see what is possible etc....

When I mean suffering I mean set person being evicted or set person living on the street in heat wave or on the streets in the cold. A set person working three jobs and making only $30,000 a year, a set person with Parkinson's disease or crohn's disease and having diarrhea 10 times a day or cancer or other disease. Some one in Africa have no access to food or water. This is suffering you can’t say it all in person head.

 

I don’t believe new age religion an all powerful God that wants to experience every thing and we are all parts of God experience joy, happy, sad, pleasure and suffering.

 

You have to understand a God is all powerful and knows every thing and would  experience or could experience or create an experience any thing before creating living beings to experience any thing. A all powerful God is all perfect with no mistakes and I mean no mistakes that means engineering, biology or medicine have not even one mistake . The gravity is so perfect it is down to molecular level. A all powerful God could create computer with such perfection it could last million years and not break down in between the time.

 

You have to understand EVERY thing created and all experience is for reason. The problem with lot of religions is more about one path to God and little why we here and why world is the way it is.  I believe lot of new age religions or some UFO communities are tired of non answered questions about the world like Christianity that still has many questions not answered and sugar costs the problems.

 

I also believe earth Karma is way too low and 95% or more people could not live in Star Trek world with no money, wealth, greed, poverty, poor and homeless and so on. Humans are just way too greedy and selfish and worship money. And the problem is the world works on a money system so you are force to go to work and save money to get buy in the world. Well on earth it is a pipe dram people work fore free and all money, wealth, greed is all gone and some person or government will see all poverty, poor and homeless are gone and non class society.

 

May be if there are better worlds and people with better Karma God may place them there in a Star Trek type economy system.

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Lilymoon

[Mr H]

22 minutes ago, Lilymoon said:

When I mean suffering I mean set person being evicted or set person living on the street in heat wave or on the streets in the cold. A set person working three jobs and making only $30,000 a year, a set person with Parkinson's disease or crohn's disease and having diarrhea 10 times a day or cancer or other disease. Some one in Africa have no access to food or water. This is suffering you can’t say it all in person head.

 

I don’t believe new age religion an all powerful God that wants to experience every thing and we are all parts of God experience joy, happy, sad, pleasure and suffering.

 

 

 

Isn't this new age religion you describe the oldest one? Sounds bit like Hinduism.

 

Yes although it may sound insensitive all experience is in mind, even bodily sensations are experienced in mind. When I say suffering isn't really real from God's perspective is because it would require a subject object relationship, when you peel back the layers none exist.

 

The experience of suffering is real but there is no one suffering. Most of the instances you write also have simple practical solutions.

[Lilymoon]

6 minutes ago, Mr H said:

Isn't this new age religion you describe the oldest one? Sounds bit like Hinduism.

 

Yes although it may sound insensitive all experience is in mind, even bodily sensations are experienced in mind. When I say suffering isn't really real from God's perspective is because it would require a subject object relationship, when you peel back the layers none exist.

 

The experience of suffering is real but there is no one suffering. Most of the instances you write also have simple practical solutions.

Not sure what you mean from a person perspective it is in the persons mind but from God it does not exist?

You have to also understand God created the mind and sensations .

Edited November 29, 2023 by Lilymoon

[Mr H]

48 minutes ago, Lilymoon said:

Not sure what you mean from a person perspective it is in the persons mind but from God it does not exist?

You have to also understand God created the mind and sensations .

What I mean is. Ultimately there is one view if reality, God's view.

 

But most people still believe they are humans. Therefore I describe sometimes, experience from the perspective of the human that believes they exist as a separate self.

 

So yes we could say suffering pertains to human mind not for God.

 

We can collapse further and suggest that there is no real human mind either. Only God. Then we kinda get to the part where we have to remain silent as there are no more words. And in silence we find peace.

[Lilymoon]

7 minutes ago, Mr H said:

What I mean is. Ultimately there is one view if reality, God's view.

 

But most people still believe they are humans. Therefore I describe sometimes, experience from the perspective of the human that believes they exist as a separate self.

 

So yes we could say suffering pertains to human mind not for God.

 

We can collapse further and suggest that there is no real human mind either. Only God. Then we kinda get to the part where we have to remain silent as there are no more words. And in silence we find peace.

Well yes God will not suffer but God would have to create the mind and sensation. 
 

 Not sure what you mean by God view? What people are sinful and not obeying God?

 

If God created humans that the experience God wants people to have.
 

 

[Macnamara]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:41 PM, Lilymoon said:

I believe with hinduism or buddhism there are different hells and the world is sorta like a staircase with some worlds better than others. With more enlightenment and spiritual one can get to a better worlds than one day to heaven.

 

yogis are seeking to recognise themselves as deity (brahma) to end the illusion of individual existence. By exchanging their ego for shiva or buddha they shift their psychological centre of personality from personal ego to impersonal non-ego which they then experience as the ground of the personality

 

By doing so they achieve moksha or release from a cycle of suffering

[Mr H]

1 hour ago, Lilymoon said:

Well yes God will not suffer but God would have to create the mind and sensation. 
 

 Not sure what you mean by God view? What people are sinful and not obeying God?

 

If God created humans that the experience God wants people to have.
 

 

God is not a person.

 

God is..........................

 

This isness, prior to appearing as objective experience, is what I refer to as God's view.

 

I'm not really sure what sin means? I guess doing naughty things? This is all subjective and for humans to sort out and agree upon.

 

Yes, the last part I would say that everything is as it should be. There are no accidents. If you want to see something different, then YOU (god) will have to get your creativity bag out and rustle something up for us.

[Mr H]

I think people like to make out God is like a person so they can assign blame to someone. It's god's fault, no it was the devil's fault...

 

Could it be possible that it is actually YOUR fault? Yes, YOU, god. Not man in sky God... and the only way you will see change is by changing yourself, or the beliefs you have about yourself.....not by assigning blame to seeming others, or man in sky God.

[Mr H]

The shit show or shizen fest of suffering ALL ends, the moment you wake up to who you truly are, or more accurately, what you are not. This is the great awakening.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Mr H

[Lilymoon]

1 hour ago, Mr H said:

God is not a person.

 

God is..........................

 

This isness, prior to appearing as objective experience, is what I refer to as God's view.

 

I'm not really sure what sin means? I guess doing naughty things? This is all subjective and for humans to sort out and agree upon.

 

Yes, the last part I would say that everything is as it should be. There are no accidents. If you want to see something different, then YOU (god) will have to get your creativity bag out and rustle something up for us.

A God could be any thing a cloud, dust or air a grass a tree a sky or space as God is every where and could experience any thing. But if God created people and created feelings and body sensations that is what God wants people to experience. In sense God is invisible and every where but could take any form if God wanted to shows it self to us.

Not sure what you mean if you want to see some thing different and what do you mean by accidents?

 

 

[Lilymoon]

1 hour ago, Mr H said:

I think people like to make out God is like a person so they can assign blame to someone. It's god's fault, no it was the devil's fault...

 

Could it be possible that it is actually YOUR fault? Yes, YOU, god. Not man in sky God... and the only way you will see change is by changing yourself, or the beliefs you have about yourself.....not by assigning blame to seeming others, or man in sky God.

Well hinduism or buddhism is more about Karma well christianity is more about sin of mankind is why the world the way it is. But there still lot of questions not answered.