Curious about death?

[Mr H]

2 hours ago, Jason57 said:

Suicide would destroy my family, so i'm still here.

And so you know I'm not speaking from the backside. I've been down that route years ago. Another story. So I do understand where you are coming from and what was the solution....

[Jason57]

I'm not sure i follow. Me not committing suicide means we're all having a experience?

[Campion]

4 hours ago, Mr H said:

You say you don't experience deep sleep. How do you know this? Relying on memory? I can tell you, memory is not reliable. It is true you don't experience objects in deep sleep, because you essentially are not an object. The nothingness itself, is your experience if deep sleep. I'm sure if I asked you, did you go to sleep last night, the answer would be yes.

 

I suppose I know I've been asleep because I'm aware of the peaceful light sleep stages of falling asleep and waking up (I don't know the proper names), and the occasional dreams. But I can't say I've ever experienced hours of nothingness or objectlessness at night. The nothingness just feels like, well, nothing inbetween periods of drowsiness, even though it lasts for hours in physical time. 

 

4 hours ago, Mr H said:

Personally I find that there is no real death, and the best we know is consciousness at rest is like deep sleep - comforting and liberating.

 

"consciousness at rest" yes, I get that; rest, relaxation etc is great when I'm conscious of it. But for me deep sleep is unconscious, perhaps that's the difference between us. 

[Mr H]

25 minutes ago, Campion said:

 

I suppose I know I've been asleep because I'm aware of the peaceful light sleep stages of falling asleep and waking up (I don't know the proper names), and the occasional dreams. But I can't say I've ever experienced hours of nothingness or objectlessness at night. The nothingness just feels like, well, nothing inbetween periods of drowsiness, even though it lasts for hours in physical time. 

 

 

"consciousness at rest" yes, I get that; rest, relaxation etc is great when I'm conscious of it. But for me deep sleep is unconscious, perhaps that's the difference between us. 

But what you are describing seems like the experience without objects. I think you try maybe and grasp with a waking state mind, which can only operate in objects. I.e. you are trying to remember the experience. But maybe you just know the experience? We don't need to go to memory to know.

 

If I asked you are you aware?

 

I think you KNOW you are. This is a knowing experience. Separate from an objective memory experience.

 

I would say the difference between phenomena and noumena.

 

 

[Campion]

16 minutes ago, Mr H said:

But what you are describing seems like the experience without objects. I think you try maybe and grasp with a waking state mind, which can only operate in objects. I.e. you are trying to remember the experience. But maybe you just know the experience? We don't need to go to memory to know.

 

If I asked you are you aware?

 

I think you KNOW you are. This is a knowing experience. Separate from an objective memory experience.

 

I would say the difference between phenomena and noumena. 

 

Yes this is all true when I'm awake or semi-awake, but when I'm in deep sleep I have no reference points to say anything about it. From the pov of awareness it's just not there. Yes I'm talking from memory now but I can't help that. 

[Mr H]

1 hour ago, Campion said:

 

Yes this is all true when I'm awake or semi-awake, but when I'm in deep sleep I have no reference points to say anything about it. From the pov of awareness it's just not there. Yes I'm talking from memory now but I can't help that. 

 

It is true you cannot describe your experience because that would require for there to be objects. The only way you can describe your experience is silence, because that's what happened during your time.

 

 

[itsnotallrightjack]

On 11/22/2023 at 2:59 PM, Jason57 said:

True, but dead people don't physically have to pay bills, be controlled by crooks, and go to work for little to no money.

 

That's why if this subject comes up I say that death doesn't worry me. I don't believe in existence after death (scientific evidence strongly indicates this; the Hadron Collider is an example). I don't have a desire to live on per se, but if there was another more pleasant existence of some sort after physical life, that's fine. Like most people I want a quick painless death (I think that is what most people fear rather than actually being "dead.").

Edited December 6, 2023 by itsnotallrightjack

[Jason57]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:08 AM, itsnotallrightjack said:

 

That's why if this subject comes up I say that death doesn't worry me. I don't believe in existence after death (scientific evidence strongly indicates this; the Hadron Collider is an example). I don't have a desire to live on per se, but if there was another more pleasant existence of some sort after physical life, that's fine. Like most people I want a quick painless death (I think that is what most people fear rather than actually being "dead.").

I don't put much stock in science to be honest. They could be telling as much lies as religion does and we'd be none the wiser. Socratese said it best "True wisdom is admitting how little you know"  I don' dismiss anything, nor do I fully believe everything.

[Macnamara]

On 11/22/2023 at 1:58 PM, Campion said:

Do you mean the ego death of spirituality rather than physical death? If so then yes I get what you're saying. But there's a risk that someone might misunderstand if they're suffering and looking for an escape. Death isn't an escape from suffering, there's no guarantees it'll be peaceful either. 

 

Even ego death turns out to be imaginary because the ego wasn't real to begin with. I'm not alive in the first place, it's the other way round. We don't have a life, life has me and you. Life is the cycle of birth and death, death isn't the end of life. So true happiness isn't something to seek and find (or not find), it's something to be. When we search for happiness, we're searching for ourselves, our true self. But we don't know it because society is desperate to keep us seeking happiness externally. 

 

Sorry just some random thoughts, I'm not trying to build a belief system or argue for or against anyone.

 

The osiris mysteries were the main mystery of the egyptians who seem to have been obsessed with death. It's perhaps facile to make a parallel between osiris and the sun which 'dies' each day and then is reborn in the same way it is reductionist to see christianity purely through the lense of astrotheology. For example, as we approach christmas, i'm sure we will hear many truthers say that jesus is the sun which dies for three days at christmas time as the sun remains in the same place on the horizon (horus-on) before then beginning its northern journey again but really that lens is just one layer in an esoteric russian doll

 

The deepest mysteries of osiris were not even revealed to all the priests but rather to people who were the most approved

 

I imagine that they were related to the journey of the soul and that throughout history there have been practised death and rebirth mysteries and i don't mean empty lodge rituals such as the freemasonic third degree but a fully immersive and life changing event. They believed that death was far too important to wait for the dying of your physical body and that rebirth had to be experienced during life.