Suicide

[Jason57]

What is David's (and everyone else on here) views on where our consciousness goes if we commit suicide? Touchy subject i know, but i'm curious about it.

[pi3141]

It's not a sin to commit suicide. 

 

Where you go, depends on how you pass, so the act itself has little bearing but in what state of mind you pass will affect things.

 

Hence if a person is driven to taking their life in desperation, they will not be in a good state of mind and it will affect their destination. 

 

Many instances of suicides in our history, including forced suicides like Socrates. It bears no stain, your life, your choice.

 

My opinion. 

[Jason57]

Much appreciated. My biggest fear about suicide and the afterlife is reincarnation. Almost like you have to see your life out til the end, otherwise it's back to the start.

[pi3141]

12 hours ago, Jason57 said:

Much appreciated. My biggest fear about suicide and the afterlife is reincarnation. Almost like you have to see your life out til the end, otherwise it's back to the start.

 

Many spiritualists, myself included, do not believe in reincarnation. 

 

My view is that the belief in reincarnation is the same, but a kinder, more gentle teaching or guidance as the doctrine of Hell.

 

It's put there to make people think twice about being bad. If your going to Hell or coming back again it can be enough to stop people from being bad.

 

There are some instances where reincarnation happens, babies that don't go full term for instance, and it's said we progress through several stages of life with the human form being the last before we enter the spiritual kingdom.

 

But otherwise I don't think everyone automatically comes back here.

[XelNaga]

On 11/21/2023 at 3:05 AM, pi3141 said:

 

Many spiritualists, myself included, do not believe in reincarnation. 

 

My view is that the belief in reincarnation is the same, but a kinder, more gentle teaching or guidance as the doctrine of Hell.

 

It's put there to make people think twice about being bad. If your going to Hell or coming back again it can be enough to stop people from being bad.

 

There are some instances where reincarnation happens, babies that don't go full term for instance, and it's said we progress through several stages of life with the human form being the last before we enter the spiritual kingdom.

 

But otherwise I don't think everyone automatically comes back here.

Have you read books by Michael Newton? He is a hypnotherapist.

 

I wonder what you think about experiences from his patients?

[pi3141]

4 hours ago, XelNaga said:

Have you read books by Michael Newton? He is a hypnotherapist.

 

I wonder what you think about experiences from his patients?

 

No, haven't heard of him. I assume it's past life memories?

 

I don't know the answer to that, all I can say, as someone who attends spiritualist church, if reincarnation is the normal, who or what are those mediums communicating with?

 

I know the Christian answer is evil spirits impersonating our loved ones, but I don't think that's what it is. I think they are the spirits of our family which demonstrates they are 'up there' not returning here.

[BornFreeNowAgain]

None of us know for sure, all we have are our own opinions, and even these change with 'time'. My own thoughts are that we live in a reincarnation cycle, and we will need to learn and make the right choices. Now whether there is an 'out' I am not sure. I have heard from some Spiritual people that if you choose suicide as an option you would need to do a lot of healing 'in between Worlds', and the chances are you would be back here anyway. 

 

I can understand why people choose this option for sure and I have known a number of people who have indeed taken this 'choice'. Sometimes life is so brutal that even momentary 'peace' can seem appealing. Did we 'choose' to come here, because if we truly did, then there should be no 'Spiritual consequences' for pulling the plug. Is there really a way out of this reincarnation cycle? I am undecided. 

[XelNaga]

10 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

No, haven't heard of him. I assume it's past life memories?

 

I don't know the answer to that, all I can say, as someone who attends spiritualist church, if reincarnation is the normal, who or what are those mediums communicating with?

 

I know the Christian answer is evil spirits impersonating our loved ones, but I don't think that's what it is. I think they are the spirits of our family which demonstrates they are 'up there' not returning here.

It's past life memories and in-between life memories, memories from up there, and they speak a lot about how's and why's of reincarnation. Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls, really interesting books. Check them out if you have time, you can find free pdf versions.

 

Some would say that those are spirits who have learned all their lessons from physical worlds, and have no need to reincarnate anymore, thus they operare solely from the other realm.

 

Others say that our spirits never 100% incarnate, some portion of it always stays up there.

 

Who knows..

[XelNaga]

6 hours ago, BornFreeNowAgain said:

None of us know for sure, all we have are our own opinions, and even these change with 'time'. My own thoughts are that we live in a reincarnation cycle, and we will need to learn and make the right choices. Now whether there is an 'out' I am not sure. I have heard from some Spiritual people that if you choose suicide as an option you would need to do a lot of healing 'in between Worlds', and the chances are you would be back here anyway. 

 

I can understand why people choose this option for sure and I have known a number of people who have indeed taken this 'choice'. Sometimes life is so brutal that even momentary 'peace' can seem appealing. Did we 'choose' to come here, because if we truly did, then there should be no 'Spiritual consequences' for pulling the plug. Is there really a way out of this reincarnation cycle? I am undecided. 

The more the time passes, and as I get older, I have a feeling that ideas like Gnosticism, and David Icke's ideas are true.

 

I have no doubt about reincarnation being real, for me there is too much evidence to support that idea. But I'm of the opinion that we, our spirits, are trapped in this realm, and that reincarnation is forced upon us through trickery by something malevolent (archons for example), and that they feed upon our spiritual energy through all the pain, misery and suffering they create in this realm.

[webtrekker]

Well, they do say that Reincarnation is making a comeback.

 

 

 

[BornFreeNowAgain]

8 hours ago, XelNaga said:

The more the time passes, and as I get older, I have a feeling that ideas like Gnosticism, and David Icke's ideas are true.

 

I have no doubt about reincarnation being real, for me there is too much evidence to support that idea. But I'm of the opinion that we, our spirits, are trapped in this realm, and that reincarnation is forced upon us through trickery by something malevolent (archons for example), and that they feed upon our spiritual energy through all the pain, misery and suffering they create in this realm.

Yes, unfortunately this is pretty much the conclusion I have arrived at too. The only thing undecided from me, is 'is there still a way out, and are we still helped even from this realm by the 'light' side'? It could simply be that our consciousness has been trapped here (or at least a part of it, a Soul fragment separate from the Oversoul), maybe we even 'came here' to try to retrieve that part of us. 

 

There is no doubt that I have 'been helped' at stages of my life. Now this could be another part of the control system which takes care of all of us whether we follow the mass, or become errants. Or, there really is 'dark and light' operating in this realm, and that the 'light' are her to help us break free. I remember reading a few years ago a PDF by Wes Penre in which he talked about the Pleiadians, and how they were now communicating with us to warn us that we should not make the same mistakes they did; which was to become too entwined with technology. They had essentially been trapped here for fusing to technology (transhumanism anyone. Maybe we are The Pleiadians? 

[Grumpy Grapes]

I don't recall David saying that anything happens that is out of the ordinary, though I haven't read his latest books. 

 

In terms of Karma it depends on personal circumstances - probably not great if you had debts/responsibilities to take care of. That said I personally have an usual view of Karma that doesn't incorporate traditional views of reincarnation. After dying you leave your karma behind in this world. I think there's only one mind here on Earth but existing simultaneously in different bodies (holographic principle), so when you die your karma gets shifted onto others that are on Earth, either now or in the future.

 

We all exit at the same time, from the point of view of those outside our realm. 

 

Edited November 23 by Grumpy Grapes

[BornFreeNowAgain]

8 hours ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

I don't recall David saying that anything happens that is out of the ordinary, though I haven't read his latest books. 

 

In terms of Karma it depends on personal circumstances - probably not great if you had debts/responsibilities to take care of. That said I personally have an usual view of Karma that doesn't incorporate traditional views of reincarnation. After dying you leave your karma behind in this world. I think there's only one mind here on Earth but existing simultaneously in different bodies (holographic principle), so when you die your karma gets shifted onto others that are on Earth, either now or in the future.

 

We all exit at the same time, from the point of view of those outside our realm. 

 

Although I see it differently I love your perspective. I think what is apparent though, regardless of if we can escape the 'reincarnation trap', is that we simply must heal ourselves whilst we are here. Only then can we hope to stop creating karma for ourselves; heal the shadow, heal your trauma/wounds, so that you can make Soul choices that free you from karmic debt. 

[jack121]

The vast majoity of what has been mentioned is just point of veiws or opinions with no proof. I see suicide as the coward's way. Man up. Face life and your problems. If it gets so bad you are thinking about suicide reach out, you have a entire forum of support

Don't throw your life away, live, acheive, leave a great legacy.

What if there is no reincarnation and you have got it all wrong. What if there is nothing else after this, except lying in a grave, food for the worms and spiders

[novymir]

(Self)Deceit is what "brought" "us" "here"...(self)deceit is the only thing that could "keep" "us" "here".

Buddha said: "this world/life is suffering"..."...the cause of suffering is a delusion of self...".

 

A "delusion of self" obviously means identifying as something that is not true, which then means not real. What is true is real, what is real is true, they are inseparable.

 

The ego doesn't like it when it's miscreation and deceit is exposed; egoWorld is egoMatrix is InversionLand is NeverNeverLand(the opposite of AlwaysAlwaysLand=REALITY).

 

Behold! The world! In all it's glory!

 

[novymir]

A universal prayer for, by, and with Love is simply:

When anyone's and anything's worldly body expires that The Truth dawns on them and True Will Prevails. 

You don't have to know exactly what that looks like...you only have to trust in the power and nature of Love-Truth.

 

"Do" unto "others" as you would have "done" to "you".

 

 

 

[Mr H]

On 11/19/2023 at 7:10 PM, Jason57 said:

What is David's (and everyone else on here) views on where our consciousness goes if we commit suicide? Touchy subject i know, but i'm curious about it.

 

We don't have consciousness. Consciousness has us. All there is is consciousness. It does not go anywhere.

 

What people call death, is the cessation of thoughts and feelings. YOU always remain, you can never die. YOU is the one laying comfortable in bed dreaming all this experience up.

 

A different question is what happens to the experience of thoughts and feelings after apparent death, as that's what we refer to.

 

If you look at the laws of this experience it seems to suggest that they will have to continue on in some form or other as energy can't be destroyed is a law on this plane. So my best guess is if you don't transmute suffering in this apparent lifetime it will continue in some shape or form in another apparent lifetime. So my suggestion is to make the courageous decision today, never to suffer ever again. Future human experiencers may whole heartedly appreciate it.

[Jason57]

36 minutes ago, Mr H said:

 

We don't have consciousness. Consciousness has us. All there is is consciousness. It does not go anywhere.

 

What people call death, is the cessation of thoughts and feelings. YOU always remain, you can never die. YOU is the one laying comfortable in bed dreaming all this experience up.

 

A different question is what happens to the experience of thoughts and feelings after apparent death, as that's what we refer to.

 

If you look at the laws of this experience it seems to suggest that they will have to continue on in some form or other as energy can't be destroyed is a law on this plane. So my best guess is if you don't transmute suffering in this apparent lifetime it will continue in some shape or form in another apparent lifetime. So my suggestion is to make the courageous decision today, never to suffer ever again. Future human experiencers may whole heartedly appreciate it.

I have to ask, do you believe in prayer?

[Mr H]

13 minutes ago, Jason57 said:

I have to ask, do you believe in prayer?

 

I think there are two valid perspectives which ultimately results in the same experience.

 

Firstly that you are god. Therefore there isn't anyone to pray to. You would be praying to yourself.

 

Secondly, that you are a function, servant of God, and you give up your persona to God.

 

In both you free yourself from suffering because you give up your false identity.

 

If you are on the second path I think it is perfectly valid.

 

As a side note, all thought forms help create reality, so good thoughts and prayers are always welcomed by the collective.

 

Personally speaking, I do pray. I repeat this multiple times every day.

 

"God (spirit or whatever you call it) Grant me the knowledge for your will for me and the power to carry it out"