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3 Questions for Christians....are you up for it?


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On 10/30/2023 at 10:40 AM, shabbirss said:

 

maybe i should not have posted in the first place lol,
seeing that your question is directed at christians specifically.

however the reason i posted is to highlight the patterns all around us in creation,
meaning something with a higher ability clearly designed it all
 

No. Fundamentally no. Pattern recognition and recurring patterns absolutely do not 'clearly' indicate a higher being has designed them. Your inability to determine the truth does not automatically mean 'God did it.' This is a weak recurring argument, not just from Christians but from many with belief in a higher being. not knowing does not therefore equal God.

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I am a nonbeliever in the strictest sense of the word. That means that I do not consider any word to be true. Gods, supernatural and the most modern version Alien. Whatever it is, it is certainly far superior to any human construct. Intelligent design is more than evident. And I know that it has no problem with what people imagine it to be. I understand it as the first ones as far as this construct is concerned. 

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3 hours ago, aesir22 said:

No. Fundamentally no. Pattern recognition and recurring patterns absolutely do not 'clearly' indicate a higher being has designed them. Your inability to determine the truth does not automatically mean 'God did it.' This is a weak recurring argument, not just from Christians but from many with belief in a higher being. not knowing does not therefore equal God.


if i wanted to dance with words
i would have asked my local librarian out.

 

 

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From your writing it seems like you are taking the bible literally, like it is an historical text....

 

It's a group of wisdom stories etc passed down through different traditions giving a different flavour dependent on geographical location...... the point of the stories is to try and point the seeker towards "truth"...

 

To answer your question.

 

1.I was born into a Christian family so was a Christian. 

 

2. The why question is a reflection of the limitations of mind. We have limited ways of experiencing which makes the world seem a certain way, time and space cause and effect. The why question is for a limited mind and not for god. The best answer we can give is out of love.

 

3. God does not punish people and god is not a person. This good and bad, sinners and saints was an early attempt to provide moral guidance so we didn't go around killing each other in the absence of proper legal and police services

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, pi3141 said:

a birds only defence is its ability to fly,

 

Have you ever been pecked by a psychotic hen? I have, and it's a pretty effective form of attack never mind defence.

 

The thing is, religion isn't really my usual area. The questions posed were merely my response to some Christian's who are under the illusion that they and only they have a biblical playbook which gives them an exclusive right to dictate morality, and if you're not in the "club" then you're not a moral person.

My gut feeling is that organised religions are a means of controlling the spiritual realm of our consciousness, and while I could be mistaken my gut feeling has never let me down yet.

Truth is I don't know what I am, other than a sense that I am more than a walking meat bag (or whatever the term used).

I do know that I have a close connection with nature, and believe that I always will in some form. To me nature is a continual cycle of birth/growth/decline/death/rebirth. 

Nothing "appears" or "disappears" in nature, it's a continuous recycling.

So if nothing appears and disappears in nature, and matter cannot be created nor destroyed (only transferred to another form), and likewise with energy, then why presume that consciousness is the exception and goes against the laws of nature and the universe? And if consciousness doesn't disappear on death then where does it go?

 

I know people have different theories and suggestions but that's as far as I've got.

Perhaps we are all different strands of the same consciousness?

Maybe our collective consciousness IS God, and religions are a means of suppressing and controlling by those who are aware of this knowledge?

Then again maybe God is sitting on his throne and thinking "Wait till this little fecker dies, boy is he in for a surprise!"

 

5 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Thats the point of life - to live.

Now this I can identify with.

 

5 hours ago, pi3141 said:

The meat suit is just the vehicle in this realm. It allows me to stand on this giant rock and stare out into infinity (at night) and experience what this universe looks and feels like in this body.

 

And this resonates with me as well.

 

Anyhoo....I'm off to lie down now as my brain hurts...

 

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6 minutes ago, Storm in the garden said:

Anyhoo....I'm off to lie down now as my brain hurts...

 

 

Lol!

 

Well you seem like a pretty advanced spiritual person.

 

My opinion, God loves Atheists- moral people who do not need superstition to scare them into being good are the highest expression of God's gift of free will.

 

I'm glad you love nature, that says more to me than believing any doctrine.

 

When I want to 'praise God' I go and feed the ducks.

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3 hours ago, Storm in the garden said:

 

 

So if nothing appears and disappears in nature, and matter cannot be created nor destroyed (only transferred to another form), and likewise with energy, then why presume that consciousness is the exception and goes against the laws of nature and the universe? And if consciousness doesn't disappear on death then where does it go?

 

 

Perhaps we are all different strands of the same consciousness?

Maybe our collective consciousness IS God, 

 

You should question what do these things appear and disappear in? What is your experience, do you experience consciousness first or objective experience first? Has anyone ever found objects outside of consciousness? The answer to these questions answers the first point.

 

The second part you are pretty much there..🙏

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15 hours ago, Storm in the garden said:

Nothing "appears" or "disappears" in nature, it's a continuous recycling.

So if nothing appears and disappears in nature, and matter cannot be created nor destroyed (only transferred to another form), and likewise with energy,

 

The big bang is an exception to this no-creation rule, and possibly Hawking radiation, tho I easily get out of my depth here. I've  got into some heated debates with my favourite AI chatbot about deep physics questions, which make my head spin 😉 . Like, if the universe is expanding, what's it expanding into? Do photons experience time as they're travelling at the speed of light? If photons have no mass, why are they affected by gravity? If nothing can escape a black hole, how does the gravitational force get past the event horizon? A lot of this boils down to the nature of space-time itself, and when I ask what space-time is made of it seems I've reached a limit to current scientific knowledge. Today I learned on wiki that space itself can travel faster than light, inside black holes, yet this is only another hypothetical idea. 

 

15 hours ago, Storm in the garden said:

then why presume that consciousness is the exception and goes against the laws of nature and the universe? And if consciousness doesn't disappear on death then where does it go?

 

It depends if consciousness is a separate entity or is part and parcel of what we call physical reality. I err on the side of panpsychism, that consciousness and materiality are two sides of the same coin and not separate. Therefore everything is conscious to a greater or lesser extent depending on its form. Human brains are very complex so have a developed consciousness. 

 

11 hours ago, Mr H said:

You should question what do these things appear and disappear in? What is your experience, do you experience consciousness first or objective experience first? Has anyone ever found objects outside of consciousness?

 

Imo these are one and the same, but our thinking splits the unity into two. I've never experienced pure consciousness without consciousness of something. Or vice-versa. In meditation the unity is sometimes revealed. 

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15 hours ago, Storm in the garden said:

I do know that I have a close connection with nature, and believe that I always will in some form. To me nature is a continual cycle of birth/growth/decline/death/rebirth. 

Nothing "appears" or "disappears" in nature, it's a continuous recycling.

So if nothing appears and disappears in nature, and matter cannot be created nor destroyed (only transferred to another form), and likewise with energy, then why presume that consciousness is the exception and goes against the laws of nature and the universe? And if consciousness doesn't disappear on death then where does it go?

 

I know people have different theories and suggestions but that's as far as I've got.

Perhaps we are all different strands of the same consciousness?

Maybe our collective consciousness IS God, and religions are a means of suppressing and controlling by those who are aware of this knowledge?

 

12 hours ago, Mr H said:

You should question what do these things appear and disappear in? What is your experience, do you experience consciousness first or objective experience first? Has anyone ever found objects outside of consciousness? The answer to these questions answers the first point.

 

The second part you are pretty much there..🙏

 

 

I'd like to jump in, I am in accord with Mr H, and like I said you seem pretty spiritually advanced even though you may no realise it.

 

Nature is a continuous cycle, the death and barrenness we see is not eternal in nature it regenerates.

 

In Physics energy can not be created or destroyed, only transformed. We know that our brains work with Electrical impulses, this is Energy, hence where does that energy go when we die. The only logical answer is that either it transforms into heat and dissipates into the environment or the electrical energy remains.

 

Electrical energy always has a magnetic component in this realm at least and Magnetism can be used for memory storage. So to me, the idea that this energy 'lives on' and takes with it memories from the being that created the energy signature is not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

Where does it go? I suggest as we are basically unique energy vibrations contained in physical, organic body, when the body dies and then decays our energy is released into the environment and our place will be dictated by the energy frequency we have generated through life experiences.

 

I believe in Cremation I think it releases the Soul quicker.

 

An analogy, a Helium balloon will rise to match the atmospheric condition that equals its internal atmospheric condition. It will rise until the pressure outside and inside is the same, in electrical terms, it will find its resonance. Hence the number of 'Heavens' may be infinite.

 

Your energy signature at death will be at a certain 'frequency' (there's another term for it in the Spiritual Realm - frequency is a human term) and on release it will rise to the 'Heaven' or 'Resonant space' that your signature matches.

 

This is Automatic - you do NOT need a Church for this process to happen - its nature.

 

Thus as we are all electrical energy we are all the same and as God can only be an intelligent energy field, we must be part of God. How else do you explain phrases like, God is Eternal, God is Everywhere, if God were a corporeal being like described in the Bible, walking with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden - how can he be everywhere at once and how can he be watching every creature in the Universe to judge it?

 

The conclusion is we are energy, we are all one, and we are all a part of God's energy.

 

When you die - you judge yourself.

 

Your conscience will be your judge - and there's no escaping that.

 

So when we die our energy returns to the energy field from where it sprung - some call that the Source others call it God.

 

And therefore we are all God, everything contains a part of God.

 

You can say the Universe is our God, it created us, created the environment for life and furnishes us with all we need to live.

 

I can accept that, with the addition that the Universe is itself, alive, conscious at some level, and intelligent.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Campion said:

 

 

 

 

Imo these are one and the same, but our thinking splits the unity into two. I've never experienced pure consciousness without consciousness of something. Or vice-versa. In meditation the unity is sometimes revealed. 

 

Duality is a quality pertaining to mind not to consciousness.

 

If I asked you what is the stuff the object you are seeing is made of in your experience? And we would have to conclude it is pure knowing. Otherwise how would you be aware of it? Pure knowing being synonymous with consciousness.

 

It is our primary experience but is overlooked because for most it is boring and our culture promotes shiny objects.

 

If I asked you now are you aware? I'm sure you would say immediately without hesitation, yes. That experience where you go to get the answer is consciousness prior to form

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3 minutes ago, Mr H said:

 

Duality is a quality pertaining to mind not to consciousness.

 

If I asked you what is the stuff the object you are seeing is made of in your experience? And we would have to conclude it is pure knowing. Otherwise how would you be aware of it? Pure knowing being synonymous with consciousness.

 

It is our primary experience but is overlooked because for most it is boring and our culture promotes shiny objects.

 

If I asked you now are you aware? I'm sure you would say immediately without hesitation, yes. That experience where you go to get the answer is consciousness prior to form

Addition. This is why most people are never enlightened because they do all these spiritual practices, with a goal of achieving some marvelous state of mind, or think they will have the powers of Jesus.

 

Enlightenment, the recognition of our own being, is the opposite. It's the most ordinary, unsexy and common experience we experience. That's why we are creators. It's kind of more exciting. But you need to also know and remember where the home is, because that's where eternal peace lives

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1 hour ago, Campion said:

The big bang is an exception to this no-creation rule, and possibly Hawking radiation, tho I easily get out of my depth here. I've  got into some heated debates with my favourite AI chatbot about deep physics questions, which make my head spin 😉 . Like, if the universe is expanding, what's it expanding into? Do photons experience time as they're travelling at the speed of light? If photons have no mass, why are they affected by gravity? If nothing can escape a black hole, how does the gravitational force get past the event horizon? A lot of this boils down to the nature of space-time itself, and when I ask what space-time is made of it seems I've reached a limit to current scientific knowledge. Today I learned on wiki that space itself can travel faster than light, inside black holes, yet this is only another hypothetical idea. 

 

 

 

Exactly, now, if there is one illogical fact in the theory then it throws the entire theory out in my mind.

 

A single truth can topple a mountain of lies.

 

I can accept the Big Bang only as a localised event.

 

To return to your point, what is the Universe expanding into - hence there must be 'something' at the edge of our expanding universe - a space, an area for the universe to be creeping into. Now where did that 'space' come from? Was it already there or does it get created as the universe expands, if so, whats it being created out of - it goes on doesn't it - its a logical fallacy - it cannot be.

 

Hence the idea that before the Big Bang 'Nothing' existed, not even the space to contain the Universe - how can this be? Because if there was no space for the Universe to expand into we have no Universe and we're back to the concept of can 'nothing' exist?

 

Can there be a state where the Universe itself and all the supposed space does not exist - no existence of anything, is that possible?

 

This point is what I call a 'stumbling block' there are many both in Science and Religion and it takes 'blind faith' to get over the stumbling block. By accepting something that is completely illogical because 'everyone else does' or 'if you don't accept this point you cannot be a Christian or a Physicist' it causes Cognitive Dissonance with the person.

 

This is Brainwashing, programming, call it what you will but it is subtly changing a persons perception to conform to a majority belief. And at this point it is nothing more than a belief. But once the threshold is crossed and a person simply accepts something they don't understand to conform or join a group then they have become programmed into that culture or groupthink.

 

This is the basis of the true 'Control System' If a young student goes to a college to learn Physics and tells the teacher they don't understand or see how its possible for what is being taught to be true, the teacher will tell the young student he's spent 20 or 30 years teaching the theory and No one has ever questioned it before and all the greatest minds agree and if the student doesn't, he has no business being a Physicist. The other students will laugh, the student will feel embarrassed and not wanting to give up on his dream, will conform.

 

Thus the establishment is established and all those on the course take on the beliefs of the institution. Any doubts are covered with 'I must not understand' and because they have so much invested in the institution they will not divert from the establishment.

 

This is how the system works, its subtle, self managing. It works because 'They' have written the rules to the game and convinced everyone to play by their rules. The system is not questioned because so much effort has been put into it and everyone agrees its probably the best there could be so if there are problems, there only small and don't affect the majority and so we trundle on, playing their game.

 

Herd mentality and control the rules to the game, everything else works itself out due to the individuals persistence of conformity and creativity in playing the game by the rules.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

 

 

 

I'd like to jump in, I am in accord with Mr H, and like I said you seem pretty spiritually advanced even though you may no realise it.

 

Nature is a continuous cycle, the death and barrenness we see is not eternal in nature it regenerates.

 

In Physics energy can not be created or destroyed, only transformed. We know that our brains work with Electrical impulses, this is Energy, hence where does that energy go when we die. The only logical answer is that either it transforms into heat and dissipates into the environment or the electrical energy remains.

 

Electrical energy always has a magnetic component in this realm at least and Magnetism can be used for memory storage. So to me, the idea that this energy 'lives on' and takes with it memories from the being that created the energy signature is not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

Where does it go? I suggest as we are basically unique energy vibrations contained in physical, organic body, when the body dies and then decays our energy is released into the environment and our place will be dictated by the energy frequency we have generated through life experiences.

 

I believe in Cremation I think it releases the Soul quicker.

 

An analogy, a Helium balloon will rise to match the atmospheric condition that equals its internal atmospheric condition. It will rise until the pressure outside and inside is the same, in electrical terms, it will find its resonance. Hence the number of 'Heavens' may be infinite.

 

Your energy signature at death will be at a certain 'frequency' (there's another term for it in the Spiritual Realm - frequency is a human term) and on release it will rise to the 'Heaven' or 'Resonant space' that your signature matches.

 

This is Automatic - you do NOT need a Church for this process to happen - its nature.

 

Thus as we are all electrical energy we are all the same and as God can only be an intelligent energy field, we must be part of God. How else do you explain phrases like, God is Eternal, God is Everywhere, if God were a corporeal being like described in the Bible, walking with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden - how can he be everywhere at once and how can he be watching every creature in the Universe to judge it?

 

The conclusion is we are energy, we are all one, and we are all a part of God's energy.

 

When you die - you judge yourself.

 

Your conscience will be your judge - and there's no escaping that.

 

So when we die our energy returns to the energy field from where it sprung - some call that the Source others call it God.

 

And therefore we are all God, everything contains a part of God.

 

You can say the Universe is our God, it created us, created the environment for life and furnishes us with all we need to live.

 

I can accept that, with the addition that the Universe is itself, alive, conscious at some level, and intelligent.

 

 

 

 

These descriptions of laws of physics and nature are accurate to describe the illusiory world. But we don't really experience these things as they seem. We live in a world of mind. Which appears to us as matter with all it's laws. 

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1 minute ago, pi3141 said:

 

 

Exactly, now, if there is one illogical fact in the theory then it throws the entire theory out in my mind.

 

A single truth can topple a mountain of lies.

 

I can accept the Big Bang only as a localised event.

 

To return to your point, what is the Universe expanding into - hence there must be 'something' at the edge of our expanding universe - a space, an area for the universe to be creeping into. Now where did that 'space' come from? Was it already there or does it get created as the universe expands, if so, whats it being created out of - it goes on doesn't it - its a logical fallacy - it cannot be.

 

Hence the idea that before the Big Bang 'Nothing' existed, not even the space to contain the Universe - how can this be? Because if there was no space for the Universe to expand into we have no Universe and we're back to the concept of can 'nothing' exist?

 

Can there be a state where the Universe itself and all the supposed space does not exist - no existence of anything, is that possible?

 

 

The belief that there is cause and effect is simply a belief, imposed by the limitations of human mind. There need not be a why, cause and effect, time and space, just isness.

 

Yes you experience that state in deep sleep every night. 

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I'd like to add another example. Hypothetical but it has happened, a Policeman makes an arrest, he's convinced he's got the right man. The case goes to Court, but before it does some evidence comes to light that throws doubt on the arrest.

 

What does the Policeman do?

 

He might be tempted to bury the evidence and let the case go ahead. This may be for several reasons, its a high profile case, the Policeman himself is personally convinced of guilt, he may be embarrassed to turn up an court and say his arrest is unsafe. He has a mortgage, a wife, commitments, he needs his job and he wants promotion and if the accused has previous convictions then the guys a toerag and deserves to be taken off the street.

 

So you see, it may not be because he's a Freemason or Crypto Jew or serves Satan, its just human conditions that can force a person to act in certain ways.

 

But in this instance, and its been done many times, a Policeman, sworn to uphold the Law of the Land, will sometimes break it, because he believes he is morally right to do so, or maybe he's really just a nasty person and doesn't care much - either way, the system works or performs as the controllers want.

 

Religion is the same.

 

Edit: And now we have Common Purpose, an organization actively teaching Police and others to 'step outside' of their usual constraints and act in a way that is in the best interest even if it does not conform with their expected role. Dangerous shit that.

Edited by pi3141
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TWO Met cops have been sacked after footage showed an Olympic sprinter being arrested with his Team GB partner in front of their baby son.

The officers were seen in the shocking bodycam clip surrounding Ricardo Dos Santos' Mercedes near his home in West London.

 

Link - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24519167/met-police-guilty-misconduct-arrest-team-gb-athlete/

 

Did everyone see this? What happened - the Police 'staged' a situation where they made a false claim to allow them to stop these people in their belief that when they did they would find what they accused the couple of.

 

But they didn't.

 

The couple were innocent.

 

So what happened, officers of the law, sworn to uphold the law, abused their position and tried to bend the law to get a result, to further their careers.

 

Did Satan tell them to do it?

 

Did the Grandmaster Freemason hold a meeting and informed all Masonic Brothers to go out and harass and break the law?

 

No.

 

They did it themselves because they thought they were morally right to do it.

 

This is the system.

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On 10/26/2023 at 11:26 PM, Storm in the garden said:

Before I ask the 3 questions I'll give a little of my background. I was born into a Christian family, became an Atheist in my teens and in my latter years I have become spiritual but with no connection to any religion. Right let's start...

Q1. Why are you a Christian? Did some spiritual light bulb switch on in your head, or is it because you......Were born in a Christian country, Had Christian parents, Attended a Christian school, Lived in a Christian society and were brought to Christian ceremonies at an impressionable age?

It seems to me that the geographical location of your upbringing plays a huge part in determining your religion, and you just happened to be in the right place at the right time to find the one true religion, because had you been born in Pakistan for example you would most likely not be a Christian.

So it appears that your Christianity is either determined by luck or divine intervention, and God chose you to be born into a Christian household.

In other words your salvation is either determined by a lottery or by cheating, which means either way that it's out of your hands. So will your God punish you for something you had no control over? 

 

Q2. If God created the universe.....then why?

I mean, if you are his chosen people and you only represent a portion of the worlds population why create the universe? All he required was the earth and the sun (and maybe the moon for tidal effect). He might even throw in Mars and Saturn and a few other planets for a bit of color but......Two trillion galaxies with around 100 billion stars in each seems a bit like overkill?

Now you might believe that those astronomers are making these numbers up, but if you go out on a clear night in the wilderness you're going to see hundreds if not thousands of stars.

Magnify it with binoculars and you can see hundreds more, and with a telescope more etc. so you can see with your own eyes that there are at least many thousands.

I can never understand why people need a God to explain the existence of the universe. "God is eternal and He created the universe".

Why not just skip the middle man and accept that the universe is eternal?

 

Q3. Now before I ask the question I'm going to give you a little story....

So you're sitting on a park bench one day and a man sits down beside you. You start talking and the conversation comes round to families, with him telling you he has five children ranging in ages from 5 to 25. He tells you that he loves all his children dearly. However, he also tells you that he demands that they honor, obey and worship him, and if they don't he will punish them severely. I don't know about you but as a father myself I would consider this man to be deranged and would fear for his children.

So if it's not proper parental behavior for a mere  mortal, why is it an acceptable way for a divine being to treat his 'children'?

He's all powerful, all knowing and all wise...yet he demands to be worshipped. Is God a narcissist with a fragile ego, or does it sound more like human traits being given to a supreme being by humans when writing a book? And speaking about the bible, why do Christians need to follow a book to be a decent human being, and why do so many of them presume their book gives them a monopoly on morality? It doesn't.

 

There are so many other questions I could ask such as:

Why worship an apparently narcissistic God who makes up 10 commandments with the first three being all about Him?

Why is there no mention of slavery in those commandments when it was rampant at the time?

And why write 10 commandments when all you need is one..."Be a decent human being". This covers all bases apart from the first 3, and if there really is a God he wouldn't need his ego massaged by mere mortals anyway. He'd have better things to do.

 


 

Grown up in England surrounded by different Christian churches and groups etc, but not a practicing Christian myself. 
Because of the amount of military bases in the area a lot of the Christian churches have American connections/influences like this crazy baptist group that’s around here, real Midsommar type stuff. 
 


Why did god create the universe?

 

Firstly, you’d have to define what you mean by ‘God’ and ‘universe’.


My understanding is that an original energy source (god) needed to know itself so it created as many things as possible (universe(s)) to know itself. 


That’s the universe we all perceive taken care of, but what about Gods own universe? Is it the same as ours? If we can perceive god and presumably god can perceive us, then it stands to reason that we really do share the same headspace (therefore universe) as the being that created all this, meaning there’s a high chance we were also created by this being, and infact actually are this being. 

 

The problem started when humanity got split up and the different languages got used, so names were changed and interpretations became skewed, which is why every orthodox religious person will state that their god is the one true god, but essentially it’s all the same thing. 
Maybe. Hopefully. 

 

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I only asked three basic questions about Christianity.....

 

And now I feel like I'm behind that bookcase in Interstellar wondering WTF is going on.....and don't even have TARS to help me 🥴

 

But seeing as yer all so clever and wise, I've got three more questions for ye....

 

Q1 Science. If nothing can escape an event horizon......how did the people at Woodstock get home?

And if nothing can escape a black hole......how do ravens poop?

 

Q2 Politics. Can a commis chef be a fascist?

 

Q3 Social. Can an old age pensioner be a new age traveller?

 

These are the real imponderables of life, so please pin all answers to THAT wall, the one that signals the end of the universe (north east side)

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2 hours ago, Mr H said:

I asked you what is the stuff the object you are seeing is made of in your experience? And we would have to conclude it is pure knowing. Otherwise how would you be aware of it? Pure knowing being synonymous with consciousness.

 

"object you are seeing" is itself a dualistic thought (object/subject) which imo is secondary to the primary moment of pure awareness or pure being. Perhaps that's what you mean, but these things get distorted when put into words. 

 

"That experience where you go to get the answer is consciousness prior to form"  Well put. 

 

When you say 'pure knowing' does this mean you've got to the ground of reality and can't carry on with, "what is knowing made of?" There's a danger here of slipping into solipsism because some of the objects I can see are other people, and I can't go down the rabbit hole of believing my knowing is more pure than someone else's! I used to belong to another forum which went in that direction and it wasn't pretty. 

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4 minutes ago, Campion said:

 

"object you are seeing" is itself a dualistic thought (object/subject) which imo is secondary to the primary moment of pure awareness or pure being. Perhaps that's what you mean, but these things get distorted when put into words. 

 

When you say 'pure knowing' does this mean you've got to the ground of reality and can't carry on with, "what is knowing made of?" There's a danger here of slipping into solipsism because some of the objects I can see are other people, and I can't go down the rabbit hole of believing my knowing is more pure than someone else's! I used to belong to another forum which went in that direction and it wasn't pretty. 

Yes the first one is what I meant 😁

 

No one has their own knowing. There are no people to have such a thing. There is only knowing or consciousness as far as we can deduct. There is only I.

 

This I. Then vibrates and created seemingly, a multiplicity of separate minds within which to view experience, because you could not view everything from one mind alone, it would be a big blur. Why it has created several minds to fully experience itself. 

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Not an expert on solipsism but my understanding is that they believe "my mind" is real and everyone else is an imagination in "my mind", which is different to the above explanation... we are all imaginations of the one true mind. No one individuals whose is real or more real than others.

Edited by Mr H
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13 minutes ago, Storm in the garden said:

I only asked three basic questions about Christianity.....

 

And now I feel like I'm behind that bookcase in Interstellar wondering WTF is going on.....and don't even have TARS to help me 🥴

 

But seeing as yer all so clever and wise, I've got three more questions for ye....

 

Q1 Science. If nothing can escape an event horizon......how did the people at Woodstock get home?

And if nothing can escape a black hole......how do ravens poop?

 

Q2 Politics. Can a commis chef be a fascist?

 

Q3 Social. Can an old age pensioner be a new age traveller?

 

These are the real imponderables of life, so please pin all answers to THAT wall, the one that signals the end of the universe (north east side)

 

Point taken, sorry. I guess I got carried away by the subject of the creation of the universe. At one time I used to call myself an atheist, but pantheist covers it better now. God is the whole of reality which doesn't have to be a personal thing. 

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15 minutes ago, Mr H said:

Not an expert on solipsism but my understanding is that they believe "my mind" is real and everyone else is an imagination in "my mind", which is different to the above explanation... we are all imaginations of the one true mind. No one individuals whose is real or more real than others.

 

Yes, in other words solipsism can be true from God's infinite pov but not little me. Unless I'm saying I have achieved the highest enlightenment and become one with God, which I don't. 

Edited by Campion
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1 hour ago, LastOneLeftInTheCounty said:


Why did god create the universe?

 

Firstly, you’d have to define what you mean by ‘God’ and ‘universe’.


My understanding is that an original energy source (god) needed to know itself so it created as many things as possible (universe(s)) to know itself. 


That’s the universe we all perceive taken care of, but what about Gods own universe? Is it the same as ours? 

 

No universe was created.

A limited realm of becoming was separated.

It did not have to divide into innumerable parts. It is an unknown expression of existence itself. It also needs to know nothing. Is controls reality itself.

There is only one reality. And it has nothing to do with dimensions either. It seems that the human form was given only very limited perception. It is not the problem of this intelligence that humans thought they could create their own dream world and that their definitions correspond to those of this intelligence.

 

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