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3 Questions for Christians....are you up for it?


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Before I ask the 3 questions I'll give a little of my background. I was born into a Christian family, became an Atheist in my teens and in my latter years I have become spiritual but with no connection to any religion. Right let's start...

Q1. Why are you a Christian? Did some spiritual light bulb switch on in your head, or is it because you......Were born in a Christian country, Had Christian parents, Attended a Christian school, Lived in a Christian society and were brought to Christian ceremonies at an impressionable age?

It seems to me that the geographical location of your upbringing plays a huge part in determining your religion, and you just happened to be in the right place at the right time to find the one true religion, because had you been born in Pakistan for example you would most likely not be a Christian.

So it appears that your Christianity is either determined by luck or divine intervention, and God chose you to be born into a Christian household.

In other words your salvation is either determined by a lottery or by cheating, which means either way that it's out of your hands. So will your God punish you for something you had no control over? 

 

Q2. If God created the universe.....then why?

I mean, if you are his chosen people and you only represent a portion of the worlds population why create the universe? All he required was the earth and the sun (and maybe the moon for tidal effect). He might even throw in Mars and Saturn and a few other planets for a bit of color but......Two trillion galaxies with around 100 billion stars in each seems a bit like overkill?

Now you might believe that those astronomers are making these numbers up, but if you go out on a clear night in the wilderness you're going to see hundreds if not thousands of stars.

Magnify it with binoculars and you can see hundreds more, and with a telescope more etc. so you can see with your own eyes that there are at least many thousands.

I can never understand why people need a God to explain the existence of the universe. "God is eternal and He created the universe".

Why not just skip the middle man and accept that the universe is eternal?

 

Q3. Now before I ask the question I'm going to give you a little story....

So you're sitting on a park bench one day and a man sits down beside you. You start talking and the conversation comes round to families, with him telling you he has five children ranging in ages from 5 to 25. He tells you that he loves all his children dearly. However, he also tells you that he demands that they honor, obey and worship him, and if they don't he will punish them severely. I don't know about you but as a father myself I would consider this man to be deranged and would fear for his children.

So if it's not proper parental behavior for a mere  mortal, why is it an acceptable way for a divine being to treat his 'children'?

He's all powerful, all knowing and all wise...yet he demands to be worshipped. Is God a narcissist with a fragile ego, or does it sound more like human traits being given to a supreme being by humans when writing a book? And speaking about the bible, why do Christians need to follow a book to be a decent human being, and why do so many of them presume their book gives them a monopoly on morality? It doesn't.

 

There are so many other questions I could ask such as:

Why worship an apparently narcissistic God who makes up 10 commandments with the first three being all about Him?

Why is there no mention of slavery in those commandments when it was rampant at the time?

And why write 10 commandments when all you need is one..."Be a decent human being". This covers all bases apart from the first 3, and if there really is a God he wouldn't need his ego massaged by mere mortals anyway. He'd have better things to do.

 

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Non believer here.

No one told Humans to worship it. Or to distort it. Everything that was written in words was created by humans. No human approach to explanation can merely put a pattern into context. All answers are within yourself. Language not required..

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18 hours ago, Storm in the garden said:

... Lived in a Christian society ...

 

Intellectually, philosophically, rationally, yes you raise some worthwhile points. But although I didn't like it when Christianity had a lot of influence in society (in my childhood a long time ago now), a question comes right back at you: what do you replace organised religion with apart from the kind of big, controlling, micromanaging government which we've ended up with now? 

 

Where I live there's still some churches which do a lot of good community work with no questions asked about what you believe. Events for children & families, the elderly and disabled, food banks etc. The religious believers seem more motivated to do voluntary work like that.  

 

Sure there are secular charities doing good work too, but imo we are heading into unknown territory by becoming ever more secular and self centered, will there be volunteers in future or will everyone need to be paid for and regulated by government? 

 

I have been along to some atheist and humanist groups too, they didn't do much community work either. Come to think of it, neither do the newer spiritual movements in the West like Buddhists and New Agers. Although I'm willing to be corrected on that if anyone can show me how they're doing more than just individual spiritual development. 

 

Edit ... As another example, how many homeless people do you see from highly religious immigrants like muslims, sikhs, hindus etc? They look after their own, although I'll admit there's a price to pay in terms of conformity. 

Edited by Campion
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Why am I not surprised?

I was subscribed to a couple of youtube channels where the Christian creators had a similar outlook to mine regarding "medical interventions" and financial corruption.

However both became more and more obsessed with "pushing the biblical narrative" and pushing the idea that if you don't have a Christian belief system then you're lacking a moral compass.

I countered this and suggested that you don't need a book of rules in order to have morality, then asked them a few questions.

Both blanked me.

I find it strange that people are willing to live their lives by a certain criteria, actively promote that criteria yet refuse to answer any probing questions about it?

If recent history has taught us anything it's that we should question everything, media, government, the medical profession, the financial institution, the education system......and yes organized religion?

 

So I came here, thinking that an Icke forum would be more willing to explore and discuss, but obviously not?

I know Christians have viewed the post, because the only likes are for "shabbiris" who posted a picture with the word "God" in it??? Wow!

Sorry shabbiris, you didn't answer any of the questions I posed and simply plucked a few images from the web which mean nothing and have no relevance.

Actually some of it is pretty weird. Celery looks like bones and a sliced mushroom looks like an ear? So what?

Is the conclusion that some things look similar so God must have made them? 

 

I've no issue with any religion so long as people don't try and push it on others and it doesn't result in conflict and hatred.

Unfortunately that is seldom the case.

 

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14 minutes ago, Storm in the garden said:

Why am I not surprised?

I was subscribed to a couple of youtube channels where the Christian creators had a similar outlook to mine regarding "medical interventions" and financial corruption.

However both became more and more obsessed with "pushing the biblical narrative" and pushing the idea that if you don't have a Christian belief system then you're lacking a moral compass.

I countered this and suggested that you don't need a book of rules in order to have morality, then asked them a few questions.

Both blanked me.

I find it strange that people are willing to live their lives by a certain criteria, actively promote that criteria yet refuse to answer any probing questions about it?

If recent history has taught us anything it's that we should question everything, media, government, the medical profession, the financial institution, the education system......and yes organized religion?

 

So I came here, thinking that an Icke forum would be more willing to explore and discuss, but obviously not?

I know Christians have viewed the post, because the only likes are for "shabbiris" who posted a picture with the word "God" in it??? Wow!

Sorry shabbiris, you didn't answer any of the questions I posed and simply plucked a few images from the web which mean nothing and have no relevance.

Actually some of it is pretty weird. Celery looks like bones and a sliced mushroom looks like an ear? So what?

Is the conclusion that some things look similar so God must have made them? 

 

I've no issue with any religion so long as people don't try and push it on others and it doesn't result in conflict and hatred.

Unfortunately that is seldom the case.

 

 

maybe i should not have posted in the first place lol,
seeing that your question is directed at christians specifically.

however the reason i posted is to highlight the patterns all around us in creation,
meaning something with a higher ability clearly designed it all
 

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On 10/27/2023 at 5:27 PM, Campion said:

, a question comes right back at you: what do you replace organised religion with apart from the kind of big, controlling, micromanaging government which we've ended up with now? 

 

Well absolutely not government!! They are the ones who create all the problems.

I agree that some religious institutions do some good work but so do some non religious groups, at least where I live anyway.

I think the key word is empathy, and empathy is something which cannot be taught and you either have it or you don't.

Religious groups are an active part of a community, and community is where you can identify the problems in society and therefore act empathically towards those in need.

However perhaps some volunteers in those religious groups are not there because they are empathetic but there to gain 'brownie points' in the community?

So really a tight knit community with some empathetic members will deal with the issue without a need for government or religion?

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, shabbirss said:

maybe i should not have posted in the first place lol,
seeing that your question is directed at christians specifically.

however the reason i posted is to highlight the patterns all around us in creation,
meaning something with a higher ability clearly designed it all

 

Well the only reason I directed the questions at Christians is because I was born into a Christian family and raised as a Christian so I know a little about that faith?

I live in natural surroundings so I see patterns in nature every day, however I don't attribute it to a 'higher ability'.

Why not just attribute it to evolution? These are the patterns that work in this particular environment so these are the plants that survive?

Trillions of other plants may have had different structures but over millennia have become extinct.

Plants need water, so in order to give the best possibility of finding water the most successful method is to spread out in every direction = roots.

Plants need sunlight so to give the best chance of catching rays is to spread out in every direction, until it recognises the suns path then leans in that direction.

Did a higher being "design" giraffes, or is it a possibility that...

"According to the known swath of fossil giraffes, significant neck elongation began around 14 million years ago during the Late Miocene – after the lineage to which the relatively short-necked okapi split off – and by about 5 million years ago giraffes of modern proportions had evolved"

 

....it took them around 9 million years to get their act together, each generation stretching a millimetre more to reach those juicy leaves ?

While we don't know any of this with complete certainty, is it more likely that...

a) Over countless millions of years natural selection and evolution through trial and error has resulted in what we see around us today, or...

b) A 'supreme being' with a sharp pencil sat down at a draughtboard and sketched out everything from carrots root system to carnivores teeth structure? 

Hmm..I think I'll go with a)

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6 hours ago, Storm in the garden said:

I think the key word is empathy, and empathy is something which cannot be taught and you either have it or you don't.

 

Yes that's important, perhaps it can be passed on through good parenting and love received in childhood. 

 

6 hours ago, Storm in the garden said:

However perhaps some volunteers in those religious groups are not there because they are empathetic but there to gain 'brownie points' in the community?

 

Undoubtedly. Knowing people's true motives is hard isn't it. 

 

6 hours ago, Storm in the garden said:

So really a tight knit community with some empathetic members will deal with the issue without a need for government or religion?

 

This is the crux of it, but how? Our overlords have been going full tilt towards mass immigration and multiculturalism to fragment society, then blaming us for not all getting along. Those who belong to a religion have a ready-made community. Rich people can just buy what they need. But poor community-less folks have little option but to rely on government. I don't have easy answers starting from where we're at now. I have a mixed relationship with religion myself: when I belong to one I notice all its problems, when I don't belong I miss the camaraderie. 

Edited by Campion
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On 10/26/2023 at 11:26 PM, Storm in the garden said:

Before I ask the 3 questions I'll give a little of my background. I was born into a Christian family, became an Atheist in my teens and in my latter years I have become spiritual but with no connection to any religion. Right let's start...

 

Well I don't consider myself a Christian but I do follow the teachings of the one they call The Christ, and Buddha and probably some Hinduism as well!

 

But I to was raised in an informal Christian family, attended Church, Church Camp and Holidays, did a bit of Sunday school etc and of course RE in secondary school. Read some of the Bible - Genesis, Revelations and a couple of Gospels.

 

After that I kind of left it alone for a good number of years - until I had children in fact. One day I was putting my eldest daughter to bed, she was 6 or 7, and she burst into tears, she said she didn't want to go to Hell.

 

Apparently the Reverend had been into assembly that morning and warned all the kids that if they were bad they would go to Hell. Of course there would have been at least a dozen or so teachers there all nodding along in agreement. So its a powerful indoctrination - those teachers are employees of the Government and the school is the place of education for the kids, so if the teachers are agreeing wit the Reverend who's specifically been invited in, as I say, thats powerful indoctrination.

 

And so began my own journey to formulate my beliefs in order to be able to explain them to my children.

 

Trouble is, what was my beliefs?

 

I knew what they were, I've always known I had a soul, always known there were spirits, assumed there must be a Heaven sort of place for the spirits to dwell, ergo there must be a God. I believe in Magic, I've seen it for myself.

 

So I started reading, and in my view, uncovering what Christianity was, and now I consider myself pretty well informed but far, far from expert. I don't read Latin, nor ancient Greek or Hebrew. So my knowledge is built on the backs of others who have studied the texts in those languages to find the true meaning and origin of Scripture. (See I know all the Lingo!)

 

So that was my introduction and it seems I have answered your first question.

 

Question 2 - Why. Well sorry but I may seem to trivialise or such but actually we could easily as 'Why not?' You see this calls upon the very existence of a reality, why, well if this wasn't here what would be here? If we accept that some form of 'Reality' exists then we must fill it with something, so why should a reality exist? Because if there was no reality, there would be nothing and can nothing really exist? I mean if I had nothing, what would I contain it in? Do you remember the childish reasoning - what’s at the end of the universe, if its a brick wall, what’s on the other side? So you see to begin to question why create a universe you have to delve into the idea of reality and non reality or absolute nothing.

 

So that leads me nicely on to the Big Bang theory - I love to pick holes in the Atheist beliefs. So according to science, 14 Billion years ago there was 'Nothing' nothing existed, not even time. So I ask, 'for how long was the universe in this state?' and the answer is Time did not exist so you can't measure how long.

 

Then a Big Bang in which the entire universe and all the energy in it was created - out of nothing, so I point out that you can't get something out of nothing and a system only contains the energy already existent in it so if there was nothing then there was no energy and no explosion. So they invoke 'Special Relativity' Just before the Big Bang the Universe entered a state of 'Special Relativity' where the Laws of Physics as we know and explain the Universe were suspended, allowing for the impossible to be possible and then instantaneously reverting back to normal relativity for the rest of the duration.

 

Sorry but I find this all bollocks - probably more logical to say 'God did it!'

 

So the Why is a difficult question but also probably as simple as why not because if it wasn't then what would? How can there be nothing?

 

But yeah to answer fully some Fundamentalists and others do not believe in the Universe as Astronomers tell us and I can't argue for their stupidity.

 

Question 3 - I love this one - this where I get to tout my beliefs - God is not a Narcissist, God does not require 'worship' there is no 'Hell' no eternal punishments, Satan is a Christian fiction. Sure there are bad spirits but the idea of Satan as chief ruler presiding over all the souls trapped in Hell is a Christian fabrication which has no basis in Scripture and the idea of praying or worshipping God in a Church or Temple is specifically stated in the Bible as the actions of Hypocrites!

 

There is no Day more Holy than the other, no Place more Holy than your own Heart and no need for special ceremonies to connect you to God. This is child play, Pagan derived child’s understanding of religion.

 

The word Hell appears 30 odd times in the Latin Vulgate translated into English and in every occasion the (Except 1 I've found, still looking into) the original word in the original scriptures were Sheol or Hades or Death or something else, like Tartarus. There is no Hell. It is a Christian fallacy, designed to scare people into being moral – and that’s what I contest about Christianity, they use lies and false beliefs to indoctrinate by fear and they get very wealthy on the back of it. This is not spirituality, this is not the true religion.

 

You are absolutely correct in your interpretation that as a Father I do not require my children to thank me for bringing them into the world and if they disobeyed me I would not want to see them Burn for an eternity - nor does God. The Christian God does but that God does not represent the true God. imo.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Macnamara said:

what about the lower astral realm?

 

There are many rooms in the mansion but no Hell as described by mainstream Christianity.

 

I guess Sheol could be viewed as a lower astral realm, the Jews describe it as a fiery place where souls are purified.

 

My personal view is our place in the next life will fit our deeds in this life and if some must suffer a 'Hell' to atone then a place can be found for them.

 

I don't view the spiritual realm as fixed, I think it changes.

 

Thus if Special place is required for a soul, then it will be created. On the other side everything is thought and you can create what you will. So if a person needs a different realm to handle their rehabilitation, one will be created for them for their duration, for eternity if needed. But the punishments fit the crime and the experience will be tailored to correct the error and the lesson will be learned. Otherwise you go nowhere which means there are souls trapped in a state and dimension if you like that they cannot escape.

 

I think another type of Hell is being unable to leave this realm and not cross completely into the next. Stuck souls who wander until they are released.

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8 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

There are many rooms in the mansion but no Hell as described by mainstream Christianity.

 

Thanks, I wasn't sure if hell is a Biblical concept. The word itself derives from the Nordic pagan 'Hel' which is both the goddess of the afterlife for non-warriors, and her realm where most of us go after death (apart from warriors who die in battle, who go to Valhalla). And as far as I can see, both hel and -halla are connected to the English word hall. So Mac's suggestion of the lower astral realm makes sense, as a modern equivalent of the pagan hel. It also figures that the early Christian church would want to demonise the pagan beliefs, but keep the language, to more easily convert them. 

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19 minutes ago, Campion said:

 So Mac's suggestion of the lower astral realm makes sense, as a modern equivalent of the pagan hel. It also figures that the early Christian church would want to demonise the pagan beliefs, but keep the language, to more easily convert them. 

 

I think that's correct.

 

In the Bible the words translated to Hell are mostly Pagan - Tartarus and Hades. So yes I think they kept the language so as not to confuse and more easily convert.

 

That there are 'lower realms' as well as many 'Heavens' is logical and consistent to my mind.

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3 hours ago, pi3141 said:

So that leads me nicely on to the Big Bang theory - I love to pick holes in the Atheist beliefs. So according to science, 14 Billion years ago there was 'Nothing' nothing existed, not even time. So I ask, 'for how long was the universe in this state?' and the answer is Time did not exist so you can't measure how long.

 

Then a Big Bang in which the entire universe and all the energy in it was created - out of nothing, so I point out that you can't get something out of nothing and a system only contains the energy already existent in it so if there was nothing then there was no energy and no explosion. So they invoke 'Special Relativity' Just before the Big Bang the Universe entered a state of 'Special Relativity' where the Laws of Physics as we know and explain the Universe were suspended, allowing for the impossible to be possible and then instantaneously reverting back to normal relativity for the rest of the duration.

 

Sorry but I find this all bollocks - probably more logical to say 'God did it!'

 

To be fair to the Astronomers, most of this is speculation because the actual evidence they have dates from after the big bang. They can create hypotheses which extrapolate beyond the evidence, but if they don't make that distinction clear then they aren't very good scientists imho. 

 

You can say that God did it, leading to similar difficult questions about God, or you could simply admit that we don't yet know all these things. 

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1 hour ago, Campion said:

 

Thanks, I wasn't sure if hell is a Biblical concept. The word itself derives from the Nordic pagan 'Hel' which is both the goddess of the afterlife for non-warriors, and her realm where most of us go after death (apart from warriors who die in battle, who go to Valhalla). And as far as I can see, both hel and -halla are connected to the English word hall. So Mac's suggestion of the lower astral realm makes sense, as a modern equivalent of the pagan hel. It also figures that the early Christian church would want to demonise the pagan beliefs, but keep the language, to more easily convert them. 

 

if you look at some medieval representations of hell they remind me of descriptions by people who have experienced near death experiences

 

main_lastjudge_gettyimages-533794106_16x

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2 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

There are many rooms in the mansion but no Hell as described by mainstream Christianity.

 

I guess Sheol could be viewed as a lower astral realm, the Jews describe it as a fiery place where souls are purified.

 

The Book of Gates (Arabic: كتاب البوابات, romanizedKitab al-Bawaabat) is an ancient Egyptian funerary text dating from the New Kingdom.[1] It narrates the passage of a newly deceased soul into the next world, corresponding to the journey of the sun through the underworld during the hours of the night. The soul is required to pass through a series of 'gates' at different stages in the journey. Each gate is associated with a different goddess, and requires that the deceased recognise the particular character of that deity. The text implies that some people will pass through unharmed, but that others will suffer torment in a lake of fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Gates

 

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47 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

The Book of Gates (Arabic: كتاب البوابات, romanizedKitab al-Bawaabat) is an ancient Egyptian funerary text dating from the New Kingdom.[1] It narrates the passage of a newly deceased soul into the next world, corresponding to the journey of the sun through the underworld during the hours of the night. The soul is required to pass through a series of 'gates' at different stages in the journey. Each gate is associated with a different goddess, and requires that the deceased recognise the particular character of that deity. The text implies that some people will pass through unharmed, but that others will suffer torment in a lake of fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Gates

 

 

 

The Kabbalists say there are 50 gates between here and the Kingdom of heaven and only Jesus has managed to cross all 50 on passing over.

 

Can't remember where I picked that up from.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

if you look at some medieval representations of hell they remind me of descriptions by people who have experienced near death experiences

 

They saw what they expected to see.

 

Programming.

 

I don't like it.

 

Programming people to believe something different to the reality and using the appearance of higher knowledge to extract money and power out of the bargain is sickening to me.

 

Woe to the scribes and Pharisee's...

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On 10/30/2023 at 11:40 AM, Storm in the garden said:

b) A 'supreme being' with a sharp pencil sat down at a draughtboard and sketched out everything from carrots root system to carnivores teeth structure? 

 

Hmm..I think I'll go with a)

 

like to address this post.

 

Specifically evolution or a Supreme Being with a sharp pencil.

 

I do not believe there is a sharp pencil that God used to create the world. I know your being sarcastic a bit so I'll tone it down a bit.

 

What if, God is just an energy or force or spiritual substance that exists in the Universe and that energy created the building blocks of life. Then that 'life took on a 'Life' of its own and started generating or creating whatever it could through the process of trial and error as you suggest.

 

Well, that would explain the Dodo and Gay people.

 

Why did evolution create the Dodo? A flightless bird, a birds only defence is its ability to fly, so evolution or God created a bird that was doomed from the start. Why do it?

 

What about Gay people? If we are all God's creation then so are Gay people, but Gay people can't create so its an evolutionary dead end so why do it?

 

I've heard it asked before why would an Almighty Loving God create a worm that tunnels into the eyes of children leaving them blind - why would God create that?

 

My answer is simple, God didn't create it directly, God only created the basis for life, the beginning and allowed 'Life' to decide itself. And so 'Life/Evolution' started to grow and grow and create more and more complex organisms and along the way its tried out everything - even tunnelling worms that blind you.

 

Evolution or God is not evil or directly the cause of these things, they are a product of creation or evolution trying out different things to see what works and from the point of view of Evolution, the tunnelling worms is not evil, its a life form like any other lifer form. The fact that its survival depends on discomfort to another is just the way it is for evolution. When 'Evolution/God# created the Dodo, it didn't think 'I bet those birds are going to die horrible violent death’s from ground predators' - rather it though 'I'll try this out, see where it goes'

 

Now if all us organisms are just a product of evolution and we just are meatbags that consume energy grow old, procreate and die, then where do the higher functions we possess come from?

 

What part of a soulless existence would cause a fish to do this –

 

 

 

Manta.jpg

Manta2.jpg

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Why should it do it? There's obviously a desire, a yearning, inquisitiveness, excitement, exhilaration something that drives it to try. Where does that impulse come from if we're just meatbags driven by food, warmth and survival?

 

Why paint? Why produce music? 

 

Where does this higher function come from? Why would evolution evolve in us those higher functions?

 

Now what about Magic? I know it exists in some form, I also know there is, shall we say, some remnant, or memory, or energy signature that contains memory and has the appearance of being intelligent - we can get messages from the spirit world that only they would know if they were actually the dead spirit of who they say they were. I'm talking from experience, but if you have not had such experiences then I can understand your scepticism.

 

For some people - the supernatural is just another reality, an aspect of our lives, I know I am an energy being in a meat suit. The meat suit is just the vehicle in this realm. It allows me to stand on this giant rock and stare out into infinity (at night) and experience what this universe looks and feels like in this body.

 

Thats the point of life - to live.

But there are those that try to convince you that you are wicked, sinful, ignorant and must conform to their will in order to be saved - they will say things like 'Live' is 'Evil' backwards! The scriptures are the word of God and they will selectively read the Bible to support their view and claim a different view is corruption from the devil, or you don't have enough faith or the old chestnut 'its Gods will' or some other vehicle that allows a Cognitive Dissonance to occur and the person becomes ‘Faithfull’

 

FFS

 

Some people are just lost in fantasy worlds.

 

 

Edited by pi3141
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Here's an example of belief in fantasy overriding life itself. 

 

Afghan women were buried alive in earthquake because they were afraid to leave home without a hijab on and rescue workers would not break Taliban rules on 'mixing' with females

 

Strict Taliban rules led to a higher female death toll in the Afghanistan quakes


The 6.3-magnitude quake on October 7 was followed by several smaller quakes


The UN has previously said that the country's strict rules are harming women 

 

Afghan women were buried alive in their homes after an 6.3 magnitude earthquake as they were afraid of going outside without their hijabs, it has emerged. 

 

Rescue efforts following the October 7 earthquake, which hit western Afghanistan and killed more than 2,000, were also hindered by a Taliban directive that forbids women and men who do not know each other from mixing. 

 

An  anonymous female rescue worker told the Telegraph the arbitrary rules meant male rescuers were reluctant to help women, leading to a higher death toll among women. 

 

 

 

If that Earthquake had hit Israel the Muslims would be claiming its Gods judgement, but here the Taliban do not accept it as judgement from God against them and are probably very proud of all the dead women and children for not disobeying the rules.

 

Extreme Isalm is a disgraceful religion. 

Edited by pi3141
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