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Fit a heat pump or else face a £15,000 fine and 12 months in jail


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36 minutes ago, k_j_evans said:

i wonder if it is possible to go completely off grid in a terraced house - somehow I doubt it or I would.

 

here's another issue to consider with that particular scenario:

 

if something is 'smart' it essentially means it is wireless so that the central controllers can remotely control it and also receive a constant flow of data from it so that they know what you are doing, saying and thinking at all times.

 

the push for smart meters was something that the EU was aggressively doing and even though we have voted for brexit to avoid such things here we are with a government threatening to jail us if we don't allow them into our homes to install smart meters

 

but years ago there was a parliamentary committee over the dangers of smart meters because they are wireless and wifi is harmful to health. There are many studies that show this.

 

The committee was calling for a halt to the smart meter roll out and yet here we are, so its not as if parliament don't know that smart meters are harmful to health...

 

In every street there is one booster smart meter that takes the signalled data from all the other smart meters and then sends that data to the energy company. Under the technocracy the information will go to 'the cloud' where the AI will process it. 5G s being imposed to handle the huge amount of data this will create.

 

No one knows if that booster smart meter is in their home but whoever has it will be subjected to an extra large dose of microwaves. but even the regular smart meters will still subject people to radiation.

 

So if you are in a terraced house and have had your meter removed to go off grid you will still be living in the overlapping wifi fields of your neighbours smart meters and wifi etc, unless you completely cover your house with Y-shield paint and metal mesh over the windows

Edited by Macnamara
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5 minutes ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

As I mentioned earlier, if you can't afford to upgrade to meet EPC standards, your only option will be to sell below market-value to 'cash buyers' or via auction. The 'cash buyers' will be cash-rich investors, either wealthy landlords or private companies such as housing associations/trusts, who will either be able to pay to have the property upgraded, or find loopholes and exemptions to get around legislation - think 'exempt housing' or accommodation for migrants/refugees.

 

We fast head back into the feudal mediaeval times where 'robber barons' owned all property and 'allowed' the peasants to live in them in exchange for 'tribute' or labour.

 

well what the robber barons of the world economic forum are speaking about is a merger of state and corporate power where they have captured governments or to quote klaus schwab 'we have penetrated the cabinets'.

 

so really the old paradigm of pursuing profit is dead. A game where people can pursue profit is too open and free for these guys. No what they are talking about is TOTALITARIAN top down control

 

This means that they don't need to buy your property from you as that would keep you in the game financially. Instead they just need to trap you so that you can't sell or cover your payments so that the banks can simply reposses

 

for your scenario to work would mean they are not going to raise the EPC bar on selling properties but i think they are going to. I think they are going to make it impossible to sell unless your property is category C. When you then get that inspector in to assess your property they will impose DEMANDS on you and if you can't meet those demands then you will suffer penalties and what i'm saying is that many will not be able to afford to meet those demands OR be allowed to sell

 

This is ultimately about getting people off the land and into high density 'smart' mega cities so none of it is about being fair or reasonable....quite the opposite. its going to be a rigged game and as KJ says the assessors can just say what they like about your property

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9 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

but years ago there was a parliamentary committee over the dangers of smart meters because they are wireless and wifi is harmful to health. There are many studies that show this.

 

The committee was calling for a halt to the smart meter roll out and yet here we are, so its not as if parliament don't know that smart meters are harmful to health...

Smart Meters - Commons Select Committee Meeting (Clip 1 of 6)

 

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On 9/10/2023 at 6:40 PM, Macnamara said:

 

right and consider that they are destroying all the old coal power stations so that more and more energy will be from unreliable wind farms

 

in the new energy bill it says that they want peoples appliances 'smart' and connected to the grid so that they can manage upswings and downswings of energy

 

so that sounds to me as if we are going to be told when you can use certain appliances for example you might be allowed to run your laundry washing machine at night during a low energy time. Also we can no doubt expect black outs when there is no wind

 

Don't forget though that the super rich in their mansions on private estates will be exempt because they need to keep their jacuzzis, tennis courts, swimming pools and 30+ rooms heated 24/7.

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9 minutes ago, itsnotallrightjack said:

 

Don't forget though that the super rich in their mansions on private estates will be exempt because they need to keep their jacuzzis, tennis courts, swimming pools and 30+ rooms heated 24/7.

 

Most already get free energy especially Windsor Castle & Buckingham palace.

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3 hours ago, itsnotallrightjack said:

 

Don't forget though that the super rich in their mansions on private estates will be exempt because they need to keep their jacuzzis, tennis courts, swimming pools and 30+ rooms heated 24/7.

 

yes they will be given a sufficient social credit score to permit them to continue in that luxury to which they are accustomed.....'everyone is equal but some are more equal than others' - the pigs in 'animal farm' by george orwell

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30 minutes ago, Mono Inc said:

I had a ground source heat pump fitted 3 years ago. It's paid for its self and I'm saving a considerable amount of dosh.

 

Mono Inc prepares herself for a barrage of flying shit.

 

 

I'm genuinely curious as I don't know anyone who has one of these.

 

How much did it cost and how much does it cost to run? How have you found it?

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1 hour ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

I'm genuinely curious as I don't know anyone who has one of these.

 

How much did it cost and how much does it cost to run? How have you found it?

A heat pump should reduce your energy bill for heating by 50%. 

Installation bepends on the size of your property.

It's important to remember that heat pumps can also cool the property. Im not sweating my tits off as I type this 👍

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1 hour ago, Mono Inc said:

A heat pump should reduce your energy bill for heating by 50%. 

Installation bepends on the size of your property.

It's important to remember that heat pumps can also cool the property. Im not sweating my tits off as I type this 👍

I seriously doubt that. Heat pumps are apparently very inefficient (and noisy) at actually heating anything compared to gas central heating and a condensing boiler - and you need to change all your pipework and radiators - very expensive. Ground source might be better than air source, but you need to be rich enough to have a decent garden for ground source. Why would we need to cool anything artificially? Just open a door or a window...

Edited by k_j_evans
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40 minutes ago, k_j_evans said:

I seriously doubt that. Heat pumps are apparently very inefficient (and noisy) at actually heating anything compared to gas central heating and a condensing boiler - and you need to change all your pipework and radiators - very expensive. Ground source might be better than air source, but you need to be rich enough to have a decent garden for ground source. Why would we need to cool anything artificially? Just open a door or a window...

Im not lying 😇

It's no more noisy than a refrigerator and only runs for a fraction of the time.

You definitely do not need to change radiators or piping.

You may not have  use for cool air conditioning, some do. For them/me opening a window is not the same.

Obviously its up to you, for me  I'm saving a packet and have perfect air and water temperature, much cheaper than before.

Being able to control the system by my phone has convince and economic benefits.

 

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2 hours ago, Mono Inc said:

A heat pump should reduce your energy bill for heating by 50%. 

Installation bepends on the size of your property.

It's important to remember that heat pumps can also cool the property. Im not sweating my tits off as I type this 👍

 

I'm guessing you're not from the UK then! 😅

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Mono Inc said:

Obviously its up to you, for me  I'm saving a packet and have perfect air and water temperature, much cheaper than before.

Being able to control the system by my phone has convince and economic benefits.

 

what was the size of the area in square metres that the underground cables were laid over for your ground source heating?

 

also i take it you are using a smart phone to control your heating?

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1 hour ago, Macnamara said:

 

what was the size of the area in square metres that the underground cables were laid over for your ground source heating?

 

also i take it you are using a smart phone to control your heating?

Yes I use a smart device, phone/tablet/watch/whatever to control my heating/cooling, but i don't have to. I've not checked recently, does the guy who's name cannot be mentioned still have his smartphone app?

A ground source heat pump needs more space than an air source heat pump. A typical horizontal system requires around 700 square metres. A vertical system needs enough space for the drilling rig to access the site, but boreholes are only around 20 centimetres wide. If multiple boreholes are needed, these are placed 5-6 metres apart.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Mono Inc said:

I'm living in the UK.

 

OK thanks for clarifying.

 

7 minutes ago, Mono Inc said:

A ground source heat pump needs more space than an air source heat pump. A typical horizontal system requires around 700 square metres. A vertical system needs enough space for the drilling rig to access the site, but boreholes are only around 20 centimetres wide. If multiple boreholes are needed, these are placed 5-6 metres apart.

 

My understanding is that the UK government and energy providers are promoting 'air source' heat pumps in lieu of 'ground source'.

 

Ground source sounds in theory 'better' than air source, but I remain sceptical.

 

If your property sits on a large amount of land then ground source might be feasible, but for many people living in large cities/towns then it isn't going to be.

 

I wrote about a Taxpayer Alliance report on my website last year:

https://thegrumpyowl.co.uk/2022/04/16/heat-pumps-the-future-of-home-heating-is-the-cost-worth-it/

 

Quote

Air source heat pumps work much like a fridge operating in reverse. They utilise outside air blown through a network of tubes – via a compressor using refrigerant – to heat air or water which is then circulated around the home.

Heat pumps work best when there is less of a difference between inside and outside temperatures, in much the same way that a fridge has to work harder in hot weather. Air source heat pumps also have a lower output than a gas or oil-fired boiler. This means they can’t deliver heat as quickly. Instead they are best used to heat the home up slowly over a longer period.

As these require electricity to operate, I can't see these being particularly effective at heating a home when it is really cold outside.

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1 hour ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

OK thanks for clarifying.

 

 

My understanding is that the UK government and energy providers are promoting 'air source' heat pumps in lieu of 'ground source'.

 

Ground source sounds in theory 'better' than air source, but I remain sceptical.

 

If your property sits on a large amount of land then ground source might be feasible, but for many people living in large cities/towns then it isn't going to be.

 

I wrote about a Taxpayer Alliance report on my website last year:

https://thegrumpyowl.co.uk/2022/04/16/heat-pumps-the-future-of-home-heating-is-the-cost-worth-it/

 

As these require electricity to operate, I can't see these being particularly effective at heating a home when it is really cold outside.

I, as a user have tried to give you good advice from personal and practical experience, take it or leave it. 

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2 hours ago, Mono Inc said:

Yes I use a smart device, phone/tablet/watch/whatever to control my heating/cooling, but i don't have to. I've not checked recently, does the guy who's name cannot be mentioned still have his smartphone app?

 

what voldemort?

 

2 hours ago, Mono Inc said:

A ground source heat pump needs more space than an air source heat pump. A typical horizontal system requires around 700 square metres. A vertical system needs enough space for the drilling rig to access the site, but boreholes are only around 20 centimetres wide. If multiple boreholes are needed, these are placed 5-6 metres apart.

 

 

700 square meters! right so not really a viable solution for the vast majority of people, many of which don't even have a garden let alone 700 square meters

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On 9/16/2023 at 3:49 PM, Mono Inc said:

Im not lying 😇

It's no more noisy than a refrigerator and only runs for a fraction of the time.

You definitely do not need to change radiators or piping.

You may not have  use for cool air conditioning, some do. For them/me opening a window is not the same.

Obviously its up to you, for me  I'm saving a packet and have perfect air and water temperature, much cheaper than before.

Being able to control the system by my phone has convince and economic benefits.

 

Why on earth would you want to control your heating with a phone? Much easier and cheaper to just set the thermostat and the time clock - then you don't need a fancy phone. Anyway, I think you can already do that with that BT Hive thingy. 

Most installers say something like this: "Your radiators or underfloor heating will have been installed to provide your home with heat at high temperatures. With the efficient running of low flow temperature heat pump you may need to upgrade or install additional radiators; and not all pipework is suitable. Whatever your current system is, it will need checking and flushing before connecting to your new heat pump."  and "The cost of installing an air source heat pump in a new or self build to be upwards from £11,000. The cost will be significantly higher in an existing property, taking improvements to the house’s fabric and replacing and removing existing heating systems into account." Considering that getting a new gas boiler is less than a third of that cost...

Given that they have to be installed where there is good airflow and at least a meter from any boundary, it's pretty much impossible to install one in an older terraced house.

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7 hours ago, Mono Inc said:

A vertical system.

If you went down even 100 metres round here, you'd hit old pit workings and flood the entire area. And imagine the cost of the digging - Actually round here, you hit a fault long before that. I hope calor gas will still be available, otherwise it'll mean ditching the central heating all together and relying on portable electric fires.

Edited by k_j_evans
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21 hours ago, Observations said:

The Green Party's Caroline Lucas on the BBC, in response to Sunak "weakening green policies"

 

"Fossil fuels are more expensive than the Green alternatives"

Yes, a gas boiler is more expensive than a woolly jumper, but a jumper won't heat your bath water

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21 hours ago, Observations said:

The Green Party's Caroline Lucas on the BBC, in response to Sunak "weakening green policies"

 

"Fossil fuels are more expensive than the Green alternatives"

 

3 minutes ago, k_j_evans said:

Yes, a gas boiler is more expensive than a woolly jumper, but a jumper won't heat your bath water

 

Thanks. How true. I heard the whole Lucas 'interview' second time round. It was a lot of spin. The news is full of Sunak, and also Suella Braverman who is quoted as saying "won't save the planet by bankrupting Brits." I just realised I better try and post this and a couple of quotes in the 2030 thread. 

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