Jump to content

The national debt scandal


wolfpavek1

Recommended Posts

Visit wiki united kingdom national debt.

Since 2009 the interest rates have been at zero

.so the government were borrowing at cheap the BOE then realized they have not been making any money they rely on interest to find their banking industry

Then in 2019 they saw COVID going and the government went on a spending spree this time on bonds and the escalating interest rates sparked a fire.

All business buy cheap debt and loan it out to others so cash rich companies eg m and s borrow at cheap and then sell it on the markets.

The thing is noone was making any money

 

Then over night we have gone form a m and s borrow cheap and sell to the market to owing all these companies billions so our national debt is now above the GDP.

That means we are bankrupt to m and s and other big cash rich debt low companies.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everything the Government has done for decades is basically buy now pay later.

 

The first scandal was the lower NI and taxes paid by the boomers, in the 1980s it was all cut tax and deregulate, whilst selling the family silver. 

 

Now we have to pay full gouge rates on utilities and there is no sovereign wealth fund to draw on based on north ses oil and the higher taxes the boomers should have paid.

 

We are heading for £160bn a year just in state pensions by 2030, but the public sector pension bill is massively higher.

 

Really these should be partially defaulted on, as rubbish investment strategies have lee to lower returns despite loads of inflated backfilling payments. Invest in industry, not Government bonds if you are the Government.

 

The Government is really just a ponzi pension scheme with some public services attached.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Mikhail Liebestein said:

Everything the Government has done for decades is basically buy now pay later.

 

The first scandal was the lower NI and taxes paid by the boomers, in the 1980s it was all cut tax and deregulate, whilst selling the family silver. 

 

Now we have to pay full gouge rates on utilities and there is no sovereign wealth fund to draw on based on north ses oil and the higher taxes the boomers should have paid.

 

We are heading for £160bn a year just in state pensions by 2030, but the public sector pension bill is massively higher.

 

Really these should be partially defaulted on, as rubbish investment strategies have lee to lower returns despite loads of inflated backfilling payments. Invest in industry, not Government bonds if you are the Government.

 

The Government is really just a ponzi pension scheme with some public services attached.

 

 

What lower NI and Taxes for boomers? I think you got your generations mixed up. When I started work, tax was about 33% (higher rate tax was 83% and super tax was about 95%) and your stamp was a set rate - pretty low, not a percentage - same into the mid-80s for ordinary earners (but slightly reduced for the rich). It was only later (end of the 80s, I think) that tax was reduced (for the newer generations) and NI was increased. It was for the yuppies, if anyone. We also paid purchase tax (not VAT), which was a lot higher, on "luxury goods". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, k_j_evans said:

What lower NI and Taxes for boomers? I think you got your generations mixed up. When I started work, tax was about 33% (higher rate tax was 83% and super tax was about 95%) and your stamp was a set rate - pretty low, not a percentage - same into the mid-80s for ordinary earners (but slightly reduced for the rich). It was only later (end of the 80s, I think) that tax was reduced (for the newer generations) and NI was increased. It was for the yuppies, if anyone. We also paid purchase tax (not VAT), which was a lot higher, on "luxury goods". 

 

Taxes started high, but boomers had them reduced them from the 1980s, many have only recently or are about to retire so benefited from that period. We now have a high tax burden, mainly to fund pensions and the NHS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Mikhail Liebestein said:

 

Taxes started high, but boomers had them reduced them from the 1980s, many have only recently or are about to retire so benefited from that period. We now have a high tax burden, mainly to fund pensions and the NHS.

But all workers benefitted from lower taxes not just boomers - who'd been paying them since leaving school at 15 (not 16 like the newer generations). Also, very few of my generation went into higher education, we got jobs (at lest until unemployment exploded in the later 70s. We also didn't get huge sums from the dole - if you'd been working, you got unemployment benefit for a short time, then you got a reduced amount of supplementary benefit if you didn't get a job. Oh, and coop milk tokens. You also had to sign on in person every week. If you hadn't worked, you just got the low supplementary benefit. so few people spent their entire lives on the dole. Don't blame oldies who've actually paid more during their longer working lives for the government's bribery of younger voters. Lower taxes (well, NI went up, but the con was that it was for the NHS), higher benefits and ability to live on them forever, higher education for almost everyone however thick (good way to massage unemployment figures). We got our retirement age raised even though we left school earlier and so had longer working lives than later generations. Only the very last of the boomers would have started work as late as the 1980s

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/1/2023 at 5:09 PM, Mikhail Liebestein said:

Everything the Government has done for decades is basically buy now pay later. 

...

We are heading for £160bn a year just in state pensions by 2030, but the public sector pension bill is massively higher.

 

Really these should be partially defaulted on, as rubbish investment strategies have lee to lower returns despite loads of inflated backfilling payments. Invest in industry, not Government bonds if you are the Government.

 

Although state & public sector pensions are expensive, and not saved up for in advance, I'm not aware they are contributing to the national debt. Are you suggesting they default on pensions - putting millions of people onto benefits instead - or on the general national debt which was increased mainly due to the credit crunch (bailing out the banks), and the covid spending. Tho you could say that the national deficit is just due to the overall spending being more than income. 

 

As for the generational issue, boomers are mostly retired now and the current crop of leaders are mostly gen x who seem to be more tolerant of debt than their parents. It's also a chronic short termism, spend today and get the political credit today. If we did start saving up into a long term sovereign fund like the oil-rich nations do, what's to stop the next govt from frittering it away for their own benefit? Perhaps short termism is the price we pay for our voting system. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Campion said:

 

Although state & public sector pensions are expensive, and not saved up for in advance, I'm not aware they are contributing to the national debt. Are you suggesting they default on pensions - putting millions of people onto benefits instead - or on the general national debt which was increased mainly due to the credit crunch (bailing out the banks), and the covid spending. Tho you could say that the national deficit is just due to the overall spending being more than income. 

 

As for the generational issue, boomers are mostly retired now and the current crop of leaders are mostly gen x who seem to be more tolerant of debt than their parents. It's also a chronic short termism, spend today and get the political credit today. If we did start saving up into a long term sovereign fund like the oil-rich nations do, what's to stop the next govt from frittering it away for their own benefit? Perhaps short termism is the price we pay for our voting system. 

 

All those items are public spending which needs financing. The main issue is there was no forwarding planning.

Having a large chunk of people retiring now was predictable and no provision was made - hence the calls for foreign labour and current high tax burden.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebestein said:

 

All those items are public spending which needs financing. The main issue is there was no forwarding planning.

Having a large chunk of people retiring now was predictable and no provision was made - hence the calls for foreign labour and current high tax burden.

Well... Their worked for their pension... And we (younger) also support them. Considering two times more people are working (many women stayed at home in the past) and automation (more total production made aka rubbish) someone put on a plate more than can eat... Don't blame anyone but 1 fat %... They want you to blame Ahmed or Kowalski while 'stay safe' on their yachts and properties with a big fence. They are lucky I'm not their cook... 😏

Considering it's harder every year to be eligible for any benefits (they don't increase total income that allows to take benefits) it's ridicules to blame poor for a poverty... 🤣

Edited by Human10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Mikhail Liebestein said:

All those items are public spending which needs financing. The main issue is there was no forwarding planning.

Having a large chunk of people retiring now was predictable and no provision was made - hence the calls for foreign labour and current high tax burden.

 

The provision they made was to increase the state pension age - more so for women than for men so we now have equality at what, 67? Also most regular workers had their final salary pensions replaced with inferior versions. But we've had a lot of economic growth over the last 50 years so we should be richer than ever? Yet it doesn't always feel like that maybe because it's not shared out fairly, if it was there'd be less blaming the ordinary working boomers and following where the money actually went. 
 
I agree we don't have enough forward planning, in many ways not just financial. Another way we don't forward plan is by not having enough children as we become materially richer. When the baby boom finished, that gave the ptb the new excuse they needed for mass immigration to continue (after the post-war rebuilding was over). Traditional cultures know the value in having large families to provide for the future; we rely on what, debt and giving away our culture? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Campion said:


I agree we don't have enough forward planning, in many ways not just financial. Another way we don't forward plan is by not having enough children as we become materially richer. When the baby boom finished, that gave the ptb the new excuse they needed for mass immigration to continue (after the post-war rebuilding was over). Traditional cultures know the value in having large families to provide for the future; we rely on what, debt and giving away our culture? 

 

Yes, forward planning sadly lacking for many items:

 

-UK dependency ratio, particularly older folk

-UK immigration- houses/schools/hospitals

-NHS workforce (but fewer jabbers please)

-Electric Vehicle battery production 

-Electric vehicle charging and grid power

-Government borrowing / interest rates

 

We are stuffed!

 

.....and as you say child count!

Edited by Mikhail Liebestein
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...