Truthblast Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 "The earth is warming!" "The sea levels are rising!" "Cows are farting and belching Methane!" "Floods, droughts and icestorms!" "We need to drive EVs and eat bugs!" And yet ALL Solar Panels sold for top-Dollar have a s@@t efficiency of < 23%. Something doesn't quite add up here, does it? https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/most-efficient-solar-panels/ Most efficient solar panels Company Panel and capacity Efficiency rating Temperature coefficient Canadian Solar HiHero (445W) 22.80% -0.26% SunPower M Series (440W) 22.80% -0.29% REC Alpha Pure (430W) 22.30% -0.24% Jinko Solar Tiger Neo (445W) 22.27% -0.29% Panasonic Evervolt H/HK (410W) 22.20% -0.26% Trina Vertex S (435W) 21.80% -0.34% ZNShine Solar ZXM7-SHLD120 (465W) 21.55% -0.35% JA Solar JAM54S30 (420W) 21.50% -0.35% Silfab Elite (410W) 21.40% -0.38% Talesun Solar Feather (415W) 21.30% -0.35% LONGi Hi-MO 5m (420W) 21.30% -0.34% Qcells Q.PEAK Duo Black (410W) 20.90% -0.34% Solaria PowerX-400R (400W) 20.50% -0.36% Mission Solar Energy MSE PERC 66 (395W) 19.90% -0.37% Chint Power Systems AstroSmart (370W) 19.10% -0.38% Data accurate as of April 12, 2023. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz93666 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 This is nothing to panic about , no conspyracy! Anything which converts one form of energy to another has an efficiency ...your petrol car has about a 25% efficiency .. that's to say when the petrol is converted 25% goes in moving your car and 75% is heat lost through your radiator and heating the car ... Nucler power stations convert about 35% of the energy into electricity so 65% is lost in heat ... I've got about 80 square meters of solar panels as insurance against the grid going permanently off .... they are about 17% efficient 83% of sunlight hitting them ends up as heat .... The vast majority of panels sold are below 20% because that type are much cheaper to produce ....it's not worth paying double for a few extra % .... Some panels can go over 30% but are ten times the price , only sensible to use in satelites . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truthblast Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, oz93666 said: This is nothing to panic about , no conspyracy! Anything which converts one form of energy to another has an efficiency ...your petrol car has about a 25% efficiency .. that's to say when the petrol is converted 25% goes in moving your car and 75% is heat lost through your radiator and heating the car ... Nucler power stations convert about 35% of the energy into electricity so 65% is lost in heat ... I've got about 80 square meters of solar panels as insurance against the grid going permanently off .... they are about 17% efficient 83% of sunlight hitting them ends up as heat .... The vast majority of panels sold are below 20% because that type are much cheaper to produce ....it's not worth paying double for a few extra % .... Some panels can go over 30% but are ten times the price , only sensible to use in satelites . The United States military BANNED the commercialization of Solar panels above 20% efficiency for decades, claiming that "enemy nations may use them for war". Anyone who applied for a patent for a > 20% panel design had their patent classified and was prohibited from producing or commercializing the panels in any way. 50 - 60% efficiency should be possible in advanced photovoltaics. But nobody is currently allowed to go significantly over 20%. Government orders. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack121 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 51 minutes ago, Truthblast said: The United States military BANNED the commercialization of Solar panels above 20% efficiency for decades, claiming that "enemy nations may use them for war". Anyone who applied for a patent for a > 20% panel design had their patent classified and was prohibited from producing or commercializing the panels in any way. 50 - 60% efficiency should be possible in advanced photovoltaics. But nobody is currently allowed to go significantly over 20%. Government orders. Is it possible to make your own high efficency solar panels? I've watched a few youtube videos on diy solar panels and they seem easy enough 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webtrekker Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 2 hours ago, oz93666 said: I've got about 80 square meters of solar panels as insurance against the grid going permanently off .... Do you have a solar battery to store your energy? Normal solar installations on house roofs etc do not work in a blackout. This is because solar panels feed electricity back into the grid and this is dangerous, eg. to powerline workers, during a blackout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sit down, Waldo Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Couple of mates were firemen. They attended several sub-station fires during hot spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truthblast Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, jack121 said: Is it possible to make your own high efficency solar panels? I've watched a few youtube videos on diy solar panels and they seem easy enough Its probably possible to make a solar panel yourself. But high-efficiency panels require high tech fabrication. I.e. unless some genius inventor figures out a way, you are probably not going to be able to make a 50% efficient panel with materials you can buy as an individual on the open market. I'm sure companies can do it if TPTB sanction it. An individual tinkerer? Only if you find some ingenious way which is new and can be pulled off with stuff you can order online. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webtrekker Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 17 minutes ago, Truthblast said: I.e. unless some genius inventor figures out a way, you are probably not going to be able to make a 50% efficient panel with materials you can buy as an individual on the open market. A the end of the day this 'efficiency' value only really matters if you have limited space and therefore need a high output. If you're not too stuck for space then all you have to do is let your less-efficient DIY panels cover a greater area in order to obtain the power you need to be self-sufficient. The main cost would be in a battery storage system for the rare days that the Sun doesn't shine in the UK! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Apparently the Tartarians had the right idea; 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamboozooka Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 2 hours ago, webtrekker said: Do you have a solar battery to store your energy? Normal solar installations on house roofs etc do not work in a blackout. This is because solar panels feed electricity back into the grid and this is dangerous, eg. to powerline workers, during a blackout. there are inverters that detect if the grid goes down it switches to battery power and blocks electric going into the grid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Inc Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, alexa said: Apparently the Tartarians had the right idea; Occult technology, you? I guess it ties in with you worshipping Yahweh the god of thunder As many know, gods, traditions and festivals are often borrowed and interchanged. Your god of the bible is no different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webtrekker Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, bamboozooka said: there are inverters that detect if the grid goes down it switches to battery power and blocks electric going into the grid Yeah, that's why I asked if oz had battery backup. No batteries = no electricity when the grid goes down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz93666 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 3 hours ago, webtrekker said: Do you have a solar battery to store your energy? Yes ... a rechargeable battery is needed for night and cloudy days 3 hours ago, webtrekker said: Normal solar installations on house roofs etc do not work in a blackout. This is because solar panels feed electricity back into the grid and this is dangerous, eg. to powerline workers, during a blackout. If someone want's a grid connection this means they don't need the expensive battery .... they use power from the grid at all times and when the sun shines they feed the grid which reduces the bill ( the meter goes backwards when feeding grid) .... if the grid fails this is detected and feediing is halted with no problems , when grid power returns this is detected and feeding continues .... But I don't have a grid connection cos this is all about surviving without the grid if society collapses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Owl Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Solar panels are only efficient when the sun is shining in a cloudless sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 3 hours ago, Mono Inc said: Occult technology, The occult (from the Latin word occultus 'clandestine, hidden, secret') is 'knowledge of the hidden'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleP Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 What people do not know is that solar panels are dirty....it contains heavy metals like cadomium and it doesn't last very long so where does it go to? Land mines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macnamara Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 I was in a mill recently that still has a working water wheel. 20 horse power that bad boy was cranking out from what looked like a pretty modest stream of water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
factJack Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 13 hours ago, oz93666 said: . I've got about 80 square meters of solar panels as insurance against the grid going permanently off .... they are about 17% efficient 83% of sunlight hitting them ends up as heat .... Well does this mean I could heat my house with the 83%? I've got solar panels on my shed I use it for lighting and recharging my drill batteries. I would like to understand how to harness the heat if I'm creating it. For my shed I don't want my spanners to go rusty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz93666 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 9 minutes ago, factJack said: Well does this mean I could heat my house with the 83%? I've got solar panels on my shed I use it for lighting and recharging my drill batteries. I would like to understand how to harness the heat if I'm creating it. For my shed I don't want my spanners to go rusty. Yes that's a good idea Jack and something I've thought about ... I guess panels you have are the standard type with an aluminium frame all around .. the heat is all over the surface of the panel and it is very warm to touch on a sunny day so the best way is to circulate air around the back of the panel , you will have to enclose the back space have a sheet of plastic of plywood as big as the panel itself and glue it on the back of the aluminium frame so you've enclosed a space a few cm deep around the back of the panel , then an inlet and outlet so you can blow air out of the panel into the shed ... you can find a small fan on eBay (search blower fan )that can connect strait to the panel so it will only run when the panel is putting out power ... Another advantage is the cooler the panel the more efficient it is that's what the last colomb means in the table in the opening post on this thread "temperature coefficient" a temp coeff of 0.26% means efficiency drops by 0.26 every degreeC increase in temp so 10 C hotter (35C) means you've lost 2.6% electrical output 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz93666 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 6 hours ago, Grumpy Owl said: Solar panels are only efficient when the sun is shining in a cloudless sky. That's sort of right GO .... I've measured the output on the cloudiest rainy day and it's a few% compared with maximum of 15% in intense sunlight ... In practice you never get what the manufacturer says (19%) .... the panels also age and output goes down the older they get .. Manufacturers say they should output with about 14% efficiency after 25 Years ... bear in mind this is at the equator at noon , so output in UK will be much less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz93666 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 4 hours ago, DaleP said: What people do not know is that solar panels are dirty....it contains heavy metals like cadomium and it doesn't last very long so where does it go to? Land mines. No they get carefully recyled because they have a fair bit of silver ... the grid on the cells which make up the panels is pure silver. about 26 cells make up a 100w panel ... busbars and fingers are pure silver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatastrangegame Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 3 hours ago, factJack said: Well does this mean I could heat my house with the 83%? I've got solar panels on my shed I use it for lighting and recharging my drill batteries. I would like to understand how to harness the heat if I'm creating it. For my shed I don't want my spanners to go rusty. Yes there seems to be systems that can combine both electricity and heat. I have no idea about how expensive or efficient this is but in theory it sounds good. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0BHlSZg5M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatastrangegame Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 2 hours ago, oz93666 said: No they get carefully recyled because they have a fair bit of silver ... the grid on the cells which make up the panels is pure silver. about 26 cells make up a 100w panel ... busbars and fingers are pure silver I've heard that the labor cost is more than the material you get out of it, so they just chuck them in landfills. Don't know if that's true but. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz93666 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 36 minutes ago, whatastrangegame said: I've heard that the labor cost is more than the material you get out of it, so they just chuck them in landfills. Don't know if that's true but. I might have been getting a bit ahead of myself , recycling hasn't yet taken off , but has started and future projections are all will soon be recycled and all valuable materials recovered , just silver alone is "$15 from each panel "... https://cleantechnica.com/2022/07/17/solar-panel-recycling-is-about-to-become-big-business/ .... this article is one year old. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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