Is there an executive God?

[Campion]

7 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

the crusades are a tricky one because lets remember that europeans did have a foot in those lands along that eastern mediterranean seaboard for example asia minor used to be greek. So the eastern roman empire was really greek as opposed to roman/italian and they were trying to hold onto that greek world. Herodotus for example was a famous greek from what is now modern day bodrum in turkey.

 

Also lets not forget how once the tribes of arabia united under their new religion islam they exploded outward onto the world conquering by the sword. The progress had to be checked somehow.

 

Then there were the mongals coming from the east which threatened to utterly destroy islam.

 

Yes quite so, the middle east has always been a strategically important area on profitable trade routes so it's not surprising it has been fought over for the whole of recorded history. The crusades can't be picked out as any worse. 

 

5 hours ago, Mr H said:

This question is particularly important when regarding prayer, who or what are we praying too? Or should we be looking to ourselves instead?

 

Well in practical terms many of us were brought up from childhood to believe in God as the boss of the universe which perhaps makes sense as a means of educating children with a sense of self-discipline and morality although it's got obvious drawbacks. But imo it's a very basic type of theology that's not suitable for everyone and anyone who wants to question things will soon develop a more nuanced position. 

[Mr H]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

How did you enter into this realm without cause-and-effect to propel you? 

From the perspective of the human experiencer it would appear as cause an effect. Dad sex with mum, I appear.

 

From the ultimate perspective, there is no separate entity called MR H. The true I is never born. Just a modulation of I. But again we're trapped by language a little but modulation is the best word I can think of.

 

It depends on which perspective we're examing from.

[Mr H]

7 minutes ago, Mr H said:

From the perspective of the human experiencer it would appear as cause an effect. Dad sex with mum, I appear.

 

From the ultimate perspective, there is no separate entity called MR H. The true I is never born. Just a modulation of I. But again we're trapped by language a little but modulation is the best word I can think of.

 

It depends on which perspective we're examing from.

To add. Our human mind cannot experience the eternal now as it is in reality. Because it's configured to process experience, via time and space. These are laws if you like of mind.

 

So it's difficult for us to compute that everything is happening "now" and "here"

Edited June 1 by Mr H

[Talorgan]

1 hour ago, Mr H said:

To add. Our human mind cannot experience the eternal now as it is in reality. Because it's configured to process experience, via time and space. These are laws if you like of mind.

 

So it's difficult for us to compute that everything is happening "now".

We can get amazing glimpses of beyond time and space  or 

as  the notion  as if everything is happening now everywhere at this spot   etc etc 

ie something of tuning into  Universal Mind 

but I wonder if this is even then a filtered glimpse still so doesn't answer the God question perhaps or as it's transient it has different qualities to more permanent movement of perspective?

Perhaps like the tree of life there are different branches or trees within trees ?

Different beings at each level or frequency range etc , 

 

 

 

Edited June 1 by Talorgan

[Grumpy Grapes]

1 hour ago, Mr H said:

From the perspective of the human experiencer it would appear as cause an effect. Dad sex with mum, I appear.

 

From the ultimate perspective, there is no separate entity called MR H. The true I is never born. Just a modulation of I. But again we're trapped by language a little but modulation is the best word I can think of.

 

It depends on which perspective we're examing from.

Unsurprisingly, the nub of this problem is that none of us here on Earth can talk authoritatively about life outside this dimension, no matter what books we have read, or what altered states of awareness we've experienced, or what logical deductions we make. 

[Mr H]

5 minutes ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

Unsurprisingly, the nub of this problem is that none of us here on Earth can talk authoritatively about life outside this dimension, no matter what books we have read, or what altered states of awareness we've experienced, or what logical deductions we make. 

We cannot speak about other dimensions.

 

But we can say with certainty that time and space neither exist.

 

We can do this by going to our experience. Experience being the highest truth, the alternative being belief/theory.

 

That's the best we can do to getting to first principles.

[Talorgan]

14 hours ago, Macnamara said:

The danger of the oneness idea so popular in the new age is that transhumanists could argue that their goal of hooking everyones brains upto a giant hive mind is really just a reflection of the divine and therefore all part of 'god's' plan

 

new agers pursue various states of consciousness but what i'm interested in is how does that then translate into behaviour afterwards

 

for example if someone said they experienced a state of universal oneness and that we should all therefore embrace elon musk's neurolinks without fear would you be reassured by that person or would you feel uncomfortable at their revelation?

 

Its easy for some to become downhearted because of the evil state of so many things in the world. Its a very dark and at times hostile place and as a result it becomes easy to loose faith in a force of good behind it all. But maybe that struggle over our own soul and our resultant world view and the behaviours that will come from it IS the spiritual struggle

 

Do we give over to a dark mindset and poisoned world view or do we continue, through the pain and fear to try and rise above it? Do we ultimately trust in God regardless of what evil or struggles befall us in our life or do we throw it all in the abyss? Do we let it break our spirit or not? Because it's going to try

 

Or course there is the possibility perhaps that we have an experience that seems true but could be a simulation or mind control even  . Eg we think we experience God or higher being but it's counterfeit in some way .

 

This could be fairly new phenomenon with our latest technological or even a very old concept or both / either.

Likewise we could trust in a devine entity but be experiencing similar or again it could be what it seems?

 who knows?

But with today's technology it would be easy to pull off a mass deception of a population perhaps or even get it to believe in technology as spiritual development?

Especially if that population has already been harmed in some way or various ways .

Perhaps this has happened before in earlier cultures at times too.

But beyond the clouds the sun still shines so perhaps is true spiritually.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 2 by Talorgan

[Grumpy Grapes]

8 hours ago, Mr H said:

We cannot speak about other dimensions.

 

But we can say with certainty that time and space neither exist.

 

We can do this by going to our experience. Experience being the highest truth, the alternative being belief/theory.

 

That's the best we can do to getting to first principles.

Experience is in the eye of the beholder. We subjective humans are not in a position to decide conclusively that our experience was 'timeless'. Time passes when you are asleep or unconscious. 

[DaleP]

13 hours ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

Unsurprisingly, the nub of this problem is that none of us here on Earth can talk authoritatively about life outside this dimension, no matter what books we have read, or what altered states of awareness we've experienced, or what logical deductions we make. 

 

Agree that you cannot read books to under stand but one's experience.

 

13 hours ago, Mr H said:

We cannot speak about other dimensions.

 

But we can say with certainty that time and space neither exist.

 

We can do this by going to our experience. Experience being the highest truth, the alternative being belief/theory.

 

That's the best we can do to getting to first principles.

 

Why can't we speak about other dimensions?

If you understand what other dimensions are, then you realise that you are in all of the dimensions currently IF you can direct your focus on it.

Again, this takes understanding and experience.

For example, there are people who went to the past and etched something and found the evidence in present day. Unfortunately it is not my experience otherwise it would be cool to tell you but it indicates that it is possible to go back in time to change the present. I think many things are done this way but it's like the Interstellar or Inception movie, it sounds like it belongs to a Sci-Fi fantasy world.

[DaleP]

5 hours ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

Experience is in the eye of the beholder. We subjective humans are not in a position to decide conclusively that our experience was 'timeless'. Time passes when you are asleep or unconscious. 

 

So you are waiting for scientists or government to give you validation.

Clearly likes of healing, telepathy, magic and RV appears subjective but you know it works.

[Origin]

13 hours ago, Mr H said:

We cannot speak about other dimensions.

 

But we can say with certainty that time and space neither exist.

 

We can do this by going to our experience. Experience being the highest truth, the alternative being belief/theory.

 

That's the best we can do to getting to first principles.

We cannot speak about other dimensions.

They are not dimensions. They are the interconnected states of the same overarching fabric. And it is not of natural origin.

 

But we can say with certainty that time and space neither exist.

There must be another principle that has not yet been discovered. The system also has no access to it.

 

We can do this by going to our experience. Experience being the highest truth, the alternative being belief/theory.

And this truth can and has never been negated and altered. This truth also stands far beyond anything humans have ever expressed. 

[Grumpy Grapes]

1 hour ago, DaleP said:

 

So you are waiting for scientists or government to give you validation.

Clearly likes of healing, telepathy, magic and RV appears subjective but you know it works.

I'm not waiting for human validation, I'm waiting for whatever lurks beyond my life as a human. 

[DaleP]

35 minutes ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

I'm not waiting for human validation, I'm waiting for whatever lurks beyond my life as a human. 

Don't wait though.

[Mr H]

19 hours ago, DaleP said:

 

Agree that you cannot read books to under stand but one's experience.

 

 

Why can't we speak about other dimensions?

If you understand what other dimensions are, then you realise that you are in all of the dimensions currently IF you can direct your focus on it.

Again, this takes understanding and experience.

For example, there are people who went to the past and etched something and found the evidence in present day. Unfortunately it is not my experience otherwise it would be cool to tell you but it indicates that it is possible to go back in time to change the present. I think many things are done this way but it's like the Interstellar or Inception movie, it sounds like it belongs to a Sci-Fi fantasy world.

Well of course we. But we can't speak with any authority because none of us have actually experienced it. So.we are exchanging belief systems.

Edited June 3 by Mr H

[Mr H]

On 6/2/2023 at 3:22 AM, Grumpy Grapes said:

Experience is in the eye of the beholder. We subjective humans are not in a position to decide conclusively that our experience was 'timeless'. Time passes when you are asleep or unconscious. 

Not quite what I was saying.

 

If you ask any of the 7 billion people, can you experience a past or a future all will say of course not. It is impossible. You can only experience a past and a future now.

 

My conclusion is based, if no one has ever experienced a past or future (time), why do you believe it exists?

[Grumpy Grapes]

4 hours ago, Mr H said:

Not quite what I was saying.

 

If you ask any of the 7 billion people, can you experience a past or a future all will say of course not. It is impossible. You can only experience a past and a future now.

 

My conclusion is based, if no one has ever experienced a past or future (time), why do you believe it exists?

We all experience the passing of time; the ticking of a clock. Is that not a valid experience?

 

There's one experience that I haven't had - or at least I can't remember having had - and that's the experience of reality outside our realm, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Mr H]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

We all experience the passing of time; the ticking of a clock. Is that not a valid experience?

 

There's one experience that I haven't had - or at least I can't remember having had - and that's the experience of reality outside our realm, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Well if you go to that experience, the experience is watching a clock. And that happens now. You are not experiencing time.

 

Time implies a past and a future, but these are concepts which can never be experienced. Except in the now, which is all there is. A very useful concept l, but not reality 

 

 

[Mr H]

This is more subtle to experience and demonstrate but there is no space either.

 

If you take the time to go to where you experience, experience, this never actually goes anywhere. 

 

We are always here and always now.

 

Our mind is like a VR headset which gives seeming dimensions, time and space to what is dimension less. And produces seeming stuff called matter.

Edited June 3 by Mr H

[Grumpy Grapes]

49 minutes ago, Mr H said:

Well if you go to that experience, the experience is watching a clock. And that happens now. You are not experiencing time.

 

Time implies a past and a future, but these are concepts which can never be experienced. Except in the now, which is all there is. A very useful concept l, but not reality 

 

 

How does one moment transform into the next moment without cause-and-effect? Without the past and future, how does the 'now' get framed?

[DaleP]

11 hours ago, Mr H said:

Well of course we. But we can't speak with any authority because none of us have actually experienced it. So.we are exchanging belief systems.

 

When people first learn how to do healing, many people didn't know how to feel energy. So the learning starts from sensing energetic body. Some don't get it straight away while others who are sensitive can feel the boundary. But in any case, these people didn't know that they were feeling these energies until they were told. In another words, they were feeling it (of course we do, in a sense of bad vibes etc) but didn't know that it was energy. This goes for some psychic abilities seeing aura. Some people were able to see the energetic body from young age but thought everyone saw it until someone told them that they couldn't. It's like this when it comes to dimension.

We already have access to it but unless you actively use it, you wouldn't know and it's not a 'belief' system. If you can repeat again and again it can't be fluke.

[Mr H]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

How does one moment transform into the next moment without cause-and-effect? Without the past and future, how does the 'now' get framed?

There are no moments. That implies time. There is only "now".

 

Our mind cannot fathom how experience is formulated in reality, because our mind has limitations and is constructed to view reality as seemingly time and space.

 

The best we can do is say how it isn't not how it is.

 

And as noone can experience time, my suggestion is that when we discuss ultimate reality, we have to downgrade it as a concept.

[Mr H]

5 minutes ago, DaleP said:

 

When people first learn how to do healing, many people didn't know how to feel energy. So the learning starts from sensing energetic body. Some don't get it straight away while others who are sensitive can feel the boundary. But in any case, these people didn't know that they were feeling these energies until they were told. In another words, they were feeling it (of course we do, in a sense of bad vibes etc) but didn't know that it was energy. This goes for some psychic abilities seeing aura. Some people were able to see the energetic body from young age but thought everyone saw it until someone told them that they couldn't. It's like this when it comes to dimension.

We already have access to it but unless you actively use it, you wouldn't know and it's not a 'belief' system. If you can repeat again and again it can't be fluke.

Ok Dale.

 

I have not experienced being, in another dimension. So I cannot speak about it. If you have and it's not a belief, then would be interesting to listen to your experiences on a separate thread.

[DaleP]

2 minutes ago, Mr H said:

Ok Dale.

 

I have not experienced being, in another dimension. So I cannot speak about it. If you have and it's not a belief, then would be interesting to listen to your experiences on a separate thread.

 

Just to remind you that our 3D realm is the only physical realm, 4th, 5th....... are all energetic/mental realm.

So it is not about our physical body going to 4D or 5D. We go to these places when we are sleep, that's what normal dream or lucid dreaming is about. Your body stays here but your energetic body/mind travels.

 

If you want to familiarlise yourself with dimensions, this video might help.

[Jason57]

I hope there isn't. Let's be real, if the executive God is from one of these religions then most of humanity is screwed at death for not following the right laws. I used to believe in a loving God, but these days I just try to love people in general, as it seems none of these dieties or Gods love humanity. I hope it's lights out after death in this world.

[Mr H]

5 minutes ago, DaleP said:

 

Just to remind you that our 3D realm is the only physical realm, 4th, 5th....... are all energetic/mental realm.

So it is not about our physical body going to 4D or 5D. We go to these places when we are sleep, that's what normal dream or lucid dreaming is about. Your body stays here but your energetic body/mind travels.

 

If you want to familiarlise yourself with dimensions, this video might help.

But have you done this Dale? Or you have read about it?