Is there an executive God?

[Mr H]

I would like to explore the notion as to whether there is an executive God or not?

 

By this I mean, is there a separate entity called god that directs everything?

 

Or if you believe in oneness. 

 

Is there a part of God, that controls and directs everything?

 

Or could it be more an omnicentric God. Where there is no central point of control, and every part of God (us lot) is and contributes to the overall control and direction of experience?

Edited June 1 by Mr H

[Macnamara]

The danger of the oneness idea so popular in the new age is that transhumanists could argue that their goal of hooking everyones brains upto a giant hive mind is really just a reflection of the divine and therefore all part of 'god's' plan

 

new agers pursue various states of consciousness but what i'm interested in is how does that then translate into behaviour afterwards

 

for example if someone said they experienced a state of universal oneness and that we should all therefore embrace elon musk's neurolinks without fear would you be reassured by that person or would you feel uncomfortable at their revelation?

 

Its easy for some to become downhearted because of the evil state of so many things in the world. Its a very dark and at times hostile place and as a result it becomes easy to loose faith in a force of good behind it all. But maybe that struggle over our own soul and our resultant world view and the behaviours that will come from it IS the spiritual struggle

 

Do we give over to a dark mindset and poisoned world view or do we continue, through the pain and fear to try and rise above it? Do we ultimately trust in God regardless of what evil or struggles befall us in our life or do we throw it all in the abyss? Do we let it break our spirit or not? Because it's going to try

[Mr H]

40 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

The danger of the oneness idea so popular in the new age is that transhumanists could argue that their goal of hooking everyones brains upto a giant hive mind is really just a reflection of the divine and therefore all part of 'god's' plan

 

new agers pursue various states of consciousness but what i'm interested in is how does that then translate into behaviour afterwards

 

for example if someone said they experienced a state of universal oneness and that we should all therefore embrace elon musk's neurolinks without fear would you be reassured by that person or would you feel uncomfortable at their revelation?

 

Its easy for some to become downhearted because of the evil state of so many things in the world. Its a very dark and at times hostile place and as a result it becomes easy to loose faith in a force of good behind it all. But maybe that struggle over our own soul and our resultant world view and the behaviours that will come from it IS the spiritual struggle

 

Do we give over to a dark mindset and poisoned world view or do we continue, through the pain and fear to try and rise above it? Do we ultimately trust in God regardless of what evil or struggles befall us in our life or do we throw it all in the abyss? Do we let it break our spirit or not? Because it's going to try

Yes I think you can missappropriate belief systems to justify certain concepts like transhumanism and communism. We also have seen similar missappropriations in the past to justify violence such as the crusades.

 

But I am looking for evidence to what the actual truth is, as to how experience is directed.

 

Those seeking different states of consciousness imo are subtely avoiding the truth and are no different to those chasing objective experiences.

 

You mention forces of good and trusting a God. And this leads back to my original question as to whether there is a separate entity of good called god, a part of God that directs experience or whether it is more the case, that all of us are the directing force of experience?

 

This question is particularly important when regarding prayer, who or what are we praying too? Or should we be looking to ourselves instead?

Edited June 1 by Mr H

[Talorgan]

This is  the fundamental question perhaps?

Clearly we have different states of consciousness at times or out of time etc which some could call connected to God .

 

or perhaps Castaneda might it  call fixing attention on different bundles of the Eagles emanations and god "the mold of man"?

But then that just leaves the question what is beyond this ?

 

 Sheldrake's idea of morphic resonance and natural esp type awareness offers some idea that our consciousness is more fluid and perhaps consciousness is God?

 

 

[Grumpy Grapes]

I think that karma (cause and effect) is what holds everything together and brings meaning to us conscious minds. However, karma has - like most inanimate forces of nature - been symbolised with various deities that are confused with the true conscious living creator of our isolated bubble of reality ("The Matrix). 

[Talorgan]

2 minutes ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

I think that karma (cause and effect) is what holds everything together and brings meaning to us conscious minds. However, karma has - like most inanimate forces of nature - been symbolised with various deities that are confused with the true conscious living creator of our isolated bubble of reality ("The Matrix). 

Yeah consciousness must be beyond cause and effect so perhaps is God Consciousness remembering that "god" is a word and we go beyond words perhaps?

[Talorgan]

6 minutes ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

I think that karma (cause and effect) is what holds everything together and brings meaning to us conscious minds. However, karma has - like most inanimate forces of nature - been symbolised with various deities that are confused with the true conscious living creator of our isolated bubble of reality ("The Matrix). 

Yeah consciousness must be beyond cause and effect so perhaps is God Consciousness

,remembering that "god" is a word and we go beyond words perhaps?

 

 

Edited June 1 by Talorgan

[Mr H]

11 minutes ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

I think that karma (cause and effect) is what holds everything together and brings meaning to us conscious minds. However, karma has - like most inanimate forces of nature - been symbolised with various deities that are confused with the true conscious living creator of our isolated bubble of reality ("The Matrix). 

I think cause and effect does direct many aspects of this world.

 

However i question whether it exists outside this world.

 

Because this indicates time and time is an illusion that enables us to experience this world. I don't think it exists in pure consciousness.

[Grumpy Grapes]

1 hour ago, Mr H said:

I think cause and effect does direct many aspects of this world.

 

However i question whether it exists outside this world.

 

Because this indicates time and time is an illusion that enables us to experience this world. I don't think it exists in pure consciousness.

Why can't Time and karma exist outside this realm? As above, so below.

[Talorgan]

12 minutes ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

Why can't Time and karma exist outside this realm? As above, so below.

Or God even?

Perhaps God is time and karma as well as everything else?

 

[Mr H]

31 minutes ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

Why can't Time and karma exist outside this realm? As above, so below.

Because ultimately time does not exist.

 

Time pertains to the configuration of the human mind. It is how the human mind experiences eternity so it can produce a linear story that we can comprehend.

 

We can test if it is ultimately real or not by going to our experience.

 

Can you ever experience time? The answer is no. You can only experience time, future and the past now, that is the eternally present now. If time doesn't really exist and it's an illusion then so ultimately is cause and effect, because it is dependent on the concept of time, a before and an after

 

 

Therefore in the ultimate analysis, time, cause and effect are illusiory concepts, which is necessary for the human mind to navigate reality, but it is not absolute reality 

Edited June 1 by Mr H

[Mr H]

Edited

Edited June 1 by Mr H

[Grumpy Grapes]

44 minutes ago, Talorgan said:

Or God even?

Perhaps God is time and karma as well as everything else?

 

It depends on what you mean by the word "God". To me there needs to be an underlying mechanism that allows conscious minds - in other realms as well as ours - to interact in a reliable and meaningful way, otherwise consciousness would dissolve into chaos. 

[Talorgan]

39 minutes ago, Mr H said:

Because ultimately time does not exist.

 

Time pertains to the configuration of the human mind. It is how the human mind experiences eternity so it can produce a linear story that we can comprehend.

 

We can test if it is ultimately real or not by going to our experience.

 

Can you ever experience time? The answer is no. You can only experience time, future and the past now, that is the eternally present now. If time doesn't really exist and it's an illusion then so ultimately is cause and effect, because it is dependent on the concept of time, a before and an after

 

 

Therefore in the ultimate analysis, time, cause and effect are illusiory concepts, which is necessary for the human mind to navigate reality, but it is not absolute reality 

I wonder if there is a scale or degree of consciousness ie outside time /cause &effect eg 4th dimensional is more limited to 5th etc etc .

We perhaps dip in and out to various degrees in lifetime (s)?

Other entities likewise do ,we might mistake them for a god etc 

[Grumpy Grapes]

41 minutes ago, Mr H said:

Because ultimately time does not exist.

 

Time pertains to the configuration of the human mind. It is how the human mind experiences eternity so it can produce a linear story that we can comprehend.

 

We can test if it is ultimately real or not by going to our experience.

 

Can you ever experience time? The answer is no. You can only experience time, future and the past now, that is the eternally present now. If time doesn't really exist and it's an illusion then so ultimately is cause and effect, because it is dependent on the concept of time, a before and an after

 

 

Therefore in the ultimate analysis, time, cause and effect are illusiory concepts, which is necessary for the human mind to navigate reality, but it is not absolute reality 

How did you enter into this realm without cause-and-effect to propel you? 

[DaleP]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

I think that karma (cause and effect) is what holds everything together and brings meaning to us conscious minds. However, karma has - like most inanimate forces of nature - been symbolised with various deities that are confused with the true conscious living creator of our isolated bubble of reality ("The Matrix). 

 

Cause and effect only exists in 3D imo.

It's like this....you have a DVD movie or online game. The scenario is already written but you have a choice to choose option 1, 2, 3 etc...

As far as the products goes, be it a DVD or game, it is not playing until player presses the button to commence the play therefore there is no cause and effect.

 

As for deities, gods, angels, demons etc..... I think it's more like an app that gives you power to enable you to write (MS Word) or draw (Photoshop), a programme hence they do not have emotions as such, it just do what it says on the tin. However, like AI we are currently developing, it can learn to harness emotion, consciousness as such but it learned from us. It is no different than thought-form that have been created by men over time which begins to develop a character or semi-consciousness.

[Talorgan]

15 minutes ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

How did you enter into this realm without cause-and-effect to propel you? 

 

Then the question becomes what causes cause and effect?

So beyond cause and effect must " exist "

Or be the space/ void) no- thing from which everything can be 

[DaleP]

2 hours ago, Talorgan said:

But then that just leaves the question what is beyond this ?

 

We need to jump off from a cliff to find out.

It did make me think about all those balcony incidences. You could always go to Dover I guess.

[Talorgan]

2 minutes ago, DaleP said:

 

We need to jump off from a cliff to find out.

It did make me think about all those balcony incidences. You could always go to Dover I guess.

I'd probably land on somebody's head coming ashore and have to come back as an office clerk 

Castaneda apparently jumped but moved consciousness before hitting the canyon but then he was a sorcerer perhaps or being poetic ,artist licence or intel or using metaphors?

But I  definitely wouldn't recommend anybody do such or take a vaccine !

 

 

[DaleP]

1 minute ago, Talorgan said:

I'd probably land on somebody's head coming ashore and have to come back as an office clerk 

Castaneda apparently jumped but moved consciousness before hitting the canyon but then he was a sorcerer perhaps or being poetic ,artist licence or intel or using metaphors?

But I  definitely wouldn't recommend anybody do such or take a vaccine !

 

We'd better learn how to transfer our consciousness asap so that when an apocalypse comes, you can quickly jump to another timeline or dimension. I think this is the only way, just keep on jumping foreverrr.

[Macnamara]

4 hours ago, Mr H said:

We also have seen similar missappropriations in the past to justify violence such as the crusades.

 

the crusades are a tricky one because lets remember that europeans did have a foot in those lands along that eastern mediterranean seaboard for example asia minor used to be greek. So the eastern roman empire was really greek as opposed to roman/italian and they were trying to hold onto that greek world. Herodotus for example was a famous greek from what is now modern day bodrum in turkey.

 

Also lets not forget how once the tribes of arabia united under their new religion islam they exploded outward onto the world conquering by the sword. The progress had to be checked somehow.

 

Then there were the mongals coming from the east which threatened to utterly destroy islam.

[Campion]

5 hours ago, Mr H said:

By this I mean, is there a separate entity called god that directs everything?

 

Leaving aside the self-reference of whether or not such a God would control himself, or if not, where his thoughts come from. If such a God does exist he would be completely controlling my mind and I can't claim to be a separate individual with my own free will which I could use to investigate questions like this and decide what I believe to be true.

 

So I have an epistemological problem with the issue, as with the free will question. It's only worth trying to answer it by making a working assumption that I have free will and independent thought. 

[Talorgan]

6 minutes ago, DaleP said:

 

We'd better learn how to transfer our consciousness asap so that when an apocalypse comes, you can quickly jump to another timeline or dimension. I think this is the only way, just keep on jumping foreverrr.

This seems to be the message of Castaneda to give  recollections back but keep life by changing frequency  etc?

Interesting idea ,not sure where God fits into this view.

It makes sense somehow which is boggling ?

Perhaps we are jumping forever and we don't know it until we realise it?

[Macnamara]

4 hours ago, Mr H said:

But I am looking for evidence to what the actual truth is, as to how experience is directed.

 

but then it wouldn't be a great mystery

 

perhaps the great mystery defies exactitude. Perhaps its something we trust in instead....surrender to

 

4 hours ago, Mr H said:

This question is particularly important when regarding prayer, who or what are we praying too? Or should we be looking to ourselves instead?

 

I think the sufi mystic ghazali said to first 'polish your heart'. So what is it that we are trying to be true to? What are we trying to honour?

[DaleP]

7 minutes ago, Talorgan said:

This seems to be the message of Castaneda to give  recollections back but keep life by changing frequency  etc?

Interesting idea ,not sure where God fits into this view.

It makes sense somehow which is boggling ?

Perhaps we are jumping forever and we don't know it until we realise it?

 

The assemblege point (radio tuner) changes when we sleep, take psychedlic drugs, when sick or dying etc... but we need to be able to control it at will.

It reveals things which we can't see in normal vision and you can enter different realms.

This is how the ancient civilisation vanished into thin air. It's fascinating.