The God of religions is the DEMIURGE. When people pray, they are feeding this being that MASQUERADES as their creator.

[pi3141]

4 hours ago, Campion said:

 

Ok thanks Pi, so it's just violent resistance which he is against. I haven't checked the original quotes in the Bible so I'll take your word for it. But I do also remember another passage about him not bringing peace but a sword. It all makes me think the context is important and we can't make generalisations out of specifics. 

 

Ah well the teaching - 'Resist not evil' is one of those perfect instructions. It applies to all situations, it covers all angles, like 'treat everyone as you wish yourself to be treated' another perfect instruction, you can apply it to any situation and you will not be in error, or at least, in the least amount of error. You may upset someone along the way with different values.

 

But how and when you apply those teachings is a matter of choice.

 

So when Jesus resisted temptation, he was able to do it without himself committing evil, although the devil may have dashed him down and Jesus would have surrendered his life causing the devil to commit an evil act. Again, Jesus would not have been in error, although you could claim such an act was suicide and therefore morally wrong. 

 

But that depends on your beliefs, I don't hold suicide to be morally, wrong but such an act would make God sad.

[pi3141]

29 minutes ago, sock muppet said:

Be defiant in the face of evil, offer the other cheek also as a sign of defiance and purpose, stand your ground, never back down, hold the line in defense of good, you gave the chance and the warning to change course.

 

Excellent post.

 

These teachings in the Bible, like all occult work, can often be interpreted in higher levels.

 

Turn the other cheek seems gentle and non violent, like a Lamb, some sort of hippy dippy peacenick, but actually it can be interpreted as being defiant and taking an aggressive and positive stance against wrongdoing.

[pi3141]

@Campion OK so it's confusing. There's many levels, in the end there is no good or evil, there just 'is' in other words, good and evil are just perspectives of action, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Its just life and can be viewed through different lenses. God is above that, this good and evil is largely a consequence of this life and for our experience.

 

Hence the Crowley teaching - Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law.

 

The teachings we have from the Bible, muddled as they are in that book - contradictory sometimes - is because in this reality there is no definitive, its fluid, its got free will, so there are sometimes contradictory instructions to deal with extremes. That's how I see it.

 

But these teachings are guides to go by.

 

There's a discussion to be had here.

 

if a madman comes to my door armed with a knife and I, opening the door, allow him to stab me (resist not evil) I may well find I have a place in Heaven but I have condemned that man to 'Hell' Well what if he was innocent of all crime and went temporarily mad? I have helped him to commit evil so I may benefit. This doesn't seem very Christian . Far better I disarm him and seek for him medical assistance. If a struggle ensues and I kill him, I now have that stain, but I have the defense of acting in self defense, he gets put out of his misery and hopefully goes to heaven while I have to answer for my actions. That would be the more spiritually way to deal with the situation.

 

You see, it's not always exactly straight forward.

 

With regard to suicide, there is no evil, in the end, you life is your gift and what you do with it is your choice. That's the point of it, the Catholic doctrine that suicide is a sin is another of their fantasies like hell.

 

If your faced with an unimaginable choice and suicide is the best answer, God is not going to judge you badly for that. (And God doesn't really judge you, when you pass, you will judge yourself. (No hiding from that, you'll know all your dark secrets!))

 

 

[DaleP]

46 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

There's many levels, in the end there is no good or evil

 

And if you can delete the evil then there is only good for you if you know how.

The game has just got deeper into the rabbit hole. We have been mislead big time. Karma is given to you and you thought it was your fault all this time.

 

What you have wrote is a Christian thinking. Thinking is only thinking.

You need to know the basic structure of how this world is run.

Edited May 20 by DaleP

[pi3141]

11 hours ago, DaleP said:

What you have wrote is a Christian thinking. 

 

Yes it is, mostly Quaker Christianity, not Church of England, they have ministers in the army for Christ's sake!

 

But that thinking also aligns with Buddhism.

[Campion]

18 hours ago, pi3141 said:

OK so it's confusing. There's many levels, in the end there is no good or evil, there just 'is' in other words, good and evil are just perspectives of action, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Its just life and can be viewed through different lenses. God is above that, this good and evil is largely a consequence of this life and for our experience. 

 

Hence the Crowley teaching - Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law.

 

Thanks Pi, I can't do justice to all the depths of this subject but here's a few off the cuff  thoughts. Something within me rails against the idea that there's no right or wrong, and I wouldn't go so far as to say there's no right or wrong, just unpack it a little to distinguish between absolute vs relative (or objective vs subjective). 

 

The Crowley quote looks at first sight that it teaches a sort of Nietzschean individualistic will to power, but it's ambiguous - at least when taken out of context of how he would interpret it. It does imply that teaching if 'thou' means us as individuals, and 'law' mean natural or scientific law. 

 

But if 'thou' means God, then we're straight back into traditional Judeo-Christian ethics, where the 'law' is all about obeying God's will and he's telling us what to do. It all depends how you interpret it; so this teaching is relativistic too imo. 

[Macnamara]

3 hours ago, Campion said:

The Crowley quote looks at first sight that it teaches a sort of Nietzschean individualistic will to power, but it's ambiguous - at least when taken out of context of how he would interpret it. It does imply that teaching if 'thou' means us as individuals, and 'law' mean natural or scientific law.

 

'do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law' is only the first part of his decree

 

the second part is 'love is the law, love under will'

 

passio might be a good place to start to make sense of that as he's good at breaking down the meaning behind different words for example 'will' and 'love' and 'law'. These words all have specific meanings that might not be how they are used in common parlance

[Campion]

20 hours ago, Macnamara said:

'do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law' is only the first part of his decree

 

the second part is 'love is the law, love under will'

 

passio might be a good place to start to make sense of that as he's good at breaking down the meaning behind different words for example 'will' and 'love' and 'law'. These words all have specific meanings that might not be how they are used in common parlance

 

Thanks Mac, yes I can see how this stuff needs a lot of commentary to make it into an understandable and practical teaching, like with a lot of spiritual texts. But when we go to other authors to explain their version it creates new layers of teaching on top. It's the same when I'm learning about art. Ultimately it's not just the teaching of the original founder who we put on a pedestal, but over time it branches out and becomes communal property, with which I wrestle, create my own version and seek the truth as I see it. 

[pi3141]

@Campion

 

Here's a contradiction for you - 

 

'Resist the devil and he will flee from you' James 4:7

 

'Resist not evil'

Jesus, Sermon on the Mount.

[Campion]

14 hours ago, pi3141 said:

@Campion

 

Here's a contradiction for you - 

 

'Resist the devil and he will flee from you' James 4:7

 

'Resist not evil'

Jesus, Sermon on the Mount.

 

Nice one. Contradictions aren't necessarily bad, they're a teaching aid in the mystical traditions - as someone who used to practice Zen I've wrestled with a few. I reached a point where I needed to experience it first hand rather than trying to just analyse the illogic of it with the mind. How do I resist not the urge to resist? Trying not to resist is itself resistance. Like trying to relax isn't relaxing, or trying hard to pray is itself the barrier to God. Trying to meditate or become enlightened sends you straight to hell. 

 

It's where religion collides head on with the old chestnut of the free will debate. Without free will there can be no good or evil, and how can we have free will without having a separate ego who controls and is responsible for its actions? So the desire to be good and resist evil only strengthens our sense of ego which is where evil comes from in the first place!  The devil is supposed to be a fallen angel, and angels, unlike us apparently, don't have free will! So the devil is only acting out his programming given by God. 

 

Yes we need to fight evil in self defence, but don't expect fighting to eliminate evil. To do that you need to transcend both good and evil (lower case) such that they collapse into a unified Good (capital G), which is God himself, or God's Love, or Infinite Love or whatever you want to call it. 

 

Edited May 25 by Campion

[DaleP]

According to this video, it looks like hello & hi is not a good things to say.

They suggest Blessed but that is like Be less.

And praise the Lord (of this world)..... well Lucifer.

 

May be we should use foreign word like Ola?

Edited May 26 by DaleP

[pi3141]

3 hours ago, DaleP said:

According to this video, it looks like hello & hi is not a good things to say.

They suggest Blessed but that is like Be less.

And praise the Lord (of this world)..... well Lucifer.

 

May be we should use foreign word like Ola?

 

And then there's 'Yes'

 

If it were possible to be mistaken in the significancy of the mono- gram of Bacchus, the I H S, to whose honour, in conjunction with Ceres, these holy mysteries were distinctively dedicated, the insertion of those letters in a circle of rays of glory 9 over the centre of the holy table, is an hieroglyphic that depends not on the fallibility of translation, but conveys a sense that cannot be misread by any eye on which the sun's light shines. I H S are Greek characters, by ignorance taken for Roman letters ; and Yes, which is the proper reading of those letters, is none other than the very identical name of Bacchus, that is, of the Sun, of which Bacchus was one of the most distinguished personifications ; and Yes, or Ies, with the Latin termination us, added to it is Jesus. The surrounding rays of glory, as expressive of the sun's light, make the identity of Christ and Bacchus as clear as the sun. 

[DaleP]

OK, so the bible verse makes sense now when it says, "I create both good and evil"

Of course! The people who wrote are Jewish so their God YHVH/Elohim in the bible who sits at the top of the Kabbalistic Tree of life. The other side of Elohim who creates evil sits at the bottom hence he creates both good and bad. Now you know who the God of the bible is.

 

Fish in Kabbalah means demons so all you Christians who wear the badge of fish......

Edited May 26 by DaleP

[Jason57]

I would like to get people's opinion on prayer if this is true. Was Yeshua (Jesus) praying to the Demiurge?

[DaleP]

Check this out. Good and evil Elohim created the Archangels and demons.

 

Have you ever watched a movie called The Matrix? Yeah the one with Neo, Trinity and Morpheus.

If so, good Christians have participated in what is considered a hardcore left hand path ritual which black magicians call it the Qlipoth path....according to the top UK expert. No wonder we live in hell. We was right! But don't worry, likes of lightworkers, religious people, freemasons, police, members of OTO, Rosecruicians.....are all mislead and made as scapegoats. We can all scream in hades together. OR better learn about hell and hopefully get out. From what I've experienced, the hell realm entities are nasty. You all complain about this world but to me, this is like a very good holiday, wonderful compare to what awaits us. btw, a famous magician Crowley didn't make it. Hope you have more knowledge than him. No wonder our memories are wiped otherwise children would tell us where they came from, instead, they come from some heavenly realm..... You don't have to believe me. Contemplate on it.

 

sorry truth sucks....oops, truth meant to set you free.

All the best!

[Jason57]

16 hours ago, DaleP said:

Check this out. Good and evil Elohim created the Archangels and demons.

 

Have you ever watched a movie called The Matrix? Yeah the one with Neo, Trinity and Morpheus.

If so, good Christians have participated in what is considered a hardcore left hand path ritual which black magicians call it the Qlipoth path....according to the top UK expert. No wonder we live in hell. We was right! But don't worry, likes of lightworkers, religious people, freemasons, police, members of OTO, Rosecruicians.....are all mislead and made as scapegoats. We can all scream in hades together. OR better learn about hell and hopefully get out. From what I've experienced, the hell realm entities are nasty. You all complain about this world but to me, this is like a very good holiday, wonderful compare to what awaits us. btw, a famous magician Crowley didn't make it. Hope you have more knowledge than him. No wonder our memories are wiped otherwise children would tell us where they came from, instead, they come from some heavenly realm..... You don't have to believe me. Contemplate on it.

 

sorry truth sucks....oops, truth meant to set you free.

All the best!

But, Hell is not a biblical word. It's a made up word that represents Hades or Sheol (both mean grave), Gehenna fire was a literal place outside Jerusalem. It was the city dump that was on fire constantly. Criminals were thrown onto that heap and left to die there.  Nothing to do with eternal concsious torment.

[Ethel]

When you are praying, if you are clear in your intent that the prayer is addressed to the source of all that is, the creator of all that it is, then this intention will direct the prayer to that source. 

 

I strongly doubt a demon created the entire universe.

[DaleP]

What IF there is no God, the said Creator?

What if that Creator is like electricity and gravity....mathematical, not like our consciousness or even spirits like dead people, angels an demons?

Do you play to your electricity sockets?