astralrocker2001 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 The thread title is my fear with Christianity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr H Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 I actually had similar thought other day. Especially considering how much bible has been changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 51 minutes ago, Mr H said: I actually had similar thought other day. Especially considering how much bible has been changed. Yahweh was a Caananite God. Their God of metallurgy. Canaanite as in child sacrificing, devil worshipping pagans. Jehovah is a corruption of an Egyptian trinity. Pagan again. The Old Testament God tells us he is a jealous and vengeful God. An eye for an eye and all that. Allows whole peoples, women and children to be slaughtered in his name. Very suspect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 55 minutes ago, Mr H said: I actually had similar thought other day. Especially considering how much bible has been changed. The KJV is the only Bible that hasn't been changed. The New KJV plus all the rest has, so these I would stay clear of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 5 minutes ago, pi3141 said: The Old Testament God tells us he is a jealous and vengeful God. An eye for an eye and all that. Allows whole peoples, women and children to be slaughtered in his name. Have you really looked into the reason why this was ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 5 minutes ago, alexa said: Have you really looked into the reason why this was ? There's no excuse for wholesale slaughter. Didn't Jesus teach you anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 2 minutes ago, pi3141 said: There's no excuse for wholesale slaughter. Yes there was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 6 minutes ago, alexa said: Yes there was. Resist not evil. Turn the other cheek. This is the way, not - slaughter thy enemies at will - that's the Satanic way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 13 minutes ago, pi3141 said: Resist not evil. Turn the other cheek. This is the way, not - slaughter thy enemies at will - that's the Satanic way. Not if risks the survival of humanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 21 minutes ago, alexa said: Not if risks the survival of humanity. Sorry Jesus was specific about evil, and he was correct. Using logic to justify violence is an error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 2 hours ago, pi3141 said: Sorry Jesus was specific about evil, and he was correct. Using logic to justify violence is an error. I'm a bit confused at this, what do you mean ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 41 minutes ago, alexa said: I'm a bit confused at this, what do you mean ? You don't fight evil with evil and you cannot excuse evil with the justification that its logical or 'for the greater good' Unfortunately it is possible in human affairs to justify it - if I get attacked i have a choice to defend and counterattack or subdue myself to it. Jesus taught to allow it to happen, if you respond with evil, you become evil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 31 minutes ago, pi3141 said: Jesus taught to allow it to happen, if you respond with evil, you become evil. Where in the bible did Jesus say this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 40 minutes ago, alexa said: Where in the bible did Jesus say this ? Resist not evil - Sermon on the Mount. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 19 minutes ago, pi3141 said: Resist not evil - Sermon on the Mount. Quote Perhaps the most important reason we should not resist an evil person is that Jesus Himself did not. Jesus practiced what He preached. When He was arrested and crucified, Jesus did not fight back or resist. He did not seek revenge or try and “get even” with His tormentors. Rather, He loved them and died for them, and He asked His Heavenly Father to forgive them for the wrong they committed (Luke 23:34). Following Jesus’ example, we should not resist an evil person. We, too, can choose to love and forgive those who have wronged us 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campion Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 Didn't Jesus overturn the tables of the money changers at the temple to resist them? If that was an exception to the rule, I wonder why? Perhaps because it was at the temple rather than in regular society? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campion Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 And he resisted the devil's evil temptation in the desert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 3 hours ago, Campion said: Didn't Jesus overturn the tables of the money changers at the temple to resist them? If that was an exception to the rule, I wonder why? Perhaps because it was at the temple rather than in regular society? That was an upset or a protest, no violence involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 3 hours ago, Campion said: And he resisted the devil's evil temptation in the desert. Again, no violence involved in resisting that one. He didn't use evil to overcome the situation. He simply refused. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr H Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 I did think I read while ago in the gospel of Thomas that when he was growing up, Jesus did zap people..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr H Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 "III. 1 But the son of Annas the scribe was standing there with Joseph; and he took a branch of a willow and dispersed the waters which Jesus had gathered together. 2 And when Jesus saw what was done, he was wroth and said unto him: O evil, ungodly, and foolish one, what hurt did the pools and the waters do thee? behold, now also thou shalt be withered like a tree, and shalt not bear leaves, neither root, nor fruit. 3 And straightway that lad withered up wholly" IV. 1 After that again he went through the village, and a child ran and dashed against his shoulder. And Jesus was provoked and said unto him: Thou shalt not finish thy course (lit. go all thy way). And immediately he fell down and died Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mr H said: "III. 1 But the son of Annas the scribe was standing there with Joseph; and he took a branch of a willow and dispersed the waters which Jesus had gathered together. 2 And when Jesus saw what was done, he was wroth and said unto him: O evil, ungodly, and foolish one, what hurt did the pools and the waters do thee? behold, now also thou shalt be withered like a tree, and shalt not bear leaves, neither root, nor fruit. 3 And straightway that lad withered up wholly" IV. 1 After that again he went through the village, and a child ran and dashed against his shoulder. And Jesus was provoked and said unto him: Thou shalt not finish thy course (lit. go all thy way). And immediately he fell down and died Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. Yes - But can we believe the Gospel of Thomas ? It also states that Jesus mixed up some mud & twelve sparrow birds flew out of it. Quote This child Jesus, when five years old, was playing in the ford of a mountain stream; and He collected the flowing waters into pools, and made them clear immediately, and by a word alone He made them obey Him. And having made some soft clay, He fashioned out of it twelve sparrows This reminds me of the nursery rhyme 'Sing a Song of Sixpence' Edited May 20 by alexa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campion Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 10 hours ago, pi3141 said: Again, no violence involved in resisting that one. He didn't use evil to overcome the situation. He simply refused. Ok thanks Pi, so it's just violent resistance which he is against. I haven't checked the original quotes in the Bible so I'll take your word for it. But I do also remember another passage about him not bringing peace but a sword. It all makes me think the context is important and we can't make generalisations out of specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sock muppet Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 On 5/19/2023 at 1:47 PM, alexa said: Not if risks the survival of humanity. 20 hours ago, pi3141 said: You don't fight evil with evil and you cannot excuse evil with the justification that its logical or 'for the greater good' Unfortunately it is possible in human affairs to justify it - if I get attacked i have a choice to defend and counterattack or subdue myself to it. Jesus taught to allow it to happen, if you respond with evil, you become evil. Be defiant in the face of evil, offer the other cheek also as a sign of defiance and purpose, stand your ground, never back down, hold the line in defense of good, you gave the chance and the warning to change course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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