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Mark 11:24


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I've really been struggling with this verse for year now. Whatever you ask in prayer, believing you have recieved, it will be yours. Now, when I pray for something that doesn't come to pass the usual Christian response is "It's not God's will" or "You don't have enough faith". That isn't what the verse says though.

 

Looking at that verse from a spiritual view or consious view, what do you believe this verse is saying? Is there a spiritual awakening that has to happen?

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2 hours ago, Jason57 said:

I've really been struggling with this verse for year now. Whatever you ask in prayer, believing you have recieved, it will be yours. Now, when I pray for something that doesn't come to pass the usual Christian response is "It's not God's will" or "You don't have enough faith". That isn't what the verse says though.

 

Looking at that verse from a spiritual view or consious view, what do you believe this verse is saying? Is there a spiritual awakening that has to happen?

 

It's not meant for this world but for the world to come, for instance, you don't like gravity so you pray to turn it off, nothing wrong with that but it ain't gonna happen, besides everyone will all die when sucked into the vacuum of space, so in conclusion we can also say that your prayer has been received, simple really, so be careful what you wish for, personally i go with, for good to triumph over evil, and love conquers all, so everyone can be happy and live full filling lives without doing to much damage to the cosmos, 👍:classic_smile:

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22 minutes ago, Jason57 said:

Thanks for the response, much appreciated. I've also had the thought that prayer was for the next world, but why would we need prayer in the next world?

 

The verse is telling you don't, 👍

Edited by sock muppet
oops that made no sense at all, now it does
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3 hours ago, Jason57 said:

Now, when I pray for something that doesn't come to pass the usual Christian response is "It's not God's will" or "You don't have enough faith". That isn't what the verse says though.

 

Yes it does say that - it's magical.

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3 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

 

Yes it does say that - it's magical.

 

Thanks, but I don't believe in the fairy tale version of Christianity, where everyting is taken literally. I because Christ was talking spiritually and possibly about the cosmos

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3 hours ago, Jason57 said:

Looking at that verse from a spiritual view or consious view, what do you believe this verse is saying? Is there a spiritual awakening that has to happen?

 

When you practice magic, it's not enough to dress up, light candles and say incantations, you have to believe.

 

Now this belief is a 'special' kind of belief, you have to jump the chasm, you really do have to believe as if its happened, BEFORE it's happened,  that's how you make it happen.

 

Like I said previously it's magical, magical instruction on prayer, which is interesting because the church tells you to stay away from magic but here they are teaching you the secret.

 

But to achieve that secret is like jumping a chasm in faith or belief, not many can make it.

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15 hours ago, Jason57 said:

I've really been struggling with this verse for year now. Whatever you ask in prayer, believing you have recieved, it will be yours. Now, when I pray for something that doesn't come to pass the usual Christian response is "It's not God's will" or "You don't have enough faith". That isn't what the verse says though.

 

Looking at that verse from a spiritual view or consious view, what do you believe this verse is saying? Is there a spiritual awakening that has to happen?

 

When you truly believe the power of prayer it can be supernatural.

 

The power of belief resides in its ability to do four things: Belief creates vision; Belief creates strength of will; Belief creates resilience; and Belief ignites and activates.

 

Ask yourself the main question 'WHY' do I Want this ?

 

 

 

 

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On 5/7/2023 at 2:54 PM, Jason57 said:

Whatever you ask in prayer, believing you have recieved, it will be yours.

 

I had to look up the verse, as I'm not a Christian or regular Bible reader, but it is familiar. I wonder how literal this translation is? Because there's a paradox here to do with time. You need to believe that while you ARE asking in prayer, you believe you HAVE received it already, and you WILL receive it in the future. How can you believe you've already received it before you do actually receive it? What's the point praying for something if you've already got it? When I see paradox in spiritual literature then I reckon you're right that an awakening is needed. 

  

So what's the insight being pointed to here? For my tuppence (and that's probably all it's worth ha ha), it's kind of a trick question because if you're asking for something that's selfish or material like money or winning a game, it'll miss the paradox test. Because, if you already believed you had it, you wouldn't be asking for it and there's no point receiving it again in the future. What about if the awakening (code-named for the masses as "believing"), is to realise that what you thought you wanted, is already the case. Like praying for God's Love or forgiveness or something like that; it already exists but we don't realise it until we have the awakening. 

 

So the interpretation that you're not receiving it because you don't have enough faith or something is, well, not really a fail of the test because it's not about passing or failing, but is to show our level of awakening and help us to see where we can do some work on. 

 

Edited by Campion
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58 minutes ago, Campion said:

 

I had to look up the verse, as I'm not a Christian or regular Bible reader, but it is familiar. I wonder how literal this translation is? Because there's a paradox here to do with time. You need to believe that while you ARE asking in prayer, you believe you HAVE received it already, and you WILL receive it in the future. How can you believe you've already received it before you do actually receive it? What's the point praying for something if you've already got it? When I see paradox in spiritual literature then I reckon you're right that an awakening is needed. 

  

So what's the insight being pointed to here? For my tuppence (and that's probably all it's worth ha ha), it's kind of a trick question because if you're asking for something that's selfish or material like money or winning a game, it'll miss the paradox test. Because, if you already believed you had it, you wouldn't be asking for it and there's no point receiving it again in the future. What about if the awakening (code-named for the masses as "believing"), is to realise that what you thought you wanted, is already the case. Like praying for God's Love or forgiveness or something like that; it already exists but we don't realise it until we have the awakening. 

 

So the interpretation that you're not receiving it because you don't have enough faith or something is, well, not really a fail of the test because it's not about passing or failing, but is to show our level of awakening and help us to see where we can do some work on. 

 

Very interesting thoughts. Thanks.

 

The problem I have with the Bible and Christianity is it has been edited so much over the centuries, and Christians will say if a prayer doesn't come to pass "It's not God's will" or "You didn't have enough faith". However, that's not Biblical. I believe Christ was definetly in connection with God/the spirit of love and was used to draw people nearer to the truth, but religion seems to stifle us.  When it says WHATEVER you desire, that doesn't seem to imply any conditions.

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50 minutes ago, Jason57 said:

When it says WHATEVER you desire, that doesn't seem to imply any conditions.

 

It does because it's asking your morality to come forth also, and then a dialogue will emerge of a philosophical nature between right and wrong, motivational reasons from heart, mind, body and soul for asking in the first place between you and God, you and Creator, 👍

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12 hours ago, Jason57 said:

Very interesting thoughts. Thanks.

 

The problem I have with the Bible and Christianity is it has been edited so much over the centuries, and Christians will say if a prayer doesn't come to pass "It's not God's will" or "You didn't have enough faith". However, that's not Biblical. I believe Christ was definetly in connection with God/the spirit of love and was used to draw people nearer to the truth, but religion seems to stifle us.  When it says WHATEVER you desire, that doesn't seem to imply any conditions.

 

Yes I agree about the distortion of scriptures over time, not to mention the issues of translation and changes in meanings over time. Not to mention the sensitive question of whether the original speaker of the words was as wise and enlightened as we like to think - are we putting them on too high a pedestal and hero-worshipping them too much (no offence intended but I'm  not a Christian and have to consider that Jesus was an ordinary limited human being). 

 

 And sure, the "it's not God's will" etc thing looks like  they're just trying to make up a story so it fits the scriptures and their world view remains intact. I guess if you do  good spiritual practice you will find out your own level of faith.  The thing is, there's a whole context around this saying and if we take snippets of text out of context and try to make sense of them in isolation we're likely to miss something.  So, was it really meant as a universal teaching for everyone to follow, or just a specific person at that time in history? Looking at the whole of chapter 11, it occurs when Jesus entered Jerusalem with all the dramatic events round that time, so perhaps it relates to that piece of the overall picture of Jesus' life. 

Edited by Campion
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10 hours ago, Campion said:

 

Yes I agree about the distortion of scriptures over time, not to mention the issues of translation and changes in meanings over time. Not to mention the sensitive question of whether the original speaker of the words was as wise and enlightened as we like to think - are we putting them on too high a pedestal and hero-worshipping them too much (no offence intended but I'm  not a Christian and have to consider that Jesus was an ordinary limited human being). 

 

 And sure, the "it's not God's will" etc thing looks like  they're just trying to make up a story so it fits the scriptures and their world view remains intact. I guess if you do  good spiritual practice you will find out your own level of faith.  The thing is, there's a whole context around this saying and if we take snippets of text out of context and try to make sense of them in isolation we're likely to miss something.  So, was it really meant as a universal teaching for everyone to follow, or just a specific person at that time in history? Looking at the whole of chapter 11, it occurs when Jesus entered Jerusalem with all the dramatic events round that time, so perhaps it relates to that piece of the overall picture of Jesus' life. 

I'm not a Christian either mate. I believe Christ to be who he said he is. However, Christ didn't start Christianity, it's a worldly religion. I know a lot of religious people love to say "heretic" or "false teacher" if you go against their views, but I just don't agree with that.

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3 hours ago, Jason57 said:

I believe Christ to be who he said he is.

 

Who did he say he is? From memory his most frequent phrase (according to the canonical gospels at any rate) is 'Son of Man'. And yet that enigmatic phrase was never seems to get much attention. 

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He did say he was the son of Man. I believe Christ was here to demonstrate that we all have the spirit of God/love in us, we just don't know or understand how to use it. The whole "Jesus was a ransom for humanity" just doesn't fit for me.

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2 hours ago, Jason57 said:

He did say he was the son of Man. I believe Christ was here to demonstrate that we all have the spirit of God/love in us, we just don't know or understand how to use it. The whole "Jesus was a ransom for humanity" just doesn't fit for me.

 

Yes, that moves it from being a religion of sacrifice - animal or human sacrifices to appease the Gods - to one of realisation. Realisation of divinity within,  Buddha nature, the spark of God, the Tao, the Awen etc. 

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On 5/7/2023 at 7:54 AM, Jason57 said:

I've really been struggling with this verse for year now. Whatever you ask in prayer, believing you have recieved, it will be yours. Now, when I pray for something that doesn't come to pass the usual Christian response is "It's not God's will" or "You don't have enough faith". That isn't what the verse says though.

 

Looking at that verse from a spiritual view or consious view, what do you believe this verse is saying? Is there a spiritual awakening that has to happen?

 

I believe the answer lies in the context of the passages preceding Mark 11:24.

 

This is a very deep and profound subject and would take a long time to explain, however I will give some basics beginning with these verses...

 

Mark 11:20-21

"And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away."

 

We can see from the above that the subject is the Fig Tree. Keep that in mind when reading what Jesus said...

 

Mark 11:23
"For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith."

 

Did Jesus just completely change the subject from the Fig Tree to the Mountain? No. The two are synonymous with one another.

 

The Mountain is the Fig Tree. Thus, to solve the riddle, One must understand what these two symbols mean and why they must be cast into the Sea.

 

Jesus does something similar here...

 

Matthew 17:20
"And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

 

Seed and Mountain are connected to the previous verse...

 

Matthew 17:18
"And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour."

 

The 'Mountain' was the Devil that was cast out.

 

Put the pieces together...

 

Mountain = Fig Tree = Seed = Devil

 

What is being taught here in a subtle way is that the so-called 'Mountain' is not a mound of dirt, but symbolic of the Devil and the Genetics of Man.

 

One more hint...

 

Mountains in the Bible are symbolic of the Male Generative Principle.

 

So ultimately, the answer to your questions relies on a greater understanding of how all of these symbols relate to Faith, Prayer and even the meaning of Life itself.

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1 hour ago, Base12 said:

 

I believe the answer lies in the context of the passages preceding Mark 11:24.

 

This is a very deep and profound subject and would take a long time to explain, however I will give some basics beginning with these verses...

 

Mark 11:20-21

"And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away."

 

We can see from the above that the subject is the Fig Tree. Keep that in mind when reading what Jesus said...

 

Mark 11:23
"For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith."

 

Did Jesus just completely change the subject from the Fig Tree to the Mountain? No. The two are synonymous with one another.

 

The Mountain is the Fig Tree. Thus, to solve the riddle, One must understand what these two symbols mean and why they must be cast into the Sea.

 

Jesus does something similar here...

 

Matthew 17:20
"And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

 

Seed and Mountain are connected to the previous verse...

 

Matthew 17:18
"And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour."

 

The 'Mountain' was the Devil that was cast out.

 

Put the pieces together...

 

Mountain = Fig Tree = Seed = Devil

 

What is being taught here in a subtle way is that the so-called 'Mountain' is not a mound of dirt, but symbolic of the Devil and the Genetics of Man.

 

One more hint...

 

Mountains in the Bible are symbolic of the Male Generative Principle.

 

So ultimately, the answer to your questions relies on a greater understanding of how all of these symbols relate to Faith, Prayer and even the meaning of Life itself.

Brilliant analysis. Never have I heard it put that way. Do you suppose doubt is the mountain/Devil is man that needs to be cast out?

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On 5/7/2023 at 8:54 AM, Jason57 said:

I've really been struggling with this verse for year now. Whatever you ask in prayer, believing you have recieved, it will be yours. Now, when I pray for something that doesn't come to pass the usual Christian response is "It's not God's will" or "You don't have enough faith". That isn't what the verse says though.

 

Looking at that verse from a spiritual view or consious view, what do you believe this verse is saying? Is there a spiritual awakening that has to happen?

My understanding is that the teaching is trying to get the student to understand that they, themselves God, literally, and within the physical constraints on this plane, you can create whatever it is you want with this knowledge.

 

Reasons why it may not work is due to the belief that you are a limited separate entity praying to an imaginary larger entity asking for help, when the person you should be asking for help was yourself for you are the master creator, you are God.

 

My 2 cents

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5 hours ago, Jason57 said:

Brilliant analysis. Never have I heard it put that way. Do you suppose doubt is the mountain/Devil is man that needs to be cast out?

 

Thanks. The Mountain could definitely represent doubt or any other obstacle that is in our way.

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On 5/7/2023 at 2:54 PM, Jason57 said:

Whatever you ask in prayer, believing you have recieved

 

This is true to me.

I guess, whether an object, a person or information you desire, request come in the next 30 mins or 3 years.... depends on your circumstance.

There are many variables for it being manifested in your life. A lot to do with energy you have e.g. less or more of it.

But in the outside of space/time realm, everything is already there hence the bible verse is correct even though within this realm, it takes 'time' for it to manifest.

In the realm of so called 'magic', you can bend time, quicken something to happen etc. Details of variables e.g. all the reasons why it does not manifest, are listed in this book.

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