What is a soul?

[Mr H]

I've heard a lot of people speak about a soul. I've read in books people mention a soul. It's used in language a lot , "soulful music". But I've never seen a clear definition of what a soul is.

 

So what is a soul?

 

Can we experience a soul? And if not, is it just a human made concept?

[alexa]

1 hour ago, Mr H said:

I've heard a lot of people speak about a soul. I've read in books people mention a soul. It's used in language a lot , "soulful music". But I've never seen a clear definition of what a soul is.

 

So what is a soul?

 

Can we experience a soul? And if not, is it just a human made concept?

 

In 'The Legend of the Jews' it reads;

 

THE SOUL OF MAN The care which God exercised in fashioning every detail of the body of man is as naught in comparison with his solicitude for the human soul.

The soul of man was created on the first day, for it is the spirit of God moving upon the face of the waters.

Thus, instead of being the last, man is really the first work of creation.

This spirit, or, to call it by its usual name, the soul of man, possesses five different powers. By means of one of them she escapes from the body every night, rises up to heaven, and fetches new life thence for man.

With the soul of Adam the souls of all the generations of men were created. They are stored up in a promptuary, in the seventh of the heavens, whence they are drawn as they are needed for human body after human body.

 

https://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/e-books/misc/Legends/Legends of the Jews.pdf

Click on Chapter II Adam then scroll down to 'The Soul'

 

Apparently the soul, when you are just a fetus learns every thing about how your life will span out, but forgets at the point of birth, but at the point of death re-members & is accountable.

Edited February 19 by alexa

[Campion]

3 hours ago, Mr H said:

I've heard a lot of people speak about a soul. I've read in books people mention a soul. It's used in language a lot , "soulful music". But I've never seen a clear definition of what a soul is.

 

So what is a soul?

 

Can we experience a soul? And if not, is it just a human made concept?

 

I think soul is the ancient name for what we now call mind. It's the non-physical or subjective aspect of us. 

 

In which case, you're experiencing "your" mind every waking moment. Although it's a circular expression to say you have a soul/mind if that's what you are. 

 

Ever had an out of body experience? That could be where the idea comes from of souls existing separately from the body, and by extension life after death. 

[Mr H]

1 hour ago, Campion said:

 

I think soul is the ancient name for what we now call mind. It's the non-physical or subjective aspect of us. 

 

In which case, you're experiencing "your" mind every waking moment. Although it's a circular expression to say you have a soul/mind if that's what you are. 

 

Ever had an out of body experience? That could be where the idea comes from of souls existing separately from the body, and by extension life after death. 

Yeah I've had many out of body experience.

 

And my experience of mind is that mind is an object, and the subjective objectless part of me experience mind in the same way it experience a body. I call that consciousness. Maybe this is what people refer to as soul?

 

From my readings many people write that a soul is like a vapour in consciousness, or a flavouring of consciousness that seeks to progress spiritually through physical experience and existence, towards a realisation that it is not a separate entity and finds home in it's true nature which is pure consciousness. An ascension process if you will.

 

But this is again just a story and difficult to verify and also doesn't quite articulate what a soul is or how and what it is constructed.

Edited February 19 by Mr H

[alexa]

6 minutes ago, Mr H said:

Yeah I've had many out of body experience.

 

And my experience of mind is that mind is an object, and the subjective objectless part of me experience mind in the same way it experience a body. I call that consciousness. Maybe this is what people refer to as soul?

 

From my readings many people write that a soul is like a vapour in consciousness, or a flavouring of consciousness that seeks to progress spiritually through physical experience and existence, towards a realisation that it is not a separate entity and finds home in it's true nature which is pure consciousness. An ascension process if you will.

 

But this is again just a story and difficult to verify and also doesn't quite articulate what a soul is or how and what it is constructed.

 

I did read that the soul leaves the body every night, could this be where our dreams comes from ?

[Stone Lion]

I've recently been reading Rudolf Steiner (<- I recommend this if you want to know more about us human beings), and it changed my perspective of what "soul", and "spirit" is. I didn't believe in the latter, until I could make sense of it.
 

(From what I understand and correct me if i'm wrong, soul is what attracts and repulses experiences. it is part of our being, but not the ultimate being, opposed to what I used to believe. The soul is a combination of imagination, desires and feelings. Spirit is, according to Rudolf Steiner, what gives life to soul by means of pure thinking, pure feeling and pure willing. He also compares the entire human being within 7 sorts of beings)

I'm not sure if i'm explaining this well, I did a search on google and found this (https://www.anthromedics.org/BAS-0347-EN)! Maybe this explains it better :)

 

 

Entity in the human being	Related to	Basis for	Connection to
“I”-organization	individuality, spirit	self-awareness, self-determined experience and action	warmth
Astral organization	soul	development of consciousness, sensitivity, movement, degenerative metabolic processes	air
Etheric organization	formative and life processes	growth, regeneration, health recovery, salutogenetic ability, upbuilding metabolic processes	fluids
Physical organization	body, form	form in space	solid, mineral

 

 

Hope this helps.

[nicolew]

We don't have a soul, we are a soul, an eternal, multidimensional spirit having a human experience ......

[Mr H]

1 hour ago, alexa said:

 

I did read that the soul leaves the body every night, could this be where our dreams comes from ?

From my experience. Dream state is just as valid as the waking state, and I would argue closer to reality to the waking state.

 

In pure consciousness state everything is possible. As we go down the "layers" we contract and the waking state is the most contracted and limited state. Many more possibilities arise in the dream state.

 

Both are viewing points of consciousness.

[Mr H]

54 minutes ago, Stone Lion said:

I've recently been reading Rudolf Steiner (<- I recommend this if you want to know more about us human beings), and it changed my perspective of what "soul", and "spirit" is. I didn't believe in the latter, until I could make sense of it.
 

(From what I understand and correct me if i'm wrong, soul is what attracts and repulses experiences. it is part of our being, but not the ultimate being, opposed to what I used to believe. The soul is a combination of imagination, desires and feelings. Spirit is, according to Rudolf Steiner, what gives life to soul by means of pure thinking, pure feeling and pure willing. He also compares the entire human being within 7 sorts of beings)

I'm not sure if i'm explaining this well, I did a search on google and found this (https://www.anthromedics.org/BAS-0347-EN)! Maybe this explains it better :)

 

 

Entity in the human being	Related to	Basis for	Connection to
“I”-organization	individuality, spirit	self-awareness, self-determined experience and action	warmth
Astral organization	soul	development of consciousness, sensitivity, movement, degenerative metabolic processes	air
Etheric organization	formative and life processes	growth, regeneration, health recovery, salutogenetic ability, upbuilding metabolic processes	fluids
Physical organization	body, form	form in space	solid, mineral

 

 

Hope this helps.

Awesome I will definitely take a look.

[Campion]

2 hours ago, Mr H said:

And my experience of mind is that mind is an object, and the subjective objectless part of me experience mind in the same way it experience a body. I call that consciousness. Maybe this is what people refer to as soul?

 

One of my spiritual interests is the nonduality movement, where ideas like this are discussed. Some call it consciousness, others awareness, and one of the practices is a meditation on "awareness of awareness". I've come across a mixture of views: some folks make a distinction between pure awareness and the contents of awareness (ie mind objects like thoughts, feelings, sense-perceptions); and the view I take which is no such distinction (meaning that everything we perceive is part of awareness and in effect there is panpsychism). 

[Mr H]

Yes totally agree. The notion of I separate from objective experience is usually used as a thorn to remove a thorn, and is a step towards everything actually is consciousness, so a progression from the observer, towards I am also that.

[Macnamara]

12 hours ago, Mr H said:

Can we experience a soul?

 

Another question might be: does objective morality exist? In which case can we feed or starve our soul of that?

 

If we believe it does then we can ask ourself if we think that aligning ourself with it brings us a different outcome to going against it?

 

We know that psychopaths have no emotional empathy for others and therefore experience no regret and no remorse for their actions which harm others. However when they are allowed free reign to create the world in their image does that then bring a more positive experience for the mass of humanity or does it create a negative experience?

 

In which case are we then able to objectively make some observations about what is healthiest for ourselves as individuals and as wider societies?

 

Can we observe things about people and the outcomes of their choices that can act as a guide to these questions?

 

Can we observe things about our own lives from different outcomes that we have experienced from different choices?

Edited February 19 by Macnamara

[Mr H]

5 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 

Another question might be: does objective morality exist? In which case can we feed or starve our soul of that?

 

If we believe it does then we can ask ourself if we think that aligning ourself with it brings us a different outcome to going against it?

 

We know that psychopaths have no emotional empathy for others and therefore experience no regret and no remorse for their actions which harm others. However when they are allowed free reign to create the world in their image does that then bring a more positive experience for the mass of humanity or does it create a negative experience?

 

In which case are we then able to objectively make some observations about what is healthiest for ourselves as individuals and as wider societies?

 

Can we observe things about people and the outcomes of their choices that can act as a guide to these questions?

 

Can we observe things about our own lives from different outcomes that we have experienced from different choices?

Wasn't quite sure how this relates to a soul.

 

But I don't believe there is objective morality no. Morality comes from intelligence, culture and survival instinct.

 

I don't think consciousness or god or whatever you want to call it cares about morality. A) because there is evil in the world and b) because consciousness itself can't be harmed and we are that, ultimately no one essentially gets harmed if we reduce it back to source experience. Objective experience is a bit like Groundhog day for consciousness.

Edited February 20 by Mr H

[Macnamara]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:49 AM, Mr H said:

Wasn't quite sure how this relates to a soul.

 

you asked if we could experience a soul so i was talking about morality and asking whether or not that is the path to exhalting the soul

 

The 'anima mundi' is the 'soul of the world' and is the divine essence that permeates all things. Eastern religions describe an awareness of it as 'nirvana'

 

On 2/20/2023 at 12:49 AM, Mr H said:

But I don't believe there is objective morality no.

 

so you don't think some behaviours will create positive outcomes whilst other behaviours will produce negative outcomes?

 

On 2/20/2023 at 12:49 AM, Mr H said:

Morality comes from intelligence, culture and survival instinct.

 

your argument would be loved by pedos as they could try and argue that all people are therefore mutable and society by extension is mutable and therefore society could be taken through steps towards a normalisation of pedophilia

 

On 2/20/2023 at 12:49 AM, Mr H said:

I don't think consciousness or god or whatever you want to call it cares about morality. A) because there is evil in the world and b) because consciousness itself can't be harmed and we are that, ultimately no one essentially gets harmed if we reduce it back to source experience.

 

you don't think you are drifting into solipcism and therefore into moral reletavism?

 

On 2/20/2023 at 12:49 AM, Mr H said:

Objective experience is a bit like Groundhog day for consciousness.

 

are you bored by the life experience?

Edited February 21 by Macnamara

[Mr H]

3 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 

you asked if we could experience a soul so i was talking about morality and asking whether or not that is the path to exhalting the soul

 

The 'anima mundi' is the 'soul of the world' and is the divine essence that permeates all things. Eastern religions describe an awareness of it as 'nirvana'

 

 

so you don't think some behaviours will create positive outcomes whilst other behaviours will produce negative outcomes?

 

 

your argument would be loved by pedos as they could try and argue that all people are therefore mutable and society by extension is mutable and therefore society could be taken through steps towards a normalisation of pedophilia

 

 

you don't think you are drifting into solipcism and therefore into moral reletavism?

 

 

are you bored by the life experience?

Don't know how to quote parts separately so will label with no's.

 

1.  In the human experience there exists cause and effect. But the outcome, whether it's positive or negative is subjective and relative to the human in question. at the level of consciousness there is no positive or negative. 

 

2. I have no idea what paedos would argue.

 

3. Nope I'm quite the opposite of solipsism. That implies only my finite mind and experience is real, which is clearly not the case. All finite minds experiences are just as real. But there is only one observer if we can call it that of all finite minds. There is only one consciousness/ god. Our minds are just multiple viewing points.

 

Indeed if that's what I believed I wouldn't need to have this conversation with you, because you would just be part of my imagination and I'd already know what you are going to say if I believed in solipsism.

 

4. If you're asking my finite mind experience then no. I suggest one of the reasons why this experience has limitations, is so we don't get bored and create stuff. 

Edited February 21 by Mr H

[Macnamara]

20 hours ago, Mr H said:

2. I have no idea what paedos would argue.

 

they would argue what you were saying there: that it's all down to culture and that it is in fact our fault for stigmatising them!

[Mr H]

43 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

they would argue what you were saying there: that it's all down to culture and that it is in fact our fault for stigmatising them!

Well to be honest I don't know of any culture that is for paedophillia.

 

But yes people can misappropriate all kinds of stuff I guess 

[Macnamara]

2 hours ago, Mr H said:

Well to be honest I don't know of any culture that is for paedophillia.

 

then that would imply an inbuilt morality and a natural law. If that is then transgressed because of some individuals subjective deviancy then there is going to be trouble which means that the morality is not subjective as far as the community is concerned. They have an objective morality and disagree with the deviant's argument that their subjective view is as valid

 

So what happens then if the deviant teams up with other deviants and gains control over the levers of power? That is going to cause big trouble. So then we can say that certain choices WILL have bad outcomes

[Mr H]

1 hour ago, Macnamara said:

 

then that would imply an inbuilt morality and a natural law. If that is then transgressed because of some individuals subjective deviancy then there is going to be trouble which means that the morality is not subjective as far as the community is concerned. They have an objective morality and disagree with the deviant's argument that their subjective view is as valid

 

So what happens then if the deviant teams up with other deviants and gains control over the levers of power? That is going to cause big trouble. So then we can say that certain choices WILL have bad outcomes

Yes it is not subjective as far as community is concerned and I pointed to that earlier, morality comes from.culture, survival instinct and intelligence. 

 

From the perspective of human experience there are bad outcomes yes as I also pointed out earlier. From the perspective of consciousness/ god in original form, however there is no good or bad everything is accepted, otherwise it wouldn't be.

 

This is the explanation to the question why does God allow evil in the world? Because from god's ultimate perspective there is no such thing as evil. This is unique to the human experience and therefore if you wish to fight evil there is no point asking God for help, you must do it yourself. Because it exists from human perspective only.

 

We can also be contradictory here and say that you, as an extension of god acknowledges evil exists and therefore God does acknowledge evil. This statement although contradictory is also true.

 

Edited February 22 by Mr H

[xpwales]

Ken L. Wheeler talks about the Soul in this video...

 

 

[xpwales]

This is my own interpretation/guesswork based on Ken Wheeler's work...

 

 

 

[xpwales]

Some Interesting References:

 

https://archive.org/details/the-universal-one-1926-walter-russell

 

Ken Wheeler's book on water ("The Antenna to Consciousness")

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1plnTHFFXuc3zSvLGfpK-b-FeToEFbeRK/view

 

Ken Wheeler's book on Magnetism (Aether)

Uncovering the missing secrets of magnetism (pdf).

[webtrekker]

Ken Wheeler? I'd sooner believe Gates and Fauci!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23 by webtrekker

[Mr H]

13 hours ago, xpwales said:

This is my own interpretation/guesswork based on Ken Wheeler's work...

 

 

 

Thanks it's interesting. But can we experience this? Otherwise it's just theory and an idea.

[xpwales]

I guess that we can experience the effects of water (the antenna to consciousness) on our psycho-physical consciousness; It is said that some people experience clarity of thought or inspirational ideas (inventions etc.) whilst bathing/swimming in water, and this is supposedly due to the water either amplifying or providing better gain to the signal (consciousness). On the other hand, we can experience memory loss or thought capacity reduction when we are dehydrated/overheated.

 

I would also say that it is our higher being (Soul) that determines the template of our physical body, to organise about 38 trillion cells into the animated matter that we call human/animal/life; and also to maintain our immune system, new cell production, heart rate and breathing. We don't consciously think about maintaining our heart rate or remembering to breath every couple of seconds, there must be a higher consciousness/awareness in control of this.

 

Some people also recollect events/traumas of past-lives or automatically inherit unique skills that would normally require years of training. This would suggest that our higher-being/soul existed before our current incarnation and will therefore probably exist after. It has also been suggested that Birthmarks and conditions such as Asthma are attributed past incarnations.