Campion Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, alexa said: I take Gods word literally. No offence intended, but do you mean that literally or are you being tongue in cheek? It's hard to tell in forums sometimes. Just checking before asking my question: what about the parables in the New Testament? Are they stories about historically true events, or simply teaching aids to illustrate the moral truths Jesus was trying to communicate? Edited December 11, 2022 by Campion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 3 hours ago, Campion said: Just checking before asking my question: what about the parables in the New Testament? Are they stories about historically true events, or simply teaching aids to illustrate the moral truths Jesus was trying to communicate? Of course not the parables, these are of what you say a teaching aid for the moral truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) On 12/11/2022 at 8:53 PM, alexa said: The Bible also seems to say the Earth is flat and no verses are against this. The word seems in your answer is very telling , so in actual fact you haven't got a clue the bible indicates if the earth is flat or not,simply brilliant! https://flatearthdeception.com/biblical-proofs-of-the-globe-earth/ according to this fellow's take on the bible the earth seems to be a globe,so what you have is just an opinion with no evidence and hollow opinions are a dime a dozen unless of course you work in a bakers shop Edited December 13, 2022 by peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, peter said: The word seems in your answer is very telling , so in actual fact you haven't got a clue the bible indicates if the earth is flat or not,simply brilliant! https://flatearthdeception.com/biblical-proofs-of-the-globe-earth/ according to this fellow's take on the bible the earth seems to be a globe,so what you have is just an opinion with no evidence and hollow opinions are a dime a dozen unless of course you work in a bakers shop This was a quote from linenum's link, he asked for options and I posted number 1. I should have put it in quotes, sorry about that. https://lifesplayer.com/bible.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linenum Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, peter said: The word seems in your answer is very telling , so in actual fact you haven't got a clue the bible indicates if the earth is flat or not,simply brilliant! https://flatearthdeception.com/biblical-proofs-of-the-globe-earth/ according to this fellow's take on the bible the earth seems to be a globe,so what you have is just an opinion with no evidence and hollow opinions are a dime a dozen unless of course you work in a bakers shop From: https://lifesplayer.com/bible.php Quote The Bible also seems to say the Earth is flat and no verses are against this (see counter arguments). In that full quote it also included a link to counter arguments. In that counter arguments link it only uses scientific reasons to believe in a globe rather than any Bible verses. Some verses in the Bible are kind of compatible with a globe (e.g. Isaiah 40:22's "above the circle of the earth") but I'm not aware of any Bible verses that contradict the idea of a flat earth - unless you know of any... ? Edited December 13, 2022 by linenum 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linenum Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 A bit related to the God-commanded genocide is this: Isaiah 63:2-6 Quote Why are your clothes red? They look as if you have been stomping on grapes in a winepress. The Lord answers, “I have been stomping on the nations as if they were grapes. No one was there to help me. I walked all over the nations because I was angry. That is why I stomped on them. Their blood splashed all over my clothes. So my clothes were stained bright red. I decided it was time to pay back Israel’s enemies. The year for me to set my people free had come. I looked around, but no one was there to help me. I was shocked that no one gave me any help. So I used my own power to save my people. I had the strength to do it because I was angry. I walked all over the nations because I was angry with them. I made them drink from the cup of my great anger. I poured out their blood on the ground.” I want to put this into a video game.... here is a voice over: https://brutal-bible.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/mp3/grape_stomper.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velma Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 "Save nothing alive that breatheth." Destroy their places of worship, homes, livestock, trees, men, women and children, much like they do in Palestine today. Sounds like genocide to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 3 hours ago, linenum said: From: https://lifesplayer.com/bible.php In that full quote it also included a link to counter arguments. In that counter arguments link it only uses scientific reasons to believe in a globe rather than any Bible verses. Some verses in the Bible are kind of compatible with a globe (e.g. Isaiah 40:22's "above the circle of the earth") but I'm not aware of any Bible verses that contradict the idea of a flat earth - unless you know of any... ? No I don't but lets be honest, the passages that alexa quotes in the bible to indicate the earth is flat is rather tenuous at best (e.g. Isaiah 40:22's "above the circle of the earth") this is used more often that not as evidence for FE The question I would be asking is, what 2 dimensional geometric plane do you see when looking at a sphere from any vector 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linenum Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, peter said: No I don't but lets be honest, the passages that alexa quotes in the bible to indicate the earth is flat is rather tenuous at best In alexa's post they quoted this from this web page: "This means that God is perfectly just and loving, even if most people are going to hell, perhaps forever. The faith of a child is praised, while “the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight” (1 Corinthians 3:18-19). With a plain reading of the Bible it seems the world was created a few days before humans were. The Bible also seems to say the Earth is flat and no verses are against this (see counter arguments)." They didn't include the last few words and that is the only thing they had posted about a flat earth - they didn't mention any passages. Perhaps you mixed alexa up with me. 11 hours ago, peter said: (e.g. Isaiah 40:22's "above the circle of the earth") this is used more often that not as evidence for FE That is just about the only verse that could support a globe so then I think it is reasonable to say "The Bible also seems to say the Earth is flat and no verses are against this". 11 hours ago, peter said: The question I would be asking is, what 2 dimensional geometric plane do you see when looking at a sphere from any vector Here's the full verse of Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." "Circle" - fits a flat earth better "Above" - with a globe being "above" can be seen as being "below" from some point of views "people are like grasshoppers" - with a globe some people are on the opposite side of it so you can't see them "tent" - if you have a globe it is better to say "shell" - a tent doesn't fit very well for a globe I think the apparent support of a flat earth in the Bible is another test of faith - like the God-commanded genocide verses, etc. Some people believe in the flat earth because they think the Bible clearly says so. Edited December 13, 2022 by linenum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 3 hours ago, linenum said: Here's the full verse of Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." "Circle" - fits a flat earth better "Above" - with a globe being "above" can be seen as being "below" from some point of views "people are like grasshoppers" - with a globe some people are on the opposite side of it so you can't see them "tent" - if you have a globe it is better to say "shell" - a tent doesn't fit very well for a globe I think the apparent support of a flat earth in the Bible is another test of faith - like the God-commanded genocide verses, etc. Some people believe in the flat earth because they think the Bible clearly says so. No I didn't mix alexa with you,I used that as an example 1 Circle" - fits a flat earth better, really I don't think so 2"Above" - with a globe being "above" can be seen as being "below" from some point of views ,,,,no matter what vector you look a sphere from you will always be above it and always see a circle 3"people are like grasshoppers" - with a globe some people are on the opposite side of it so you can't see them,,, are you serious ,did you work that out yourself or copy it from someone with out thinking 4 "tent" - if you have a globe it is better to say "shell" - a tent doesn't fit very well for a globe,,, It would be better to use one word as apposed to another ,brilliant evidence once again, if tent doesn't fit a globe get a bigger tent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linenum Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, peter said: No I didn't mix alexa with you,I used that as an example 1 Circle" - fits a flat earth better, really I don't think so So you think "circle" describes a sphere better than a circular flat earth? 19 hours ago, peter said: 2"Above" - with a globe being "above" can be seen as being "below" from some point of views ,,,,no matter what vector you look a sphere from you will always be above it and always see a circle If God was sitting above the Middle East I would say that he is below people in the US. 19 hours ago, peter said: 3"people are like grasshoppers" - with a globe some people are on the opposite side of it so you can't see them,,, are you serious ,did you work that out yourself or copy it from someone with out thinking If you have a flat earth a person above it could see everyone (unless there are mountains in the way, etc). With a globe you can't see all of the countries at once so you wouldn't know if they look like grasshoppers because you couldn't see them. 19 hours ago, peter said: 4 "tent" - if you have a globe it is better to say "shell" - a tent doesn't fit very well for a globe,,, It would be better to use one word as apposed to another ,brilliant evidence once again, if tent doesn't fit a globe get a bigger tent A tent implies the object it is covering has ends. So you think it makes more sense to put up a tent around a ball than a flat circle? Anyway it is possible to force the idea of a globe into those verses but like you said earlier "this is used more often that not as evidence for FE" Edited December 14, 2022 by linenum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 (edited) 1 that's not what I said 2 there is no up or down in space 3 Isn't god supposed to be all seeing ,and knowing ,so flat or globe shouldn't matter 4 once again that is not what I said, and why dose the word tent imply that the object its covering has ends Edited December 15, 2022 by peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linenum Posted December 15, 2022 Author Share Posted December 15, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, peter said: 1 that's not what I said I said a circle "fits a flat earth better". You said "really I don't think so". Were you being sarcastic and actually agreed with me? That's confusing. 53 minutes ago, peter said: 2 there is no up or down in space With a flat earth there is always an "above". So are you saying "above" doesn't really fit a globe? (I mean "above" could be anywhere on a globe) 53 minutes ago, peter said: 3 Isn't god supposed to be all seeing ,and knowing ,so flat or globe shouldn't matter The Bible says a lot of things and isn't necessarily consistent. Anyway in this verse it says God is above the earth on a throne. He sees the people like grasshoppers because it says he is above the earth. With a flat earth there are no problems. With a globe the earth is blocking some of his view. 53 minutes ago, peter said: 4 once again that is not what I said, and why dose the word tent imply that the object its covering has ends Can you give any example of a tent ever being used on some type of spherical object? In the case of a flat earth it is a bit like a circus tent. As far as ends go, I've never heard of tents that join up together (like you'd need if you are covering a globe) Like I said it is possible to force the idea of a globe into those verses. And that the Bible never contradicts the idea of a flat earth. Edited December 15, 2022 by linenum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 On 12/15/2022 at 11:05 AM, linenum said: I said a circle "fits a flat earth better". You said "really I don't think so". Were you being sarcastic and actually agreed with me? That's confusing. With a flat earth there is always an "above". So are you saying "above" doesn't really fit a globe? (I mean "above" could be anywhere on a globe) (I mean "above" could be anywhere on a globe) With a flat earth there are no problems. With a globe the earth is blocking some of his view. Can you give any example of a tent ever being used on some type of spherical object? In the case of a flat earth it is a bit like a circus tent. As far as ends go, I've never heard of tents that join up together (like you'd need if you are covering a globe) Like I said it is possible to force the idea of a globe into those verses. And that the Bible never contradicts the idea of a flat earth. 1 A circle could be used to describe both a flat disc and a globe equally as well from a visual perspective 2 (I mean "above" could be anywhere on a globe) exactly that's what I said so we agree 3 ( He sees the people like grasshoppers because it says he is above the earth.) To me this has nothing to do with the earth being flat ,it could also be interpreted as. He sees himself above the earth due to his ego and therefore looks upon humanity as insects 4 (Can you give any example of a tent ever being used on some type of spherical object? In the case of a flat earth it is a bit like a circus tent. As far as ends go, I've never heard of tents that join up together (like you'd need if you are covering a globe), Well thought out,you have never thrown a beach ball or basket ball inside a tent, like I said if the globe doesn't fit ,get a bigger tent. The use of one word over another is no evidence for a flat earth ,how do you know what the common vernacular would have been 2000 years ago and not to mention the inferences and subtleties lost within translation into different languages,then on top of that someone comes along and says tent must mean a flat earth ,give me a break 5 (Like I said it is possible to force the idea of a globe into those verses. And that the Bible never contradicts the idea of a flat earth.) Lets re-write this without the obvious bias. It is possible to interpret a globe earth equally as well as a flat into the verses of the bible, and depending on said interpretation the bible will never contradict either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, peter said: It is possible to interpret a globe earth equally as well as a flat into the verses of the bible, Yes it is possible, but sometimes that makes the Bible verse absurd. We all know they wrote the Bible as a flat Earth book, that's exactly how some hard-core Christian's read it. Look at Alexa's posts, she totally believes the Earth is flat cos that's what God's word says. My tuppence worth - when the devil takes Jesus to the top of the mountain and shows him all the kingdoms of Earth. How could he see them all if we live on a globe, some of them would have been on the other side of the world, so he couldn't see them all unless the Earth was flat. Genesis describes a flat Earth and to part the waters in the middle is a ludicrous description of our land mass formation, ok ok tectonic plate shifts, and as for moving on the face of the waters when that's actually a small part of a sphere, well it is pushing it a bit! It could be interpreted that way but a sphere doesn't really have a face. It kind of does, but not really imo. The freaking crystal dome man! Come on, they believe the firmament is a crystal dome above the Earth! To make sense of that the Earth has to be flat. But then I don't believe the Bible is the word of God. And the fact that it is a flat Earth book betrays that. Crystal dome! Edited December 20, 2022 by pi3141 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 3 hours ago, pi3141 said: We all know they wrote the Bible as a flat Earth book, that's exactly how some hard-core Christian's read it. Look at Alexa's posts, she totally believes the Earth is flat cos that's what God's word says. They can believe what they want ,it doesn't make it correct. I don't know the bible was written for the flat earth movement ,interpretation once again 3 hours ago, pi3141 said: Yes it is possible, but sometimes that makes the Bible verse absurd. why, absurdity to one makes perfect sense to another, you only have to read through the flat earth thread to come to that obvious conclusion 3 hours ago, pi3141 said: Genesis describes a flat Earth and to part the waters in the middle is a ludicrous description of our land mass formation, ok ok tectonic plate shifts, and as for moving on the face of the waters when that's actually a small part of a sphere, well it is pushing it a bit! It could be interpreted that way but a sphere doesn't really have a face. It kind of does, but not really imo. It all boils down to interpretation eg moving on the face of the waters could mean traveling on the surface in a boat nothing more or nothing less 3 hours ago, pi3141 said: The freaking crystal dome man! Come on, they believe the firmament is a crystal dome above the Earth! To make sense of that the Earth has to be flat. what crystal dome ,funny no one has seen it , alexa says that the firmament is the shape of a globe with a flat earth inside, so the old saying as above so below certainly doesn't ring true in that case therefore she must be suggesting that our entire existance is inside a snow globe that sits on someones desk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 8 hours ago, peter said: It is possible to interpret a globe earth equally as well as a flat into the verses of the bible NO... God knows the difference between a circle & a ball. Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth Isaiah 22:18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webtrekker Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 4 hours ago, alexa said: NO... God knows the difference between a circle & a ball. Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth Isaiah 22:18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball And did God say this directly to Isiah? Or is it just more conjecture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 6 hours ago, alexa said: NO... God knows the difference between a circle & a ball. I bloody hope so, but it certainly doesn't add weight to your argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origin Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 8 hours ago, alexa said: NO... God knows the difference between a circle & a ball. But your so-called god uses blueprints of unknown design. Which are based on completely unknown rules of physics. What is the probability that the reality will be as humans would like it to be? This thing is able to create reality in real time. And your God knows very well that what is happening is on the micro scale. It knows that you have not done your homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linenum Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 On 12/20/2022 at 7:59 AM, peter said: It is possible to interpret a globe earth equally as well as a flat into the verses of the bible, and depending on said interpretation the bible will never contradict either This link is the best anti-flat earth Christian web page I know of.... https://creation.com/refuting-flat-earth Yet they don't seem to give ANY examples of a Bible verse supporting a globe better than a flat earth. It looks like the ONLY evidence they present for a globe is scientific evidence - nothing from the Bible.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 1 hour ago, linenum said: https://creation.com/refuting-flat-earth Quote from said site - Clearly, the earth was created in a short space of time a few thousand years ago. Clearly? Lol! Flat Earth is not true but creation only being a few thousand years old is. Oh man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 4 hours ago, linenum said: It looks like the ONLY evidence they present for a globe is scientific evidence - nothing from the Bible.... So what, as far as the FE goes with regards to the bible ,it's all about interpretation,as far as that goes you can interpret it anyway you like, makes no difference to me 2 hours ago, pi3141 said: Quote from said site - https://creation.com/refuting-flat-earth Clearly, the earth was created in a short space of time a few thousand years ago. Clearly? Lol! Flat Earth is not true but creation only being a few thousand years old is. Oh man! I don't believe in either, creationism and the flat earth are just about on par in my book , and to use one to refute the other would be amusing ,if it wasn't so ridiculous. Just my opinion ,sorry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linenum Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, peter said: So what, as far as the FE goes with regards to the bible ,it's all about interpretation, as far as that goes you can interpret it anyway you like, makes no difference to me Fundamentalists like to take things literally so that means that they can't just interpret it any old way. 18 hours ago, peter said: I don't believe in either, creationism and the flat earth are just about on par in my book , and to use one to refute the other would be amusing ,if it wasn't so ridiculous. Just my opinion ,sorry This shows 200+ young-earth creationists who have a doctorate in a field of science (or similar). I don't think flat earthers have as many qualified experts as that. https://creation.com/scientists-alive-today-who-accept-the-biblical-account-of-creation There are also creationist "journals" e.g. Journal of Creation and Answers Research Journal. BTW I used to be a young-earth creationist but then I went straight to atheism due to all-or-nothing thinking. This comic is about that kind of thing: https://www.oldearth.org/tract/tract.htm Edited December 29, 2022 by linenum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, linenum said: This shows 200+ young-earth creationists who have a doctorate in a field of science (or similar). I don't think flat earthers have as many qualified experts as that. https://creation.com/scientists-alive-today-who-accept-the-biblical-account-of-creation There are also creationist "journals" e.g. Journal of Creation and Answers Research Journal. BTW I used to be a young-earth creationist but then I went straight to atheism due to all-or-nothing thinking. This comic is about that kind of thing: https://www.oldearth.org/tract/tract.htm Edited 2 hours ago by linenum 200 plus what? 5 or 6 , and what field of science do they have their doctorate in (theology maybe) what about the 100's of thousands of geologists , geophysicists, archeologists etc etc like I said if you wish to interpret the bible as a flat earth manuscript or think the earth is 6,000 yrs old go for it Edited December 29, 2022 by peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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