linenum Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 (edited) Deuteronomy 20:16-17 Quote But what about the cities the Lord your God is giving you as your own? Kill everything that breathes in those cities. Completely destroy them. Wipe out the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. That’s what the Lord your God commanded you to do. It looks like this was related to Noah cursing Ham's son Canaan for Ham not handling Noah's drunken nakedness correctly in Genesis 9:20-25. Quote Noah was a man who farmed the land. He decided to plant a field that produced grapes for making wine. When he drank some of the wine, it made him drunk. Then he lay down inside his tent without any clothes on. Ham saw his father naked. Then Ham, the father of Canaan, went outside and told his two brothers. But Shem and Japheth picked up a piece of clothing and laid it across their shoulders. Then they walked backward into the tent. They covered their father’s body. They turned their faces away because they didn’t want to see their father naked. Then Noah woke up from his sleep that was caused by the wine. He found out what his youngest son had done to him. He said, “May a curse be put on Canaan! He will be the lowest of slaves to his brothers.” Canaan would be the ancestor of the Canaanites and maybe also those other ethnicities that were meant to be "cleansed". In Joshua the Canaanite prostitute, Rahab, was saved because she hid some Israelite spies. Rahab was said to be an ancestor of Jesus. Thoughts? Edited December 8, 2022 by linenum adding bible verse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 53 minutes ago, linenum said: Thoughts? My first thoughts - These are not the commandments of the true God. My reasoning - Listen to your heart, would an infinite, omniscient, omnipotent, ever loving God really command this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linenum Posted December 9, 2022 Author Share Posted December 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, pi3141 said: My first thoughts - These are not the commandments of the true God. My reasoning - Listen to your heart, would an infinite, omniscient, omnipotent, ever loving God really command this? I see the stories in the Bible as a test of the reader's character - guided by an intelligent non-obvious force... https://lifesplayer.com/bible.php Many people would insist that the God of the Bible is infinitely loving... and even worse than the genocide is the church tradition that most people are going to hell to suffer forever... Here's a related cartoon from Chapter 6, "The God Program", from David Icke's "Infinite Love Is The Only Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 5 hours ago, pi3141 said: My reasoning - Listen to your heart, would an infinite, omniscient, omnipotent, ever loving God really command this? Yes - But he had to, the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and the Jebusites were all of the Nephilim seed & if God hadn't of done this I doubt we'd all exist today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linenum Posted December 9, 2022 Author Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, alexa said: Yes - But he had to, the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and the Jebusites were all of the Nephilim seed & if God hadn't of done this I doubt we'd all exist today. Some thoughts: It seems like Canaan was the son of Ham and his wife who were said to be on the Ark (and those on the Ark were usually believed to be the only survivors of the Flood). Genesis 10:15-18 says Canaan was the father of many of those ethnicities including the Hittites, Jebusites, Amorites, Hivites, etc. Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33 talk about the Nephilim and Genesis 6 is before the Flood. Though it says God commanded for all of the Canaanites to be wiped out, Rahab the prostitute and her family weren't and Rahab is in Jesus' family tree. Numbers 13:33 says "The family line of Anak came from the Nephilim". Joshua 11 talks about Anakites being killed. The Bible also says they were tall. Edited December 9, 2022 by linenum About the Anakites 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, linenum said: Some thoughts: It seems like Canaan was the son of Ham and his wife who were said to be on the Ark (and those on the Ark were usually believed to be the only survivors of the Flood). Genesis 10:15-18 says Canaan was the father of many of those ethnicities including the Hittites, Jebusites, Amorites, Hivites, etc. Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33 talk about the Nephilim and Genesis 6 is before the Flood. Though it says God commanded for all of the Canaanites to be wiped out, Rahab the prostitute and her family weren't and Rahab is in Jesus' family tree. Numbers 13:33 says "The family line of Anak came from the Nephilim". Joshua 11 talks about Anakites being killed. The Bible also says they were tall. I know that it was Ham's children who were cursed by Noah. It was Cush who was son of Ham who spawned Nimrod who was said to be giant, but how can this be ? When it it is said that all who boarded the Ark were all of pure seed, this has always puzzled me. It must have been the wives of whom Noah's sons married, this is why God says not to intermingle with the some, mainly the Canaanites. Edited December 9, 2022 by alexa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 13 hours ago, linenum said: Here's a related cartoon from Chapter 6, "The God Program", from David Icke's "Infinite Love Is The Only Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion" Yeah that cartoon sums up my thoughts on the church. And I don't believe in Hell. That's the wolves twisting the truth, driving a wedge between God and us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Yahweh, the God of the Christians and Jews, is an ancient Canaanite God. The Christians, and Jews and even Muslims, worship the ancient Canaanite gods - Yahweh, Baal and Asherah, which probably stem from Egypt and the Egyptian mystery religions. Yahweh From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Yahweh[a] was the national god of ancient Israel and Judah.[3] The origins of his worship reach at least to the early Iron Age, and likely to the Late Bronze Age if not somewhat earlier,[4] and in the oldest biblical literature he possesses attributes typically ascribed to weather and war deities, fructifying the land and leading the heavenly army against Israel's enemies.[5] The early Israelites were polytheistic and worshipped Yahweh alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baal.[6] In later centuries, El and Yahweh became conflated and El-linked epithets such as El Shaddai came to be applied to Yahweh alone,[7] and other gods and goddesses such as Baal and Asherah were absorbed into Yahwist religion.[8] History Periods Philip King and Lawrence Stager place the history of Yahweh into the following periods: Late Bronze: 1550–1200 BCE Iron Age I: 1200–1000 BCE Iron Age II: 1000–586 BCE Neo-Babylonian: 586–539 BCE Persian: 539–332 BCE[16] Other academic terms often used include First Temple period, from the construction of the Temple in 957 BCE to its destruction in 586 BCE, exilic for the period of the Exile from 586–539 BCE (identical with Neo-Babylonian above), post-Exilic for later periods and Second Temple period from the reconstruction of the Temple in 515 BCE until its destruction in 70 CE. Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 On 12/9/2022 at 3:23 PM, alexa said: Yes - But he had to, the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and the Jebusites were all of the Nephilim seed & if God hadn't of done this I doubt we'd all exist today. Why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 7 hours ago, peter said: Why Because the Nephilim were hungry blood thirsty Giants, they were destroying humanity, hence the flood, but these Nephilim somehow survived the flood so therefore God had to make sure their seed was wiped out. Genesis 6 & Joshua. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campion Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 On 12/8/2022 at 11:15 PM, linenum said: But what about the cities the Lord your God is giving you as your own? Kill everything that breathes in those cities. Completely destroy them. Wipe out the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. That’s what the Lord your God commanded you to do. Wiki on Deuteronomy: "Virtually all secular scholars (and most of Christian and Jewish scholars) reject the traditional Mosaic authorship of Deuteronomy and date the book much later, between the 7th and 5th centuries BCE. Its authors were probably the Levite caste, collectively referred to as the Deuteronomist, whose economic needs and social status it reflects." The problem is, the authors of this passage would also be beneficiaries of any successful conquest of other tribes. Therefore we have to take account of bias and conflict of interest when deciding if they're actually telling the truth regarding whether this came from God. And even if a God did say it, it's clearly a biased God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linenum Posted December 10, 2022 Author Share Posted December 10, 2022 11 hours ago, peter said: Why From the next verse, Deuteronomy 20:18: "If you don’t destroy them, they’ll teach you to do all the things the Lord hates. He hates the way they worship their gods. If you do those things, you will sin against the Lord your God." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linenum Posted December 10, 2022 Author Share Posted December 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Campion said: The problem is, the authors of this passage would also be beneficiaries of any successful conquest of other tribes. Therefore we have to take account of bias and conflict of interest when deciding if they're actually telling the truth regarding whether this came from God. And even if a God did say it, it's clearly a biased God. I think God's commands for the cities outside of the promised land would be far more in the Israelites' interests: (as opposed to killing every single thing that breathes) Deuteronomy 20:10-15 "Suppose you march up to attack a city. Before you attack it, offer to make peace with its people. Suppose they accept your offer and open their gates. Then force all the people in the city to be your slaves. They will have to work for you. But suppose they refuse your offer of peace and prepare for battle. Then surround that city. Get ready to attack it. The Lord your God will hand it over to you. When he does, kill all the men with your swords. But you can take the women and children for yourselves. You can also take the livestock and everything else in the city. What you have captured from your enemies you can use for yourselves. The Lord your God has given it to you. That’s how you must treat all the cities far away from you. Those cities don’t belong to the nations that are nearby." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 9 hours ago, alexa said: Because the Nephilim were hungry blood thirsty Giants, they were destroying humanity, hence the flood, but these Nephilim somehow survived the flood so therefore God had to make sure their seed was wiped out. Genesis 6 & Joshua. Maybe that was their way of life ,should god get rid of lions and tigers just because they're carnivores Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, linenum said: I think God's commands for the cities outside of the promised land would be far more in the Israelites' interests: (as opposed to killing every single thing that breathes) Deuteronomy 20:10-15 "Suppose you march up to attack a city. Before you attack it, offer to make peace with its people. Suppose they accept your offer and open their gates. Then force all the people in the city to be your slaves. They will have to work for you. But suppose they refuse your offer of peace and prepare for battle. Then surround that city. Get ready to attack it. The Lord your God will hand it over to you. When he does, kill all the men with your swords. But you can take the women and children for yourselves. You can also take the livestock and everything else in the city. What you have captured from your enemies you can use for yourselves. The Lord your God has given it to you. That’s how you must treat all the cities far away from you. Those cities don’t belong to the nations that are nearby." the god your talking about sounds like a great bloke ,he's obviously not adverse to a bit of slavery, rape , pedophilia , carnage and theft Edited December 11, 2022 by peter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 5 hours ago, linenum said: From the next verse, Deuteronomy 20:18: "If you don’t destroy them, they’ll teach you to do all the things the Lord hates. He hates the way they worship their gods. If you do those things, you will sin against the Lord your God." and you don't see a problem with that statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 4 hours ago, peter said: Maybe that was their way of life ,should god get rid of lions and tigers just because they're carnivores There wouldn't be any tigers or lions left as they were even offending against the animals. Lions and tigers were like pussy cats to these giants. Gilgamesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, alexa said: There wouldn't be any tigers or lions left as they were even offending against the animals. Lions and tigers were like pussy cats to these giants. Gilgamesh How do you know what they were like and who they were offending From the next verse, Deuteronomy 20:18: "If you don’t destroy them, they’ll teach you to do all the things the Lord hates. He hates the way they worship their gods. If you do those things, you will sin against the Lord your God." It seems to me your god just didn't like the fact they worshiped someone else, he obviously thinks he is the best god out of all the others to choose from so in my book that would make him somewhat of a narcissist Edited December 11, 2022 by peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 37 minutes ago, peter said: From the next verse, Deuteronomy 20:18: "If you don’t destroy them, they’ll teach you to do all the things the Lord hates. He hates the way they worship their gods. If you do those things, you will sin against the Lord your God." Get it in context. Deuteronomy 20:18 For you must devote them to complete destruction—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that they cannot teach you to do all the detestable things they do for their gods, and so cause you to sin against the LORD your God. This is why God also destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 44 minutes ago, peter said: How do you know what they were like and who they were offending From the next verse, Deuteronomy 20:18: "If you don’t destroy them, they’ll teach you to do all the things the Lord hates. He hates the way they worship their gods. If you do those things, you will sin against the Lord your God." It seems to me your god just didn't like the fact they worshiped someone else, he obviously thinks he is the best god out of all the others to choose from so in my book that would make him somewhat of a narcissist Seems to me you only believe parts of the Bible that you want to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 1 minute ago, alexa said: Seems to me you only believe parts of the Bible that you want to believe. No I don't believe any of it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 53 minutes ago, peter said: How do you know what they were like and who they were offending 7 minutes ago, alexa said: Seems to me you only believe parts of the Bible that you want to believe. Once again you have evaded the question with an unrelated nonsensical answer , usual modus operandi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linenum Posted December 11, 2022 Author Share Posted December 11, 2022 6 hours ago, peter said: and you don't see a problem with that statement? 6 hours ago, peter said: the god your talking about sounds like a great bloke ,he's obviously not adverse to a bit of slavery, rape , pedophilia , carnage and theft In the following web page I talk about three main approaches to the Bible: https://lifesplayer.com/bible.php Option 1: The Bible is 100% true and moral Option 2: The Bible isn't straight-forward Option 3: The Bible has no supernatural basis I believe in a non-obvious intelligent force but believe most of the Bible isn't historical. (option 2) In the past I believed in option 1 and then option 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origin Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 Words and narratives have always been written by Humans and for Humans. A jealous endless contest over who might be right. In the end they were all lying. Because none of them saw it. This also applies to nasa and today's ruling ones. They'll never see. The real thing. Apparently the degenerates of the so-called past hated their predecessors who were more evolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) 57 minutes ago, linenum said: In the following web page I talk about three main approaches to the Bible: https://lifesplayer.com/bible.php Option 1: The Bible is 100% true and moral Option 2: The Bible isn't straight-forward Option 3: The Bible has no supernatural basis I believe in a non-obvious intelligent force but believe most of the Bible isn't historical. (option 2) In the past I believed in option 1 and then option 3. Put me down as option 1 This means that God is perfectly just and loving, even if most people are going to hell, perhaps forever. The faith of a child is praised, while “the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight” (1 Corinthians 3:18-19). With a plain reading of the Bible it seems the world was created a few days before humans were. The Bible also seems to say the Earth is flat and no verses are against this. I take Gods word literally. Edited December 11, 2022 by alexa typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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