The Original Lords Prayer

[pi3141]

1 hour ago, Morpheus said:

Hi chief,

 

I hope you don't mind me asking, but I've seen you mention Blavatsky a couple time now and considering he to shady background and the author of the secret doctrine () why should we take a word of what she says as any modicum of truth? 

 

She's a Satanist. 

 

Well that accusation has been made against her for a long time but I don't see evidence of that in her writings.

 

With the occult it is often the case of conflicting or even multiple simultaneous meanings given at the same time - thats notvto excuse the accusation, the accusation is baseless but her information, being occult, may not always bee 100% accurate and not partly veiled ir even misdirected in some ways.

 

As for me, I've been able to cross reference her teachings with the others I mention and scholarly work.

 

For instance, Madam Blavatsky wrote in 1877 that the original scriptures did not mention Hell, but Gehhena or Tarturus or gates of death.

 

Well in 1950 scholars got together to re-translate the Bible from the original documents. That translation showed us the Bible mentions Gehenba, Tartarus and gates of death etc. That effort is known as tha Anchor Bible series and is managed by Yale nowadays.

 

So, on balance, looks like she's right on that one. I'm not suggesting only she knew, there are Christian denominations and of course the Jews etc who would have known about the miatranslations but I don't think it was common knowledge to the common man that rhere were mistranslations in the English and Latin Bibles written through the preceeding centuries.

 

I myself have been buying up copies of the Anchor Bible primarily to confirm what Madam Blavatsky said was true, and I have found it to be true.

[Morpheus]

6 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

Well that accusation has been made against her for a long time but I don't see evidence of that in her writings.

 

With the occult it is often the case of conflicting or even multiple simultaneous meanings given at the same time - thats notvto excuse the accusation, the accusation is baseless but her information, being occult, may not always bee 100% accurate and not partly veiled ir even misdirected in some ways.

 

As for me, I've been able to cross reference her teachings with the others I mention and scholarly work.

 

For instance, Madam Blavatsky wrote in 1877 that the original scriptures did not mention Hell, but Gehhena or Tarturus or gates of death.

 

Well in 1950 scholars got together to re-translate the Bible from the original documents. That translation showed us the Bible mentions Gehenba, Tartarus and gates of death etc. That effort is known as tha Anchor Bible series and is managed by Yale nowadays.

 

So, on balance, looks like she's right on that one. I'm not suggesting only she knew, there are Christian denominations and of course the Jews etc who would have known about the miatranslations but I don't think it was common knowledge to the common man that rhere were mistranslations in the English and Latin Bibles written through the preceeding centuries.

 

I myself have been buying up copies of the Anchor Bible primarily to confirm what Madam Blavatsky said was true, and I have found it to be true.

So have you read an original version of the secret doctrine? 

[pi3141]

11 hours ago, Morpheus said:

So have you read an original version of the secret doctrine? 

 

No, I have a PDF copy but its certainly not original.

 

I'm going to jump ahead a bit - are you referring to articles like this -

 

Theosophy is of the Devil

By David J. Stewart

 

Please notice that Helena Petrovna Blavatsky founded the Theosophical Society in 1875.  Her most popular work was a two-volume book she wrote titled 'The Secret Doctrine,' in which she woefully states...

 

"Lucifer represents.. Life.. Thought.. Progress.. Civilization.. Liberty.. Independence.. Lucifer is the Logos.. the Serpent, the Savior." pages 171, 225, 255 (Volume II)

"It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God." pages 215, 216, 220, 245, 255, 533, (VI)

"The Celestial Virgin which thus becomes the Mother of Gods and Devils at one and the same time; for she is the ever-loving beneficent Deity...but in antiquity and reality Lucifer or Luciferius is the name. Lucifer is divine and terrestrial Light, 'the Holy Ghost' and 'Satan' at one and the same time." page 539

Helena Petrovna Blavatsky 32° Co-Freemason
The Secret Doctrine

 

Link - https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/New Age/theosophy.htm

 

 

Of which a full explanation and rebuttal is given here - 

 

 

“Satan is the only God” – Did Blavatsky really say that?

The fundamentalist Christian website www.jesus-is-savior.com contains a particularly misleading, fallacious, and deliberately dishonest critique of H.P. Blavatsky, Theosophy, and the Theosophical Movement.

 

One of the most slanderous, ignorant, and utterly false accusations that has been repeatedly directed at H.P. Blavatsky and against Theosophists in general over the years is the claim that Theosophy is a form of satanism and that Madame Blavatsky was a devil worshipper.

 

To a Theosophist, such an assertion is as laughable as it is ridiculous and nonsensical.

 

Link - https://blavatskytheosophy.com/satan-is-the-only-god-did-blavatsky-really-say-that/

 

 

Sorry just jumping ahead, but is this what you mean?

 

I haven't read the Secret Doctrine - have you?

 

Did SHE really say 'Satan is God of this planet' in that book and that she worshiped it?

 

As I understand Blavatsky's view's from reading Isis Unveiled - is that she didn't believe in Satan, so I don't understand how she can be a Satanist?

[Morpheus]

1 hour ago, pi3141 said:

No, I have a PDF copy but its certainly not original.

Is that an amended version by Aunt Bessie (Annie Besant)? If so, I believe that the true understanding of that writing has been altered and therefore not an accurate account from the first edition. 

 

1 hour ago, pi3141 said:

haven't read the Secret Doctrine - have you?

 

No I have not, but I have read enough articles to get the gist, or so I believe. However, I would like to read it to consider it's proposterous notion of their only being soul. I may not understand what's written, but it doesn't stop my curiosity to read it.

1 hour ago, pi3141 said:

As I understand Blavatsky's view's from reading Isis Unveiled - is that she didn't believe in Satan, so I don't understand how she can be a Satanist?

Doesn't believe in satan but Lucifer is satan, not arsed what you say about that, but that's the connection right there. Lucifer is written about alot her writings. 

 

Ultimately, it's an occult book and i believe it contains such occult teachings. I have a copy of Isis Unveiled that I have just downloaded recently that I intend to read, however, theosophy and well as solipsism are bull shit and I can't for any degree of my being agree with what she says or solipsists either. 

 

Then after that, we have to start looking at her shady disciples and as far as I'm concerned, her ideologues are baseless and another attempt by the controller's of the world to hide the existence of God. 

 

I'm not here to debate on what religion god takes form, because that's for the individual and their beliefs, but to use Blavatsky as some kind of idol to be celebrated and reverred I find quite strange considering her occult leanings. It's like asking some who's Muslim if they believe Jesus Christ is the son of God, they'll say no. So, of course she denies the existence of God in that form, she's an occultist which is ultimately satanism. 

 

Her background in the occult should give enough to anyone considering reading her material to be careful of what their message is. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Morpheus

[Morpheus]

Just to add to this, it's been stated/written that she didn't write the Secret Doctrine herself, it was the spirits/masters she was contacting that wrote the book through her, or so the story goes. I'm sure she said as much herself. So...... Yeah...... Spirits/masters writing books for their vessels, sounds pretty satanic to me.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Morpheus

[pi3141]

26 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

I'm not here to debate on what religion god takes form, because that's for the individual and their beliefs, but to use Blavatsky as some kind of idol to be celebrated and reverred I find quite strange considering her occult leanings. It's like asking some who's Muslim if they believe Jesus Christ is the son of God, they'll say no. So, of course she denies the existence of God in that form, she's an occultist which is ultimately satanism. 

 

Her background in the occult should give enough to anyone considering reading her material to be careful of what their message is. 

 

Ok well your blowing it up a bit - I celebrate and revere Blavatsky because I have read and reference her book - sorry but no, I do not agree with your assertion.

 

You make no mention that two of the books I also reference are from serving ministers of the church and fixate on Blavatsky and suggest i celebrate and revere her where I have made no such statement.

 

You made the statement that you see occultism as Satanism, well, that's your understanding, but its wrong. Its like Magic, Magic is Magic, you can use it for good or bad, but Magic itself is not bad. Studying the occult is not evil, religion is occult - belief's in spirits, Heaven Hell, Angels - how occult is that?

 

Lets remind ourselves what 'Occult' means -

 

 

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages 

 

occult

noun
mystical, supernatural, or magical powers, practices, or phenomena.

 

 

I would say the belief in Angels and Demons and the power of Prayer is belief in Mystical or Supernatural - wouldn't you?

 

Hence religion is occult. Studying religion is not evil.

 

I think you have a very simplistic and erroneous view.

 

I would love a link to your original version of Secret Doctrine, I would download it to my collection. I haven't read it because it goes into 'Root Race' and all that crap, I don't go in for all that, so I didn't read it. Now I might have to.

Edited November 25, 2022 by pi3141

[pi3141]

32 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

she's an occultist which is ultimately satanism. 

 

Lol, thinking this through - I should have agreed with you!

 

Occult - mystical, supernatural, or magical powers, practices, or phenomena.

 

Christianity - belief in the supernatural and mystical phenomena

 

Ergo - Christians are Occultists and all Occultism is ultimately Satanism, hence Christians are Satanists!

 

Lets go tell the Christians!!!

[Morpheus]

35 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

Occult - mystical, supernatural, or magical powers, practices, or phenomena.

 

Christianity - belief in the supernatural and mystical phenomena

There's a difference there, it's subtle, but it's there. 

 

Where in Christianity do people practice magic? 

[Morpheus]

48 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

Ok well your blowing it up a bit - I celebrate and revere Blavatsky because I have read and reference her book - sorry but no, I do not agree with your assertion.

 

You make no mention that two of the books I also reference are from serving ministers of the church and fixate on Blavatsky and suggest i celebrate and revere her where I have made no such statement.

Sorry, I didn't mean to frame it like that, bad choice of words. I'm not seeking to insult you, it's just a conversation. 

49 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

You made the statement that you see occultism as Satanism, well, that's your understanding, but its wrong. Its like Magic, Magic is Magic, you can use it for good or bad, but Magic itself is not bad. Studying the occult is not evil, religion is occult - belief's in spirits, Heaven Hell, Angels - how occult is that?

Well, so where is there such practice in Christianity? So we agree, Christianity can't be occultism because there's no practice or manipulation or magic. I don't think that's an erroneous understanding at all. There's clearly a difference once we separated the belief of the supernatural and the mystical, occultism becomes the practice, does it not?

 

As for erroneous, you're entitled to your view. 

[Morpheus]

54 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

I would love a link to your original version of Secret Doctrine, I would download it to my collection. I haven't read it because it goes into 'Root Race' and all that crap, I don't go in for all that, so I didn't read it. Now I might have to.

Please share if you manage to find it, I can only find an Aunt Bessie's version. 

[pi3141]

33 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Where in Christianity do people practice magic? 

 

Prayer.

[pi3141]

30 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to frame it like that, bad choice of words. I'm not seeking to insult you, it's just a conversation. 

Well, so where is there such practice in Christianity? So we agree, Christianity can't be occultism because there's no practice or manipulation or magic. I don't think that's an erroneous understanding at all. There's clearly a difference once we separated the belief of the supernatural and the mystical, occultism becomes the practice, does it not?

 

As for erroneous, you're entitled to your view. 

 

 

Ok, when Christians enter a church their intention is to send their thoughts to a spiritual entity in the sky. To facilitate this, they light candles to purify and sanctify the space, the ground itself is said to be sacred, and sometimes they assume a special position to aid their magical intention, they kneel and clasp hands while bowing their head, then with magical intent, they say their prayer or devotion, sometimes telepathically, to their spiritual leader or one of his angels or intercessionaries who can petition him on their behalf.

 

You don't call that practising magic?

[pi3141]

From Wiki -

 

Votive candle

A votive candle or prayer candle is a small candle, typically white or beeswax yellow, intended to be burnt as a votive offering in an act of Christian prayer, especially within the Anglican, Lutheran, and Roman Catholic Christian denominations, among others.[1][2][3][4]

 

Use by Christian Denominations

Candles are lit for prayer intentions. To "light a candle for someone" indicates one's intention to say a prayer for another person, and the candle symbolizes that prayer. Many times, "a board is placed nearby with names of those for whom prayer is requested."[1] A donation box is usually placed near a votive candle rack in order that Christians lighting the votive candles can help defray the cost of votive candles, and make a votive offering to the church.

 

Anglicanism
Some Anglican churches, especially those that worship in the High Church or Anglo-Catholic tradition, have votive candles for purposes of praying for the dead as well as asking for saintly intercession.

 

Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Votive_candle

 

Again from Wiki - 

 

Intercession of saints

Intercession of the Saints is a Christian doctrine held by the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Catholic churches. The practice of praying through saints can be found in Christian writings from the 3rd century onward.[2][3] The 4th-century Apostles' Creed states belief in the communion of Saints, which certain Christian churches interpret as supporting the intercession of saints. However, similar practices are controversial in Judaism, Islam, and Protestantism.

 

Catholic view

The Catholic doctrine of intercession and invocation was set forth by the Council of Trent, which teaches that "...the saints who reign together with Christ offer up their own prayers to God for men. It is good and useful suppliantly to invoke them, and to have recourse to their prayers, aid, and help for obtaining benefits from God, through His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, Who alone is our Redeemer and Saviour."[7]

 

 

Intentions? Invocations?

 

Isn't that magical speak?

 

Prayer intentions to seek physical changes on Earth?

 

Thats magic isn't it?

[Morpheus]

36 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

 

Prayer.

Because the result of this invocation is what?

[Morpheus]

33 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

 

 

Ok, when Christians enter a church their intention is to send their thoughts to a spiritual entity in the sky. To facilitate this, they light candles to purify and sanctify the space, the ground itself is said to be sacred, and sometimes they assume a special position to aid their magical intention, they kneel and clasp hands while bowing their head, then with magical intent, they say their prayer or devotion, sometimes telepathically, to their spiritual leader or one of his angels or intercessionaries who can petition him on their behalf.

 

You don't call that practising magic?

No, because what's the result? 

[Morpheus]

19 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

From Wiki -

 

Votive candle

A votive candle or prayer candle is a small candle, typically white or beeswax yellow, intended to be burnt as a votive offering in an act of Christian prayer, especially within the Anglican, Lutheran, and Roman Catholic Christian denominations, among others.[1][2][3][4]

 

Use by Christian Denominations

Candles are lit for prayer intentions. To "light a candle for someone" indicates one's intention to say a prayer for another person, and the candle symbolizes that prayer. Many times, "a board is placed nearby with names of those for whom prayer is requested."[1] A donation box is usually placed near a votive candle rack in order that Christians lighting the votive candles can help defray the cost of votive candles, and make a votive offering to the church.

 

Anglicanism
Some Anglican churches, especially those that worship in the High Church or Anglo-Catholic tradition, have votive candles for purposes of praying for the dead as well as asking for saintly intercession.

 

Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Votive_candle

 

Again from Wiki - 

 

Intercession of saints

Intercession of the Saints is a Christian doctrine held by the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Catholic churches. The practice of praying through saints can be found in Christian writings from the 3rd century onward.[2][3] The 4th-century Apostles' Creed states belief in the communion of Saints, which certain Christian churches interpret as supporting the intercession of saints. However, similar practices are controversial in Judaism, Islam, and Protestantism.

 

Catholic view

The Catholic doctrine of intercession and invocation was set forth by the Council of Trent, which teaches that "...the saints who reign together with Christ offer up their own prayers to God for men. It is good and useful suppliantly to invoke them, and to have recourse to their prayers, aid, and help for obtaining benefits from God, through His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, Who alone is our Redeemer and Saviour."[7]

 

 

Intentions? Invocations?

 

Isn't that magical speak?

 

Prayer intentions to seek physical changes on Earth?

 

Thats magic isn't it?

I know what you're saying by the way, but the proof is in the pudding for me. We can clearly see their invocations are working and their results. If COVID has taught us anything it's that they have used magic to engulf the world towards their one world government, if that's not satanic I don't know what is, I know that's not anything you've said, I'm just speaking out loud with my thoughts. I do find this very interesting though. 

 

Are there any other writings similar to Blavatsky that you've read? 

[pi3141]

7 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Are there any other writings similar to Blavatsky that you've read? 

 

Well the only stuff I can think of is a lot of pamphlets by Hilton Hotema and a book put out by an American spiritualist church. The other two books, by Rev Taylor and Rev Hislop would be similar to Blavatsky in their esoteric interpretations of the Bible stories but not written by an occultist. Although, for both those ministers to come to the understanding they did of Roman Catholicism they to must have studied occult works. I know Rev Taylor studied a major and rare book on Freemasonry. And again I have read rare books on Freemasonry but again, they are written by past masters of the craft and again they have had to study the old religions and occult symbology to come to their understanding that Freemasonry is pagan and actually Baal worship.

 

Otherwise its mainly scholarly titles and the Bible I study and read.

[pi3141]

24 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Because the result of this invocation is what?

 

Whatever they intend - thats magic, state your intention, make an invocation and hope to see a change manifest. Prayer with intention to change or ask for help is magic.

 

Invocations are magical practices, they belong to the world of magic.

[TheConsultant]

The Church of Satan once tweeted that Blavatzky is not a Satanist because she was discussing the roots of Satanism 75 years before the Church of Satan was founded. 
 

Well, not sure about you all, but that is me convinced!

Crowley was a Satanist, well before Church of Satan was founded (he died approximately 20 years before it was founded). These people take from all areas and incorporate, the inner core of the occult is still Luciferian always has been, the hidden societies within hidden societies. Operating from a position of infiltration in the most influential areas.

Edited November 25, 2022 by TheConsultant

[pi3141]

32 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

I know what you're saying by the way, but the proof is in the pudding for me. We can clearly see their invocations are working and their results. If COVID has taught us anything it's that they have used magic to engulf the world towards their one world government, if that's not satanic I don't know what is, I know that's not anything you've said, I'm just speaking out loud with my thoughts. I do find this very interesting though. 

 

Agreed - 100%

 

And Christianity is a part of that satanic push, it serves a purpose to them.

 

 

I have to preface that by stating that by using and agreeing to the term 'Satanic' and 'Satan' inc I do not in any way endorse the belief in that entity. 

 

Satan is a fiction, created by the Church to put a wedge between you and God.

Edited November 25, 2022 by pi3141

[pi3141]

6 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

Well, not sure about you all, but that is me convinced!

 

Cheers!

[TheConsultant]

1 minute ago, pi3141 said:

 

Cheers!

I was being facetious

Edited November 25, 2022 by TheConsultant

[pi3141]

Here's some quotes about Satan taken from Isis -

 

Isis 
P481
This personification, denominated Satan, is to be contemplated from three different planes: the Old Testament, the Christian Fathers, and the ancient Gentile altitude. He is supposed to have been represented by the Serpent in the Garden of Eden; nevertheless, the epithet of Satan is nowhere in the Hebrew sacred writings applied to that or any other variety of ophidian. The Brazen Serpent of Moses was worshipped by the Israelites as a god;* being the symbol of Esmun-Asklepius the Phoenician Iao. Indeed, the character of Satan himself is introduced in the 1st book of Chronicles in the act of instigating King David to number the Israelitish people, an act elsewhere declared specifically to have been moved by Jehovah himself. † The inference is unavoidable that the two, Satan and Jehovah, were regarded as identical.

 

Another mention of Satan is found in the prophecies of Zechariah. This book was written at a period subsequent to the Jewish colonization of Palestine, and hence, the Asideans may fairly be supposed to have brought the personification thither from the East. It is well-known that this body of sectaries were deeply imbued with the Mazdean notions; and that they represented Ahriman or Anra-manyas by the god-names of Syria. Set or Sat-an, the god of the Hittites and Hyk-sos, and Beel-Zebub the oracle-god, afterward the Grecian Apollo. The prophet began his labors in Judea in the second year of Darius Hystaspes, the restorer of the Mazdean worship. He thus describes the encounter with Satan: "He showed me Joshua the high-priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to be his adversary. And the Lord said unto Satan: 'The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?' " ‡

 

P482
Belial is not entitled to the distinction of either god or devil. The term l[Ylk--X-a , BELIAL, is defined in the Hebrew lexicons to mean a destroying, waste, uselessness; or the phrase l[Ylk--X-a AIS-BELIAL or Belial-man signifies a wasteful, useless man. If Belial must be personified to please our religious friends, we would be obliged to make him perfectly distinct from Satan, and to consider him as a sort of spiritual "Diakka." The demonographers, however, who enumerate nine distinct orders of daimonia, make him chief of the third class — a set of hobgoblins, mischievous and good-for-nothing.

 

P507
In the Old Testament the expressions "gates of death," and the "chambers of death," simply allude to the "gates of the grave," which are specifically mentioned in the Psalms and Proverbs. Hell and its sovereign are both inventions of Christianity, coëval with its accession to power and resort to tyranny. They were hallucinations born of the nightmares of the SS. Anthonys in the desert. Before our era the ancient sages knew the "Father of Evil," and treated him no better than an ass, the chosen symbol of Typhon, "the Devil." * Sad degeneration of human brains!

 

 

 

Its my understanding Blavatsky did not believe in Satan existing and if he does, she seems to think he's a low level nothing spirit with the occult symbol of an Ass.

 

How that can make her a Satan worshiper is beyond me.

[Morpheus]

22 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

it serves a purpose to them.

Word!

[Morpheus]

35 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

The Church of Satan once tweeted that Blavatzky is not a Satanist because she was discussing the roots of Satanism 75 years before the Church of Satan was founded. 
 

Well, not sure about you all, but that is me convinced!

Crowley was a Satanist, well before Church of Satan was founded (he died approximately 20 years before it was founded). These people take from all areas and incorporate, the inner core of the occult is still Luciferian always has been, the hidden societies within hidden societies. Operating from a position of infiltration in the most influential areas.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Crowley knocked about with Aunt Bessie, who was a Marxist, knocked about with Marx, Rudolf Steiner, was also part of the fabain society (we know who was part of that club), as was Crowley, show were Satanists/Baal worshipers and this is probably why there is this connection. 

 

Annie Besant is probably a bit more fascinating that Blavatsky, but being a disciple begs the question of what theosophy is and it's intentions. Considering her associations with Marx and other questionable individuals, it's not a hard thing to do to make the connection that these evil fuckers have influenced more evil fuckers. Rothschild was connected to Blavatsky as well, so when we boil it all down, they're all pissing in the same pot. More wolves in sheeps clothing seeking to hide the existence of God. 

 

I'm not sure there's even a separation here, different ideologues but pushing the same message subtle message.

 

I think my common ground with Pi is religion has been infiltrated, debased and used as a control mechanism for the masses. It's been inverted and the bible has been tampered with and is missing volumes. The issue is what is the truth in all this?

 

That's all I seek, the truth. In my opinion, god is real, in what capacity, the who, the what, the wherefore, is up for debate.