23 year old Belgian girl "euthenized" for depression

[Malbec]

2 hours ago, Macnamara said:

many people are experiencing high levels of ANXIETY but because you can't measure that scientifically it becomes a hard thing to get to grips with and if you seek help from the state and the state tells you that you are the problem you are never going to dig down and self examine and examine the world to understand why you are anxious and what you can then do to change how you live in order to resolve that anxiety and because so many people always look for quick fixes to their problems they will more than likely accept some pills from the state in the hope that it will alleviate their suffering

This a really helpful post thank you.  I imagine it's hard for anxious people to articulate or breakdown their reasons for being anxious, and then once in a habit of getting anxious (like a compulsive reaction) it happens all the time for them over what others would see as minor things. 

 

People do tend to look outwards rather than inwards, and the knee jerk reaction is go to the Dr's rather than fixing it for themselves.  Which is clearly by design. But society is riddled with various things to keep them in an anxious state, as we've seen with covid and then the continued more recent fear stories in the news. So coupled with the anxiety is a state of apathy and worthlessness, possibly compounded through excessive use of media and devices and then less and less natural social contact and interaction we would have had in previous generations. 

 

Such as teenage / young males (or females) who are into gaming. They aren't getting the normal social interactions to develop then they have anxiety about going to the shop, or ordering something on the phone. Which progressively worsens. They're also living in a virtual world whilst gaming as well.  

 

It all just seems a recipe for disaster, separation between family members who share a home because of devices, add pharma drugs into the mix and make them worry about a load of stuff being pushed in the news constantly (currently the cost of living crisis). 

 

 

[Malbec]

6 hours ago, Shake said:

I have always thought about suicide. I have always thought of buying some "laughing gas" aka nitrogen oxide and ending it all.

I hope you're ok... please send me a message if you need to talk. 

[Tinfoil Hat]

10 hours ago, Shake said:

I have always thought about suicide. I have always thought of buying some "laughing gas" aka nitrogen oxide and ending it all.

 

I hope you can find some joy, Shake, to convince you that life is precious. 

 

 

[Youknownothingbutyou]

11 hours ago, Shake said:

I have always thought about suicide. I have always thought of buying some "laughing gas" aka nitrogen oxide and ending it all.

Suicide is very very very bad karma

you will not have a good rebirth

 

think about your family, nature, the fucking bird sings.

life can be beautiful no matter how horrible our society 

[Shy Talk]

5 hours ago, Malbec said:

This a really helpful post thank you.  I imagine it's hard for anxious people to articulate or breakdown their reasons for being anxious, and then once in a habit of getting anxious (like a compulsive reaction) it happens all the time for them over what others would see as minor things. 

 

People do tend to look outwards rather than inwards, and the knee jerk reaction is go to the Dr's rather than fixing it for themselves.  Which is clearly by design. But society is riddled with various things to keep them in an anxious state, as we've seen with covid and then the continued more recent fear stories in the news. So coupled with the anxiety is a state of apathy and worthlessness, possibly compounded through excessive use of media and devices and then less and less natural social contact and interaction we would have had in previous generations. 

 

Such as teenage / young males (or females) who are into gaming. They aren't getting the normal social interactions to develop then they have anxiety about going to the shop, or ordering something on the phone. Which progressively worsens. They're also living in a virtual world whilst gaming as well.  

 

It all just seems a recipe for disaster, separation between family members who share a home because of devices, add pharma drugs into the mix and make them worry about a load of stuff being pushed in the news constantly (currently the cost of living crisis). 

 

 

 

Spot-on posts. The alarming thing about what seems now to be a tidal wave of anxiety is that the majority are younger people. Personally, the people I know who have it to an extent that they have medical assistance haven't even started taking on the burden and stresses of what most adults have over the years. By that I mean marriage, kids, mortgage, let alone having to go to war etc. It reminds me of a quote from Victor Lewis-Smith when ME became headline news - 'I wonder how many farmers in Sub-Saharan Africa have been diagnosed with it?'.

 

We're on a very slippery slope.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Shy Talk

[- TZC -]

I have an inherent belief that if you commit suicide you have 'done yourself'

I feel peoples pain and I'll just say, don't do it. No matter how tempting it is, you don't want to keep coming back for more, now do you?

[Macnamara]

16 hours ago, Malbec said:

This a really helpful post thank you.  I imagine it's hard for anxious people to articulate or breakdown their reasons for being anxious, and then once in a habit of getting anxious (like a compulsive reaction) it happens all the time for them over what others would see as minor things. 

 

People do tend to look outwards rather than inwards, and the knee jerk reaction is go to the Dr's rather than fixing it for themselves.  Which is clearly by design. But society is riddled with various things to keep them in an anxious state, as we've seen with covid and then the continued more recent fear stories in the news. So coupled with the anxiety is a state of apathy and worthlessness, possibly compounded through excessive use of media and devices and then less and less natural social contact and interaction we would have had in previous generations. 

 

Such as teenage / young males (or females) who are into gaming. They aren't getting the normal social interactions to develop then they have anxiety about going to the shop, or ordering something on the phone. Which progressively worsens. They're also living in a virtual world whilst gaming as well.  

 

It all just seems a recipe for disaster, separation between family members who share a home because of devices, add pharma drugs into the mix and make them worry about a load of stuff being pushed in the news constantly (currently the cost of living crisis).

 

yes i think a lot of kids are being raised by the television and a lot of adults are constantly measuring themselves against others on social media. Is it a tool that we use or does it use us?

 

'consumerism' relies on people feeling insecure so that they will keep buying stuff. Its a constantly moving target all driven along by the corporate media

 

Social media then creates echo chambers where people all seek assurance from other people. The majority of people are of personality types that are common which means that everywhere they go it seems to them that people are like themselves because by and large they are

 

I guess an upside to that is that they feel they belong in the world but a downside to that is that when an echo chamber is created on social media those people will all keep parroting to each other whatever they have been handed by the corporate media

 

when they are told to take the covid jabs to protect each other from covid they all say this to each other on and off social media and if a voice that isn't perceived as conventional tries to break that spell it is like trying to shout over the sound of a large waterfall

 

This is then alienating for those non conventional voices which in turn can impact their wellbeing. The corporate media as the grand manipulator then bullies those non mainstream voices and implies that they are crazy or somehow deficient to further seek to isolate them. It's preventing humanity from righting itself through communication because those non conventional voices can often have perspectives that enrich the mix and undermine false narratives

Edited October 13, 2022 by Macnamara

[Artie Fufkin]

12 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 

yes i think a lot of kids are being raised by the television and a lot of adults are constantly measuring themselves against others on social media. Is it a tool that we use or does it use us?

 

'consumerism' relies on people feeling insecure so that they will keep buying stuff. Its a constantly moving target all driven along by the corporate media

 

Social media then creates echo chambers where people all seek assurance from other people. The majority of people are of personality types that are common which means that everywhere they go it seems to them that people are like themselves because by and large they are

 

I guess an upside to that is that they feel they belong in the world but a downside to that is that when an echo chamber is created on social media those people will all keep parroting to each other whatever they have been handed by the corporate media

 

when they are told to take the covid jabs to protect each other from covid they all say this to each other on and off social media and if a voice that isn't perceived as conventional tries to break that spell it is like trying to shout over the sound of a large waterfall

 

This is then alienating for those non conventional voices which in turn can impact their wellbeing. The corporate media as the grand manipulator then bullies those non mainstream voices and implies that they are crazy or somehow deficient to further seek to isolate them. It's preventing humanity from righting itself through communication because those non conventional voices can often have perspectives that enrich the mix and undermine false narratives

Not to mention the destruction of social hubs like pubs, where people can have a 'couple'..dispose of societal restrictions and speak their minds to friends and others, who may feel comfortable enough to listen to an alternative point of view, and take these ideas on-board.

[Macnamara]

1 minute ago, Artie Fufkin said:

Not to mention the destruction of social hubs like pubs, where people can have a 'couple'..dispose of societal restrictions and speak their minds to friends and others, who may feel comfortable enough to listen to an alternative point of view, and take these ideas on-board.

 

absolutely....they want people isolated, in their homes and glued to the tv

 

it's interesting to see weatherspoons getting eviscerated after owner Tim Martin was very vocal about his support for brexit

[Artie Fufkin]

1 minute ago, Macnamara said:

 

absolutely....they want people isolated, in their homes and glued to the tv

 

it's interesting to see weatherspoons getting eviscerated after owner Tim Martin was very vocal about his support for brexit

Aye  the 'spoons model is fantastic for me..buy short life booze, sell it cheap, have pubs with no music so people can talk to each other. The bad reputation of 'spoons is down to the customers, not the hardworking staff, buildings, or Tim Martins' correct policy on Brexit.

[Macnamara]

12 hours ago, Artie Fufkin said:

Aye  the 'spoons model is fantastic for me..buy short life booze, sell it cheap, have pubs with no music so people can talk to each other.

 

sometimes when you are out and about and you need somewhere for lunch....it can be just the ticket.

[Artie Fufkin]

9 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 

sometimes when you are out and about and you need somewhere for lunch....it can be just the ticket.

 Agreed 'spoons food will fill you and keep you going on a cold day in town and that has to be commended.  But i remember back in the early 80's when 'pub grub' became a thing, that most boozers in our town started serving proper home cooked meals for a very reasonable price. The majority were freehold licencees, so weren't strangleholded  by corporate 'brewing franchises' The pubs were packed at lunchtimes with workers and families, no-one was wrecked, and everyone was having a good time, and enjoying their food. How time changes eh? 

[Campion]

9 hours ago, Macnamara said:

sometimes when you are out and about and you need somewhere for lunch....it can be just the ticket.

 

We like it too but the beer is suspiciously cheap compared with other pubs so I'm a bit worried they're not paying the workers or suppliers very well, like the supermarkets don't.  Or perhaps it's all the other pubs which are overcharging? 

[Ethel]

On 10/12/2022 at 8:35 PM, Youknownothingbutyou said:

Suicide is very very very bad karma

you will not have a good rebirth

 

This is based on the erroneous assumption that all human beings have friends and family. Some human beings have neither. If someone like that commits suicide, it's on them, and they shouldn't feel obliged to stay. It's their business, nobody else's. This society and it's ever decreasing lack of community stinks of fucking shit. Sorry, but I get really angry when people misunderstand this topic. Walk a mile in the shoes of someone who feels completely alone.

 

On 10/12/2022 at 8:35 PM, Youknownothingbutyou said:

think about your family, nature, the fucking bird sings.

life can be beautiful no matter how horrible our society 

 

Life can be beautiful, that is true. However, no suicidal person ever wants to hear this. I will let you in on a little secret, and if you understand what I am about to tell you it might potentially save a life at some point in the future. I have both been suicidal and personally knew someone who did it. They were a friend and I failed to see the level of pain they were in. I have to live with that knowledge.

 

No suicidal person ever wants to hear how beautiful life is. It doesn't matter whether it's subjectively true or not, a person cannot go from fear and despair to happiness in one fell swoop. If you want to help a suicidal person, either validate their reality by mirroring that you can understand why they see the world how they see it, or find some other way to raise their feelings state, i.e. by making them angry, since anger is actually above despair in levels of consciousness. 

 

The last thing you should tell a suicidal person is that life is beautiful. I want everyone in this thread, and if necessary, the entire forum, to hear this. It will not help them. If you're very lucky, they may temporarily suppress their despair in order to raise their emotion but it will be a false start and their despair will return at a later date. Please take my word for this. If you cannot bring yourself to validate how they are feeling because you are afraid to confront those feelings within yourself, then get up and walk away. I'm not even kidding. That would do less damage to someone who is suicidal than trying to force them to look on the bright side. I am tired of the emotional abuse that goes on in our society, it is largely responsible for the growing epidemic of depression and it is very much responsible for the suicide rate.

 

Sorry for the rant; I know it isn't just you who sees it this way, but you did highlight this issue so I chose to respond to it. 

 

Lastly: our society tells people who are depressed/suicidal that if they need help, they should reach out, and when they do, well-intentioned but woefully misguided people start trashing their perspective and telling them that they are wrong to see things how they see them, and they never are. Every single person's point of awareness is unique to them and a perfect reflection of their thoughts, beliefs, perceptions and experiences. There has never been a wrong feeling ever. When our society finally gets this, nobody will ever need to commit suicide ever again.

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Ethel

[Shake]

I have been to Belgium, Brussels to be in particular. The Dutch speaking folk didn't connect with the Frenvh speaking folk.

 

In fact, no Dutch speaking folk entered this bar in Brussels because it was a so called beer called Stella 

[Youknownothingbutyou]

"

This is based on the erroneous assumption that all human beings have friends and family. Some human beings have neither. If someone like that commits suicide, it's on them, and they shouldn't feel obliged to stay. It's their business, nobody else's. This society and it's ever decreasing lack of community stinks of fucking shit. Sorry, but I get really angry when people misunderstand this topic. Walk a mile in the shoes of someone who feels completely alone.

 

Life can be beautiful, that is true. However, no suicidal person ever wants to hear this. I will let you in on a little secret, and if you understand what I am about to tell you it might potentially save a life at some point in the future. I have both been suicidal and personally knew someone who did it. They were a friend and I failed to see the level of pain they were in. I have to live with that knowledge."

 

 Karma is always personal. "we are the heir of our karma" or something like that. If someone kill himself, its bad karma, independant of whether that person has family or not. Bad Karma doesnt necessary means bad rebirth, nor that that person is a "bad" being. OFC, for those who are not buddhist, bad karma have absolutely no meaning nor help for them, which is sad imo. in the sense that the clear understanding that our life is cyclical, that their is life after death, kinda put clearly the law of cause of effect, law of causality, law of karma, or whatever you want to call really puts out life into perspective.

 

I definitely can relate to those who contemplate about suicide: feeling suicidal is "normal". id argue every being have had the wish to not exist at one time or another. and more then once!

I cannot agree more about the lack of sense of community. And it seems that every year more and more separation are being engineered by socal media

 

"

 

No suicidal person ever wants to hear how beautiful life is. It doesn't matter whether it's subjectively true or not, a person cannot go from fear and despair to happiness in one fell swoop. If you want to help a suicidal person, either validate their reality by mirroring that you can understand why they see the world how they see it, or find some other way to raise their feelings state, i.e. by making them angry, since anger is actually above despair in levels of consciousness. 

"

 I think theres different type of suicidal beings. some more angry, others more sad and anxious, ect. Maybe for some type of suicidal beings, a way to help them will be different then for others?

 

Id argue, even those who are not suicidal dont want to be told that life is beautiful :)

 

"Please take my word for this. If you cannot bring yourself to validate how they are feeling because you are afraid to confront those feelings within yourself, then get up and walk away. I'm not even kidding. That would do less damage to someone who is suicidal than trying to force them to look on the bright side. I am tired of the emotional abuse that goes on in our society, it is largely responsible for the growing epidemic of depression and it is very much responsible for the suicide rate."

I agree. life is not wishy washy. its not easy. its not just beautiful, nor just fun. we have responsability, we will die. some have better births then others. some have disease, ect. its unfair for so many it seems. suffering is scary.

but we all have, within ourselves, pure joy and happiness. we all have inside, the desire to play, to love, to discover, to laugh.

 

I personally do not judge those who commit suicide. in a way, waiting for our death is sort of a long way to die. is the way we decide to live. Others decide to take "control" and end it.

 

I think a lot of our suffering is mental. and mental suffering is often self created, self made. I wont go too much in detail since its such a deep subject and it would be long to explain.

 

"Lastly: our society tells people who are depressed/suicidal that if they need help, they should reach out, and when they do, well-intentioned but woefully misguided people start trashing their perspective and telling them that they are wrong to see things how they see them, and they never are. Every single person's point of awareness is unique to them and a perfect reflection of their thoughts, beliefs, perceptions and experiences. There has never been a wrong feeling ever. When our society finally gets this, nobody will ever need to commit suicide ever again."

 

to add, when they seek out help, they are put on SSRI, which deplete their libido, affect their weight, ect. Often, medications makes things way worst.

 

I feel like talking about suicide is spiritual, so very complex and deep. it cannot be fully discussed here lol.

A spiritually healthy being will not commit suicide. I think we both agree with that

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Youknownothingbutyou

[Ethel]

22 hours ago, Youknownothingbutyou said:

Karma is always personal. "we are the heir of our karma" or something like that. If someone kill himself, its bad karma, independant of whether that person has family or not. Bad Karma doesnt necessary means bad rebirth, nor that that person is a "bad" being. OFC, for those who are not buddhist, bad karma have absolutely no meaning nor help for them, which is sad imo. in the sense that the clear understanding that our life is cyclical, that their is life after death, kinda put clearly the law of cause of effect, law of causality, law of karma, or whatever you want to call really puts out life into perspective.

 

Although I believe Karma exists, I also suspect it is being used to tether us to the earth realm, through the manipulation of guilt and regret. Human beings in their pure essence are light beings and in their spirit form are quite innocent and easily manipulated. That's why there is a ridiculously high reincarnation rate; because people are being shown their "mistakes" in a life review and are then choosing to reincarnate into harder and harder circumstances because of guilt and regret. None of this is necessary because it isn't possible to live a karma free life. Nobody will leave this realm having caused zero damage, it is impossible, and I believe it is designed to be impossible. There are Astral entities who have a vested interest in keeping us here for the emotional farming which goes on here, or "Loosh" as Robert Monroe called it. There is a thread on this topic here:

 

 

22 hours ago, Youknownothingbutyou said:

A spiritually healthy being will not commit suicide. I think we both agree with that

 

I don't necessarily agree with this, actually. In fact, it puts me in mind of the Khrishnamurti quote: "It is no measure of success to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society".

 

I don't necessarily agree with suicide, per se, and I definitely know it causes suffering because I miss my friend terribly. But me and various others in his life had blind spots. We were not attuned to his suffering, he was suffering in silence and his pain was not exposed to the light of consciousness. I was insensitive and sometimes mentioned things which I see now were terrible triggers for him. I should have been more attuned, I could have tried harder to stop him from isolating himself but he hurt me and my ego got in the way, etc.

 

People who kill themselves may cause grief and suffering, but often, the people left behind have to look at themselves and realize that they were guilty of a serious lack of awareness.

 

Other than that, I agree with most of what you have said.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Ethel

[legion]

Canada.. 

 

https://www.commonsense.news/p/scheduled-to-die-the-rise-of-canadas?utm_campaign=cta 

 

Scheduled to Die: The Rise of Canada's Assisted Suicide Program

What do you do when you discover your son has made an appointment for his death?

 

 

On September 7, Margaret Marsilla called Joshua Tepper, the doctor who planned to kill her son. 

Marsilla is 46, and she lives outside Toronto with her husband and daughter, a nursing student. She had known that her 23-year-old son, Kiano Vafaeian, was depressed—he was diabetic and had lost his vision in one eye, and he didn’t have a job or girlfriend or much of a future—and Marsilla asked her daughter to log onto Kiano’s account. (Kiano had given his sister access so she could help him with his email.) He never shared anything with his mother—what he was thinking, where he was going—and Marsilla was scared. 

 

That was when Marsilla learned that Kiano had applied and, in late July, been approved for “medical assistance in dying,” aka MAiD, aka assisted suicide.

His death was scheduled for September 22.

 

In a September 7 email from Tepper, the doctor, to Kiano and Tekla Hendrickson, the executive director of MAiDHouse, the Toronto facility where Kiano’s death would take place, Tepper mapped out the schedule:

“Hii,” he emailed. (Apparently, Tepper did not use spell check.) “I am confirming the following timing: Please arrive at 8:30 am. I will ask for the nurse at 8:45 am and I will start the procedure at around 9:00 am. Procedure will be completed a few minutes after it starts.”

 

The procedure entailed administering two drugs. First, a coma-inducing agent. Then, a neuromuscular blocker that would stop Kiano’s breathing. He would be dead in five to ten minutes.. 

 

To read the rest, click on the link above . 

[Talorgan]

The death cult would love to roll this out everywhere rather than help people with their individual challenges to maybe have better life on earth now

It needs more public awareness of dangers of it to stop or it will spread where they can get away with it 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Talorgan

[Sidlittle]

On 10/9/2022 at 6:03 PM, Nemuri Kyoshiro said:

What the blankety-blank is this? A healthy young woman was allowed to commit assisted suicide because she could not live with depression. She survived an ISIS bomb attack in 2016 but could no longer live with the mental fallout so, with the agreement of two psychiatrists, she opted for assisted suicide. I don't agree with Scientologists on most things, but their position on the evils of psychiatry can't be faulted. Surely there must have been a way to save this poor damaged soul?

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11291995/Woman-23-survived-2016-Brussels-airport-ISIS-bomb-euthanised-Belgium.html

 

Edit: Sorry, this story is from last May, but I only just found our about it. Mods please move if there is already a thread.

 

I appreciate there is a broader discussion about euthanasia in this tale but ultimately this is a story that derives from the alleged ISIS attack in Brussels during their European tour - Munich, Paris, Nice, Manchester, London. I suspect if Brussels was about as 'real' as the other gigs, then this whole story is a load of BS. 

[Macnamara]

On 10/14/2022 at 7:37 PM, Campion said:

We like it too but the beer is suspiciously cheap compared with other pubs so I'm a bit worried they're not paying the workers or suppliers very well, like the supermarkets don't.  Or perhaps it's all the other pubs which are overcharging? 

 

i don't know the answer to that or if there is an economy of scale aspect to it?

 

i remember a bus company once charging such low rates that for a while it made no profit but it drove out the competition and was then able to raise its rates

Edited October 18, 2022 by Macnamara

[Tinfoil Hat]

My daughter & neice once applied for part-time jobs at the local Spoons when they were in ciollege. They didn't get taken on, but I'm guessing they must have been paying the normal going rates or they wouldn't have bothered trying. 

[Artie Fufkin]

5 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 

i don't know the answer to that or if there is an economy of scale aspect to it?

 

i remember a bus company once charging such low rates that for a while it made no profit but it drove out the competition and was then able to raise its rates

There are many online businesses (legally) selling out of date, and close to out of date food and drink, their only legal position is to inform the customer before purchase that the products have passed their 'best' The sites are now raising their prices to almost supermarket levels. That is worrying.

[Campion]

9 hours ago, Macnamara said:

i don't know the answer to that or if there is an economy of scale aspect to it?

 

i remember a bus company once charging such low rates that for a while it made no profit but it drove out the competition and was then able to raise its rates

 

Could be economy of scale, but there's plenty of other big chains, including some which own both breweries and pubs so they should be able to sell their own beer cheaply. 

 

Maybe it's loss-leaders too. There was a TV programme recently about weathers which showed how they aggressively upsell on their food to get you to buy extras. Eg when you order a curry they have to ask if you want the garlic naan bread instead of plain for an extra £1. 

[Macnamara]

15 hours ago, Campion said:

Maybe it's loss-leaders too. There was a TV programme recently about weathers which showed how they aggressively upsell on their food to get you to buy extras. Eg when you order a curry they have to ask if you want the garlic naan bread instead of plain for an extra £1. 

 

that's where you have to stay strong and say 'no thanks, plain naan is fine'......unless of course you really want that garlic naan....

 

i spent a night under canvas this summer and needed to find somewhere to feed and water the family. Options were thin on the ground but there was a weatherspoons appearing like an oasis in the concrete desert, legs were tired and bellies were empty.....damn that curry and beer were fine