23 year old Belgian girl "euthenized" for depression

[Nemuri Kyoshiro]

What the blankety-blank is this? A healthy young woman was allowed to commit assisted suicide because she could not live with depression. She survived an ISIS bomb attack in 2016 but could no longer live with the mental fallout so, with the agreement of two psychiatrists, she opted for assisted suicide. I don't agree with Scientologists on most things, but their position on the evils of psychiatry can't be faulted. Surely there must have been a way to save this poor damaged soul?

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11291995/Woman-23-survived-2016-Brussels-airport-ISIS-bomb-euthanised-Belgium.html

 

Edit: Sorry, this story is from last May, but I only just found our about it. Mods please move if there is already a thread.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Nemuri Kyoshiro

[Bombadil]

39 minutes ago, Nemuri Kyoshiro said:

What the blankety-blank is this? A healthy young woman was allowed to commit assisted suicide because she could not live with depression. She survived an ISIS bomb attack in 2016 but could no longer live with the mental fallout so, with the agreement of two psychiatrists, she opted for assisted suicide. I don't agree with Scientologists on most things, but their position on the evils of psychiatry can't be faulted. Surely there must have been a way to save this poor damaged soul?

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11291995/Woman-23-survived-2016-Brussels-airport-ISIS-bomb-euthanised-Belgium.html

 

Edit: Sorry, this story is from last May, but I only just found our about it. Mods please move if there is already a thread.

Dont worry. Ill leave the topic here. Interesting subject with horrible possibilities.

[Nemuri Kyoshiro]

50 minutes ago, Bombadil said:

Dont worry. Ill leave the topic here. Interesting subject with horrible possibilities.

Oh yes! It's frightening where this is going. How long will it be before psychiatrists begin recommending assisted suicide as an alternative to treatment? Just think of all the vulnerable people out there with mental issues, drug addiction, alcoholism, being old, sickly at birth and so on. How soon before assisted suicide becomes de facto execution without trial? Another thing too. This girl is as much the victim of the EU's open borders policy than those who were killed by the actual bomb. An unintended consequence? Collateral damage? Call it what you will, but this girl's blood is on the hands of those so-called leaders.

[Ethel]

I am sort of on the fence about Euthanasia. In principle I am opposed to it because it contradicts some of my spiritual beliefs.

 

But there is a part of me which has often felt quite attracted to suicide. We have created a culture in the Western world of stoicism, suppression and denial. I can tell you all with no hesitation that mental health services in the Western world are failing and are out of their fucking depth to a degree which terrifies me. I have seen a handful of psychologists in my life and several of them more or less told me that they considered my insights better than theirs. In fact, it became pretty obvious that they had almost nothing to offer, "nice" as they were. They simply aren't equipped to deal with really severe trauma, like incest, for example. Or ritual abuse. They're out of their depth.

 

So if a person can't get adequate help from the professionals, and don't have the answer themselves, and can't function very well because of what they have been through, what should they do? 

 

I'm not saying I agree with people being allowed access to euthanasia, I'd just be genuinely curious to know what people think folks who have had really specific and highly unusual severe traumas in early life should do with themselves if they aren't able to function properly in life and suffer to a degree that their life is characterized by suffering. I would love it if people talked about this stuff, but we don't really talk about this stuff in society and I kind of think that's part of the problem. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Ethel

[Campion]

1 hour ago, Ethel said:

But there is a part of me which has often felt quite attracted to suicide. We have created a culture in the Western world of stoicism, suppression and denial. I can tell you all with no hesitation that mental health services in the Western world are failing and are out of their fucking depth to a degree which terrifies me. I have seen a handful of psychologists in my life and several of them more or less told me that they considered my insights better than theirs. In fact, it became pretty obvious that they had almost nothing to offer, "nice" as they were. They simply aren't equipped to deal with really severe trauma, like incest, for example. 

 

So sorry to hear you've been through this, which no-one should have to suffer. Were those psychologists specialised in trauma, attachment and abuse work? There are some good ones around, but they're rare and getting funding is difficult. 

 

Another thing I've learned is that there's no quick fixes. Trauma, especially with children, affects brain development and treatment needs to literally rewire the neural pathways into a more healthy pattern, otherwise you're left with chronic PTSD type symptoms. 

 

So my message would be, don't give up, keep pestering your medical services for more help. Because at the end of the day, people just want the suffering to end, not their lives. It's when they lose hope of finding any other way out of the suffering that they think of suicide. I would like to rekindle some hope that life can get better. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Campion

[Ethel]

7 minutes ago, Campion said:

 

So sorry to hear you've been through this, which no-one should have to suffer. Were those psychologists specialised in trauma, attachment and abuse work? There are some good ones around, but they're rare and getting funding is difficult. 

 

Well they claimed to be but I have my doubts. CBT is definitely not useful for serious trauma.  I have recently been doing Internal Family Systems (IFS) Therapy with myself and have actually had some quite useful results. 

 

9 minutes ago, Campion said:

Another thing I've learned is that there's no quick fixes. Trauma, especially with children, affects brain development and treatment needs to literally rewire the neural pathways into a more healthy pattern, otherwise you're left with chronic PTSD type symptoms. 

 

 

Yes, it affects the brain. I received no help as a child. Family caused a lot of the trauma and at school most teachers were pointing the finger at my behavioural problems. And yes, I have live with the characteristics of complex trauma my whole life. I have helped myself way more than any therapist has helped me, tbh.

 

12 minutes ago, Campion said:

So my message would be, don't give up, keep pestering your medical services for more help. Because at the end of the day, people just want the suffering to end, not their lives. It's when they lose hope of finding any other way out of the suffering that they think of suicide. I would like to rekindle some hope that life can get better. 

 

Thanks, I have only ever been passively suicidal though. I actually have a ridiculously high survival instinct, but I am very intimate with despair. I think I can help myself. I am a very strong person, which is good. Thank you for your concern.

[Macnamara]

A person can get hold of a suicide kit if they want to end their life but the danger of such a thing being made legal is that it could be abused

 

Its the start of a slippery slope to where bill gates wants things where 'death panels' decide who lives and who dies. Also people could simply disappear into the system and could be offed by the state who could simply say that the person wanted that.

[Fluke]

16 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

A person can get hold of a suicide kit if they want to end their life but the danger of such a thing being made legal is that it could be abused

To my mind whether its jumping in front of a train or shooting yourself or drugging yourself your last moments are always going to be painful to my knowledge. I have been passively suicidal too and my cowardly half arsed plan was to try and get a shot gun and shoot my head off in a town hall down in London when i was in my early 20s. I used to be in charge of a building. Hanging could go wrong, you could end up doing incorrectly and remain in a brain damaged state. I suppose "guilt" might be a helpful state for someone to go through with it but who knows. It depends how much pain someone is in. I think the idea that its "cowardly" is a bit of a myth as well. My point is even with those suicide kits I doubt their accuracy. 

 

The only other way would be the old hosepipe to a car with engine running job but not sure if that still works? I read a grizzly news article about a man who attempted suicide in his garage and cut himself lost 4 pints of blood panicked and ended up with hiv due to blood transfusions.

 

Of course the big elephant in the room is the state having the power to decide, and at what point does it become encouraging etc etc. Then we have stories like recently in the media with switching the life support off. I cannot help but think it is part of the agenda.

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Fluke

[TheConsultant]

I have had my fair share of childhood trauma and now have permanent brain damage due to it, PTSD quite literally changes the functioning of your brain and even shows up in scans. That does not mean you cannot work within it and adjust, the best medicine initially is to not play victim. No you didn't ask for this, no your don't deserve it, no it isn't fair but none of thinking along those lines actually helps you or anyone at any point. 

I know you are not in that category of victimisation, you appear to be standing within yourself to truly take on the world as you see it, root down further in your standing and continue to hold your head high and breathe deep breaths. The key to changing mentality is physiology as the brain and sympathetic nervous system will follow the body. Not a single thing can undo PTSD/childhood trauma as far as I am aware although some more recent studies on psychedelics look incredibly promising. EMDR also has its place with very positive results and in some very specific circumstances, hypnotism. But ultimately you got dealt a difficult hand and sometimes just spouting off about it helps. In any case I wish you the best in this life, its not easy, if just more people spoke openly I think we would all be helping one another but very few are able to deal with the conversations. As you say the specialists are largely not equipped to deal with anything of any real substance not by a long way but that doesn't mean they don't exist, they absolutely do and generally are involved because of their own childhood trauma, PTSD, anxieties, depression etc. The best ones are the ones who have dealt with similar on a personal level not the people reading from textbooks attempting to create artificial bonds with someone because that helps the other person open up, or discounting aspects of reality because they simply do not believe it possible. 

The world will be waking up to what some people have lived through, it is only a matter of time before we collectively look at it and deal with it, because if this is truly the best we humans can do, I wish to not be a further participant. But I wholeheartedly believe we are capable of so much more and I include everyone in that!

[webtrekker]

30 minutes ago, Fluke said:

I have been passively suicidal too and my cowardly half arsed plan was to try and get a shot gun and shoot my head off in a town hall down in London when i was in my early 20s.

 

Not a great plan that, but one that needs to be successful first time around.

 

A few years back a local farmer got into some big debt when a housing scheme he was involved in went tits up. He took his shotgun into the middle of a field and tried to blow his head off. He only managed to blow off his bottom jaw and went through months of agony. However, a relatively short time later he succeeded with his plan.

 

 

 

[Mikhail Liebestein]

Am I am allowed to support a euthanasia proposal for anyone scared of COVID?

[jack121]

My sister used to work as a nurse, euthanasia has been common practise in uk hospitals for many decades, anyone old, anyone who they consider a burden to the system, anyone they don't like, gets injected with drugs until their heart ruptures, then it all gets labelled as heart attack, covid, monkey pox, or some other blatant lie. The cruel culling continues unabated, unless you are royal or some other kind of sellout traitor, then you get the good stuff

[Human10]

16 hours ago, Nemuri Kyoshiro said:

What the blankety-blank is this? A healthy young woman was allowed to commit assisted suicide because she could not live with depression. She survived an ISIS bomb attack in 2016 but could no longer live with the mental fallout so, with the agreement of two psychiatrists, she opted for assisted suicide. I don't agree with Scientologists on most things, but their position on the evils of psychiatry can't be faulted. Surely there must have been a way to save this poor damaged soul?

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11291995/Woman-23-survived-2016-Brussels-airport-ISIS-bomb-euthanised-Belgium.html

 

Edit: Sorry, this story is from last May, but I only just found our about it. Mods please move if there is already a thread.

This is worst fail in these psychiatrists careers... They should go work to the supermarket instead. 

[Human10]

11 hours ago, Fluke said:

To my mind whether its jumping in front of a train or shooting yourself or drugging yourself your last moments are always going to be painful to my knowledge. I have been passively suicidal too and my cowardly half arsed plan was to try and get a shot gun and shoot my head off in a town hall down in London when i was in my early 20s. I used to be in charge of a building. Hanging could go wrong, you could end up doing incorrectly and remain in a brain damaged state. I suppose "guilt" might be a helpful state for someone to go through with it but who knows. It depends how much pain someone is in. I think the idea that its "cowardly" is a bit of a myth as well. My point is even with those suicide kits I doubt their accuracy. 

 

The only other way would be the old hosepipe to a car with engine running job but not sure if that still works? I read a grizzly news article about a man who attempted suicide in his garage and cut himself lost 4 pints of blood panicked and ended up with hiv due to blood transfusions.

 

Of course the big elephant in the room is the state having the power to decide, and at what point does it become encouraging etc etc. Then we have stories like recently in the media with switching the life support off. I cannot help but think it is part of the agenda.

 

Life is a change. And you will never know what will happen tomorrow. Everyone had really bad days but "after the rain comes sun" and this is a fact... The girl looked overweight - she possibly missed the Sun, oxygen from intensive exercises and nutrients. It can't be supplemented by Prozac... 

[RidgyDidgy]

Belgium seems like a wack sort of place

[Tinfoil Hat]

I'm sure some physical problems, like thyroid or parathyroid issues can make people feel depleted like everything is a struggle, without a specific physical symptom to think of seeing a GP about. That might explain being overweight also if it's the former. The least any medical professional should be doing is running some investigatory blood tests before encouraging execution! There could be a simple solution to making someone feel feel a new zest for life. 

 

I feel sad for this girl.

[greatdayforfreedom]

How long before people go to the doctor and say..... Patient:  'Doctor, I'm feeling depressed. Doctor: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that, would you like to die? I can arrange for that to happen immediately'. 

[Macnamara]

26 minutes ago, greatdayforfreedom said:

How long before people go to the doctor and say..... Patient:  'Doctor, I'm feeling depressed. Doctor: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that, would you like to die? I can arrange for that to happen immediately'. 

 

that's not the next phase though

 

The next phase is for doctors to deal with people over the phone instead of face to face. This is to pave the way to the next stage which is to get rid of the human doctors altogether and replace them with artificial intelligence

 

So if it gets to the stage you are speaking about it would likely be a robot that offers you instant death. Maybe they will send a death drone round to inject you

[Campion]

On 10/9/2022 at 10:34 PM, Ethel said:

Well they claimed to be but I have my doubts. CBT is definitely not useful for serious trauma.  I have recently been doing Internal Family Systems (IFS) Therapy with myself and have actually had some quite useful results.

 

Glad to hear you're finding something that works, even if only partially. I guess it shows the need to try different things and get a second opinion, not just rely on the first referral your doctor comes up with.  

 

On 10/9/2022 at 10:34 PM, Ethel said:

Yes, it affects the brain. I received no help as a child. Family caused a lot of the trauma and at school most teachers were pointing the finger at my behavioural problems. And yes, I have live with the characteristics of complex trauma my whole life. I have helped myself way more than any therapist has helped me, tbh.

    

On 10/9/2022 at 10:34 PM, Ethel said:

Thanks, I have only ever been passively suicidal though. I actually have a ridiculously high survival instinct, but I am very intimate with despair. I think I can help myself. I am a very strong person, which is good. Thank you for your concern.

 

I think dealing with childhood trauma is the responsibility of all of society really, not just psychologists and therapists.  Schools should have trauma awareness training and regulation techniques to get to the root of the problems rather than just use discipline to try and suppress the behaviours. Police too: some kids are so affected it's like having brain damage and punishing them just makes it worse. And yes self-help can be great; in fact a lot of it comes down to what we practice outside the therapy room, they should be teaching us techniques to use so we can become self-reliant rather than dependent on professionals all the time. I have the same approach with spirituality and religion: I don't want other people's answers all the time, I'd rather learn their techniques to help me find the truth for myself.  

Edited October 11, 2022 by Campion

[Malbec]

I work with a lot of people who have suffered trauma, and i find that some don't realise the extent of their trauma and cannot articulate or understand what the root cause is. So what I tend to deal with is the end result of trauma that hasn't been addressed or treated(?) usually through criminal activity. 

 

It's absolutely harrowing a lot of the time.  I also now find they are mislabeling  themselves with general anxiety and depression. And they generally say they have mental health issues, whilst often not explaining or understanding he root cause. Its easier just to use the blanket term term have been given.  This isn't a criticism, but they have faced professionals over the years in various capacities, who have misdiagnosed them in order to then administer a pharmaceutical band aid in the form of prescription drugs that they are paid to administer to that sector of society. I know 'mental health' affects all classes of society, but society has been designed to breed all of this disillusion, which can be labelled as MH. 

 

Then at the same time,that disillusion and disappointment is bundled in and pigeon holed in the same way as genuine trauma. 

 

Take the convid period for example, and the amount of people who haven't had any support (cpn nurses ,face to face drs appts ,family around them whatever), this is obviously ging to have an adverse effect on people with relatively minor (?) Mental health issues let alone genuine psychotic and trauma victims. 

 

I hope what I've said doesn't belittle anyones genuine problems.  I feel sorry for those who are mislabelled, misdiagnosed and dished out pills without being given treatment for any root cause. Then victim mode slips in for a lot of the people I deal with,who think or realise they are a victim, but they don't actually fully understand why. And then that's another label.

 

Sorry to ramble. It just pisses me off.

[Malbec]

I perhaps should have added actually, you then also get people who say they're mentally ill when they're totally fine. But because it's such a subjective thing to quantify, no one can argue with someone saying "I have mental health problems". 

 

Certain drugs (or comedowns from them), alcohol (or the depressive after effects), social problems, losing children to the care system, no money/ being on benefits and having a load of consumerism stuff you can't afford constantly being thrown in your face would cause an element of uselessness and helplessness. (And actual trauma: bereavement or losing a child etc) 

 

But society is definitely designed to make people feel this way, and to then bring further problems to the children of those who have these sorts of problems. 

 

The current problem locally, in Birmingham Wolverhampton and Walsall, (and nationally judging by the news) is very young street kids / gang members sorting their very minor problems out with knives and killing people their own age, or just causing a general anti social blight on their community.  It really upsets me that no preventative work is being done with the children or the community. And really young children are doing county lines stuff, holding zombie knives and firearms. 

 

So I'm not saying all of those people have mental health problems, but they are a product of broken society and a possible lack of identity at home? Maybe their parents are too busy watching programmes or on their phones, or looking after the younger children(?) it's really hard to work out what's gone wrong and pushing all of the blame on the parents isn't fair.  Plus their used to be bigger families with more children in the olden days and they didn't go around behaving like that then. 

 

But back to the OP, a lot of people say they're mentally ill to usually help themselves get a lesser sentence sooner or later, or to get help or sympathy from professionals.  So that may be a poison chalice that they've been nurtured or conditioned to wield. 

 

There's also the victim mentality that comes with it with medication being part of the label. 

[Macnamara]

3 hours ago, Malbec said:

 it's really hard to work out what's gone wrong and pushing all of the blame on the parents isn't fair. 

 

psychiatry has for a longtime now been trying to tell the world that mental health is due to chemical imbalances in the brain which can then be corrected with big pharma drugs. Some of them even argue that it is a genetic issue thereby implying that its set in stone for that person and has nothing to do with the persons circumstances

 

However RD Laing took schizophrenics out of their home environment and created a calming environment for them to be in and found improvements in their mental health. So really what we are looking at here is that peoples mental health is affected by how ANXIOUS they are. If they are a little anxious they can develop neurosis and if they are very anxious they can develop mania.

 

This has huge implications for our society because it means that if people are experiencing mental health problems there must be a lot of anxiety in our society which means that there is a problem with how we are living our lives. The people who run the system however do not want to acknowledge this because they are very rich and comfortable and they hold all the power so instead they tell people that they are mentally unwell because they have an inherent flaw and that the state can fix them by drugging them into silence (chemical cosh)

 

There does not exist ANY medical test that can find physiologically a mental 'disorder'. Psychiatry has created the 'disorders' by observing the behaviours of anxious people and then labelling the clusters of behaviours as various 'disorders'. They can create a disorder for anything and they put these categories in a book that they update all the time called the The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)

 

So for example if i was a psychiatrist i could say that talking on the david icke forum was not normal behaviour and was in fact a sign of mental ill health and i could label that as 'oppositional defiant disorder' and then this would empower the state under the mental health act to lock everyone who uses this forum up WITHOUT TRIAL and forcibly drug us in order to pacify us. If we tried to resist they could inject a '5 and 2' injection into us to knock us out in order to contain us.

 

That's what psychiatry in its current format is: containment.

 

So you ask what has gone wrong in society? One thing i would say that is wrong is that many many people are experiencing high levels of ANXIETY but because you can't measure that scientifically it becomes a hard thing to get to grips with and if you seek help from the state and the state tells you that you are the problem you are never going to dig down and self examine and examine the world to understand why you are anxious and what you can then do to change how you live in order to resolve that anxiety and because so many people always look for quick fixes to their problems they will more than likely accept some pills from the state in the hope that it will alleviate their suffering

Edited October 12, 2022 by Macnamara

[Shake]

I have always thought about suicide. I have always thought of buying some "laughing gas" aka nitrogen oxide and ending it all.

[Macnamara]

2 minutes ago, Shake said:

I have always thought about suicide. I have always thought of buying some "laughing gas" aka nitrogen oxide and ending it all.

 

that is terrible. Do you consider yourself to be anxious in anyway?

[alive]

do not commit suicide/euthanasia.   you will go to hell for sell-murder.    go on youtube and watch the videos of those that tried to commit suicide, and were taken to hell by God in order that they must go back and tell people what awaits them.    i am the victim of attempted suicide and saw parts of hell.  i survived so i'm telling you all do not do this murder.