Is suffering required to play this game? Is it a gift?

[Mr H]

So I will have to preface this before this is misunderstood.

 

Speaking as a human character, I DO NOT enjoy suffering and I've done more than my fair share over the years in various guises. And I do not wish suffering upon anyone. I do not want to make light of any suffering and anybody suffering right now I have the deepest empathy for.

 

Also when I speak later about not resisting this does not mean to not take any action and sit under a bodhu tree and hope it goes away (that IS resisting!). In my experience not resisting what comes up leads to MORE and freer action than the one who resists what is and what comes up..............

 

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

 

 

There was a sage in India who prayed for suffering. They believed that was the only way to evolve to the highest truth.

 

If I look back upon my experiences, after suffering experiences, on the other side I am much more knowledgeable about the nature of things.

 

Humans will do anything to avoid suffering and will seek comfort (resistance). Suffering is deemed to be bad and to be avoided. If we suffer we tend to want to seek out relationships, substances and experiences to alleviate our suffering. But in the background it is there until you come and stare it in the face and see it for what it is.....

 

The knowledge given to me via suffering is the rules of the game we are playing here.

 

We are consciousness playing a game of hide and seek. Consciousness has forgotten itself in an illusiory world, apparently made up of a multiplicity and diversity of objective experience. And the game is to wake up. Which means, to realise that you are consciousness (then all perceived suffering ends). In fact, everything is consciousness. There is no real multiplicity and diversity of objective experience, only in mind.

 

So how is the game to be played? How do you get from A to B? 

 

I am suggesting that the vehicle is suffering.

 

In fact I do not know of anybody who has become enlightened (I define as realising the game that you are consciousness) without suffering.

 

What is suffering?

 

Suffering is defined as the resistance to what is. If you didn't resist something, you would not suffer by definition.

 

Suffering is caused by the belief that you are a discrete entity upon which things can be done to you. "He did this to me" they are doing that to me" "this is happening to me". All of which is directed at a separate individual character. A misidentification of the I with being a fragile person. If you understand that there are no real individuals here, then you will understand that at the highest level of truth - although there is suffering, there is no one who really suffers.  And with the knowledge and with direct experience of the true I - the real escape hatch from perceived suffering illuminates itself. 

 

Suffering is the path

Not resisting is the method

Infinite consciousness and peace awaits you............

 

 

 

 

[Mr H]

The only person I know who was born enlightened and with the rulebook from birth was Ram Daas. He said that he had to learn how to suffer to understand the human mind and help them free themselves....

[Mr H]

My belief, not knowledge, is that we are experiencing a mass suffering event right now. Consciousness wants to wake up and play a new game...............

[Mr H]

Do humans need to suffer to be enlightened?

 

Absolutely not. But no one teaches humans the truth in our culture. Only comfort and a navigation towards a life of pleasure via objective experience. So the way to shake them out of the trance and delusion is suffering. Humans enjoying comfort being an echo of consciousness' natural innate state - being in a permanent state of peace (as spoken about in previous thread). 

 

It sounds like a sadistic game that consciousness is playing. But that is only from the perspective of the character in the movie. Once you realise there is no one suffering, that person you believe exists doesn't exist, and you know what the game is, to awaken, it's not really sadistic.

 

This also answers the age old question, "why does God allow suffering?"

Edited June 23, 2022 by Mr H

[Mr H]

The next level of "the game" to continue with the gaming analogy is to live within the illusiory world with the knowledge of who we truly are, that is consciousness. To be a function of consciousness/god and not a function of the ego (which doesn't really exist/an illusion within an illusion). The above is the process to get to level 2.

 

This does mean giving up "individual" expression. Indeed it leads to more freedom of expression without the confines of the ego. It is the same in nature. Trees are not in control of their destiny, they are a function of nature, yet each tree has it's own unique beautiful, individual expression and job to do. What it does mean is giving up the illusion of the controller, the ego.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Mr H

[novymir]

Yeah.

 

It's simply the result or consequence of denial/rejection of Reality=Self=(Truth). We repress, suppress our RealSelf to have the experience of what we are not... any denial of The Real is like an attack on Self. Which is not going to be a nice experience, and denial of What Is will result in what-is-not. Though, it may be perceived-believed, that doesn't make it actually Real. It then becomes virtual reality. A dream of delusion.

So, basically what this thing offers is degradation of self, by the acceptance of the unreal-untrue. Anything not that is not of this world(or the untrue), yet It is still present within and All-Encompassing, It's everywhere all the time, but the will to detach from it puts a veil(e v i l) superimposed over it and we become caught up in the illusion.

Basically, the novelty of being fake will wear off, especially as the nightmare progresses. Being virtually detached from Truth can only be a nightmare-hell, and suffering is a result.

 

Mick and Co. have 2 messages...one on the surface...another one from deep inside...one means nothing, the other means everything(The Real):

 

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by novymir

[Origin]

23 hours ago, Mr H said:

This also answers the age old question, "why does God allow suffering?"

Has your God waged countless wars against other humans? Did your God teach lying? To gain wealth at the expense of others? Did your God invent religions? Slaves, resource depletion? Has your God given humans the illusion of power? Did your God teach humankind to be so cruel? The list is endless.

 

The question is rather why have humans created an absurd fake reality and imagine themselves speaking in the name of the so-called God? Your God is not here and there will be no interference from this intelligence. Humans want their own hell? Congratulations, they are in the centre of it.

[Youknownothingbutyou]

the truth of suffering

the truth of the cause of suffering

the truth of the state of mind devoid of suffering

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Youknownothingbutyou

[BornFreeNowAgain]

This is an interesting thread. I would say there is some 'truth' to this, from my own experiences and from seeing this play out in others lives. But recently I have been wondering and I suppose reassessing some of my old beliefs. Now I wonder if 'suffering' is truly necessary for soul evolvement, or if this 'suffering' is just another part of the 'Matrix' that we are involved in here? Maybe as 'humans' we are prone to look for the meaning of things, the higher purpose because we struggle to accept that bad stuff just happens; so we look at our 'suffering', as it having some higher purpose. Or maybe it is simply the 'animal' aspect of us that searches for the 'lessons' so that we don't repeat them and thus increase our chances of survival.

 

6 months ago I was 'locked into', lessons, growth, journey's, duality, suffering as evolving, suffering as a way to evolve consciousness. At this moment in time I am no longer sure of this. I think perhaps aspects like, suffering, karma, growth, ascension are merely traps of the 'New age' or 'False-Light'. Just a different net designed to catch those who slipped out of the big net. So at this stage I am now unsure of the 'suffering as evolving' idea. Maybe it is simply a 'rule of this game', built in to co-opt those people who have suffered and want answers. 

[DaleP]

I'd say it's not necessary but those that have no clue will suffer naturally. If they are living deviated from the law of nature then of course they are going to get pain just as if you go against cold weather and go out with no clothes, you'd get frost bites and pain etc. But the pain has its purpose and it will let you know that you need to be on the correct path. How many realise this? Not like you OP who is willing to dive deep, and many are oblivious too it.

 

Anyway, we are on varying levels of awakeness and imo once you reach a certain level, you will get a few bumps here and there but no disaster will fall on you.

And even if you encounter a problem, you'll know how to manipulate a situation due to download/insights you'd get.

 

EDIT: Ah just read what you wrote. So basically I am saying the same thing but in a different way.

 

On 6/23/2022 at 12:20 PM, Mr H said:

being in a permanent state of peace

 

Peace comes from being in Harmony. Harmony is torus, it is about your ability to cope changing circumstance because life is always moving. If you are centred, if you are balanced, you will be in peace beucase you will be able to deal with any situation. If you know how to then there is nothing to fear. You just need to tweak your life this way or that way.

 

On 6/23/2022 at 12:20 PM, Mr H said:

This also answers the age old question, "why does God allow suffering?"

 

The nature/the Creator doesn't cause suffering if you live by its law. It is YOU (thought not personally addressing the OP) who causes own suffering even though it looks as though someone had hit and injured you....it is your vibration which attracted that event in the first place.

Edited June 25, 2022 by DaleP

[Youknownothingbutyou]

17 minutes ago, DaleP said:

I'd say it's not necessary but those that have no clue will suffer naturally. If they are living deviated from the law of nature then of course they are going to get pain just as if you go against cold weather and go out with no clothes, you'd get frost bites and pain etc. But the pain has its purpose and it will let you know that you need to be on the correct path. How many realise this? Not like you OP who is willing to dive deep, and many are oblivious too it.

 

Anyway, we are on varying levels of awakeness and imo once you reach a certain level, you will get a few bumps here and there but no disaster will fall on you.

And even if you encounter a problem, you'll know how to manipulate a situation due to download/insights you'd get.

 

EDIT: Ah just read what you wrote. So basically I am saying the same thing but in a different way.

 

 

Peace comes from being in Harmony. Harmony is torus, it is about your ability to cope changing circumstance because life is always moving. If you are centred, if you are balanced, you will be in peace beucase you will be able to deal with any situation. If you know how to then there is nothing to fear. You just need to tweak your life this way or that way.

 

 

The nature/the Creator doesn't cause suffering if you live by its law. It is YOU (thought not personally addressing the OP) who causes own suffering even though it looks as though someone had hit and injured you....it is your vibration which attracted that event in the first place.

ever occured to you that mental suffering is caused only by you?

 

 

"The nature/the Creator doesn't cause suffering if you live by its law."

Suffering is inherent to craving.

the Creator? you mean you?

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Youknownothingbutyou

[DaleP]

24 minutes ago, Youknownothingbutyou said:

ever occured to you that mental suffering is caused only by you?

That's what I said.

 

24 minutes ago, Youknownothingbutyou said:

"The nature/the Creator doesn't cause suffering if you live by its law."

Suffering is inherent to craving.

the Creator? you mean you?

 

Yes.

[78ast78dgyad]

On 6/23/2022 at 8:28 AM, Mr H said:

So I will have to preface this before this is misunderstood.

 

Speaking as a human character, I DO NOT enjoy suffering and I've done more than my fair share over the years in various guises. And I do not wish suffering upon anyone. I do not want to make light of any suffering and anybody suffering right now I have the deepest empathy for.

 

Also when I speak later about not resisting this does not mean to not take any action and sit under a bodhu tree and hope it goes away (that IS resisting!). In my experience not resisting what comes up leads to MORE and freer action than the one who resists what is and what comes up..............

 

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

 

 

There was a sage in India who prayed for suffering. They believed that was the only way to evolve to the highest truth.

 

If I look back upon my experiences, after suffering experiences, on the other side I am much more knowledgeable about the nature of things.

 

Humans will do anything to avoid suffering and will seek comfort (resistance). Suffering is deemed to be bad and to be avoided. If we suffer we tend to want to seek out relationships, substances and experiences to alleviate our suffering. But in the background it is there until you come and stare it in the face and see it for what it is.....

 

The knowledge given to me via suffering is the rules of the game we are playing here.

 

We are consciousness playing a game of hide and seek. Consciousness has forgotten itself in an illusiory world, apparently made up of a multiplicity and diversity of objective experience. And the game is to wake up. Which means, to realise that you are consciousness (then all perceived suffering ends). In fact, everything is consciousness. There is no real multiplicity and diversity of objective experience, only in mind.

 

So how is the game to be played? How do you get from A to B? 

 

I am suggesting that the vehicle is suffering.

 

In fact I do not know of anybody who has become enlightened (I define as realising the game that you are consciousness) without suffering.

 

What is suffering?

 

Suffering is defined as the resistance to what is. If you didn't resist something, you would not suffer by definition.

 

Suffering is caused by the belief that you are a discrete entity upon which things can be done to you. "He did this to me" they are doing that to me" "this is happening to me". All of which is directed at a separate individual character. A misidentification of the I with being a fragile person. If you understand that there are no real individuals here, then you will understand that at the highest level of truth - although there is suffering, there is no one who really suffers.  And with the knowledge and with direct experience of the true I - the real escape hatch from perceived suffering illuminates itself. 

 

Suffering is the path

Not resisting is the method

Infinite consciousness and peace awaits you............

 

 

 

 

 

 

Physical or mental pain

 

 

 

 

[KingKitty]

On 6/23/2022 at 10:26 AM, novymir said:

Yeah.

 

It's simply the result or consequence of denial/rejection of Reality=Self=(Truth). We repress, suppress our RealSelf to have the experience of what we are not... any denial of The Real is like an attack on Self. Which is not going to be a nice experience, and denial of What Is will result in what-is-not. Though, it may be perceived-believed, that doesn't make it actually Real. It then becomes virtual reality. A dream of delusion.

So, basically what this thing offers is degradation of self, by the acceptance of the unreal-untrue. Anything not that is not of this world(or the untrue), yet It is still present within and All-Encompassing, It's everywhere all the time, but the will to detach from it puts a veil(e v i l) superimposed over it and we become caught up in the illusion.

Basically, the novelty of being fake will wear off, especially as the nightmare progresses. Being virtually detached from Truth can only be a nightmare-hell, and suffering is a result.

 

Mick and Co. have 2 messages...one on the surface...another one from deep inside...one means nothing, the other means everything(The Real):

 

 

 

 

Not a Rolling Stones penned tune, I'm afraid. 

 

[KingKitty]

One tends to learn more through adversity, so to that end, suffering may be beneficial. Then there's the Yin Yang aspect of it; without pain, how would one recognize pleasure...or something to that effect.

 

But, I think the words of the great Screamin' Jay Hawkins best sums up what it truly means to suffer...

 

[Tinfoil Hat]

On 6/24/2022 at 12:22 PM, Origin said:

Has your God waged countless wars against other humans? Did your God teach lying? To gain wealth at the expense of others? Did your God invent religions? Slaves, resource depletion? Has your God given humans the illusion of power? Did your God teach humankind to be so cruel? The list is endless.

 

The question is rather why have humans created an absurd fake reality and imagine themselves speaking in the name of the so-called God? Your God is not here and there will be no interference from this intelligence. Humans want their own hell? Congratulations, they are in the centre of it.

 

What species are you, Origin? You speak of the human race as 'they' as though you're not a part of it.

[novymir]

3 hours ago, KingKitty said:

Not a Rolling Stones penned tune, I'm afraid. 

 

I knew that. The Stones version reaches more people, and I like the Stones, regardless of their shortcomings. The message remains the same...

 

It's here too... it's about getting lost in the illusion, and The Truth,  which cannot be escaped , only ignored for a limited time...

 

 

ps- the "yin-yang" is a 2-faced hypocrite. Naturally.

Edited June 26, 2022 by novymir

[Origin]

6 hours ago, Tinfoil Hat said:

 

What species are you, Origin? You speak of the human race as 'they' as though you're not a part of it.

Just because I exist here doesn't mean I have to do what the others do. Since something interfered massively, I had no choice but to go my own way. I know that nothing can be changed, nor is anyone expected to interfere. The activities of Humans are becoming more and more incomprehensible to me. It is really strange as if I am just an observer. It seems to be an inevitable consequence of being exposed too often to something from the other side. And I will not forget that it interfered. Everyone has their problems, including me..

[atenea]

Good topic.

 

I personally believe suffering, or rather "pain" is necessary for growth (suffering would imply your ownership and perception of pain, but you can choose not to own it).

 

Everything we know in nature and reality goes through some sort of transformation in order to become something else. For that to happen, a change always requires to leave behind that which is comfortable or familiar. This always creates a certain degree of pain.

 

One doesn't become slimmer or stronger or fitter by doing nothing. Exercise, cutting out comfort foods, etc, require pain and discomfort, for example.

 

The shedding of old skin for a snake is painful, yet necessary for better. Same for the caterpillar and the butterfly.

 

And this never ends. It is constant.

 

Movement, life itself is constant change, therefore discomfort. And this is real happiness. The present moment of the movement, the path carved. For there is never an end or a beginning, it's all a constant struggle.

[DaleP]

39 minutes ago, atenea said:

Good topic.

 

I personally believe suffering, or rather "pain" is necessary for growth (suffering would imply your ownership and perception of pain, but you can choose not to own it).

 

Everything we know in nature and reality goes through some sort of transformation in order to become something else. For that to happen, a change always requires to leave behind that which is comfortable or familiar. This always creates a certain degree of pain.

 

One doesn't become slimmer or stronger or fitter by doing nothing. Exercise, cutting out comfort foods, etc, require pain and discomfort, for example.

 

The shedding of old skin for a snake is painful, yet necessary for better. Same for the caterpillar and the butterfly.

 

And this never ends. It is constant.

 

Movement, life itself is constant change, therefore discomfort. And this is real happiness. The present moment of the movement, the path carved. For there is never an end or a beginning, it's all a constant struggle.

 

Very well said.

Constant change =  life

No movement = dead

So it is better to accept and learn how to ride with the waves...then you never sink.

People need to realise, disasters, painful experiences are nothing but a gift in disguise. When you get a lemon, make lemonade.