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Reason why "we" don't like change, and the argument for change


Mr H
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1 hour ago, Macnamara said:

 

perhaps i'm just seeing into the 'truth movement' at a deeper level and realising that no one is on the same page

 

 

Public quaks are false idols my friend, it's down to us, Joe Bloggs Anon. We are the resistance and no one is going to blow the lid on shit. It's all controlled and the most ardent truther is still towing a line to some degree. Trust no one. 

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25 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

What changes are you referring to?

 

Micro or macro level changes?

 

If we are talking micro level then surely these are just people's every day habits which manifest as routine because without some degree of routine our lives lack meaning. Without routine our lives are essentially chaotic and lack meaning. Changes in our lives are subtle like; quitting smoking, eating less shite, exercising more, being more mindful of others etc. All very worthy things to do and are subtle adjustments of habit. 

 

In the macro we are talking about changing how we run our lives globally, maybe that would pertain to things like how we produce food, dispose of waste, general environmental impact of our daily lives, monetary, law, religion, militarily, education etc - which is a monumental task in itself and again requires structure and meaning in change - otherwise we again have chaos and lack of meaning.

 

Of course we need to be careful in this scenario what changes we make for the better or worse because they ultimately have bigger consequences than the mere adjustments to our daily habitual rituals. 

 

If I understand the original post correctly, otherwise you may need to define what you mean by change. 👍

I attempted to preface the discussion by stating that the discussion was based upon the assumption, or knowledge that what we are is consciousness. I.e. from an absolute perspective. From this view the world is illusiory, that includes all the laws that pertain to it, biology, physics, personal stories etc. By illusiory I do not mean not real, I mean not what it seems. Why do I say that? Because my experience, when closely investigated eludes to nothing existing in it's own right. It is made of sensing, perceiving and thought. Or to reduce further, knowing of sensing, perceiving and thought, which we can further reduce to knowing - or what I would call consciousness. Consciousness is the very nature of the world experience, not matter as it appears to the finite mind and which our culture promotes.

 

From this perspective I was investigating the relationship b/w why the finite body mind does not like (generally speaking) change, and whether this had anything to do with our true nature, that is consciousness. To which my thoughts are in the original post.

 

It is perfectly legitimate also to look at it from the relative perspective. That is from the experiencer in the illusion, who does experience biology, family history, laws of physics, matter etc. Then the discussion would be more about personal stories, chemical changes etc I.e. I don't like to change because my mother didn't like change. Or I don't like to change because my body is addicted to......etc.... but those reasons are already well known to us. I was attempting to get to the root of the matter.......I have found through experience that if you can identify the root in the absolute, then the relative all falls into place - regardless of the laws governing the relative world.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 

perhaps i'm just seeing into the 'truth movement' at a deeper level and realising that no one is on the same page

 

 

Sounds impossible to me. Any sort of large scale revolt can only come out of absolute necessity, and the conspirators are very clever in easing things at the right time to add more restrictions later, when things have calmed. The work of synthesizing resistance is in its infancy, so no need for panic. Things couldn't be any other way without something really unexpected happening in the political/legal arena, which obviously can't be relied upon.

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3 hours ago, Mr H said:

I attempted to preface the discussion by stating that the discussion was based upon the assumption, or knowledge that what we are is consciousness. I.e. from an absolute perspective. From this view the world is illusiory, that includes all the laws that pertain to it, biology, physics, personal stories etc. By illusiory I do not mean not real, I mean not what it seems. Why do I say that? Because my experience, when closely investigated eludes to nothing existing in it's own right. It is made of sensing, perceiving and thought. Or to reduce further, knowing of sensing, perceiving and thought, which we can further reduce to knowing - or what I would call consciousness. Consciousness is the very nature of the world experience, not matter as it appears to the finite mind and which our culture promotes.

 

From this perspective I was investigating the relationship b/w why the finite body mind does not like (generally speaking) change, and whether this had anything to do with our true nature, that is consciousness. To which my thoughts are in the original post.

 

It is perfectly legitimate also to look at it from the relative perspective. That is from the experiencer in the illusion, who does experience biology, family history, laws of physics, matter etc. Then the discussion would be more about personal stories, chemical changes etc I.e. I don't like to change because my mother didn't like change. Or I don't like to change because my body is addicted to......etc.... but those reasons are already well known to us. I was attempting to get to the root of the matter.......I have found through experience that if you can identify the root in the absolute, then the relative all falls into place - regardless of the laws governing the relative world.

 

ok and barriers to Self realisation include: attachments to the material world and to rigid, institutionalised ways of thinking and identifying too much with the role we are playing in this reality (ego identification).

 

However lol i have some concerns....

 

You see i get nervous when people start talking about 'change' especially within the arena of new age type content, not because i don't want change myself but because its my belief that the new age movement came out of the secret society network. I believe it was created by them as a way to ease people into the new world order. Many of those grassroots new agers will no doubt be good and well meaning people but if after all the 'change' occurs they simply finding themselves living within a locked down technocratic gulag controlled by the very same manipulators that crafted the whole scheme out of bodies such as freemasonry won't they end up feeling a bit.....conned? Except by then it will be too late. There will be no refunds

 

So even when we talk about breaking down rigid, institutionalised ways of thinking and being in the world there is a danger that can then play exactly into what the conspirators want for example at the moment they are desperate to destroy the US constitution and christian morality which is largely built around the family unit. Those things are seen as barriers to the cabals achievement of their technocratic society

 

If you look at the british constitution it was formed over centuries which means that much of it has born the test of time and has proven viable to many generations one after the other. In fact it is the lapse or rather the subversion of the british constitution and its common law and its usurpation by parliamentary sovereignty that ENABLED them to pull their covid lockdown crimes against the british public

 

The communists WANT to wipe the slate clean with everything including history. They want to post it all down the memory hole and have a 'year zero' leaving everyone with no context of who they are or how they got there which is what we humans call 'roots'.

 

This increasing nervousness as i grow older could likely be traced to parenthood and the realisation that i need to pass on something stable and viable to the next generation and that means not screwing things up by doing something completely batshit crazy.

 

So while some want to burn it all down and start again others maybe want to tweak or surgically remove the cancerous parts. For me though it is a process of seeing just how controlled the world is and then realising what a mountain lays before me to climb in terms of pursuing alternatives to those things controlled by the corporations. For example today i spoke on another thread about how the corporate produced fizzy drinks have aspartame in them. Well if you aren't going to drink their drinks then what are you going to drink? Now you have to make your own drinks or buy ones from an independent producer which likely is going to require greater effort on your part! But that is one step up the mountain. But thats just what you're drinking. There's what you eat, there's what you wear, there's what technology you use etc etc etc. To extract yourself from their beast system IS a mountain to climb but how many people are even taking the first step on that process and if they are not taking that step then how can they ever expect to end up as anything else than a helpless dependent on the incoming technocracy?

 

Because change IS coming but its either gonna be klaus schwabs change or one that we MAKE happen through our ACTION

 

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4 hours ago, Morpheus said:

Public quaks are false idols my friend, it's down to us, Joe Bloggs Anon. We are the resistance and no one is going to blow the lid on shit. It's all controlled and the most ardent truther is still towing a line to some degree. Trust no one. 

 

i know but i thought that at this stage of the game people would be agreed on certain fundamentals

 

and surely the process of working on yourself is not to allow yourself to accept your enslavement with grace but is in fact to inform and inspire your own proactive road towards freedom and away from slavery

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55 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

ok and barriers to Self realisation include: attachments to the material world and to rigid, institutionalised ways of thinking and identifying too much with the role we are playing in this reality (ego identification).

 

However lol i have some concerns....

 

You see i get nervous when people start talking about 'change' especially within the arena of new age type content, not because i don't want change myself but because its my belief that the new age movement came out of the secret society network. I believe it was created by them as a way to ease people into the new world order. Many of those grassroots new agers will no doubt be good and well meaning people but if after all the 'change' occurs they simply finding themselves living within a locked down technocratic gulag controlled by the very same manipulators that crafted the whole scheme out of bodies such as freemasonry won't they end up feeling a bit.....conned? Except by then it will be too late. There will be no refunds

 

So even when we talk about breaking down rigid, institutionalised ways of thinking and being in the world there is a danger that can then play exactly into what the conspirators want for example at the moment they are desperate to destroy the US constitution and christian morality which is largely built around the family unit. Those things are seen as barriers to the cabals achievement of their technocratic society

 

If you look at the british constitution it was formed over centuries which means that much of it has born the test of time and has proven viable to many generations one after the other. In fact it is the lapse or rather the subversion of the british constitution and its common law and its usurpation by parliamentary sovereignty that ENABLED them to pull their covid lockdown crimes against the british public

 

The communists WANT to wipe the slate clean with everything including history. They want to post it all down the memory hole and have a 'year zero' leaving everyone with no context of who they are or how they got there which is what we humans call 'roots'.

 

This increasing nervousness as i grow older could likely be traced to parenthood and the realisation that i need to pass on something stable and viable to the next generation and that means not screwing things up by doing something completely batshit crazy.

 

So while some want to burn it all down and start again others maybe want to tweak or surgically remove the cancerous parts. For me though it is a process of seeing just how controlled the world is and then realising what a mountain lays before me to climb in terms of pursuing alternatives to those things controlled by the corporations. For example today i spoke on another thread about how the corporate produced fizzy drinks have aspartame in them. Well if you aren't going to drink their drinks then what are you going to drink? Now you have to make your own drinks or buy ones from an independent producer which likely is going to require greater effort on your part! But that is one step up the mountain. But thats just what you're drinking. There's what you eat, there's what you wear, there's what technology you use etc etc etc. To extract yourself from their beast system IS a mountain to climb but how many people are even taking the first step on that process and if they are not taking that step then how can they ever expect to end up as anything else than a helpless dependent on the incoming technocracy?

 

Because change IS coming but its either gonna be klaus schwabs change or one that we MAKE happen through our ACTION

 

I have to admit I don't fully know what the term New Age movement means even though I may have used it clumsily in the past. My limited understanding is that it was started by folks such as Helena Blavatsky and some others. And I think I did read sometime in the past similar to you that these folks have some links to some of our suspects in the conspiracy field - but that is all a vague memory and maybe not accurate.

 

What I write here and try to do in the majority of my posts is to speak from experience. Not from someone else. 

 

But I don't think the sorts of things I have been saying are exclusive to me and certainly not to any new age movement (which I'm not 100% sure what that is as per above). It's found in the bible if you look hard enough, it's in Advaita tradition,  it can be found in suffism etc and can be found by the average guy on the street. who may come to these conclusions. Anyone who takes the time to check out experience for themselves.................you don't really need a teacher or book particularly.......

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Posted (edited)

My suggestion is to not believe or follow anybody and check stuff out for yourself. You have all the tools that are required. And if you don't share the same experience that's totally cool...........

 

"Anybody who tells you that he has some way of leading you to spiritual enlightenment is like somebody who picks your pocket and sells you your own watch." ~Alan Watts...

Edited by Mr H
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8 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 

 

you could start a new age club and organise a 'hug a rothschild day'

 

I'm pretty sure that would catch on in this day and age TBH.

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1 hour ago, Mr H said:

My suggestion is to not believe or follow anybody and check stuff out for yourself. You have all the tools that are required. And if you don't share the same experience that's totally cool...........

 

the problem with the technocracy is that our experiences are going to all become pretty much the same

1 hour ago, Mr H said:

"Anybody who tells you that he has some way of leading you to spiritual enlightenment is like somebody who picks your pocket and sells you your own watch." ~Alan Watts...

 

there's another saying about enlightenment: 'before enlightenment gather firewood to make a fire. After enlightenment gather firewood to make a fire'

 

its not the matrix movie. You won't suddenly gain the ability to fly away from trouble. You will still be here in this life dealing with the same situation. The ship is sinking beneath our feet. The smart cities are coming in, the 5G is being rolled out, the satellites that will form a layer of the 'cloud' are being fired into space. Its on

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6 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 

the problem with the technocracy is that our experiences are going to all become pretty much the same

 

there's another saying about enlightenment: 'before enlightenment gather firewood to make a fire. After enlightenment gather firewood to make a fire'

 

its not the matrix movie. You won't suddenly gain the ability to fly away from trouble. You will still be here in this life dealing with the same situation. The ship is sinking beneath our feet. The smart cities are coming in, the 5G is being rolled out, the satellites that will form a layer of the 'cloud' are being fired into space. Its on

Ok dude I have tried to accommodate but can't anymore I feel integrity has been lost here and you're not interested in the subject matter, and only interested in your own agenda, which then leads to further assumptions and accusations and we go round and round the merry go round. Which I must hop off with you at this point. 

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I wonder if it is more that mankind has an aversion to suffering and inconvenience rather than a dislike of change.

 

Arguably, our species could be seen as the most adaptable and, crucially in our case, much of the change concerns adapting the environment to our needs through agriculture, building, use of fossil fuels etc. We seek to "improve" that which is external to ourselves perhaps from a sense of entitlement that our needs and survival are paramount.

 

There has to be a pay off from the change to make it worthwhile. When people can see the benefits of a change - that it will make their lives easier and more comfortable in some way - they tend to embrace it. Take smart phones, cars and other forms of technology which have been welcomed with open arms. Working from home is now desired as another change that has come about through lockdowns probably because it requires less effort. Perhaps if (or when) people can derive all other pleasures artifically via constructs such as the Metaverse, they will no longer desire to venture out at all.

 

I think humans only tend to resist change when it threatens their sense of comfort. To warrant the risk and effort of resisting change, the pay off from averting it needs to exceed the cost of accepting it. This would explain why the controllers adopt a totalitarian tiptoe approach of slow adaptation and acclimatisation - boil the frog slowly and it doesn't notice until it is too late.

 

Excellent points have already been made about the ego investment associated with change. Ego is the separation of the self from that which is external to it. And a weak ego looks for external validation and/or external threats hence the importance of shadow work as has been pointed out. From inward self-reflection and simply being and knowing oneself, I feel the external reality can change (if we are not afraid for that to happen).

 

Change comes from within I think which is why I do not discount the entire "new age" movement or eastern mystical practices which are currently being demonised as being a threat to traditional Christian values. DI himself has come under fire for being "new age" and I suspect this is because he opposes religious doctrines as postage stamp thinking and instead encourages us to take what we intuit to be correct rather than conforming to specific thought forms. Should elements of "new age" thinking ring true - including meditation, breath work and other forms of self discovery - provided that doesn't lead to total passive inaction or self absorption, I wouldn't seek to put people off such enquiry.

 

A balance needs to be struck between turning inwards and an outward directed focus. Those constantly looking for external threats are sadly not aligning with DI's message in my view and are coming from a place of fear. Whilst warning about the perils of our inaction against tyranny, DI advocates for love rather than fear in the face of it, and seeks to help raise the consciousness of mankind through heart-based intelligence. He doesn't spend his time calling out others and constantly on the look out for "shills", but instead seeks to simply get his message across whilst advocating that others should not be shut down either even if they disagree with him. He fights for freedom of thought and expression and appears to be influenced from a variety of traditions of which some of his views may be considered "new age" - I consider his conclusions come from exploratory intentions of openness to experience and a willingness to trust in the universe.

 

Hopefully I haven't gone too off topic, but the concept of change has led further into consideration of ways in which to bring about change whereby "new age"  and eastern practices have come under criticism. Although DI is not here to offer his view, given what I understand of his message, I doubt he would be entirely condemning of these traditions and would not feel threatened if people appreciate what they can offer.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 6/19/2022 at 10:48 PM, Macnamara said:

there's another saying about enlightenment: 'before enlightenment gather firewood to make a fire. After enlightenment gather firewood to make a fire'

 

its not the matrix movie. You won't suddenly gain the ability to fly away from trouble. You will still be here in this life dealing with the same situation. The ship is sinking beneath our feet. The smart cities are coming in, the 5G is being rolled out, the satellites that will form a layer of the 'cloud' are being fired into space. Its on

 

Macnamara: "Its like we are the sands in a giant glass conspiracy egg timer and those sands have been running down now for centuries but we have been born right at that time where we are the last sands falling down through the chute and looking down i can see that in the chasm below is a technocratic hellscape stretching off into the foreseeable future and i'm trying to say to the other grains of sand 'we don't want to be going down there' and all the other grains of sand are doing is talking about ANYTHING except what is down that chute

 

Now if you were in an immediate EMERGENCY....lets say you've gone swimming in a creek and you see a crocodile coming towards you, are you going to start pondering on the two truths doctrine or are you going to start swimming like a lunatic for the shore?"

 

I'm seeing a lot of crossed wires in this thread between absolute and relative understandings.  Naturally I'm not going to stay meditating (or whatever) while the house is on fire. But the emergency we're in is more drawn out, so we need a clear head and good concentration, which are some of the relative benefits from this type of spiritual practice. 

 

Macnamara: "even here on this forum which you would think would be the spear point of the awakening full of people ready to be the shock troops of an alternative vision to the elites centralised vision of control but really a lot of people are into conspiratainment and just argue you with you when you try and talk about actually doing things"

 

I'm pretty new to all this conspiracy stuff and although there's a lot of chatter about it on the internet, in reality there isn't much going on in real life in most neighbourhoods. Even people who don't believe in conspiracies but oppose things like mass immigration, do little more than grumble in private and daren't say anything publicly. It's been like that for generations. They still vote for the same old politics and buy from the same global corporations. I was the same until recently (apart from voting for smaller parties) and as I'm trying to digest this material, well knowing that I can't believe it all but just trying to see the main themes, I haven't yet got as far as planning what to do about it. 

  

The reality is that conspiracy theorists are dismissed as either cranks or demonised as extremists. Most people, nearly everyone, still have faith in the current system. I don't expect much to change until there's a big shock to people's lives, perhaps an economic collapse, demographic shift, or a war. We're an underground movement, disorganised and divided. We don't yet have a strategy to start putting into action do we, or perhaps there's a hundred different strategies from as many people. 

 

The opposition on the other hand is organised into a strict hierarchy with an elite setting the agenda and don't appear to have the same problems of disagreement, disorganisation and demonisation by the majority. Given that we've fallen so far down the cliff edge already, what to do?

 

Edited by Campion
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On 6/21/2022 at 10:11 PM, Campion said:

The opposition on the other hand is organised into a strict hierarchy with an elite setting the agenda and don't appear to have the same problems of disagreement, disorganisation and demonisation by the majority. Given that we've fallen so far down the cliff edge already, what to do?

 

I don't have a problem per se with people meditating or pursuing Self realisation

 

The OP said we need to embrace change and they couched it in spiritual language so i wanted to know:

 

1) what change are we being told to embrace

2) how is this spiritual language translating into actual change in the persons life that will actually improve the world

 

I just made my point clumsily because i was not well last week

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8 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

I don't have a problem per se with people meditating or pursuing Self realisation

 

The OP said we need to embrace change and they couched it in spiritual language so i wanted to know:

 

1) what change are we being told to embrace

2) how is this spiritual language translating into actual change in the persons life that will actually improve the world

 

I just made my point clumsily because i was not well last week

Did you get the Rona lad? 🤭

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1 hour ago, Morpheus said:

Did you get the Rona lad? 🤭

 

i got the flu. Was it some sort of new strain of something? I have no idea. I certainly didn't take any test as i'm not going to give the government my DNA

 

That's the first time i've been sick in what must be 4 years. Was a typical flu experience. Felt crap for several days, did a lot of sweating and then started to feel better.

 

Certainly not worth getting a jab over nor shutting the country down over. Life goes on

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On 6/23/2022 at 5:34 PM, Macnamara said:

 

I don't have a problem per se with people meditating or pursuing Self realisation

 

The OP said we need to embrace change and they couched it in spiritual language so i wanted to know:

 

1) what change are we being told to embrace

2) how is this spiritual language translating into actual change in the persons life that will actually improve the world

 

I just made my point clumsily because i was not well last week

 

Sorry to hear you weren't well, glad you're getting better.  I've been a bit ill this weekend too. 

 

1)  I can't speak for the OP, but there is a school of thought in Eastern spirituality which advocates for an essentially passive attitude to life, acceptance of the situation as a way to liberation. To go within rather than look outside for fulfilment and happiness; it's one of a number of reasons I gave up on Buddhism. There's always some change going on, but to keep any kind of culture or identity going needs a great deal of input because there's always outside forces pushing to come in and take over with their agenda. There's a great deal of good about our civilisation which is not being highlighted at the moment, as the saying goes, 'you don't know what you've got till it's gone'.  

 

2)  This is a good point for all religion really. Are we doing it for selfish reasons, like going to heaven, nirvana, enlightenment etc? Or for the common good? Personally I think our culture had a good blend of both individualism and communalism not too long ago, but has become unbalanced recently towards individualism. Remember when Maggie Thatcher said, 'There's no such thing as society'?. Maybe that wasn't so much an ideological point, but more about the plan to weaken our social bonds. Move towards markets rather than communities. 

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21 hours ago, Campion said:

Sorry to hear you weren't well, glad you're getting better.  I've been a bit ill this weekend too. 

 

1)  I can't speak for the OP, but there is a school of thought in Eastern spirituality which advocates for an essentially passive attitude to life, acceptance of the situation as a way to liberation. To go within rather than look outside for fulfilment and happiness; it's one of a number of reasons I gave up on Buddhism. There's always some change going on, but to keep any kind of culture or identity going needs a great deal of input because there's always outside forces pushing to come in and take over with their agenda. There's a great deal of good about our civilisation which is not being highlighted at the moment, as the saying goes, 'you don't know what you've got till it's gone'.  

 

2)  This is a good point for all religion really. Are we doing it for selfish reasons, like going to heaven, nirvana, enlightenment etc? Or for the common good? Personally I think our culture had a good blend of both individualism and communalism not too long ago, but has become unbalanced recently towards individualism. Remember when Maggie Thatcher said, 'There's no such thing as society'?. Maybe that wasn't so much an ideological point, but more about the plan to weaken our social bonds. Move towards markets rather than communities. 

 

it certainly seems as if COLLECTIVISM takes root more easily in the east

 

It was the west that made legal provisions to end slavery and it was the west that enshrined certain rights in constitutions

 

when we consider that the slavery abolitionists were christians and that these constitutions that are currently such a thorn in the side of the technocratic globalists grew out of christendom we can, i think, reasonably ask what it is in that western cultural DNA that is favourable to the individual and their rights?

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"Do not love this world nor the things it offers you, for when you love the world, you do not have the love for the Father (THE ONE) in you.".

 

"Anyone who loves their life will lose it(BE RECYCLED), while anyone who hates their life in this world will find the Real and Eternal Life before and beyond it".

(GOD does NOT love this world, IT Loves the part of The Son dreaming it ).

 

They are deceived. Assimilated. In The Land of the Dead.

 

And they will scoff, and accuse, be uncomprehending, and mock...as their master operates through them.

 

2-faced hypocrite--the "world". It could care less about any of us, except for food/energy. Collectively; it's nature.

Individual exceptions to the rule of inversion only, and is the reason that "narrow is the gate that leads to Life". Individually, detached/detaching from the artificial.

Them that love the world are unwittingly "santanists/anti-Christ.". They "think" they've got it all figured out, when all they're doing is selling/compromising themselves, turning a blind eye to the factual nature of this thing, thinking they can "change" it...arrogance and pride, fear and guilt fuels this thing, it's the opposite of "Divine Creation". A fraud. A farce.

 

 

 

 


 

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On 6/20/2022 at 9:47 PM, Mitochondrial Eve said:

Perhaps if (or when) people can derive all other pleasures artifically via constructs such as the Metaverse, they will no longer desire to venture out at all.

 

 

Today on Digital Planet on the World Service they are explaining the Metaverse. 1.32 to 1.40 pm

 

What is the Metaverse and its implications?

 

"We need some solutions to real world people's and some of them could be solved in the Metaverse"

 

Our world merges with the virtual world like a Venn diagram

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