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SuperstarNeilC

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I thought the shirts slogan 'not enough' was a protest that 'not enough' was done in response to and for the victims of, the disaster.

 

If it actually meant that, not enough people (fans of the other team) died during the incident then of course he should have been ejected and charged.

 

Free speech is Free speech and as such you can get your arse kicked for what you do and say with your free speech.

 

I'll fight for your right for 'free speech' but I'll also fight you if what you 'freely speak' is offensive, stupid and downright cruel and inhuman.

 

I don't believe in 'prior restraint', but do I believe in post consequences.

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https://news.stv.tv/scotland/nearly-one-in-four-scottish-children-in-poverty-new-research-shows

 

This is all very real. I am seeing this first hand (having worked in a community foodbank) and I am extremely disgusted with the Scottish government's approach to this.

Our premises have had to close down due to increasing costs for rent and food as the Scottish government are no longer helping out food banks and larders.

Their reasoning? There is no need for food banks.

Where did they get this information? Apparently from data collected in 2018. 

Has it been updated? 

No.

 

What has happened since this ridiculous decision was made?

Many MP's have been contacted, even those high up in parliament. 

Most ignored the pleas and have not even replied and the rest have given pathetic reasoning.

Thankfully these sick individuals are being bashed for their stupid responses and lack of, but it isn't enough.

 

How can this be allowed to continue?

I know of a woman who's kids depended on our services, just to get a bit of fruit in their diet.

Honestly, it's disgusting. Shows the agenda is in full force now.

Blood is on their hands, that's for sure.

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3 minutes ago, allymisfit said:

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/nearly-one-in-four-scottish-children-in-poverty-new-research-shows

 

This is all very real. I am seeing this first hand (having worked in a community foodbank) and I am extremely disgusted with the Scottish government's approach to this.

Our premises have had to close down due to increasing costs for rent and food as the Scottish government are no longer helping out food banks and larders.

Their reasoning? There is no need for food banks.

Where did they get this information? Apparently from data collected in 2018. 

Has it been updated? 

No.

 

What has happened since this ridiculous decision was made?

Many MP's have been contacted, even those high up in parliament. 

Most ignored the pleas and have not even replied and the rest have given pathetic reasoning.

Thankfully these sick individuals are being bashed for their stupid responses and lack of, but it isn't enough.

 

How can this be allowed to continue?

I know of a woman who's kids depended on our services, just to get a bit of fruit in their diet.

Honestly, it's disgusting. Shows the agenda is in full force now.

Blood is on their hands, that's for sure.

W near where I am is one of the poorest areas in the U.K. I get that some would rather smoke and drink but most are working and trying to do right by their families. They haven’t got a chance imo.

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2 minutes ago, Bombadil said:

W near where I am is one of the poorest areas in the U.K. I get that some would rather smoke and drink but most are working and trying to do right by their families. They haven’t got a chance imo.

It's absolutely horrific. 

They have even cut back help for those with addictions (unaddressed trauma). Keeping them ill and away from any help.

 

You're right, so many working people are struggling. We had a lot of clients who were working full time and still struggled to feed their children.

How can they live with themselves by cutting this lifeline to many?

(..yet if you want to change your sex, the NHS will do it for free. Ugh! Priorities are a bit bonkers.)

I feel the adrenaline shaking through me right now, I just don't get how warped and sick things are getting.

 

Many people would come to us just to have some human contact as they were very lonely. Many elderly people too.

I just don't know what to do at this stage..but I feel something is coming.

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14 hours ago, Nemo said:

A universal basic income of £1,600 a month is set to be trialled in England for the first time under “exciting” plans drawn up by researchers.

 

That's a lot more than they pay pensioners and they're talking about increasing the pension age! This looks like a very generous carrot to get the idea of ubi accepted, then when it comes in it will be much less to keep us in a scarcity mindset. 

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Yep, we seem to be getting a lot of "lack of clarity from the Police, leading to wild speculation on social media". Nicola Bulley as well? Now I wonder if this is being done to help 'promote' the online safety bIll.........of course not, don't be silly, it's just pure coincidence with the timing again.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/bournemouth-beach-deaths-first-picture-of-girl-who-died-in-tragedy-shared-by-mother-12896644

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8 hours ago, allymisfit said:

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/nearly-one-in-four-scottish-children-in-poverty-new-research-shows

 

This is all very real. I am seeing this first hand (having worked in a community foodbank) and I am extremely disgusted with the Scottish government's approach to this.

Our premises have had to close down due to increasing costs for rent and food as the Scottish government are no longer helping out food banks and larders.

Their reasoning? There is no need for food banks.

Where did they get this information? Apparently from data collected in 2018. 

Has it been updated? 

No.

 

What has happened since this ridiculous decision was made?

Many MP's have been contacted, even those high up in parliament. 

Most ignored the pleas and have not even replied and the rest have given pathetic reasoning.

Thankfully these sick individuals are being bashed for their stupid responses and lack of, but it isn't enough.

 

How can this be allowed to continue?

I know of a woman who's kids depended on our services, just to get a bit of fruit in their diet.

Honestly, it's disgusting. Shows the agenda is in full force now.

Blood is on their hands, that's for sure.

 

Just a reminder that in 2005, before the G8 summit at Gleneagles, which coincided with the 7/7 tube attack by Peter Power of Visor Consultants, more than 200,000 people marched in support of Make Poverty History in Edinburgh, which was the largest demonstration in Scottish history. Eighteen years later.... it's worse.

 

Successive governments are presiding over continuous and terminal decline, never progress.

 

When will people finally realise, they don't serve us?

 

 

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5 hours ago, Velma said:

 

Just a reminder that in 2005, before the G8 summit at Gleneagles, which coincided with the 7/7 tube attack by Peter Power of Visor Consultants, more than 200,000 people marched in support of Make Poverty History in Edinburgh, which was the largest demonstration in Scottish history. Eighteen years later.... it's worse.

 

Successive governments are presiding over continuous and terminal decline, never progress.

 

When will people finally realise, they don't serve us?

 

 

It really is worse. I hope this wakes people up. Although, will that even make a difference?

This feels really damn awful.

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"After death of pilot - How bad ist the air in airplanes?
 

Pilot Richard Westgate died at the age of 43. During the autopsy, researchers discovered that his nervous system was severely damaged. Symptoms comparable to leukemia and heart muscle inflammation. Amsterdam. dr Frank van de Goot is a reserved man, and as a coroner, that's probably an advantage when you're autopsying bodies. When the Dutchman is supposed to examine Richard Westgate's body, he is initially skeptical when he reads the examination order: Van de Goot was supposed to find out whether the pilot Westgate, who was only 43 years old, suffered from the so-called "aerotoxic syndrome". The pathologist removed parts of the brain, spinal cord and major nerves from the legs. Even at first glance through the microscope, he was taken aback: "I immediately saw what one could expect if this theory about contaminated cabin air were to be true. With this nerve damage, I could no longer rule out the existence of an aerotoxic syndrome.” Westgate became ill from the air that every passenger and crew member breathes on an airliner. Because once the aircraft doors are closed, only so-called "bleed air" is available as breathing air. In almost all common aircraft types, the cabin air is bled directly from the engines and fed into the cabin unfiltered. The problem with this is certain chemical additives that are added to the special turbine oils and the hydraulic fluid, above all organophosphates. It is now known that even in normal operation, small amounts, in the event of a seal failure even several liters, of these toxic residues can escape, evaporate on the hot engine and condense in the cabin air. Renowned scientists have been warning of the chemical cocktail for decades. According to the international database for chemical products, many of the substances are partially carcinogenic, toxic and some are even classified as neurotoxins.
 

As early as 1999, a group of scientists from France, the USA and Australia came up with a name for the multitude of symptoms that can be triggered in humans by such oil vapor incidents. But the "aerotoxic syndrome" is still a disease that actually does not exist. The World Health Organization does not list them in the catalog of recognized diseases. Prof. Mohamed B. Abou-Donia from Duke University in the USA has been dealing with the problem of breathing air in airplanes for years. He is also involved in investigating the causes of the Westgate case. Samples of Westgate's heart muscle, cerebellum, cerebrum, spinal cord and removed nerves were sent to Abou-Donia. The professor specializes in poisoning from organophosphates, nerve agents, and chemical weapons. On behalf of the US military, he has already solved the mystery of the mysterious nervous disease among American GIs, which made headlines in the mid-1990s as "Gulf War Syndrome". For years, the scientist has been warning people not to underestimate the consequences of contaminated cabin air. “The substances that are released here cause the death of nerve cells and brain cells. The longer you are exposed to this phenomenon, the more cells die, and we see chronic effects.” Abou-Donia has developed a special blood test that can be used to detect damage to the brain. So far, however, it has only been possible to determine that cell damage has occurred. So far, the test has not been able to say whether these were caused by toxins in the oil or hydraulic vapors in the cabin air. In the meantime, the researcher has evaluated hundreds of blood samples, mostly from aircraft crews. “We found very typical markers in these samples that indicate cell death and brain damage. This leads to a variety of neurological damage.” Abou-Donia and his team analyzed Richard Westgate's cell samples for a period of nine months in a toxicological detective work. Now he has published his results in the form of a scientific case study, together with the forensic pathologist Dr. van de Goot and Westgate's last doctor, Dr. Michael Mulder.
 

It is therefore clear: Westgate suffered from symptoms that are comparable to a simultaneous illness from leukemia, multiple sclerosis, heart muscle inflammation and, in addition, arsenic and insecticide poisoning. However, all these diseases were ruled out during his lifetime. For the first time, the case study establishes a connection between the intake of contaminated cabin air in an airplane and the serious illness of an affected person. "The damage to the nervous system was consistent with damage to nerve tissue caused by organophosphates," the study said. The analyzes of Westgate's cell samples also show "atrophy of the nerves and the breakdown of the protective layer surrounding the brain cells". In addition, these poisonings "have made the nervous system and heart tissue more susceptible to further damage."
 

So far, the airline industry has pushed the problem and any responsibility for the consequences far away. There is no scientific evidence for a connection between illnesses that have increased in flight personnel in recent years and contaminated cabin air, it said. The substances that may be released are too low in concentration to cause serious harm to humans. According to Wolfgang Rosenberger from the Institute for Occupational Medicine at the Hannover Medical School, the values determined during measurements commissioned by airlines "did not exceed any existing occupational medical limit values". This position could now be shaken by the autopsy results of the dead pilot. Richard Westgate's tale of woe began in August 2011 when he lost his medical fitness to fly, a requirement for pilots. He was plagued by strange ailments such as numbness in his feet and hands, which sometimes even reached his elbows. Westgate was no stranger to the British aviation scene: in addition to his passion for flying Airbus A320 commercial aircraft for British Airways, he was a multiple record holder in paragliding.
 

Westgate visited more than 15 specialist doctors and clinics across the UK but no one was able to help him. In the meantime, the symptoms had worsened: He complained of migraine-like headaches, blurred vision, confusion, disorders of the musculoskeletal system and even paralysis of the legs. In addition, there was a strong feeling of tightness in the chest, sleep and memory disorders. One of the British doctors then committed him to a psychiatric institution. After four weeks, Westgate left the facility and traveled to Holland to see another doctor, Dr. Mulder. The pilot is driven by only one thought: He wants to get well again and get back into the cockpit. But Mulder compares his health to a "roller coaster ride." "Our investigations revealed that Westgate belongs to a group of people who are virtually unable to break down the toxins from the contaminated cabin air." Abou-Donia also believes that genetic predisposition plays a major role in processing the toxins. "Some people cannot break down these substances, or only incompletely, and are therefore more susceptible to damage to the brain and nervous system." Abou-Donia estimates that this is the case in around 20 percent of all people. According to the results of a still-experimental DNA test, Westgate belonged to a group of around three percent who cannot break down these toxins at all. In autumn 2012 he asked his lawyer Frank Cannon, himself a former pilot and owner of an airline, to ensure that in the event of his death his body would be made available to scientists for research into the "aerotoxic syndrome" and its causes.

 

A few weeks later, in the early hours of December 12, 2012, a hotel worker found him lifeless in his bed. Lawyer Frank Cannon is now preparing the trial that "Richard Westgate was denied during his lifetime". According to British law, the official cause of death must be determined in a public court hearing. Cannon is confident because "Westgate's case is not an isolated one-off. We are already working on another death of a crew member.” Pilot representatives in Germany see their suspicions confirmed. You followed the Westgate investigation and evaluated the study. "These frightening results show that nerve agents do not belong in the aircraft cabin," says Jörg Handwerg, spokesman for the Pilots' Association Cockpit (VC). Similar cases have occupied the pilots' association for eight years. "The symptoms of our members are partially congruent with the complaints listed in the study," explains Handwerg in a written statement. The US aircraft manufacturer Boeing is already taking a different technical approach to supplying breathing air. In his Dreamliner, the Boeing 787, the air for the cabin is now being taken from the fuselage again and no longer from the engines. Competitor Airbus sees no need for action so far."
 

Source: Hamburger Abendblatt

Edited by Moonlight
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4 hours ago, Moonlight said:

"After death of pilot - How bad ist the air in airplanes?
 

Pilot Richard Westgate died at the age of 43. During the autopsy, researchers discovered that his nervous system was severely damaged. Symptoms comparable to leukemia and heart muscle inflammation. Amsterdam. dr Frank van de Goot is a reserved man, and as a coroner, that's probably an advantage when you're autopsying bodies. When the Dutchman is supposed to examine Richard Westgate's body, he is initially skeptical when he reads the examination order: Van de Goot was supposed to find out whether the pilot Westgate, who was only 43 years old, suffered from the so-called "aerotoxic syndrome". The pathologist removed parts of the brain, spinal cord and major nerves from the legs. Even at first glance through the microscope, he was taken aback: "I immediately saw what one could expect if this theory about contaminated cabin air were to be true. With this nerve damage, I could no longer rule out the existence of an aerotoxic syndrome.” Westgate became ill from the air that every passenger and crew member breathes on an airliner. Because once the aircraft doors are closed, only so-called "bleed air" is available as breathing air. In almost all common aircraft types, the cabin air is bled directly from the engines and fed into the cabin unfiltered. The problem with this is certain chemical additives that are added to the special turbine oils and the hydraulic fluid, above all organophosphates. It is now known that even in normal operation, small amounts, in the event of a seal failure even several liters, of these toxic residues can escape, evaporate on the hot engine and condense in the cabin air. Renowned scientists have been warning of the chemical cocktail for decades. According to the international database for chemical products, many of the substances are partially carcinogenic, toxic and some are even classified as neurotoxins.
 

As early as 1999, a group of scientists from France, the USA and Australia came up with a name for the multitude of symptoms that can be triggered in humans by such oil vapor incidents. But the "aerotoxic syndrome" is still a disease that actually does not exist. The World Health Organization does not list them in the catalog of recognized diseases. Prof. Mohamed B. Abou-Donia from Duke University in the USA has been dealing with the problem of breathing air in airplanes for years. He is also involved in investigating the causes of the Westgate case. Samples of Westgate's heart muscle, cerebellum, cerebrum, spinal cord and removed nerves were sent to Abou-Donia. The professor specializes in poisoning from organophosphates, nerve agents, and chemical weapons. On behalf of the US military, he has already solved the mystery of the mysterious nervous disease among American GIs, which made headlines in the mid-1990s as "Gulf War Syndrome". For years, the scientist has been warning people not to underestimate the consequences of contaminated cabin air. “The substances that are released here cause the death of nerve cells and brain cells. The longer you are exposed to this phenomenon, the more cells die, and we see chronic effects.” Abou-Donia has developed a special blood test that can be used to detect damage to the brain. So far, however, it has only been possible to determine that cell damage has occurred. So far, the test has not been able to say whether these were caused by toxins in the oil or hydraulic vapors in the cabin air. In the meantime, the researcher has evaluated hundreds of blood samples, mostly from aircraft crews. “We found very typical markers in these samples that indicate cell death and brain damage. This leads to a variety of neurological damage.” Abou-Donia and his team analyzed Richard Westgate's cell samples for a period of nine months in a toxicological detective work. Now he has published his results in the form of a scientific case study, together with the forensic pathologist Dr. van de Goot and Westgate's last doctor, Dr. Michael Mulder.
 

It is therefore clear: Westgate suffered from symptoms that are comparable to a simultaneous illness from leukemia, multiple sclerosis, heart muscle inflammation and, in addition, arsenic and insecticide poisoning. However, all these diseases were ruled out during his lifetime. For the first time, the case study establishes a connection between the intake of contaminated cabin air in an airplane and the serious illness of an affected person. "The damage to the nervous system was consistent with damage to nerve tissue caused by organophosphates," the study said. The analyzes of Westgate's cell samples also show "atrophy of the nerves and the breakdown of the protective layer surrounding the brain cells". In addition, these poisonings "have made the nervous system and heart tissue more susceptible to further damage."
 

So far, the airline industry has pushed the problem and any responsibility for the consequences far away. There is no scientific evidence for a connection between illnesses that have increased in flight personnel in recent years and contaminated cabin air, it said. The substances that may be released are too low in concentration to cause serious harm to humans. According to Wolfgang Rosenberger from the Institute for Occupational Medicine at the Hannover Medical School, the values determined during measurements commissioned by airlines "did not exceed any existing occupational medical limit values". This position could now be shaken by the autopsy results of the dead pilot. Richard Westgate's tale of woe began in August 2011 when he lost his medical fitness to fly, a requirement for pilots. He was plagued by strange ailments such as numbness in his feet and hands, which sometimes even reached his elbows. Westgate was no stranger to the British aviation scene: in addition to his passion for flying Airbus A320 commercial aircraft for British Airways, he was a multiple record holder in paragliding.
 

Westgate visited more than 15 specialist doctors and clinics across the UK but no one was able to help him. In the meantime, the symptoms had worsened: He complained of migraine-like headaches, blurred vision, confusion, disorders of the musculoskeletal system and even paralysis of the legs. In addition, there was a strong feeling of tightness in the chest, sleep and memory disorders. One of the British doctors then committed him to a psychiatric institution. After four weeks, Westgate left the facility and traveled to Holland to see another doctor, Dr. Mulder. The pilot is driven by only one thought: He wants to get well again and get back into the cockpit. But Mulder compares his health to a "roller coaster ride." "Our investigations revealed that Westgate belongs to a group of people who are virtually unable to break down the toxins from the contaminated cabin air." Abou-Donia also believes that genetic predisposition plays a major role in processing the toxins. "Some people cannot break down these substances, or only incompletely, and are therefore more susceptible to damage to the brain and nervous system." Abou-Donia estimates that this is the case in around 20 percent of all people. According to the results of a still-experimental DNA test, Westgate belonged to a group of around three percent who cannot break down these toxins at all. In autumn 2012 he asked his lawyer Frank Cannon, himself a former pilot and owner of an airline, to ensure that in the event of his death his body would be made available to scientists for research into the "aerotoxic syndrome" and its causes.

 

A few weeks later, in the early hours of December 12, 2012, a hotel worker found him lifeless in his bed. Lawyer Frank Cannon is now preparing the trial that "Richard Westgate was denied during his lifetime". According to British law, the official cause of death must be determined in a public court hearing. Cannon is confident because "Westgate's case is not an isolated one-off. We are already working on another death of a crew member.” Pilot representatives in Germany see their suspicions confirmed. You followed the Westgate investigation and evaluated the study. "These frightening results show that nerve agents do not belong in the aircraft cabin," says Jörg Handwerg, spokesman for the Pilots' Association Cockpit (VC). Similar cases have occupied the pilots' association for eight years. "The symptoms of our members are partially congruent with the complaints listed in the study," explains Handwerg in a written statement. The US aircraft manufacturer Boeing is already taking a different technical approach to supplying breathing air. In his Dreamliner, the Boeing 787, the air for the cabin is now being taken from the fuselage again and no longer from the engines. Competitor Airbus sees no need for action so far."
 

Source: Hamburger Abendblatt

Recycled air in airliners has been a known problem for years. I heard many cases of this, they some times mix the air with jet fuel not on purpose but due to faults also high levels of C02 plus they dont change the filters enough i believe. I new some people who worked in the airline sector and you would be surprised what happens always trying to cut corners.

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11 hours ago, Anti Facts Sir said:

So, Bojo put Nadine on the peerage list but Dishy removed her so they've both sulked off? Is that what's happened.

 

Dunno much about her but I can't blame Bojo for maybe having a bit of a thing for her.

 

Yeah I know - I'm getting old if I find Nadine Dorries attractive!

 

duh, what's wrong with mods? I've only told Bombs to think 'getting younger each day'. :classic_rolleyes:

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2 minutes ago, DaleP said:

 

duh, what's wrong with mods? I've only told Bombs to think 'getting younger each day'. :classic_rolleyes:

I don't feel my age. But I do find myself admiring the mature ladies more now. Maybe cos the younger ones are so fecking freaky with their appearance and behaviour.

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