Have homophobia and misogyny been defeated?

[Campion]

7 hours ago, Edgewood said:

It's possible.....I've always been hugely impressed by the books of Prince and Picknett.... that last I read was about the Priory of Sion deception but I will try to get hold of Templar Revelation for some summer reading.

I can thoroughly recommend it, even though it's 25 years old now so the research may have developed since then. One thing leads to another ... reading that book has got me interested in some others. They wrote another one about the Turin Shroud, developing a theory that it shows a severed head (referencing the Joannite heretical underground religion), and the image is an early type of photograph of Leonardo himself. Also some other books researching into the links with Freemasonry, Kabbalah, the Priory of Sion  etc. The picture is essentially one of the religion of John the Baptist being suppressed by its offspring, the early Christian church (including a theory that Jesus was an Egyptian not a Jew), and creating remnants in the form of secretive organisations which continued underground with a heady mixture of the old mystery religion of Isis/Osiris (Mary Magdalene/Jesus), John the Baptist, Gnosticism and others. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Campion

[Campion]

5 hours ago, Edgewood said:

However, for all of this interesting historical exploration there in no reason to believe anything about the existence of these Archons is real. Especially as they are presented to us in such ridiculous terms and the fact that their names and attributes vary depending on the Gnostic tradition. Athoth the Archon, apparently has a sheep’s face, the second, Eloaios has a donkey’s face while the seventh Archon representing the planet Saturn they call Sabbataios, has a face of flame and fire. It’s all a little silly and is probably best not taken particularly seriously and indeed my thoughts of Gnosticism are that although it might be of some comfort to believe that the world is created by evil Gods with animal faces, it isn’t necessarily true and it really doesn’t do much for one’s quality of life. It’s all just a fancy and abstraction. No different from the Kabbalah. The question is why do people invent these fancies and who are they? The origin of these Archon fantasies and much of Gnosticism seems to centre on one place in particular: Alexandria in Egypt. This place became the centre of Gnosticism and is home to all of the major currents of Gnosticism.  

Thanks for the info, this is all fascinating, even though I find it a little difficult to draw it all together into a coherent understanding. For example, if the origin of Gnosticism was Alexandria, that great centre of learning, then how about if it was a development of earlier Egyptian mystery religions (Athoth = Thoth?) mixed with some Greek influence (Archons). 
And from the Ancient Aliens TV series a thought occurs to me that maybe the animal faces are an allegorical reference to masks worn by the ancient shape-shifting alien Gods to travel in disguise as humble creatures while they were really the puppet masters, the pyramidions of us all. 

[Campion]

Getting back on topic, the other day I saw a documentary on Are You Being Served, and they had a helpline number at the end 'for anyone who has been affected by the issues in this programme'. As well as the disclaimer at the start of the programme that it contains language of its period which some may find offensive; that's now common in old 60s & 70s comedies like AYBS, Carry On, On The Buses etc. I've not decided if this trend represents the defeat of homophobia & misogyny; an encouragement of the offence industry; the TV channel's paranoia about compensation claims; or just someone seeing how far they can push this to create a reaction - reductio ad absurdum. 

 
https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/are-you-being-served-secrets-scandals/ 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Campion

[Edgewood]

17 hours ago, Campion said:

Thanks for the info, this is all fascinating, even though I find it a little difficult to draw it all together into a coherent understanding. For example, if the origin of Gnosticism was Alexandria, that great centre of learning, then how about if it was a development of earlier Egyptian mystery religions (Athoth = Thoth?) mixed with some Greek influence (Archons). 
And from the Ancient Aliens TV series a thought occurs to me that maybe the animal faces are an allegorical reference to masks worn by the ancient shape-shifting alien Gods to travel in disguise as humble creatures while they were really the puppet masters, the pyramidions of us all. 

 

But Alexandria was not the centre of the Christian story...... most of what happened with the establishment of the early church in Jerusalem is lost....

 

However we have limitless apochryphal and dubious 'gospels' seeded from what appears to be a group who were in constant opposition to Christianity in its early years......

 

It also cannot be a coincidence that Alexandria was a hotbed of occult and proto-Kabalistic thought.....

 

[Campion]

@Edgewood  sure, after Christianity got going it moved around a lot, and got into conflict with other small sects, Jesus wasn't the only Messiah claimant and the area was religiously diverse. My interest in Alexandria was in the origins, whether Jesus lived there, perhaps he and John were Egyptian Jews from the community there who developed a kind of syncretism between Judaism and the Isis/Osiris religion.  

 

The existence of multiple Gospels (which weren't codified into the Biblical canon until later) attests to the large variety of Christianities in the early days before the enforced conformity by the powers that be. 

[Edgewood]

But have you studied the gnostic gospels?

 

Many of them, if not full of inconstancies or ribald nonsense cannot be compared in any means to the canonical gospels and the Gospel of Thomas.

 

Because the best way to subvert the truth is to bury it under a pile of lies and nonsense.

 

You have to implement mental textual analysis and discernment, and reading many of the gnostic gospels it is clear to see they have no relationship to Christianity at all. While others, deliberately seem to be trying to subvert it.

 

This tactic of disinformation is as old as the hills......

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Edgewood

[Edgewood]

I spent a phase thrilled and excited by the Nag Hamadi texts...but after years of study it became clear I was sifting through garbage and the worst kind of Kabalistic nonsense.

[pi3141]

On 6/15/2022 at 9:10 PM, Campion said:

 (including a theory that Jesus was an Egyptian not a Jew),

 

The Spiritualists have it that he was Apollonius of Tyana, a Greek philosopher who became St Paul in the Bible.

 

Largely a Pythagorean who spent some time further East before coming back and preaching. Later fled for his life and spent his last days quietly.

 

I guess he maybe one of the real personages the Roman Biblical Jesus is based on.

[Edgewood]

On 6/9/2022 at 11:43 PM, pi3141 said:

 

No, I recomended quaker, I believe they have a better understanding of Christs teachings than most other churches and of course they are Christian. 

 

I also attend Unitarian and Spiritualist churches, again both Christian.

 

I read and study the Bible, I am buying second hand copies of the Anchor Bible series, its expensive but more so new, and I use free linux software called Bibletime which has every version of the English Bible going back to middle English as well as Hebrew and Greek and of course the Lexicons and dictionary's to go with it.

 

Its not professional but I'm not a professional researcher, its a hobby and interest.

 

And you say I hate Christianity?

 

I for my part am a Quaker. I had attended various meetings throughout the country for years and found their 1 hour of silent meditation, usually in a sunny sunlit room, very valuable for some personal healing and comradeship.... Particularly the meeting house in Wanstead East London, they have a really nice sun-lit meeting room, and it is no coincidence that they call their central meeting room in Euston The Light.

 

However from joining the Quakers and perhaps taking a closer look at them, they are a largely a bunch of do-gooding liberals, grumpy old women, atheists and some very sinister individuals who are clearly doing a job at subverting the whole thing  from within....  and doing their best to remove it as far from its roots as a politically antagonistic transcendental Christian fellowship as possible, and make it some kind of cosy pet of the political elites. For instance it is rife with UN pagans in positions of power and control..... and it is no coincidence that they have a Meeting House and representation at the UN.

 

I am still happy to be a Quaker because I know there are many conservative minded Quakers out there and one day when I return to the UK I intend to somewhat reach out to them and provide a transcendental and morally more conservative regular Christian based meeting..... which is easy to set up one you are a Quaker.

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Edgewood

[Gnostic Christian]

On 6/12/2022 at 2:36 AM, Itsa said:

The other animals will attack them

This is an outright lie.

 

Any intelligent competing male likes the notion of fewer competitors.

 

Homophobes are stupid to want more competition.

 

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian]

On 6/12/2022 at 9:11 AM, pi3141 said:

It proves that for much of the last two millennia, in parish churches and cathedrals throughout Christendom from Ireland to Istanbul and in the heart of Rome itself, homosexual relationships were accepted as valid expressions of a God-given ability to love and commit to another person,

 

Christianity has treated gays and women issues like moral yo-yos and take advantage of each group when convenient.

 

Women are ignored or rejected by clergy, until fund raising time. That is when men kowtow to their religious women.

 

The same with gays, in the sense of liking them when warriors are required to die for the nation, yet denigrate them otherwise.

 

This is creating really poor right wing religious citizens.

 

Regards

DL

  

 

 

 

[Gnostic Christian]

On 6/12/2022 at 10:22 AM, KingKitty said:

"Homophobia", the word it's self is ridiculous. It suggest one who has a fear of homosexuality. I've never known a straight person who was afraid of someone's homosexuality. Uncomfortable with it yes, but not afraid. Those types of stereotypes were reinforced through television and movies, like everything else. 

 

If fear is not the source of the hate, what is?

 

Love biases creates hate biases.

 

Are you suggesting that homophobes love the positives of heterosexuality too much?

 

Not likely, so what do you suggest is the source ofr the hate?

 

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian]

Just the numbers makes your last correct.

 

As to glorification. Who is glorifying gayness?

 

Last time I looked, they just wanted an end to the discrimination without a just cause.

 

Or do you see a just cause to hate gays?

 

Regards

DL

 

[oddsnsods]

I got nothing against what queers do behind closed doors in their own privacy, but what we are seeing now is a perfect example to why a  lot of so called "homophobes" were preaching about..give em an inch.. they want to play with your kids.

 

All the gays I know are nothing to do with any LGBT+ agenda, they just wish to be left alone & mind their own.

 

The agenda has clearly been weaponised by the usual (((suspects))) as an excuse to push through Orwellian hate crimes & totally destroy any kind of normality in society along with other minority identity politics.. aka colour revolution, as in synthetic fake left agenda aka WOKE BS driven by the ELite & shoved down your throat by their corporations.

 

I dont believe transexuals should have any place in serious government, most definitely not as a minster of health. And most definitely shouldnt be pushed to children.

They are also reducing the age for a child to have a sex change or be mutilated for life without needing consent from their parents. This is pure abuse & there will be severe repercussions in the future. Along with the puberty blockers, they give to young confused children, usually brainwashed by they freakshow parents.

 

So yes it has everything to do with a Satanic alien transhumanist agenda being forced on us. Unfortunately when the pendulum swings many innocents will pay the price for a small minority of nihilistic freaks & we might possibly end up back in the dark ages..order out of chaos.

 

 

[Gnostic Christian]

Not polite.

 

Regards

DL

[pi3141]

15 hours ago, Edgewood said:

I for my part am a Quaker.

 

 

I used to go to church as a kid, C of E, gave it up early. A number of years ago, for a number of reasons, I started on a new spiritual journey, I had questions I wanted answering. I started reading, a member of the forum recommended Tolstoy - The Kingdom of Heaven is Within, another member recommended The Devils Pulpit by Rev Taylor, from there I was led from one book to another. At the end I thought - 'Christ, I may well be reading a load of crap here I better get some advice'. So I contacted a Medium, told her I didn't want a reading, although I would welcome it, but what I was after was answers to my spiritual questions, I gave examples - is there a Hell, does Satan exist, are Women spiritually inferior, is it a sin to be gay, among others. The Medium responded those questions were above her pay grade and anyway, she said, I already knew the answers (which was true, I just needed a sounding board)

Well I left it for a bit, then I thought 'No I really need this answered' the Medium I contacted was trained at a Spiritualist Church, my father spent some time as a medium for a Spiritualist church so I thought I'll go. I searched and it turns out my local spiritualist church met at the Unitarian church. Unitarian? Whats that, I wiki'd, and lo and behold, I found a Christian sect with close beliefs to my own! So I attended the Spiritualist meetings, got my answers, and then attended the Unitarians and Quakers. Having read Tolstoy and his opinion of Quakers, their beliefs and knowing their form of worship, which I agree with, I came to the conclusion I was a mixture of Quaker and Unitarian, I still find the Unitarian a bit Pagan and hence I have more affinity with the Quakers and that form of ceremony. I mainly go to the Spiritualist church.

 

The real worship for me, the best church, is going to the park and feeding the ducks or going to the woods and feeding the squirrels. I say a quick 'Thank you' and I'm done.

 

The Spiritualist church, to me is true spirituality - Sunday worship in a C of E or Catholic church is dead worship, I mean that as Hollow worship, without meaning or significance, nothing magical happens in those places, in fact in a major act of hypocrisy, magic, divination etc is frowned or banned and yet the Roman Catholic church themselves study the stars, their savior performed feats of magic, religion is based on magic, so to deny it, frown on it, remove it from your ceremony leaves nothing spiritual left (imo). If you don't have a direct experience what are you paying for? Without experience you have just ritual mumbo jumbo and Pagan ceremony's devoid of any real spiritual experience, resulting in a load of self loathing, narcissistic, brainwashed idiots.

 

That's not to mention the oppression and crimes against humanity perpetuated by the church through the ages for its own political and financial gain.
I agree with David Icke's assessment, especially for the Roman Church - its a control system.

 

The twisting of scripture to enforce a perverted world view and enable their crimes, I cannot see how anyone can support the organized religion sprung from the Holy Roman Church. Hell, Satan, Original Sin, Immaculate Conception, Trinity, Women made inferior, you have to kneel and whisper mumbo jumbo and pay the church for the privilege to do so. Who are these people with their evil doctrines. Twisting the minds of its followers away from God, condemning all who don't believe in 'Their Savior' only 'They' have the path to God through 'Their' Jesus Christ. We're all evil, born in sin, live in sin but through them and them only you can be saved, and how do they behave when they've been 'saved'? Judgmental and Narcissistic. I'd ask for my money back.

The last time I heard a Christian Vicar speak he said that belief in 'Our' Jesus Christ means you 'May' be saved. They don't even guarantee salvation now, just a maybe. Centuries ago they were so sure of their ability to save they could sell you indulgences and you could willfully go out and sin and they could wipe that clean and guarantee a salvation. Now its a maybe, but only if you believe in 'Their' Jesus Christ who is Lord, not God, Jesus is Lord and adherence to the particular branch of Christianity he was from 'May' get you saved.

 

If a person has no knowledge of spiritual matters or even the occult then you have no business with religion, stay away, you are spiritually blind and can easily be lead with falsehoods. If you remove Magic and Spiritualism from religion it dies, its a meaningless experience for which you pay handsomely, spiritually though, you lose.

The Roman church and its subsidiaries will mess you up, they will instill a belief system that destroys your soul and spiritual connection to God. As far as I am concerned, you can take the whole of the Old Testament, rip it out of the Bible and throw it away and most of the New Testament, its been edited and interpreted by the church in a disgraceful way. The gospel of John is a load of crap which barely covers its purpose to simply support the previous God Spells, it literally ends with 'he did all these things, and he did the other things people say he did, and he did so many other things it would be impossible to write them' as some sort of apology for not including any detail, writing a very hurried account and basically just endorsing all the other writings about him for which the author John probably didn't know. Its a fucking joke. Where's the Gospel of Mary Magdalene? Someone we KNOW had direct experience of the one we call Jesus? She wrote one, why is that not included up front and centre in the New Testament. She was first to see him after the supposed resurrection, so we could actually have an account of that miraculous event, but no, its not given. Probably the most important event in Christian tradition and yet an eye witness of the event and her account is left out of the official Bible - Why?

 

I call myself a Christian now, because I try to follow the religion OF Christ, the religion he followed, not the religion about Christ that these false churches propagate. I've re appropriated the term, I'm a Christian now. Don't have to belong to a church to be a Christian, a follower of Christ. Just because you follow doesn't mean your subordinate. ('These thing I do.....')

 

I go now to the churches to show my support. Due to work I can only go alternate weeks, Quakers and Unitarians meet at similar times I can only go one or the other. Spiritualists meet fortnightly in the evenings, sometimes it coincides with days off from works sometimes it doesn't. None of the churches have big attendance - sometimes only half a dozen of us there, but I go when I can just to show support, occasionally I receive messages at the spiritualist church and of course, I mostly go there. I've had my message from the Spiritualists, of course they haven't confirmed everything one by one but I've been told that my guide had led me to read what I have read, discover what I have found, and that I am absolutely on the right path - that was from a serving Christian Vicar! 

[Edgewood]

You have to be careful with the Spritualist Church..... I would say they are not Christian because they deliberately traffic and communicate with spirits. I have a friend who used to attend and shortly after she started to hear voices... Hearing voices is not good.

 

This is extremely dangerous..... because most spirits out there are imposter spirits....

 

You only have to read about the experiences of people who have opened themselves up to spiritual contact discover the reality of the evil earthbound spirits which are constantly plaguing mankind:

 

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Edgewood

[pi3141]

7 hours ago, Edgewood said:

You have to be careful with the Spritualist Church..... I would say they are not Christian because they deliberately traffic and communicate with spirits. I have a friend who used to attend and shortly after she started to hear voices... Hearing voices is not good.

 

This is extremely dangerous..... because most spirits out there are imposter spirits....

 

You only have to read about the experiences of people who have opened themselves up to spiritual contact discover the reality of the evil earthbound spirits which are constantly plaguing mankind:

 

Yes as far as Roman Christianity and its subsidiaries, the rules say stay away from Divination and Sorcery. But this is my problem with Christianity, they say don't do Divinity, don't commune with Spirits, meanwhile they study the stars and the sun for signs of the coming end times, they intercede to commune with spirits for you - you can't do it, but its alright for them. They try to keep people spiritually blind.

 

As far as all spirits being impostor - doesn't make sense. Are you saying that we have a soul, when we die we go somewhere else, but instead of contacting the dead we contact other spirits? Well, where do these 'other' spirits come from? Who inhabits the spiritual realm, are there two spiritual realms, one for us and one for impostor entities? Who are they, where do they come from, were they alive once or are they just discarnate spirits of no fixed origin that populate an Astral realm? Seems a bit far fetched to me.

 

What about trying to commune with Deity, thats spirit, am I not allowed to do that? Is that not the whole point of religion to come to know God and hopefully experience it while alive? Wouldn't that be classed as Spiritualism too?

 

As I understand it there are 'realms' some people get stuck between this one and the next, but when your there your able to go only as high as your development will allow. You continue to develop on the other side and ALL, CAN, reach the Kingdom of God. 

 

Can you see what I'm trying to say - there are spirits, we are spirits, but our spirits go to another spirit realm and cannot possibly come anywhere near this realm, but there is another realm, close to this realm, with other spirits of unexplainable origin that occupy a different spiritual realm to the one we go to when we die? 

 

Seems overly complicated to me. Spirit world is spirit world, when you die you go into spirit and you can go anywhere you wish, yes there are evil entities but there are good ones too. Yes there are impostors but they are not all impostors. What I think your saying is there is the earth realm, physicality, surrounding that is a spiritual realm of only impostor evil spirits - again, where do they come from, and then above that is the spiritual realm with all the dead souls and God? The dead souls can't cross into the impostor realm and we can't perceive beyond the impostor realm. Well how would we experience God then? Some do, some say they felt or was touched by God, is that an impostor God to or is God not barred from crossing the spiritual realm from the true realm to the impostor realm? If God can do it as spirit why not other spirits? Why can spirits only occupy one realm and not cross into the impostor realm - as I understand it, when you are spirit there are no limitations, go where you want.

 

So I believe in the communion with Angels and Spirits, its reported countless times in Religious texts, it was alright for them, it was alright for the purposes of supporting religion, but somehow its not alright for me.  The prophets who met with Angels weren't all good and Holy people, sometimes the meeting changed their faith to a believer, but its not alright nowadays, somethings changed. I don't buy it, people who put that information out are trying to keep you in the dark. It seems to be mostly pushed by religions who say, 'keep away from spirit, but come to us and we'll do it for you, for a fee'.

 

RE Voices in the head. Yeah it can be scary, I opened myself up and it scared me so I shut it down again. Maybe your friend was actually Mediumistic and attending the church opened them up and they began to 'hear' If you don't know or are not expecting it, it can be daunting. Question your sanity and all that. I've been there, I've had voices in my head of dead people, spoke in rhyme, felt spiritually connected to everything, saw 'signs' everywhere, I think I've been saved by Angels a couple of times. If I do it again, I will do it under supervision. Its not for everybody, for some its almost a curse, woken up all through the night with voices in your head etc.

 

But nobody should be afraid of it, its a part of our experience and reality.

[KingKitty]

From Wikipedia:

 

George Weinberg (May 17, 1929 – March 20, 2017) was a Jewish-American psychologist. He was the author of several books. He coined the term "homophobia" in the 1960's, it first appearing in the press in 1969.

 

He began contemplating it after remembering having witnessed abhorrence towards a lesbian friend while preparing to deliver a speech in 1965. The word was first printed in Screw on May 5, 1969, followed by Time a few months later. Gay Times stated after his death in 2017 that he invented it in 1965. By 1972, Weinberg explained the use of term in Society and the Healthy Homosexual. He suggested that those who harbor prejudice against homosexuals, and not homosexuals themselves, are suffering from a psychological malady, an irrational state of mind. Weinberg, though heterosexual himself, became a leader in the ultimately successful struggle to have homosexuality removed as a diagnostic category from the DSM, the professional therapeutic handbook. He was instrumental in shifting public perception of homosexuality.

 

Homophobia is as real as unicorns. 

[KingKitty]

On 6/17/2022 at 11:37 AM, Gnostic Christian said:

Just the numbers makes your last correct.

 

As to glorification. Who is glorifying gayness?

 

Last time I looked, they just wanted an end to the discrimination without a just cause.

 

Or do you see a just cause to hate gays?

 

Regards

DL

 

"glorify"  verb

to make glorious by bestowing honor, praise, or admiration, to elevate to celestial glory

 

Creating a flag to show one's sexual preference would seem a bit glorifying, to me. Having a yearly parade in every major city to promote one's sexual preference seems a bit glorifying, as well. Turning that once, small, isolated, yearly parade into a global "holiday", and turning the month of June into Gay Pride month, seems like glorification, to me. 

 

[Anti Facts Sir]

On 6/17/2022 at 7:37 PM, Gnostic Christian said:

As to glorification. Who is glorifying gayness?

 

Last time I looked, they just wanted an end to the discrimination without a just cause.

Sure.

[KingKitty]

On 5/22/2022 at 2:00 PM, Anti Facts Sir said:

Eh?

He has this very same thread on the "Religion & Secret Societies" page...started on the same date as this one. 

 

Regards

KK 

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by KingKitty

[Anti Facts Sir]

Mod Note: Threads have been merged.

[Tinfoil Hat]

On 6/17/2022 at 6:49 PM, Gnostic Christian said:

If fear is not the source of the hate, what is?

 

Love biases creates hate biases.

 

Are you suggesting that homophobes love the positives of heterosexuality too much?

 

Not likely, so what do you suggest is the source ofr the hate?

 

Regards

DL

 

It might be disgust? There are more emotions than just love and hate that motivate people, so I don't understand why so many people try to reduce everything down to those particular extremes.

 

(For the record, I neither love nor hate anyone based on their sexuality unless their actions in specific connection to that intend damaging the innocent).

Edited June 23, 2022 by Tinfoil Hat

[Gnostic Christian]

On 6/23/2022 at 2:47 PM, Tinfoil Hat said:

 

It might be disgust? There are more emotions than just love and hate that motivate people, so I don't understand why so many people try to reduce everything down to those particular extremes.

 

(For the record, I neither love nor hate anyone based on their sexuality unless their actions in specific connection to that intend damaging the innocent).

I agree.

 

They do it for clarity and simplicity.

 

We try to KISS.

 

Your last is laudable, but not worth anything to the morality of the world, unless you actively speak against the religious homophobia in the right wing immoral religions.

 

In the moral sense, if you ain't with the gays and women, you are for homophobia and misogyny.

 

Regards

DL