Have homophobia and misogyny been defeated?

[Macnamara]

Just now, TheConsultant said:

Ah damn, I am out of reactions, but I assume not much more than 1 performance?

 

they had the protection of the monarch so.....in time they morphed into satirists and today.......conspiracy theorists rofl

[pi3141]

1 hour ago, Macnamara said:

So when we look at christianity in a more holistic way and also within the context of those times we can see that actually it was having certain civilising effects. Yes it didn't catapult europe in a short space of time into what today we might consider a 'liberal' society but you can see processes at work that led to a society that is pretty darn amazing for women

 

No. Why did the Suffragettes have to go through their ordeal? Is it because the church was helping them. No, it was not and had not through the centuries.

 

I quote, I can find many articles that say the same thing - 

 

Religious & Male Opposition

'The Roman Catholic Church was the religious group that most consistently opposed women’s suffrage.'

Link - https://www.nebraskastudies.org/en/1900-1924/votes-for-women/religious-male-opposition/

 

The Catholic Church & Women's Suffrage

'Throughout history, the Catholic Church opposed women's suffrage on its conviction that a woman's place is in the home.'

Link - https://classroom.synonym.com/the-catholic-church-womens-suffrage-12085123.html

 

1 hour ago, Macnamara said:

well i'm not sure i see the witch burning situation as black and white as you do because the key text in scotland that fuelled that was 'daemonologie' which was written by james the 6th of scotland who i see as a freemasonic knights templar bloodline who outwardly would profess a show of christianity whilst inwardly being a practicising kabbalist

 

And its the Jews.

 

Ok, lets ignore that for the minute, but here's some readily available public information on the Witch hunts.

 

What were the causes of the Witch Craze in Europe, 1550-1700

 

The origins of this Witch Craze are various and complex. This article will demonstrate that the craze's origins were class, gender, social and religious conflicts.

 

snip

 

There had been a widespread belief in the existence of witches and the power of black magic in much of Europe as the Church's beliefs had failed to change the folk-beliefs of the country-people, who often remained half-pagan. It seems that countless people practiced folk medicine that often involved cures and charms. These had long been tolerated by the authorities and were not considered a danger. There was a change in sorcery's legal definition during the 15th century, and sorcery was deemed to be heretical.[3]

 

At this time, the Christian community began to formulate a definite sense of witchcraft, and this involved Black Sabbaths, demonic worships, and black magic that harmed people and their property. This led to the uneducated rural population's folk religion and practices, becoming regarded as sorcery and associated with the Devil. This doctrinal shift meant that the people's folk religion was criminalized and considered to be demonic

 

snip

 

Persecution of Witches
Once heretical groups, such as the Cathars and Hussites, had been crushed and exterminated by the Church, it turned its attention to alleged witches. In the sixteenth century, there was a series of moral panics regarding witchcraft across much of the continent. There was a clear and discernable pattern to these events. Usually, there was some incident when suspicions, often unfounded, would be raised about an individual or, more usually, group activities. Those who were on the margins of society and women were very vulnerable to the charge of witchcraft. Members of the public would make accusations, resulting in people being charged with the capital offense of witchcraft or sorcery. The secular and religious authorities investigated these allegations. Not surprisingly, these charges were based upon usually false evidence. Before any trial took place, alleged witches were tortured to extract a confession.

 

These trials were rarely fair, and those who were accused of witchcraft could expect a death sentence.

 

Link - https://dailyhistory.org/What_were_the_causes_of_the_Witch_Craze_in_Europe,_1550-1700

 

 

Hence its a pretty well known historical fact that the church persecuted mostly women and that the church were the largest opponents to womens equality.

 

Yet you ignore provable history and prefer to blame the Jews.

Edited June 5, 2022 by pi3141

[tommydrifter]

5 hours ago, pi3141 said:

The real aim was to normalise sex with children.

...

One of PIE's key tactics was to try to conflate its cause with gay rights. 

...

Most gay people were horrified by any conflation of homosexuality and a sexual interest in children, says Parris.

 

I EDITED THE QUOTED POST TO MAKE IT EASIER TO READ. I CUT THE INFORMATION CONTAINED WITHIN THAT I DO NOT WANT TO REFER TO.  OTHERWISE, I DID NOT CHANGE ANYTHING.

 

BE AWARE OF CONFLATION. DIVIDE AND RULE TACTICS.

 

Through verbal associations, for example, "Jew" and "homosexual", "paedophile" and "homosexual", "pervert" and "homosexual", homosexuals, as a group, are being targeted. This is mind-manipulation. This is thought-control. 

 

DIVIDE AND RULE TACTICS

• heterosexuals vs. homosexuals

 

TRUE REALITY

• God does not discriminate
• God does not favour one group over an other group
• each case, each situation, is assessed according to the unique circumstances, of that case, situation

 

TRUE REALITY

• GOD-MIND IS NEUTRAL
• NO ABSOLUTE RIGHT
• NO ABSOLUTE WRONG

 

[Macnamara]

23 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Hence its a pretty well known historical fact that the church persecuted mostly women and that the church were the largest opponents to womens equality.

 

Yet you ignore provable history and prefer to blame the Jews.

 

I don't think 'the church' is a monolithic thing no. i think it was a tool fought over by various groups one of which was the sabbatean-jews

 

The vatican is controlled by the black nobility families so the question is whether or not they are sabbatean-jews?

 

But i do think your framing of history is petulant yes because what you are doing is feeding into the CRITICAL THEORY of the sabbatean-jewish frankfurt school which is to say to attack western culture without ever talking about the positive aspects and really if you were streetwise about all of this you would realise that the trashing of western culture which has created the most tolerant and law abiding societies on the planet only really benefits the sabbatean-jews who hope to enslave all europeans including women by trashing what exists in order to replace it with their corporate technocratic hell

 

so first off i don't think you are looking at history in context, secondly i don't think you are looking at the occult under currents that run underneath european history and thirdly i think by feeding into these simplistic narratives you are being the mug of the very people who seek to enslave you

Edited June 6, 2022 by Macnamara

[pi3141]

11 hours ago, Macnamara said:

if you were streetwise about all of this you would realise that the trashing of western culture

 

There you go again, accusing me of something I do not do.

 

I'm beginning to get the feeling you intentionally make misleading statements to confuse or divert.

 

You've done it twice now.

 

11 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 i think by feeding into these simplistic narratives you are being the mug of the very people who seek to enslave you

 

I think the same thing of those who have fallen for the 'Jews run the world' conspiracy psyop.

 

It discredits the conspiracy field as much as the Flat Earth theory. Its a simplistic view of the world. It creates hate and its peddled by foreign powers seeking to undermine our Western culture.

 

Your a tool of foreign governments seeking to destroy western culture.

 

Edit.

 

And for the record, I do not believe the Covid vaccine contained a kill switch which was to be activated by 5G and kill millions of people and instigated by Bill Gates.

 

That crap is pure fantasy for conspiracists who have lost touch with reality.

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by pi3141

[Human10]

On 6/1/2022 at 10:16 AM, Macnamara said:

i was on youtube and for some reason ended up looking nostalgically at some 1990's tv content and i was struck by how normal campness and gayness and transexualism was back then. It was all pretty accepted and wasn't a big deal

 

But then in the 2000's LGBT has been blown up into this massive thing where they are tilting at windmills and fighting against some sort of invisible bogeyman that was clearly not existent by the 90's

 

Its a storm in a tea cup so then you have to ask why they are doing it and the reason is that the impetus for it isn't really coming from grassroots gay people most of which are just quietly going about their lives the same as everyone else.

 

The impetus for the hype and noise and pressure comes from the elites themselves who own the mega corporations that control and shape popular culture. The reason they are pushing certain things is because they are waging an all out assault on western civilisation and its christian traditions of family, community and god given rights

 

The illuminati want to wield absolute power so they can't have people believing in a power that's higher than them because if they do they will not accept the absolute rule of the illuminati-state. The illuminati want the state to control everyones children so that they can brainwash them into being slaves on the technocratic-plantation so in order to do that they have to insert the state in between the children and the parents which means destroying the family bond

 

To destroy the family bond they have to attack the central gravitational force around which the family revolves which is the cooperative partnership between a man and a woman who are of one mind to raise children, nurture them, provide for them and protect them.

 

This is why the 'battle of the sexes' is pushed the whole time along with militant anti-man marxist feminism to drive a wedge between men and women and who could argue that it isn't working to a large extent when we see the level of family breakdown in the modern world?

 

The purpose of the trans agenda is not to try and make life better for people with gender confusion because the elites don't give a damn about them. What the elites are doing is pushing countless corporate products onto people that then expose them to endocrine disrupting, hormone mimicking chemicals that gender bend people and then in order to conceal their crimes they have to NORMALISE the effects they are having on people and they do this by criminalising any questioning of what is going on whilst coercing people into celebrating the changes that are being wrought on society

 

its diabolical

I had two gays in family and none of them were hanging on gay parades with kids in leather clothes pretending to be a dog or a bread... They had normal life and they wouldn't be able hide they are gay anyway... We never talked abut it... We also watch YT gay guy who can't understand what's going on in media around sexuality... 

It used to be private thing... Maybe thing that you could talk about with your doctor, family... 

At some point people will start to blame blacks, gays, vaccinated or unvaccinated and everyone but government for their misery... 

[Human10]

4 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

There you go again, accusing me of something I do not do.

 

I'm beginning to get the feeling you intentionally make misleading statements to confuse or divert.

 

You've done it twice now.

 

 

I think the same thing of those who have fallen for the 'Jews run the world' conspiracy psyop.

 

It discredits the conspiracy field as much as the Flat Earth theory. Its a simplistic view of the world. It creates hate and its peddled by foreign powers seeking to undermine our Western culture.

 

Your a tool of foreign governments seeking to destroy western culture.

 

Edit.

 

And for the record, I do not believe the Covid vaccine contained a kill switch which was to be activated by 5G and kill millions of people and instigated by Bill Gates.

 

That crap is pure fantasy for conspiracists who have lost touch with reality.

 

These things can work independently... It's not conspiracy.   https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2021/690012/EPRS_STU(2021)690012_EN.pdf 

https://www.actu-environnement.com/media/pdf/news-29640-appel-scientifiques-5g.pdf

[pi3141]

2 hours ago, Human10 said:

These things can work independently... 

 

It was not my intention to derail the thread.

 

Thank you for the info but lets leave it for another thread.

[Macnamara]

10 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

There you go again, accusing me of something I do not do.

 

I'm beginning to get the feeling you intentionally make misleading statements to confuse or divert.

 

You've done it twice now.

 

I think the same thing of those who have fallen for the 'Jews run the world' conspiracy psyop.

 

It discredits the conspiracy field as much as the Flat Earth theory. Its a simplistic view of the world. It creates hate and its peddled by foreign powers seeking to undermine our Western culture.

 

Your a tool of foreign governments seeking to destroy western culture.

 

Edit.

 

And for the record, I do not believe the Covid vaccine contained a kill switch which was to be activated by 5G and kill millions of people and instigated by Bill Gates.

 

That crap is pure fantasy for conspiracists who have lost touch with reality.

 

 

Lets bring some balance back to counter balance your critical theory-esque approach by looking at history within the context of its times and the challenges that faced people at those times and in those places:

 

The following excerpts are from a book by the gay journalist Michael Pye looking at 'how the north sea made us who we are'....a book by a gay man that i read because it was recommended by a woman that i have been listening to for many years: Catherine Austin Fitts:

 

''The pull of towns, where a woman could earn more, change her job or her employer, maybe start a business of her own, was the prospect of having a household of her own in time.

Women worked in the cloth trades, of course, since Flanders was famous for cloth: but that was only the start. They were moneychanger, not just informally pushing some useful cash across to friends and neighbours but acting as bank managers. They were shipbuilders, too. They went out to run and clean houses, they formed their own hierarchy in the markets: from the ones who had their own businesses to the ones who had their own market stalls to the women who sold from a cloth spread on the ground and were relentlessly moved on. In bruges, they dominated the market for everything edible but meat; drink was another matter, but even so there was a kateline van Denille who had a wine shop. They could be sureties for the debts of people who were not their relatives, and if they were married they did not have to follow their husbands trades; a separating couple in Ghent in 1355 was reckoned able to live apart without being a burden on the town because they had been 'practising different trades and paying their own expenses.' When married women were doing business, suing or being sued, the clerks keeping the records quite often did not find the marriage worth mentioning.

Women did not go travelling as merchants so they often had the city, the hostel, the shop, the warehouse or the money business to themselves while their husbands went away; they were the constant, stable heart of business. They represented the family, and in Flemish law that meant the present reality of the married couple much more than the children who would eventually inherit......the mother could perfectly well be head of the household: in the house, in the business, in the world.''

-'The Edge of the World' by Michael Pye p253-4

Edited June 7, 2022 by Macnamara

[Macnamara]

''After the fourth lateran council of 1215, English priests worked from pastoral manuals that taught them what to teach believers, including the doctrine that marriage is a matter of consent. The woman chooses, the man chooses, and the choice must be mutual: both partners almost equal for a moment, whether the motive is a matter of love or business. This teaching was meant to go all through Christendom, but when it came to the north sea it was particularly powerful because it fitted perfectly with custom, and so with the law. In the law school at bologna the scholars learned that what made a marriage real was the consummation, but in paris and the north a marriage was already real when woman and man consented to it, although the next and essential stage was the consummation. When you see a picture of a wedding in an Anglo-French manuscript, there will be a priest because marriage is a matter of the spirit. In Italy, there will be a notary, because of the contract.

 

The differences go much deeper, so deep they may well help explain what happened to the whole economic machine around the North Sea over centuries, and why it did not happen i quite the same way in the south. They explain, among many other things, windmills and pensions.

 

A woman marrying in the south brought a dowry with her, money or goods or land. Families negotiated the amount, which had everything to do with what the woman might contribute to the marriage: how young she was, how strong, how likely to bare children. The older the woman, the more expensive the dowry, so there was every reason to marry off girls as soon as possible. Even when the marriage involved rather little money or goods or land, the dowry mattered; it was the one time in her life when a woman could expect money from her parents. If she wanted money to get her life started, she had to marry to get it; but once she was married, the dowry was all she could control herself. If she and her husband built a fortune out of a business or their land, that was his fortune, not theirs.

 

The custom in the north was different. Women had the right to inherit, so they expected money from their parents, but only when their parents died. They could come into land, sell it off or give it away, all in their own names; it was theirs. They had no financial reason to marry early, and their parents had no reason to fret over when they married. Dowries were never as common as in the south and in a prosperous city like ghent, in the late middle ages, they are hardly even mentioned.''

 

-'The Edge of the World' by Michael Pye p256

 

 

[Macnamara]

''[regarding burials...] Again there is a frontier across europe: in Italian towns, men wanted to be buried with their ancestors, with as much of a male line as they could find and if necessary some invented coats of arms. Around the North Sea, it was marriage and the children which mattered.

 

Out of that doctrine of 'marital affection', William Aungier's hope, came unexpected consequences. the custom of the north was reinforced: property was shared in marriage, not separate, and women could expect their share. Women could do business, and it was worth their while. Women could take their time choosing a husband, wait at least until they were eighteen or twenty or more likely into their mid twenties; they took responsibility for the marriage and they had a degree of equality within it. At the very least they had a negotiating position. Women and men needed the time to get together the resources to start an independent life because being an adult in Flanders meant having a household of your own; just marrying, or reaching a certain age, was not enough.''

-Pye p257

[Macnamara]

Any father has a direct interest in passing on a world that is not just safe for women but is also fulfilling.

 

Telling their daughters the modern marxist feminist perception of history that women have been slaves chained out of sight in a backroom while men made history until the 20th century when women finally burst into the light and escaped their terrible patriarchal oppressors by liberating themselves with corporate careers where they can shuffle papers around all day is not only a false version of history but an incredibly disempowering one that breeds a victimhood mentality that leads only to resentment and conflict

 

Instead they should be talking about how women have always been at the centre of matters, playing a vital role not only at the centre of the family, farm and household which is the building block of society but also involved in trade and religion and as pioneers with their menfolk

 

I don't see men or women as separate equations in competition. I see them as two halves of the same equation that have cleaved their way through history together in partnership, often playing different roles that complement each other as they played to their biological strengths to each fulfil vital roles in the process of life

 

For much of history men and women lived on the land and not in cities. Living on the land just like hunting and gathering before it required full immersion in the process from both the man and the woman in the couple as well as their children. Here's a clip of some people still living in that way (bombadil introduced me to this woman and she is incredible); you think she and her talents and efforts are not respected and appreciated by her family and community?

 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Macnamara

[pi3141]

20 hours ago, Macnamara said:

Lets bring some balance back to counter balance your critical theory-esque approach by looking at history within the context of its times and the challenges that faced people at those times and in those places:

 

The following excerpts are from a book by the gay journalist Michael Pye 

 

So after your false accusations and insults you post pages of crap from a Gay writer to somehow prove your intellectual.

[pi3141]

5 hours ago, Macnamara said:

you think she and her talents and efforts are not respected and appreciated by her family and community?

 

And there you go again, trying to frame the argument that I somehow believe some people don't respect their women.

 

Where, exactly, have I stated or indicated that?

 

This is getting tiresome, the constant unfounded back handed insults and accusations.

 

You've just spammed this thread with a whole load of crap that brings little to the discussion, you make false accusations and back handed insults.

[Macnamara]

4 hours ago, pi3141 said:

So after your false accusations and insults

 

false accusations that you are presenting a skewed version of history?

 

4 hours ago, pi3141 said:

you post pages of crap from a Gay writer to somehow prove your intellectual.

 

yes to prove your version of history is skewed

 

funny how when you post quotes that is apparently ok but when i do it that is just because i am trying to 'prove your intellectual'. Thats rank hypocrisy

 

 

[Macnamara]

4 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

And there you go again, trying to frame the argument that I somehow believe some people don't respect their women.

 

no i'm saying that people pushing a marxist feminist perception of history are implying that women have not held a respected place throughout history

[Macnamara]

On 6/7/2022 at 8:13 AM, pi3141 said:

Your a tool of foreign governments seeking to destroy western culture.

 

insult

 

On 6/7/2022 at 8:13 AM, pi3141 said:

Edit.

 

And for the record, I do not believe the Covid vaccine contained a kill switch which was to be activated by 5G and kill millions of people and instigated by Bill Gates.

 

from memory you took the covid jabs didn't you?

 

On 6/7/2022 at 8:13 AM, pi3141 said:

That crap is pure fantasy for conspiracists who have lost touch with reality.

 

insult

[pi3141]

2 hours ago, Macnamara said:

false accusations that you are presenting a skewed version of history?

 

False accusations that I hate Christianity and somehow deplore Western society - those accusations.

 

2 hours ago, Macnamara said:

funny how when you post quotes that is apparently ok but when i do it that is just because i am trying to 'prove your intellectual'. Thats rank hypocrisy

 

You posted pages from a book detailing a short period of history compared to the well known fact that the Church and to an extent Western society and then leading into Islamic society have suppressed women for over 2000 years.

 

Plus you also posted about the Beguines, a small group in history. Your two example hardly prove that women were not thought of on as inferior broadly in the church and society for thousands of years! I quoted links to pertinent material, you spammed the thread with pages from a book rather than just giving an overview, laying out the argument and linking to the source.

 

I hardly see how your quotes compare in scope to the question. They do not go anywhere near far enough to prove your point or disprove mine.

 

2 hours ago, Macnamara said:

no i'm saying that people pushing a marxist feminist perception of history are implying that women have not held a respected place throughout history

 

Hmm. Ok. Well I don't consider myself Marxist, so I don't really like you labeling me that. However, if your view is that I have a Marxist Feminist view then there's not much I can say other than to ask exactly why you think I am a Marxist Feminist, perhaps you could quote some of my posts about it that give you that impression?

 

 

2 hours ago, Macnamara said:

insult

 

Yes, intended as such, it was in retort to your insult. Remember?

 

2 hours ago, Macnamara said:

from memory you took the covid jabs didn't you?

 

Yes I did. Do you want me to explain my position on that? I do not want to derail thread but will happily explain myself.

 

2 hours ago, Macnamara said:

insult

 

Again, yes, ok. You realize you started the insults? If you don't like being insulted back, perhaps you should refrain from insulting others? 

 

The evidence is there in the preceding posts - you've called me petulant, a hater of Christianity and someone who dislikes Western society, now your saying I'm pushing a Marxist Feminist view.

 

I attend Christian church, I like democracy as the best system we have, although it needs a few tweaks. You cannot be further wrong about me so your accusations are baseless. I doubt you have read my thread about religion etc. So I don't understand why you so quickly resort to accusations? I can only assume its to sway opinion, divert or derail the thread by getting it to descend into an argument.

 

Thats not the way I debate, this is a forum for debate, I suggest you read the Rules and Etiquette.

Edited June 8, 2022 by pi3141

[pi3141]

On 6/5/2022 at 4:32 PM, Macnamara said:

yes your perception of matters is skewed by your hatred for christianity

 

that's the mature view of history not the petulant one

 

 

I quote from Academic sources of which there are many - many sources.

 

The Philosophical Roots of Western Misogyny

Christia Mercer

 

Abstract
In this paper, I examine the arguments offered by prominent ancient philosophers (Plato and Aristotle) and medical theorists (Hippocrates and Galen) to justify the view that female bodies are imperfect or “mutilated” compared to male bodies from which it is supposed to follow that women are morally inferior to men. These arguments rendered men superior to women and justified the need for women to subjugate themselves to their procreative powers and to the wisdom of their superiors. Western sexism and misogyny has its roots here. It is unsettling to witness the ease with which a few men writing millennia ago laid the groundwork for centuries of sexism and depressing to realize that many of our contemporaries embrace the residue of these ancient ideas. But it is important for us to understand how these sexist attitudes arose, how they maintained themselves, and how utterly contingent they are.

 

Link - https://www.jstor.org/stable/26927955

 

 

Misogyny in the Western Philosophical Tradition

 

About this book
The Devil's gateway' (Tertullian); 'Big children their whole life long' (Schopenhauer); 'The misbegotten male' (Aquinas). Such understandings of women are shocking, not least because they come from the great minds responsible for the formation of the western intellectual tradition. In this collection, the roots of philosophical misogyny are explored and exposed. At times disturbing, at times funny, this anthology comprises a variety of texts. Lesser-known authors such as Otto Weininger and Oswald Spengler are placed alongside well-known pieces from Plato, The Malleus Maleficarum , Schopenhauer and Nietzsche. As such, this is an important addition to the collection of those interested in exploring the relationship between women and society, women and the academy.

 

Link - https://link.springer.com/book/10.1057/9780230212800#about-book-content

 

 

Now you imply my view, sustained by academic research and accepted historical accuracy, is a petulant and immature view.

 

Prove it.

 

(and dispense with the insults and assumptions - go with what you can actually prove and actually know)

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by pi3141

[Macnamara]

22 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

False accusations that I hate Christianity and somehow deplore Western society - those accusations.

 

well your comments elsewhere about christianity have not exactly been favourable have they? You posted in a thread yesterday saying that it is baal worship and part of the same 'beast' as freemasonry so....

 

I didn't dispute you on your point though because i am aware of the various gnostic take son christianity but it certainly seems to be the case that it is under attack in our modern times. Is that as some might say because the age of pisces is coming to an end or is it because christianity places God above man which then gives all people god given rights whereas the sabbateans want to place themselves above the rest of humanity and to do that they must first get God out of the way

 

22 hours ago, pi3141 said:

You posted pages from a book detailing a short period of history compared to the well known fact that the Church and to an extent Western society and then leading into Islamic society have suppressed women for over 2000 years.

 

but the 'church' has not been a monolithic thing. how many times does this need to be pointed out to you?

 

I also showed through those posts that there was a north/south divide in europe and that culturally women had different rights depending on what side of that she was. But re the roman catholic church we have to consider a few things which is that various factions fought over it with their own views about how things should be done

 

In recent times people like mel gibsons dad have even decried the current pope and claim that there was a freemasonic takeover of the church.

 

So really instead of listening to carefully selected voices in history perhaps a more accurate view of european culture is to look at the realities on the ground and those are what my posts gave you

 

22 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Plus you also posted about the Beguines, a small group in history. Your two example hardly prove that women were not thought of on as inferior broadly in the church and society for thousands of years! I quoted links to pertinent material, you spammed the thread with pages from a book rather than just giving an overview, laying out the argument and linking to the source.

 

I showed that women were able to be literate, trade and build businesses.

 

To me to discuss how women weren't the exact equals of men in a time in history when there was a very real threat of banditry if you travelled by land and piracy if you travelled by sea is absurd which is why i was saying that you need to look at history in context. The world was a dangerous place and men were biologically better equipped to face those dangers whilst women were better biologically equipped to birth and breastfeed children so it made sense that the men were the travelling journeymen and merchants whilst women managed the farm, household or business

 

It makes perfect sense when you aren't trying to create a conflict for the sake of it

 

22 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Hmm. Ok. Well I don't consider myself Marxist, so I don't really like you labeling me that. However, if your view is that I have a Marxist Feminist view then there's not much I can say other than to ask exactly why you think I am a Marxist Feminist, perhaps you could quote some of my posts about it that give you that impression?

 

What i'm talking about is this creation of a perception of women not being equal in a modern sense by applying those same standards to an out of context time when people faced a different set of challenges. Its not an honest appraisal and is basically just playing politics with history to make some sort of facile political point

 

22 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Yes, intended as such, it was in retort to your insult. Remember?

 

then stop acting so damn indignant!

 

22 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Yes I did. Do you want me to explain my position on that? I do not want to derail thread but will happily explain myself.

 

yes basically you took the jabs because you don't have trust in the judgement of people like me. Well that's your choice but it will more than likely cost you

 

22 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Again, yes, ok. You realize you started the insults? If you don't like being insulted back, perhaps you should refrain from insulting others? 

 

grow up and stop your petty point scoring. I'm not playing a game here. I'm trying to prevent terrible things from happening in the world and all you care about is making purile arguments. You and me are not even close to being in the same place.

 

22 hours ago, pi3141 said:

The evidence is there in the preceding posts - you've called me petulant, a hater of Christianity and someone who dislikes Western society, now your saying I'm pushing a Marxist Feminist view.

 

I attend Christian church,

 

i thought you said your were a quaker?

 

22 hours ago, pi3141 said:

I like democracy as the best system we have, although it needs a few tweaks. You cannot be further wrong about me so your accusations are baseless. I doubt you have read my thread about religion etc. So I don't understand why you so quickly resort to accusations? I can only assume its to sway opinion, divert or derail the thread by getting it to descend into an argument.

 

Thats not the way I debate, this is a forum for debate, I suggest you read the Rules and Etiquette.

 

you think all the generations of students brainwashed by critical theory realise that they have been brainwashed? No they don't. They just become the useful idiots of the sabbateans pissing all over their own culture whilst never offering anything constructive

Edited June 9, 2022 by Macnamara

[Macnamara]

11 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Now you imply my view, sustained by academic research and accepted historical accuracy, is a petulant and immature view.

 

'academic research'?

 

had it occurred to you that the academic arena is now little more than a vehicle for the very politically correct mindset that i am cautioning you against and that it is being completely moulded towards the very goal of tearing down western society through critical theory which is to say constant attacks whilst offering no constructive solutions to any problems raised?

 

Of course there are problems. There are problems with everything. If you turn up the microscope on anything you will find flaws

 

But the real question is who is it that is trying to entrain you and western youth into this constant negativity towards your own culture?

 

Have women and men done exactly the same things in history? No of course not because they are biologically different and as a result have played different roles. Its only in a very recent service economy that anything has changed but even our service economy is a lie because someone somewhere still has to manufacture things and that means that when the work is heavy the men will tend towards that whilst where the work is dexterous women will tend towards that and that is exactly what you would find if you took any of your modern consumer items and then traced them back to source to find out how they were made

 

just because all of this is hidden to you now because manufacturing goes on abroad doesn't mean that men and women are now all doing exactly the same things. They are not. You just live in an artificial bubble in the west detached from the reality of most people around the world

 

Well i'm not detached from that reality. I still work with my hands

Edited June 9, 2022 by Macnamara

[pi3141]

38 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

i thought you said your were a quaker?

 

No, I recomended quaker, I believe they have a better understanding of Christs teachings than most other churches and of course they are Christian. 

 

I also attend Unitarian and Spiritualist churches, again both Christian.

 

I read and study the Bible, I am buying second hand copies of the Anchor Bible series, its expensive but more so new, and I use free linux software called Bibletime which has every version of the English Bible going back to middle English as well as Hebrew and Greek and of course the Lexicons and dictionary's to go with it.

 

Its not professional but I'm not a professional researcher, its a hobby and interest.

 

And you say I hate Christianity?

[pi3141]

I don't hate Christianity, I abhor most organized religions and I feel sorry for the poor souls being duped into worshiping the wrong God.

 

Christians are sun worshiping pagans who don't know it. Their faith is being abused.

[pi3141]

I used the word Christ, not because I believe the myth but because I get fed up with writing 'the one we call Christ' or 'Jesus THE Christ' or 'The Christ Jesus'

 

As most people don't seem to get it anyway and I slip into the Christian terminology.

 

Just to be clear.

[Macnamara]

4 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

No, I recomended quaker, I believe they have a better understanding of Christs teachings than most other churches and of course they are Christian. 

 

I also attend Unitarian and Spiritualist churches, again both Christian.

 

I read and study the Bible, I am buying second hand copies of the Anchor Bible series, its expensive but more so new, and I use free linux software called Bibletime which has every version of the English Bible going back to middle English as well as Hebrew and Greek and of course the Lexicons and dictionary's to go with it.

 

Its not professional but I'm not a professional researcher, its a hobby and interest.

 

And you say I hate Christianity?

 

I have a book by robert graves who teamed up with a jewish scholar to look at what they perceive as what existed before the greek translations which is to say an oral aramaic through looking at roman and jewish sources to try and piece together what they call 'the nazarene gospel restored'.

 

Cost me a pretty penny and its a weighty tome so its quite a commitment but i intend to give it a bash at some point.

 

You mentioned in that other thread about christianity coming out of paganism and certainly the astrological aspects of it are explored in 'the devils pulpit' but we know that constantine who shaped the christianity that was then pushed onto the greek-roman empire was a member of the sol invictus cult.

 

So things have gone through a number of processes and have perhaps been given more of a european slant. In effect europe took christianity and then ran with it