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The electric combustion engine


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I had this basic idea for a new engine. Basically it combines the power of electricity with the combustion engine and an alternator to recharge the batteries. Basically if you look at the sterling engine design it uses heat to create enough pressure to move the piston. So the idea is to create an electric high element within the piston where the spark plug is that heats up to very high temperature. Now whether this will work or not is unknown because I have no capability to build this type of engine at least with my current resources. I just thought it might work and wanted to share it. 

 

The big question I have is whether it would still require a form of fuel or gas to move the piston or whether the heated air would be enough to build the pressure. I don't know. 

 

What do you think? 

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This same concept could be used for electric steam engine. You heat up an element using electricity and then pour water on to it to generate steam which is used to turn a turbine which generates electricity for the batteries that power the heating element. If the output from the alternator is greater than the required power to heat the element it would be over unity loop. If that is impossible due to laws of thermodynamics then would need to supplement the engine with solar panels or charging off the grid. 

 

The question is whether it would be more efficient to heat elements use pressure to turn the wheels than it would be to use a traditional electric engine. 

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2 hours ago, SimonTV said:

The question is whether it would be more efficient to heat elements use pressure to turn the wheels than it would be to use a traditional electric engine. 

 

Modern (fully) electric vehicles don't have engines though, basically just giant motors that drive the wheels.

 

As the motors are powered directly by electricity, there's no need for any combustion.

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38 minutes ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

Modern (fully) electric vehicles don't have engines though, basically just giant motors that drive the wheels.

 

As the motors are powered directly by electricity, there's no need for any combustion.

 

Exactly, the question is whether this is more or less efficient than a direct electric motor. 

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Posted (edited)

If the vehicle can charge itself, then it would only be parts that need replacing over time like the batteries and the heating elements. 

 

The thinking is that it will use less energy to heat some elements than it would to move a train or vehicle with an electric motor. While the power generated from the pressure in the piston is enough to charge the batteries and keep them topped up. It would be a complete loop. 

Edited by SimonTV
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7 minutes ago, SimonTV said:

 

Exactly, the question is whether this is more or less efficient than a direct electric motor. 

 

I would think a direct electric motor is more efficient, however I may be wrong. The only moving component is the motor itself, whereas a combustion engine has a variety of moving components.

 

While I don't agree with the climate change and 'green' agendas, the one thing I do like about electric vehicles is that they don't emit any pollution, in the form of exhaust fumes/gases that is. (I don't consider carbon dioxide as a 'pollutant').

 

10 minutes ago, SimonTV said:

If the vehicle can charge itself, then it would only be parts that need replacing over time like the batteries and the heating elements. 

 

Now this is something I have pondered over in the past.

 

Your typical combustion engine powered vehicle does have an alternator/generator. As well as generating electricity to recharge the battery - which is used to power the starter motor - it also powers the engine electrical systems (ignition coils, spark plugs, fuel pumps, glow plugs etc) as well as things like lighting.

 

The rotation of the engine crankshaft drives the alternator, and its own internal rotation generates electric current.

 

The question is whether a rotating electric motor that drives the wheels could also be designed to act as an alternator/generator, and therefore act as a kind of 'self-charging' system. It could theoretically increase the 'range' of an EV, especially if you're travelling on a long jouney along a motorway for example.

 

There was a video posted here in the forum a while back, it showed some Indian guys who had demonstrated this in some crude experiment. It still required someone to physically 'start' the rotation of the motor, but once it was at full speed it was self-perpetuating.

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1 minute ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

I would think a direct electric motor is more efficient, however I may be wrong. The only moving component is the motor itself, whereas a combustion engine has a variety of moving components.

 

While I don't agree with the climate change and 'green' agendas, the one thing I do like about electric vehicles is that they don't emit any pollution, in the form of exhaust fumes/gases that is. (I don't consider carbon dioxide as a 'pollutant').

 

 

Now this is something I have pondered over in the past.

 

Your typical combustion engine powered vehicle does have an alternator/generator. As well as generating electricity to recharge the battery - which is used to power the starter motor - it also powers the engine electrical systems (ignition coils, spark plugs, fuel pumps, glow plugs etc) as well as things like lighting.

 

The rotation of the engine crankshaft drives the alternator, and its own internal rotation generates electric current.

 

The question is whether a rotating electric motor that drives the wheels could also be designed to act as an alternator/generator, and therefore act as a kind of 'self-charging' system. It could theoretically increase the 'range' of an EV, especially if you're travelling on a long jouney along a motorway for example.

 

There was a video posted here in the forum a while back, it showed some Indian guys who had demonstrated this in some crude experiment. It still required someone to physically 'start' the rotation of the motor, but once it was at full speed it was self-perpetuating.

 

On the electric steam engine example the water tank would need topping up but I think if the flywheel is large enough it could charge the batteries at a greater rate than the electricity require to bring the water tank to boiling point to generate the steam. 

 

On the electric combustion engine, it would using hot air to move the pistons so the only pollutant would be hot air. I am not sure if that would even work because I am not a mechanic or engineer or electrician, just thought the piston is using the fuel to generate heat and the heat is moving the piston, why can't we generate that heat with an electric element instead?

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35 minutes ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

I would think a direct electric motor is more efficient, however I may be wrong. The only moving component is the motor itself, whereas a combustion engine has a variety of moving components.

 

While I don't agree with the climate change and 'green' agendas, the one thing I do like about electric vehicles is that they don't emit any pollution, in the form of exhaust fumes/gases that is. (I don't consider carbon dioxide as a 'pollutant').

 

 

Now this is something I have pondered over in the past.

 

Your typical combustion engine powered vehicle does have an alternator/generator. As well as generating electricity to recharge the battery - which is used to power the starter motor - it also powers the engine electrical systems (ignition coils, spark plugs, fuel pumps, glow plugs etc) as well as things like lighting.

 

The rotation of the engine crankshaft drives the alternator, and its own internal rotation generates electric current.

 

The question is whether a rotating electric motor that drives the wheels could also be designed to act as an alternator/generator, and therefore act as a kind of 'self-charging' system. It could theoretically increase the 'range' of an EV, especially if you're travelling on a long jouney along a motorway for example.

 

There was a video posted here in the forum a while back, it showed some Indian guys who had demonstrated this in some crude experiment. It still required someone to physically 'start' the rotation of the motor, but once it was at full speed it was self-perpetuating.

 

Sailboats that are setup in parallel hybrid electric engine can generate power when the boat is sailing by turning the propeller in to a power generation device. When the motor is using petrol (or gas in the us) to run the engine that is also generating power back to the battery bank. The same power can be used to turn the electric motor which turns the propeller directly. 

 

In my examples I am using electricity concentrate in to a heating element which creates a pressure and kinetic energy to generate the power that turns the propeller or wheels and at the same time an alternator. 

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27 minutes ago, SimonTV said:

On the electric steam engine example the water tank would need topping up but I think if the flywheel is large enough it could charge the batteries at a greater rate than the electricity require to bring the water tank to boiling point to generate the steam. 

 

On the electric combustion engine, it would using hot air to move the pistons so the only pollutant would be hot air. I am not sure if that would even work because I am not a mechanic or engineer or electrician, just thought the piston is using the fuel to generate heat and the heat is moving the piston, why can't we generate that heat with an electric element instead?

 

I'm no mechanic or engineer myself either, but its good to discuss and theorise such things.

 

I suppose what needs to be considered is energy requirements and power output. In both your examples, energy (electricity) is required in order to produce power, so you would need your combustion engine to produce far more power compared to the energy input, in order to be more efficient than just providing energy directly to an electric motor.

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3 minutes ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

I'm no mechanic or engineer myself either, but its good to discuss and theorise such things.

 

I suppose what needs to be considered is energy requirements and power output. In both your examples, energy (electricity) is required in order to produce power, so you would need your combustion engine to produce far more power compared to the energy input, in order to be more efficient than just providing energy directly to an electric motor.

 

Yes, definitely, someone needs to create real life examples of this idea and experiment with different size containers and fly wheels and battery sizes, until they come to a configuration that enables the output from the kinetic energy to be greater than the input required to heat the elements. 

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1 hour ago, Grumpy Owl said:

There was a video posted here in the forum a while back, it showed some Indian guys who had demonstrated this in some crude experiment. It still required someone to physically 'start' the rotation of the motor, but once it was at full speed it was self-perpetuating.

 

Found it!

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

electro / magnetic piston motor.

Simple thought experiment

straight 12 cylinder engine format.

Using magnets instead of fuel & positioned via the cam, low friction bearings and opposing magnetic pistons.

Removal of friction and compression leaving only opposing force of magnets!

 

 

method.

After cranking, as piston reaches tdc, cam lowers magnet from the array toward piston providing force to complete cycle.

1 complete cam rotation = 12 magnetic pistons completing the cycle.

 

alternator could be used to power coil magnets switched on via cam mechanism as an alternative.

 

Viable but efficiency diluted by friction!

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 4/5/2022 at 4:05 PM, zarkov said:

electro / magnetic piston motor.

Simple thought experiment

straight 12 cylinder engine format.

Using magnets instead of fuel & positioned via the cam, low friction bearings and opposing magnetic pistons.

Removal of friction and compression leaving only opposing force of magnets!

 

 

method.

After cranking, as piston reaches tdc, cam lowers magnet from the array toward piston providing force to complete cycle.

1 complete cam rotation = 12 magnetic pistons completing the cycle.

 

alternator could be used to power coil magnets switched on via cam mechanism as an alternative.

 

Viable but efficiency diluted by friction!

 

 

 

 

I don't think a magnets force would be enough to move an engine that much. If it was an electro magnet that was linked to batteries that might have more force to move it. 

 

Could do the electro magnet piston engine 

 

Electromagnets have some advantages over permanent magnets. For example:

they can be turned on and off
the strength of the magnetic field can be varied

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Bare in mind there is no requirement for compression as no explosion takes place, no requirement for conventional cylinder merely guides/runners for piston travel.

With magnets aligned on OH cam and on the substitute piston heads with the magnets arranged for repulsion. 12 inline sets would give 30 degree rotation on the crankshaft.

There are some powerful neodymium magnets around of different shape/types - would be great to have time to experiment!

No reason why a combination of earth and coil magnets couldn't be used either as you say offer greater control and variable power offering greater control as you say.

If the earth magnets were of sufficient strength and resistance minimal the net gain from magnets would/could provide over unity hypothetically.

 

When I get a chance I'll do a drawing to see if I can make any sense LOL

 

Also came across magnetic switch videos like this which shows that magnets can be controlled to some extent similarly to a coil.

 

 

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On 3/13/2022 at 11:26 AM, SimonTV said:

Basically if you look at the sterling engine design it uses heat to create enough pressure to move the piston

 

Basically, yes you're right but you have to factor in the role of the flywheel, without that you have no energy to capture, in essence the piston does indeed capture the energy for the flywheel to store the energy when it is needed, otherwise you have chaos, without a potential difference you have no energy, without the flow of energy you can not transform/capture the energy into useful work.

 

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