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The Underworld


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  • Is there an underworld ?
  • How do we get there ?
  • Where exactly is it ?

 

These are the questions I'll try to answer on this thread.

 

When Pytheas went on a circumpolar voyage in 350 BC, he discovered Thule, a place beyond the north star on the celestial map of his time. While fanciful medieval maps featured serpents, magical mountains and hybrid creatures, even scientific depictions of the poles, such as Gerard Mercator’s 16th-century map of the Arctic, details an infinite northbound place forming a giant whirlpool with a magnetic black rock at its centre, populated by iceberg leviathans and “polar pygmies”.

 

2120889572_aunderworld.jpg.ef45f7dfb60e88b329b54402cf6321af.jpg

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, alexa said:
  • Is there an underworld ?
  • How do we get there ?
  • Where exactly is it ?

 

These are the questions I'll try to answer on this thread.

 

When Pytheas went on a circumpolar voyage in 350 BC, he discovered Thule, a place beyond the north star on the celestial map of his time. While fanciful medieval maps featured serpents, magical mountains and hybrid creatures, even scientific depictions of the poles, such as Gerard Mercator’s 16th-century map of the Arctic, details an infinite northbound place forming a giant whirlpool with a magnetic black rock at its centre, populated by iceberg leviathans and “polar pygmies”.

 

2120889572_aunderworld.jpg.ef45f7dfb60e88b329b54402cf6321af.jpg

 

 

 

 

Well you have certainly answered your three questions in an eloquent, comprehensive and concise manner that we have all become accustomed to, sure it's not an FE map I seem to remember it or am I just having a de ja veux episode

Edited by peter
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40 minutes ago, peter said:

Well you have certainly answered your three questions in an eloquent, comprehensive and concise manner that we have all become accustomed to, sure it's not an FE map I seem to remember it or am I just having a de ja veux episode

 

No it's not a FE map, it is a map which shows the entrance to the underworld. the map of the underworld is thus: Just click on the map.......

 

homann-map-cockaigne-1720.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by alexa
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3 hours ago, alexa said:

 

No it's not a FE map, it is a map which shows the entrance to the underworld. the map of the underworld is thus: Just click on the map.......

 

homann-map-cockaigne-1720.jpg

 

 

 

That's a different map to the one you posted ,very sneaky

Romans 3-4

Let God be found true, but every man a liar;

Edited by peter
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5 hours ago, peter said:

That's a different map to the one you posted ,very sneaky

Romans 3-4

Let God be found true, but every man a liar;

 

No I haven't, the first map I posted was a Mercator's map showing the entrance to the underworld and the second map above is one of the underworld it's self. :classic_rolleyes:

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25 minutes ago, peter said:

how do you know that the maps are true and correct and not bogus

 

Just look at the  intricacies of this Map & if you click on it for a closer look it even shows you the names of the different country's starting with Jerusalem at the top to Tartarus at the bottom which may lead to South Pole.

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Thule

 

Thule Air Base - Wikipedia
 

Thule Air Base 

 

The Greek explorer Pytheas of the Greek city of Massalia (now Marseille, France) is the first to have written of Thule, after his travels between 330 and 320 BC. Pytheas mentioned going to Thule in his now lost works...... How convenient for them :classic_rolleyes:

 

Pytheas of Massilia tells us that Thule, the most northerly of the Britannic Islands, is farthest north,

 

Pytheas saying that he traversed the whole of Britain on foot, giving the island a circumference of forty thousand stadia, and telling us also about Thule, those regions in which there was no longer any proper land nor sea nor air, but a sort of mixture of all three of the consistency of a jellyfish in which one can neither walk nor sail, holding everything together, so to speak. (Err not sure abut this) :classic_unsure: 

But.......

In AD 77, Pliny the Elder published his Natural History in which he also cites Pytheas' claim (in Book II, Chapter 75) that Thule is a six-day sail north of Britain.

Then, when discussing the islands around Britain, he writes: "The farthest of all, which are known and spoke of, is Thule; in which there be no nights at all, as we have declared, about mid-summer, namely when the Sun passes through the sign Cancer; and contrariwise no days in mid-winter: and each of these times they suppose, do last six months, all day, or all night."

Finally, in refining the island's location, he places it along the most northerly parallel of those he describes: "Last of all is the Scythian parallel, from the Rhiphean hills into Thule: wherein (as we said) it is day and night continually by turns (for six months).

 

By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named Night,
On a black throne reigns upright.
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule –
From a wild weird clime, that lieth, sublime,
Out of Space – out of Time.

 

 

Edited by alexa
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https://historydaily.org/the-mythical-land-of-thule-birthplace-of-the-nazis

 

Thule and the Nazis

After World War I, a strange organization called the Thule Society formed in Munich. The members of this group, which many historians claim was an occult group, believed that the Aryan race of people originally came from Thule. They not only believed that the mythical land was a real place, but they thought that the original inhabitants of Thule were superhumans with supernatural powers and psychic abilities. They also believed that they possessed extraordinary technological skills.

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44 minutes ago, alexa said:

https://historydaily.org/the-mythical-land-of-thule-birthplace-of-the-nazis

 

Thule and the Nazis

After World War I, a strange organization called the Thule Society formed in Munich. The members of this group, which many historians claim was an occult group, believed that the Aryan race of people originally came from Thule. They not only believed that the mythical land was a real place, but they thought that the original inhabitants of Thule were superhumans with supernatural powers and psychic abilities. They also believed that they possessed extraordinary technological skills.

People believe lots of things but it doesn't make them factual

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  • 3 months later...
On 2/15/2022 at 9:14 AM, alexa said:

 Jerusalem at the top to Tartarus at the bottom which may lead to South Pole.

 

Do you know what tarturus is?

 

I know the Christians translate it as Hell but that is hugely incorrect.

 

In ancient Egypt, when a person died, their body was taken to the burial location the Egyptians had set aside.

 

When the people arrived with the deceased they were questioned by 3 priests - was they a good person? Did they sin?

 

If the priests judged the deceased as a good person, the body was put into a boat and the ferryman ferried the dead body to the Holy ground across the river to a beautiful burial site where they were buried with all the honours.

 

If the priests judged the deceased as a bad person, the body was unceremoniously dumped in a ditch.

 

That ditch was called Tarturus.

 

Once again the Christians have twisted reality into myth - 

 

The Judgement after death

The ferryman to take you to paradise

If your judged to be bad you burn forever.

 

I'm afraid your Christian belief in Hell is a myth, has no basis scripture and for you to believe in it, is an offence to God.

 

The words mistranslated into Hell are - 

 

Gehenna

Tartarus

Sheol

Death

 

Jesus said 'you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of DEATH shall not prevail against it'

 

You Christians have changed the words of your savior, Jesus, to support your misguided beliefs in the Anti-God doctrine of Hell and Eternal punishment.

 

To my mind, thats blasphemy.

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31 minutes ago, alexa said:

You forgot Hades!

 

Thats mostly mistranslated from Sheol.

Otherwise its mistranslated from either - Pit, Death or Earth, Land.

Edited by pi3141
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In some Bibles Jesus says - 'the gates of Hell shall not prevail' while in other versions he says 'the gates of Hades shall not prevail'

 

Both are wrong - the translators have put words into Jesus' mouth that he did not say.

 

Thats dishonest, possibly a mistake but I suspect its an outright lie to support their false beliefs.

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3 hours ago, pi3141 said:

In some Bibles Jesus says - 'the gates of Hell shall not prevail' while in other versions he says 'the gates of Hades shall not prevail'

 

Both are wrong - the translators have put words into Jesus' mouth that he did not say.

 

Thats dishonest, possibly a mistake but I suspect its an outright lie to support their false beliefs.

 

I suppose it depends on what Bible you read, I always read the KJV & sometimes the NIV.

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1 hour ago, alexa said:

 

I suppose it depends on what Bible you read, I always read the KJV & sometimes the NIV.

 

Yes it does, I favour the Anchor Bible series but at Church on Sunday I was reccomended the 'New English Translation' as a new, more accurate translation.

 

I have a free copy of it in my Bible study software but I don't think its the same as the paid for version. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/14/2022 at 9:22 AM, pi3141 said:

I'm afraid your Christian belief in Hell is a myth, has no basis scripture and for you to believe in it, is an offence to God.

 

One major and understandable reason why many people are turned off by Christianity is that its holy book explicitly teaches an afterlife of eternal conscious torment for unbelievers. How it is Christians are able to worship such a monstrous, schizophrenic deity as the one they profess to love is beyond all human(e) comprehension.

 

Christ spoke more of Hell (Gehenna) than he did of heaven. This Gehenna was not in reference to a land waste area, as some 'annihilationists' of some pseudo-Christian sects apologetically teach. When in the Gospels we read of Christ having harrowed hell, the context is pretty clear that a garbage disposal site is not what is being referred to. Christ descends to this place in search of a soul, not a piece of incinerated litter.

 

Although it's true that the Catholic doctrine of purgatory is unsupported in scripture (as are several Catholic teachings) and that other religions besides Christianity (including Buddhism and Taoism) speak of a hellish hereafter, this does not make the biblical references to Hell 'pagan' in the sense of their being untrue. (Many things that are/were pagan, are considered godly in scripture; temples of worship, as just one example.)

 

Granted, there are a few non-canonical works that have been responsible for many of our cultural concepts of Hell (Dante's The Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost being the two most influential of these), whereas the Bible says very little about the exact environment and details of this realm of the damned (located in the abyss of the earth?) other than what it does quite unequivocally.

 

In the book of Matthew alone, we find Christ speaking of Hell in several passages (5:22; 5:29; 10:28, etc). A demonic teaching? Such is what a minority of so-called Christians who hold to several heterodoxical tenets believe, despite what Christ himself explicitly taught. These ones point to verses in the Old Testament that has God denouncing the heathen practice of sacrificing children to Moloch/Baal as evidence of what He must think of such inflicting of pain on humans, yet the reason why Yahweh, being a jealous god, condemned this practice had more if everything to do with the sin of idolatry; namely, that these were idolatrous burnt offerings made to pagan gods.

 

Many near-death experiencers report having witnessed a glimpse of this gloomy afterlife realm as have those in earlier centuries upon their deathbed (as documented in the fascinating book Dying Testimonies Of Saved and Unsaved by S.B. Shaw). One cannot simply say, then, that Hell is merely a religious mechanism by which to control people, as some quickly and mindlessly dismiss this as being the case, when numerous and various people, many of whom nonreligious, claim to have experienced glimpses of Hell for themselves. As well, I suspect many choose not to worship the biblical god for this very reason, unafraid they are of living in true love.

 

Some Bible readers go through theological loops in order to try and make sense of what the scriptures state in plain language, in their attempts at interpreting the New Testament teaching of Hell in euphemistic terms. Where the scriptures speak of torment this, so they say, refers to a condition of being in prison-like chains and not to actual torture. (Still, their own interpretation, assumes then an afterlife of consciousness, thus contradicting their otherwise held-to doctrines of annihilationism and soul-sleep.)

 

Perhaps the one Gospel passage there's no getting around is the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man (Luke 16:19-30). Oh, but the whitewashers say, this is merely a parable and not to be taken literally. Yet every parable Jesus uses involves things that actually exist outside of the parable, in real life. However, for the sake of argument, say even if this parable is the sole exception to this, why, of all the innumerable settings to choose from so as to teach his disciples a lesson, would Jesus have specifically chosen something not only fanciful (something that in and of itself is odd and uncharacteristic of him) but utterly sadistic as well, even if only a parable?

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1 hour ago, Macnamara said:

The underworld is not an external place. It is an internal motif of the psyche

 

Forget trying to find a tunnel into the centre of the world and concern yourself more with your own internal processes

 

I can agree with you but not prove it because I've not died yet and don't know what comes after. However states of mind can certainly by 'up' and 'down'. 

 

However there is a kind of logic that if the ancients believed the Gods lived in the sky and on mountain tops, then their opposites the demons would live underground. They probably knew that it gets hotter the deeper underground you go, and that the underground is associated with earthquakes, sulphurous thermal springs and lava in volcanoes. Hence hellfire and brimstone :( 

Edited by Campion
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5 hours ago, The All Eye said:

When the ancients spoke about the "underworld" I believe they were referencing a person's level of wisdom.  When secret societies, or secret teachers took on new students, the student had to emerge from the underworld by gaining knowledge and wisdom.

 

Yes I've heard that too, in the ancient world there were underground initiations into mystery schools where the applicant would go underground for a few days and lay down as if dead in the dark then emerge into the light as a symbolic rebirth. The Isis-Osiris religion is one source of the mythology.  This is probably what gave rise to the Christian idea of Jesus dying and being reborn too. But there was much secrecy around it for sure and this type of thing may well still happen in secret societies today. 

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There are creatures that not only survive but thrive in harsh, torrid environments most inhospitable to man (as with those aquatic life forms that inhabit the Marianas Trench, home to volcanic temperatures) and according to science the lower one goes below the oceanic crust the hotter it gets, which would seem to suggest that no fleshly being would be able to live for very long inside the earth. Not unless, of course, Jules Verne was onto something when he penned Journey to the Center of the Earth (the insipid 1959 film version of which was a torturous experience in and of itself); a story that depicts Earth's interior as not only quite habitable for humans but near paradisaical to boot.

 

Interestingly, Hades was the name of a god of the ancient Greeks, and quite possibly the very ruler whom Plato believed reigned from within the center of the Earth.

 

If there is a netherworld inhabited by 'detrimental robots' or 'crypto-terrestrials' of some kind, that they would be observed on occasion emerging from the watery depths in craft we label USOs/UFOs seems a more realistic scenario than 'visitors' from 'outer space,' some of whom have, curiously, expressed concerns regarding man's nuclear weapons capability; messages of warning made all the more explainable if these beings were from here as opposed to elsewhere.

 

Then again, the only subterranean inhabitants on Earth may be the Fallen Ones (those evil spirits that spawned the Nephilim) spoken of in Jude 6, said to reside in Tartarus, literally a dark pit (far beneath Hades, as the ancient Greek Homer told it) and according to scripture designed specifically for these fallen ones -- a place not to be confused with Gehenna, or Sheol; Sheol being the realm or state of the dead, where it certainly seems human consciousness survives, as is more than just suggested in the biblical account of King Saul and the Witch of Endor (recorded at 1. Samuel chapter 28).

 

Postscript: One simply cannot enter into a discussion of the possible existence of an underworld without inevitably discussing the matter of Hell. 

 

We humans simply cannot wrap our heads around the idea of the God of the Bible condoning endless torture, when we ourselves know this to be unspeakably evil and psychopathic. And so we have certain sectarians on the fringes of Christendom who project their own human values onto those teachings of Christ that conflict with their own consciences and sense of morality, despite what the inspired canonical texts state in plain, undiluted Greek. Although these ones read into the Word what they choose to, I at least understand these God-fearing religionists more than I do those bona fide mainline Christians who read what the Bible says of Hell and, believing it to be a place as real as many New Agers believe heaven to be, continue to go on confessing to worshipping their Lord. How can this be? I think this can only be done via a conscious or unwitting suppression of their humanity and a blocking from their minds a concept that, unless their being torture-condoning sub-humans themselves, should it be brought to full awareness for even a second would make them feel as pitiful, shameless impostors. For how else can a Christian go on claiming to love He who allows Hell to exist when no human in his right mind would ever condone such a place himself? Paradoxically... and yet I respect those Christian ministers of Protestant faith who refuse to water down the Word by allowing human emotion to get in the way of their dutiful preaching. I do not refer to the Bible-thumping fundamentalists, but to those mild and meek and admirable souls who -- like David Pawson, who has written a few books on the subject and whose excellent sermon on Hell can be found online -- tell it like it is and who remarkably do so without ever concluding their homilies via a complete renunciation of their faith. 

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