Roger Sruton explains why some people find "classes who are to blame"

[RobSS]

Many people act like the political left, only approaching the status quo with negativity, which is why I've often said that those on the right and the left wing of politics are often both sides of the same coin.

 

I was watching an interview in which Roger Scruton talked about the characteristics of people who reside on the left of politics, and in passing, he really illustrated, very well, why it's better to fight things you don't like by demonstrating the power of good.

 

This also applies to people who attack the left and things like Marxism because people who attack what they hate run the risk of becoming what they hate, or at least becoming something similar to what they hate because they're always "labouring against the negative", and have nothing to replace it with. People like this actually contribute to destroying culture and end up finding "classes who are to blame", like "the Jews", or whoever it might be... and people like this never get out of that negative way of thinking. Scruton says, "the purely negative approach to the status quo is simply going to perpetuate this negativity, and has done":

 

Roger Scruton talking, from 3'10":

 

"I think there's an explanation of this it's some what Hegel calls "the labour of the negative", right, that the the initial instinct on the left is that "things  are wrong", and they must be rectified. They can only be rectified, however, by the seizure of power, and so we're going to seize power in order to rectify them, but once you've got the power the negative is still there in your heart because it's driven you all along...  you know that's the thing that has inspired you.

 

So you set about destroying things... punishing people... you find classes who are to blame.... you know "the Jews", the bourgeoisie... whoever it might be, and you don't get out of that negative structure. That's what I felt very strongly in 1968, you know that, okay, of course, there are things that are wrong in France, but there are also things that are beautiful and right, and you've got to go through this and come back and rescue those things which is much more important than destroying a few obstacles along the way.

 

Blake was interesting... he says "the hand of vengeance found the bed to which the purple tyrant fled. The iron hand crushed the head and came a tyrant in its stead", and that tends to be a pattern that we see again and again."

 

[...]

 

"So this is part of the problem, but again it's still this fundamental problem for instance I mean one of the things you talk about in "Fools, frauds and firebrands" is the idea of power being the way in which everything is articulated, and that the critique is about power.

 

I mean Foucault is a good example of somebody who just saw everything in terms of power, but there's definitely truth embodied in that, and I think that's why it's so seductive for so many people. I mean we have to deal with with the fact that so many people are seduced by this because they experience this... especially marginalized and disenfranchised people."

 

[...]

 

"I ask the question... what power is advancing behind that. You then disappear from the picture and also what you've said disappears from the picture... I'm not no longer engaging with you... I to thou at all... because without the concept of truth, there is no real engagement between people. All I'm seeing is the power that's speaking through you, and you can look at the whole of culture in that way, which is essentially what the post-modern curriculum is..."

 

Roger Scruton talking, from 10'18":

 

"I think you're right they have perhaps neglected those critiques, but you know as I was saying earlier, the purely negative approach to the status quo is simply going to perpetuate this negativity, and has done.

 

The typical conservative, in my reading of events, is someone who looks around himself and he finds things that he loves, and he thinks, well those things are threatened... they're vulnerable... I've got to protect them, and it's not often that you find, on the left, somebody who looks around and finds things that he loves. It's always something that's gone wrong, something that is even hateful, and you've got to mobilize against it.

 

If you've lost any sense that actually. the world is lovable and that there are things therefore to be rescued in it, you have actually lost the sense of why there is such a thing as a community, in the first place, and that I think is one of the things that I felt very strongly, throughout my life that there  really are wonderful things that we've  inherited."

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by RobSS

[Macnamara]

What roger is talking about is people on the left pursuing what he calls a 'negative' approach which is to say the jewish, marxist frankfurt school approach of 'critical theory' which is essentially just relentlessly criticising a nation and society without ever looking at any positives or any potential solutions to those problems

 

yes they mention the nazis but the nazis were collectivists and that's why prof sutton lumped them in with the bolsheviks and the new deal in the US as all being collectivist movements that were bankrolled by what he called 'the corporate socialists' or what today we might call the 'liberal elite'. The nazis, like the bolsheviks were STATE-socialists

 

Opposed to these forces of sweeping change that are driven FROM ABOVE by super wealthy oligarchic forces are the people who, as scruton points out, look around themselves ans see many wonderful things that they love and want to conserve and nourish.

 

If we take the mass immigration issue then we can see the corporate socialists being the driving force behind mass immigration because once again they are taking a sledgehammer to society and those who want to conserve their own culture are then called 'bigots' and 'racists' by the liberal media

 

Instead of telling these people to shut up lest they become as bad as the left, it might be worth actually listening to the legitimate grievances of these people otherwise you risk simply invalidating their concerns which is deeply insulting and will more than likely illicit an anger response as they are the party who are having the injustice done to them and therefore they won't take kindly to someone telling them that by speaking out against the injustice they are suffering that they are somehow at fault

 

 

[RobSS]

12 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

What roger is talking about is people on the left pursuing what he calls a 'negative' approach which is to say the jewish, marxist frankfurt school approach of 'critical theory' which is essentially just relentlessly criticising a nation and society without ever looking at any positives or any potential solutions to those problems

 

 

I think he's saying more than what you suggest because you omitted to mention that Roger Scruton said, "you find classes who are to blame.... you know "the Jews", the bourgeoisie... whoever it might be, and you don't get out of that negative structure".

 

I don't think Roger Scruton is denying there are any problems, and I don't think he's advocating against being critical, but he is highlighting the destructive nature of "labouring against the negative". He continued, "It's always something that's gone wrong, something that is even hateful, and you've got to mobilize against it." This is what leads to finding classes to blame, and as Scruton says, "you don't get out of that negative structure". You don't get out of the culture of blame.

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by RobSS

[Macnamara]

10 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

I think he's saying more than what you suggest because you omitted to mention that Roger Scruton said, "you find classes who are to blame.... you know "the Jews", the bourgeoisie... whoever it might be, and you don't get out of that negative structure".

 

I don't think Roger Scruton is denying there are any problems, and I don't think he's advocating against being critical, but he is highlighting the destructive nature of "labouring against the negative". He continued, "It's always something that's gone wrong, something that is even hateful, and you've got to mobilize against it." This is what leads to finding classes to blame, and as Scruton says, "you don't get out of that negative structure". You don't get out of the culture of blame.

 

he's talking about revolutionary collectivists that are angry at the world and want to destroy it

 

he's not talking about people trying to conserve things

 

stop trying to twist his message to your own agenda

Edited January 20, 2022 by Macnamara

[RobSS]

2 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

he's talking about revolutionary collectivists that are angry at the world and want to destroy it

 

he's not talking about people trying to conserve things

 

stop trying to twist his message to your own agenda

 

My agenda is that there's plenty that's lovable in this world, but none of that is ever reflected in most of the posts attacking the cabal, which has the default effect of aiding the cabal's agenda. Roger Scruton isn't advocating the agenda of the whites first party or ethno-nationilam. He's a traditional conservative who likes culture. He says, "If you've lost any sense that actually, the world is lovable and that there are things therefore to be rescued in it, you have actually lost the sense of why there is such a thing as a community, in the first place, and that I think is one of the things that I felt very strongly, throughout my life that there  really are wonderful things that we've  inherited." - I don't see anything of that in those that keep bashing the Jews and immigrants.

 

[Macnamara]

4 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

My agenda is that there's plenty that's lovable in this world, but none of that is ever reflected in most of the posts attacking the cabal, which has the default effect of aiding the cabal's agenda. Roger Scruton isn't advocating the agenda of the whites first party or ethno-nationilam. He's a traditional conservative who likes culture. He says, "If you've lost any sense that actually, the world is lovable and that there are things therefore to be rescued in it, you have actually lost the sense of why there is such a thing as a community, in the first place, and that I think is one of the things that I felt very strongly, throughout my life that there  really are wonderful things that we've  inherited." - I don't see anything of that in those that keep bashing the Jews and immigrants.

 

what you are failing to see is that those looking to smash everything that scruton held dear are the ones behind mass immigration

 

when you start trying to put names to the people actually pulling those strings there is no getting around the involvement of many jews which i suggest are either marxists or if you go higher up the chain of command sabbatean, kabbalist occultists

 

That is the nuance that you seem unwilling to engage with.

 

Could scruton say that at a debate at say oxford university? Not if he ever wanted to be able to speak in public ever again he couldn't no

[Macnamara]

the borders that secure our nation are not an arbitrary thing, 'it is what defines what we are':

 

@ 3 mins 37 seconds then discusses migration after 5 minutes:

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Macnamara

[RobSS]

3 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

what you are failing to see is that those looking to smash everything that scruton held dear are the ones behind mass immigration

 

when you start trying to put names to the people actually pulling those strings there is no getting around the involvement of many jews which i suggest are either marxists or if you go higher up the chain of command sabbatean, kabbalist occultists

 

That is the nuance that you seem unwilling to engage with.

 

Could scruton say that at a debate at say oxford university? Not if he ever wanted to be able to speak in public ever again he couldn't no

 

2 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

the borders that secure our nation are not an arbitrary thing, 'it is what defines what we are':

 

@ 3 mins 37 seconds

 

 

I have addressed the nuance that you're highlighting. As I said, I'm not claiming Scruton is advocating against highlighting things that are wrong, or that people should ignore nefarious agendas, like the breaking up of trust so people have to increasingly rely on a top down forum of government that's alien to British culture, which he discussed in that video. I'm not against highlighting that agenda either, but Roger Scruton is critical of "the labour of the negative", and finding "classes who are to blame", "whoever it might be". 

 

Roger Scruton wasn't a man who laboured of the negative because he spent a lot of time demonstrating good by being an advocate of life and promoting the positive benefit of art and culture, and this is something I don't see reflected with those that only "labour on the negative", and just post about how bad  Sabbateans, certain Jews and Kabbalist occultists are, and the denigrating immigrants as a class to blame. I never see, or very rarely see people who attack immigrants and Jews, advocate a love of life, and I never see them promoting the positive benefit of art and culture. It's just a constant "labour on the negative".

 

[Macnamara]

5 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 but Roger Scruton is critical of "the labour of the negative", and finding "classes who are to blame", "whoever it might be". 

 

that's kinda like what you do on this forum isn't it rob?

 

you have zero'd in on those questioning mass immigration and selected them as your hate group/class that you want to blame

Edited January 20, 2022 by Macnamara

[RobSS]

11 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

that's kinda like what you do on this forum isn't it rob?

 

you have zero'd in on those questioning mass immigration and selected them as your hate group/class that you want to blame

 

As I said, I'm not claiming anyone shouldn't advocate against highlighting things that are wrong, or that people should ignore nefarious agendas, but I try to keep a balance between posting positive and negative things.

 

Those who labour on the negative and just attack the cabal, what positive things do they post that celebrates culture, art and creativity?

 

[Macnamara]

5 minutes ago, RobSS said:

Those who labour on the negative and just attack the cabal, what positive things do they post that celebrates culture, art and creativity?

 

are you singling out individuals now? or are you making a blanket statement about what you perceive to be a class of people?

Edited January 20, 2022 by Macnamara

[RobSS]

Just now, Macnamara said:

 

are you singling out individuals now? or are you making a blanket statement about what you perceive to be a class of people?

 

You keep ignoring that I keep saying that there's nothing wrong with being critical, but what you're defecting from is the balance between positive and negative, so I ask again, those who labour on the negative and just attack the cabal, what positive things do they post that celebrates culture, art and creativity?

 

[Macnamara]

3 minutes ago, RobSS said:

You keep ignoring that I keep saying that there's nothing wrong with being critical, but what you're defecting from is the balance between positive and negative, so I ask again, those who labour on the negative and just attack the cabal, what positive things do they post that celebrates culture, art and creativity?

 

and i ask again who are you speaking about?

 

are you speaking about individual posters or are you making a blanket statement that tars what you perceive to be a class of people with the same brush?

 

 

[RobSS]

Just now, Macnamara said:

 

and i ask again who are you speaking about?

 

are you speaking about individual posters or are you making a blanket statement that tars what you perceive to be a class of people with the same brush?

 

 

I'm not referring to posters here who do post positive things that celebrate culture, art and creativity. I'm talking about posters who labour on the negative and just attack the cabal, what positive things do they post that celebrates culture, art and creativity?

 

[Macnamara]

Just now, RobSS said:

I'm not referring to posters here who do post positive things that celebrate culture, art and creativity. I'm talking about posters who labour on the negative and just attack the cabal, what positive things do they post that celebrates culture, art and creativity?

 

you would have to ask them individually otherwise it just sounds like a vague swipe at anyone who, as roger scruton does, points out that the people behind the mass immigration and the EU are for a type of top-down law making that goes against our ancient common law traditions that respects individual rights

 

and the more people you flood into the country that see the top-down form of government as a good thing whilst having no tradition of even awareness of english common law the more the cabal will be able to wield top-down centralised control on the british people and that is exactly WHY they are weaponising migration: to destroy british culture and societal cohesion

 

to anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game of replacing white people this is simply COMMON SENSE

[RobSS]

8 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

you would have to ask them individually otherwise it just sounds like a vague swipe at anyone who, as roger scruton does, points out that the people behind the mass immigration and the EU are for a type of top-down law making that goes against our ancient common law traditions that respects individual rights

 

and the more people you flood into the country that see the top-down form of government as a good thing whilst having no tradition of even awareness of english common law the more the cabal will be able to wield top-down centralised control on the british people and that is exactly WHY they are weaponising migration: to destroy british culture and societal cohesion

 

to anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game of replacing white people this is simply COMMON SENSE

 

You're not acknowledging what Roger Scruton said with respect to celebrating culture, art and creativity. He said. "The purely negative approach to the status quo is simply going to perpetuate this negativity."

 

[Macnamara]

2 minutes ago, RobSS said:

You're not acknowledging what Roger Scruton said with respect to celebrating culture, art and creativity. He said. "The purely negative approach to the status quo is simply going to perpetuate this negativity."

 

so you are accusing me personally of not celebrating my own culture?

[RobSS]

Just now, Macnamara said:

 

so you are accusing me personally of not celebrating my own culture?

 

I haven't accused you of anything. I'm asking questions.

 

 

[Macnamara]

2 minutes ago, RobSS said:

I haven't accused you of anything. I'm asking questions.

 

what question are you asking?

[RobSS]

Just now, Macnamara said:

 

what question are you asking?

 

Do you post things that celebrate culture, art and creativity?

 

[Macnamara]

34 minutes ago, RobSS said:

Do you post things that celebrate culture, art and creativity?

 

yes, in fact prior to the hack muir of the pirate council had an entire thread celebrating british culture. It was lost in the hack along with over 6000 posts

Edited January 21, 2022 by Macnamara

[RobSS]

Just now, Macnamara said:

 

yes

 

What have you posted?

 

[Macnamara]

26 minutes ago, RobSS said:

What have you posted?

 

prior to the hack  muir of the pirate council had an entire thread celebrating british culture. It was lost in the hack along with over 6000 posts

 

since the hack i have posted various things around the forum but if you hoped i would hand pick them out of the 7,200 posts i've made then your are out of luck

Edited January 21, 2022 by Macnamara

[RobSS]

Just now, Macnamara said:

 

prior to the hack the pirate council had an entire thread celebrating british culture. It was lost in the hack along with over 6000 posts

 

since the hack i have posted various things around the forum but if you hoped i would hand pick them out of the 7,200 posts i've made then your are out of luck

 

Question answered, thanks for the reply.

 

[Macnamara]

1 minute ago, RobSS said:

Question answered, thanks for the reply.

 

of course to find out about those pre-hack posts you'd have to speak to the then acting chair of the pirate council: muir