The Jungle Book as an allegory for political society & the conflicts between man & nature

[Macnamara]

8 hours ago, RobSS said:

 

I thought you were going to post that quote but he didn't say all people in the world are Freemasons, but if you want to be consistent, and non-hypocritical in your claim that I am a Freemason because of your Manly P. Hall quote, then you would have to argue that you are a mason too.

 

But you're real purpose is to just troll this thread with nonsense and meaningless quotes.

 

The point i was intending to make was that according to Manley p hall the entire universe is a lodge and therefore a person doesn't need to be a signed up member of a lodge to be a freemason

 

A person could essentially be an acting freemason for example they could perform their own rituals. Crowley for example was initiated in a non official lodge eg his AA system encourages individual work albeit with a single mentor to oversee a persons progress

 

So there is the occult initiation aspect but there is also the belief aspect and agenda aspect where a person could be pursuing the goals of freemasonry without being a signed up member of the lodge

 

If you look into the milner group aka the roundtable group they designed their masonic organisation to have two levels: the inner circle of conspirators such as milner and the rothschilds who were the 'elect' and understood on a conscious level what they were doing and why they were doing it and then there was an outer level of 'associated helpers'.

 

So from a conspiracy point of view (which is my interest in all of these things and which i assume most other people are interested in too seeing as this is a conspiracy forum) we can then try and assess which level kipling was. Was he simply helping the elect but without seeing the grand overscheme and knowing where it would all lead or was he a fully signed up initiate who fully understood the carnage that the roundtable were trying to unleash on the world?

 

I can't claim to know the definitive answer to that rob and to be honest i would need to go to the source material such as kipling's writings to try and establish that. Of course i have seen kordas cartoon but i have not read the jungle book.

 

But when we discuss these kind of works that have been written by occultists and which may very well contain concealed occult themes i think it is valuable to look at the wider context within which they were created and that IS an area that i do have some knowledge and perspective and that is the area that I have tried to bring something to the table here

 

Does that sound fair and reasonable?

Edited January 25, 2022 by Macnamara

[Macnamara]

7 hours ago, skitzorat said:

just give up, he's obviously getting some weird kick out of his 'tricks'.

PS. I do thoroughly enjoy your arguments and stuff though. Cheers

 

what i'm interested in this for is that i am aware of the role of freemasonry through the quatuor coronati lodge in creating this entire 'new age' movement

 

Around that same time we saw theosophy spring up, the quatuor coronati lodge and also the hermetic order of the golden dawn and out of this we see crowley popularising these things. This has been written about by some authors as the 'aquarian conspiracy'

 

So when we consider these popular culture creations that have been created by freemasons and then turned into movies by freemasons we need to consider if they are part of this new age conspiracy

 

The rothschilds worked with a guy maurice strong who was pushing the climate agenda aspect for them and he created an entire new age mishmash town in a ranch in the US, that was  a collection of these religions

 

'well what's the problem with that?' some might ask and i am accutely aware that part of the rothschilds agenda is to drive a dagger into the heart of christianity and into christendom and the hypothesis i am working on is that the new age religion is their creation to supplant christianity and to inject a new set of social mores into christendom

 

That is what i'm exploring here and as rob keeps posting up stuff from these freemasons it is providing an opportunity for the forum to explore that whole rabbit hole

[bobb]

4 hours ago, Macnamara said:

'well what's the problem with that?' some might ask and i am accutely aware that part of the rothschilds agenda is to drive a dagger into the heart of christianity and into christendom and the hypothesis i am working on is that the new age religion is their creation to supplant christianity and to inject a new set of social mores into christendom

 

Indeed the 'New Age Movement' was according to Jordan Maxwell a Masonic attempt at creating a new religion for the Aquarian age, and my understanding of this was to ensure that they still had control and sway over the masses, but if I interpret the meaning of Aquarius with a new ruler Uranus and not Saturn to me at least it means that systems of control will always break down, and it is this they are so desperately trying to avoid to keep themselves in the kind of god like existence that they enjoy so much, but unfortunately for them they are just going to have to get their hands dirty like the rest of us pigs in shit, but it also begs the question that if Aquarius has a new ruler then how many times have we been here before, I personally am hoping, earnestly praying that this time is different indeed!

[Macnamara]

3 minutes ago, bobb said:

Indeed the 'New Age Movement' was according to Jordan Maxwell a Masonic attempt at creating a new religion for the Aquarian age, and my understanding of this was to ensure that they still had control and sway over the masses, but if I interpret the meaning of Aquarius with a new ruler Uranus and not Saturn to me at least it means that systems of control will always break down, and it is this they are so desperately trying to avoid to keep themselves in the kind of god like existence that they enjoy so much, but unfortunately for them they are just going to have to get their hands dirty like the rest of us pigs in shit, but it also begs the question that if Aquarius has a new ruler then how many times have we been here before, I personally am hoping, earnestly praying that this time is different indeed!

 

Part of breaking down a victim of mind control is the removal of core religious convictions. One of the key illuminati goals is to get people to believe that God is evil and has forsaken them because once a person is in that mindset then they become receptive to satanic influence

 

This process doesn't just work on the individual level but is used against entire populations. The illuminati know that any group of people with a cohesive identity built around notions of nationhood, ethnicity or religious beliefs can present a united front against them and for this reason they seek to breakdown and destroy all of those things

[RobSS]

4 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 

The point i was intending to make was that according to Manley p hall the entire universe is a lodge and therefore a person doesn't need to be a signed up member of a lodge to be a freemason

 

A person could essentially be an acting freemason for example they could perform their own rituals. Crowley for example was initiated in a non official lodge eg his AA system encourages individual work albeit with a single mentor to oversee a persons progress

 

So there is the occult initiation aspect but there is also the belief aspect and agenda aspect where a person could be pursuing the goals of freemasonry without being a signed up member of the lodge

 

 

I still think you're reading too much in the quote and your effort is superfluous anyone because it's already blatantly obvious you don't need to be a Freemason to be involved in the occult and believe in the Great Architect of the Universe and the NWO, etc.

 

What Manly P. Hall actually meant by his quote regarding the cosmos being a Lodge is that the Kabbalah underpins all life and creation, and this is understood through the Divine art of astrology. Without the Kabbalah you wouldn't be alive, so we owe our existence and survival to it's reality. It's the engine which drives things and is related to the two Trees of the Garden of Eden.

 

The Kabbala is also integral to the structure of Freemasonry, which is why it's such an enduring and powerful organisation. However, the Kabbalah also contains the fundamental secrets of the material world and the human condition. Those that learn its secrets can use it for nefarious purposes and that's the problem I have with Freemasonry. They take ideas from this mirror-reflected-world and make them doctrine and dogma, and in so doing, everything gets inverted and reversed, so black becomes white, up becomes down, and good becomes bad, which is why Jesus Christ accused the religious leaders of his day of being from their father devil because they placed the interpretations of man above the open exoteric words of the Torah.

 

[Macnamara]

1 minute ago, RobSS said:

 

I still think you're reading too much in the quote and your effort is superfluous anyone because it's already blatantly obvious you don't need to be a Freemason to be involved in the occult and believe in the Great Architect of the Universe and the NWO, etc.

 

What Manly P. Hall actually meant by his quote regarding the cosmos being a Lodge is that the Kabbalah underpins all life and creation, and this is understood through the Divine art of astrology. Without the Kabbalah you wouldn't be alive, so we owe our existence and survival to it's reality. It's the engine which drives things and is related to the two Trees of the Garden of Eden.

 

The Kabbala is also integral to the structure of Freemasonry, which is why it's such an enduring and powerful organisation. However, the Kabbalah also contains the fundamental secrets of the material world and the human condition. Those that learn its secrets can use it for nefarious purposes and that's the problem I have with Freemasonry. They take ideas from this mirror-reflected-world and make them doctrine and dogma, and in so doing, everything gets inverted and reversed, so black becomes white, up becomes down, and good becomes bad, which is why Jesus Christ accused the religious leaders of his day of being from their father devil because they placed the interpretations of man above the open exoteric words of the Torah.

 

 

do you see the freemasons as in the lineage of nimrod?

 

do you see kabbalah as having been revealed to the freemasons by the angel raziel?

 

do you see raziel as a fallen angel or as one of Gods agents?

[RobSS]

4 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 

That is what i'm exploring here and as rob keeps posting up stuff from these freemasons it is providing an opportunity for the forum to explore that whole rabbit hole

 

 

No, what you're doing is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[bobb]

Just now, Macnamara said:

do you see the freemasons as in the lineage of nimrod?

 

That observation I think is very pertinent indeed, how much these things are entwined so to speak will be a book well worth reading.

[RobSS]

2 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

do you see the freemasons as in the lineage of nimrod?

 

do you see kabbalah as having been revealed to the freemasons by the angel raziel?

 

do you see raziel as a fallen angel or as one of Gods agents?

 

Of course Nimrod is in the line of Cain. They are all part of the lineage of the Builders of civilisation and the secrets of the Kabbalah were originally revealed by none other Satan the devil.

 

[Macnamara]

1 minute ago, RobSS said:

No, what you're doing is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

If you are talking about the book then you have to consider kipling

 

if you are looking at the cartoon then you have to consider walt disney, korda and perhaps kipling too

 

I see all of them as involved in the conspiracy in one way or another

[RobSS]

13 minutes ago, bobb said:

 

Indeed the 'New Age Movement' was according to Jordan Maxwell a Masonic attempt at creating a new religion for the Aquarian age, and my understanding of this was to ensure that they still had control and sway over the masses, but if I interpret the meaning of Aquarius with a new ruler Uranus and not Saturn to me at least it means that systems of control will always break down, and it is this they are so desperately trying to avoid to keep themselves in the kind of god like existence that they enjoy so much, but unfortunately for them they are just going to have to get their hands dirty like the rest of us pigs in shit, but it also begs the question that if Aquarius has a new ruler then how many times have we been here before, I personally am hoping, earnestly praying that this time is different indeed!

 

The New Age movement is a trap for all those that want the benefits of Freemasonry but without all the padding and restrictive structure.

 

[Macnamara]

Just now, RobSS said:

Of course Nimrod is in the line of Cain. They are all part of the lineage of the Builders of civilisation and the secrets of the Kabbalah were originally revealed by none other Satan the devil.

 

Ok so in your world view the freemasons are the descendents of nimrod the great rebel against God and they were given the kabbalah by satan?

 

Manley p hall says raziel in the secret teachings of all ages but not everyone agrees that raziel is a fallen angel. Some say raziel is good so what is your take on that?

[RobSS]

1 minute ago, Macnamara said:

 

If you are talking about the book then you have to consider kipling

 

if you are looking at the cartoon then you have to consider walt disney, korda and perhaps kipling too

 

I see all of them as involved in the conspiracy in one way or another

 

I'm talking about Mowgli and what Mowgli represents. That's what you're throwing away. You're whole thrust is actually anti-art, anti-culture anti-creativity and anti-life.

 

[Macnamara]

Just now, RobSS said:

The New Age movement is a trap for all those that want the benefits of Freemasonry but without all the padding and restrictive structure.

 

Its really about taking europeans away from christianity whilst creating a new outer order of navel gazing passive people who will then be ruled over by a kabbalist, sabbatean elite

[bobb]

1 minute ago, RobSS said:

secrets of the Kabbalah were originally revealed by none other Satan the devil

 

I take a different view here to say it like this:

the Ka ba la were originally CONCEALED by none other Satan the devil

[RobSS]

Just now, Macnamara said:

 

Its really about taking europeans away from christianity whilst creating a new outer order of navel gazing passive people who will then be ruled over by a kabbalist, sabbatean elite

 

Your comment is too vague and general to mean anything specific and substantial.

 

[RobSS]

2 minutes ago, bobb said:

 

I take a different view here to say it like this:

the Ka ba la were originally CONCEALED by none other Satan the devil

 

It was revealed to those who were prepared to worship the devil, and then they concealed the secrets with the aim of creating a pyramid scheme because if a group has a secret, it becomes a great temptation that can be used to draw more cult members, but the price of that is one's soul. If they keep and perpetuate secrets, they have to forfeit their soul.

 

[Macnamara]

6 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

I'm talking about Mowgli and what Mowgli represents. That's what you're throwing away. You're whole thrust is actually anti-art, anti-culture anti-creativity and anti-life.

 

i know a thing or two about interpreting artwork

 

There are different ways to interprete art. often with art there is a level of ambiguity and when the artist is asked what they meant  they will say that they want to leave it upto the experiencer to make of it what they will

 

So that is one form of interpretation which is to say your own subjective interpretation. For example i shared a clip of a guy giving what he said was a 'jungian' interpretation which is that the cartoon represents the process of graduating out of childhood but would jung have said the same thing? We can only speculate

 

Then there is the interpretation of the author themselves and that is more what i'm interested in because as i explained above i look at all of these things through the lens of the conspiracy and within the context of the conspiracy

 

There are several reasons i do this.  Firstly i want to know what's really going on in the world and secondly with the conspiracy now being very advanced and arguably in its final stages it has very real impacts on my and everyone elses lives and knowing what is going on is actually becoming a matter of life and death eg with the covid jabs

 

Then there is the spiritual aspect to all of this and christians would argue that your eternal soul is on the line so this is potentially a high stakes game!

[Macnamara]

11 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

I'm talking about Mowgli and what Mowgli represents. That's what you're throwing away. You're whole thrust is actually anti-art, anti-culture anti-creativity and anti-life.

 

when does art stop being art and start being propaganda?

[Macnamara]

10 minutes ago, RobSS said:

Your comment is too vague and general to mean anything specific and substantial.

 

not when viewed alongside everything else i have said to you in the course of our discussions ranging across a number of threads now

 

there REALLY is a conspiracy rob and what i'm talking about is what it is trying to achieve

[RobSS]

4 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

i know a thing or two about interpreting artwork

 

There are different ways to interprete art. often with art there is a level of ambiguity and when the artist is asked what they meant  they will say that they want to leave it upto the experiencer to make of it what they will

 

So that is one form of interpretation which is to say your own subjective interpretation. For example i shared a clip of a guy giving what he said was a 'jungian' interpretation which is that the cartoon represents the process of graduating out of childhood but would jung have said the same thing? We can only speculate

 

Then there is the interpretation of the author themselves and that is more what i'm interested in because as i explained above i look at all of these things through the lens of the conspiracy and within the context of the conspiracy

 

There are several reasons i do this.  Firstly i want to know what's really going on in the world and secondly with the conspiracy now being very advanced and arguably in its final stages it has very real impacts on my and everyone elses lives and knowing what is going on is actually becoming a matter of life and death eg with the covid jabs

 

Then there is the spiritual aspect to all of this and christians would argue that your eternal soul is on the line so this is potentially a high stakes game!

 

I understand what you're saying but the structure of what Kipling shared, in his novel, "The Jungle Book", shares patterns and truths from the Kabbalah. The elements of his story are therefore also recognisable in religion and theology. I agree that art is about personal interpretation but how can interpretations be given, if the work is dismissed even before any interpretation can start. That's why I'm now talking about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

"Art saves the spirit of religion by recognizing the figurative value of the mythic symbols which the former would have us believe in their literal sense." (Richard Wagner)

 

 

 

[RobSS]

7 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

not when viewed alongside everything else i have said to you in the course of our discussions ranging across a number of threads now

 

there REALLY is a conspiracy rob and what i'm talking about is what it is trying to achieve

 

What you've written now is even more general and vague!

 

[RobSS]

9 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

when does art stop being art and start being propaganda?

 

What propaganda?

 

[Macnamara]

9 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

I understand what you're saying but the structure of what Kipling shared, in his novel, "The Jungle Book", shares patterns and truths from the Kabbalah.

 

but that's my point!

 

So with this in mind, when we consider kiplings general behaviour (judge a tree by its fruit) and his propagandising on the behalf of the roundtable group, should we not then be cautious about what he is trying to sow into the public consciousness?

[RobSS]

Just now, Macnamara said:

 

but that's my point!

 

So with this in mind, when we consider kiplings general behaviour (judge a tree by its fruit) and his propagandising on the behalf of the roundtable group, should we not then be cautious about what he is trying to sow into the public consciousness?

 

But the Kabbalah is not bad or evil in and of itself. What can be evil is the intention behind its use. Without the Kabbalah, none of use would be alive. It's the engine that moves life forwards and supports life and creativity.