The Jungle Book as an allegory for political society & the conflicts between man & nature

[Macnamara]

17 hours ago, RobSS said:

The Everyman stories aren't rituals of the type that Templars and Freemasons perform. Like Hansel and Gretel, they're just stories that give hints to the reader what's really important in life.

 

i'm not sure that they are the same as the likes of hansel and gretel

 

The rituals performed by the freemasons/templars are designed to act upon the persons subconscious. They arrange the lodge paraphenalia so as to match in with the sphere of tree that they are trying to initiate to and the people present focus their mental energy on that in order to build a sympathetic bridge

 

If stories like jungle book are replicating things on an archetypal level then they ARE designed to speak to the subconscious of the viewer and therefore they could represent a covert initiation of sorts. This would certainly explain freemasons obsession with controlling popular culture

[RobSS]

21 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

i'm not sure that they are the same as the likes of hansel and gretel

 

The rituals performed by the freemasons/templars are designed to act upon the persons subconscious. They arrange the lodge paraphenalia so as to match in with the sphere of tree that they are trying to initiate to and the people present focus their mental energy on that in order to build a sympathetic bridge

 

If stories like jungle book are replicating things on an archetypal level then they ARE designed to speak to the subconscious of the viewer and therefore they could represent a covert initiation of sorts. This would certainly explain freemasons obsession with controlling popular culture

 

The story of The Jungle Book isn't a ritual and bears no resemblance to any ritual, and the overall basic plot structure of The Jungle Book is the same as Hansel and Gretel, but told in a different way.  It's the 'Hero's Journey'. The overall basic plot structure is also the same as the Bible.

 

[Macnamara]

1 hour ago, RobSS said:

The story of The Jungle Book isn't a ritual and bears no resemblance to any ritual, and the overall basic plot structure of The Jungle Book is the same as Hansel and Gretel, but told in a different way.  It's the 'Hero's Journey'. The overall basic plot structure is also the same as the Bible.

 

well freemasonry claims to be a system of morality

 

But if its primary focus is on morality then why is so much bad stuff coming out of it? Why is there so much deviancy?

 

Could it be that when they talk about 'morality' they are really talking about their own version of morality that suits their over-scheme? So when we see an enthusiastic freemason like kipling pushing childrens stories that are aimed at the minds of children are they in fact trying to instil their system of morality and is that done in an unconscious way where the viewer isn't even aware of how they are being impacted on the subconscious level?

 

That is the purpose of the freemasonic ritual. The initiate is not told what the ritual is supposed to represent. It's not a conscious process. The ritual is using symbols to speak to the unconscious mind and i wonder when we talk about the archetypes in freemasonic inspired art if they are attempting to communicate with the unconscious mind of the viewer

 

I'm just throwing that out there and in order to really support or drop that theory i would have to read the source material

[RobSS]

42 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

well freemasonry claims to be a system of morality

 

But if its primary focus is on morality then why is so much bad stuff coming out of it? Why is there so much deviancy?

 

Could it be that when they talk about 'morality' they are really talking about their own version of morality that suits their over-scheme? So when we see an enthusiastic freemason like kipling pushing childrens stories that are aimed at the minds of children are they in fact trying to instil their system of morality and is that done in an unconscious way where the viewer isn't even aware of how they are being impacted on the subconscious level?

 

That is the purpose of the freemasonic ritual. The initiate is not told what the ritual is supposed to represent. It's not a conscious process. The ritual is using symbols to speak to the unconscious mind and i wonder when we talk about the archetypes in freemasonic inspired art if they are attempting to communicate with the unconscious mind of the viewer

 

I'm just throwing that out there and in order to really support or drop that theory i would have to read the source material

 

I'd rather spend time thinking about Mowgli, and the 'Hero's Journey', than Kipling. Kipling's also long been dead. Not many have left a better legacy. Same with Beethoven, who was also a Freemason. He went deaf towards the end of his life, but still carried on writing beautiful music. I've never seen anything terrible written about him, and he devoted his whole life to music. He certainly had a better reputation than Wagner, and unlike Beethoven, Wagner wasn't a Freemason, so there may be good and bad apples in every barrel. If Rothschild or Rockefeller had written "The Jungle Book, I'd definitely be in agreement with you. Kipling may be in the 'grey' part of the spectrum, and certainly a lot more so then Beethoven, but I don't think he was at the black end of the scale like Rothschild.

 

I haven't found anything immoral in The Jungle Book. Mowgli resists being seduced by the Serpent, Kaa - so he gets a tick and full marks for that...

 

Mowgli sets fire to Shere Khan's tale with the fire of truth, sending him packing - for that, two ticks, full marks and a gold star...

 

And he falls in love when he sees a pretty woman fetching water - a tick and three gold stars.

 

Bagheera, the black panther, is a similar character to Gurnemnz, in Wagner's Parsifal... a mysterious character, full of wisdom that deftly guides the Indian orphan boy through the jungle, looking after his well-being... sometimes in the foreground, but if not he's nearly always somewhere in the background, and then there's Baloo the bear, an instantly likeable character, who enjoys the bare necessities of life, etc. I think it's a wonderful story.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by RobSS

[Macnamara]

10 minutes ago, RobSS said:

I'd rather spend time thinking about Mowgli, and the 'Hero's Journey', than Kipling.

 

i have switched to talking about the story now and what its purpose might be in terms of its impact on the unconscious mind

 

Perhaps  in freemasonry the individual supplants god and becomes their own divinity whereas christians would say that you must go through jesus.

 

you say you are a christian and you have quoted the bible at me so do you think that christianity and freemasonry are compatible?

Edited January 26, 2022 by Macnamara

[RobSS]

28 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

i have switched to talking about the story now and what its purpose might be in terms of its impact on the unconscious mind

 

Perhaps  in freemasonry the individual supplants god and becomes their own divinity whereas christians would say that you must go through jesus.

 

you say you are a christian and you have quoted the bible at me so do you think that christianity and freemasonry are compatible?

 

I enjoy your line of thought when it comes to asking questions about faith and spiritual motives. Not many people are able to ask the right questions so well. 

 

You made a valid point one I often consider. It's the same issue with all fairy tales, which is why I'd never regard the stories as a substitute for the primary 'Hero's Journey', which of course, for Christians, is Jesus Christ.

 

Like you say, the stories could easily be seen in the absence of Christ, in a humanist light, which is how I think Roger Scruton viewed Parsifal. All kinds of people, right across the spectrum, have found it interesting... Christians, humanists, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, occultists, Pagans and even Satanists, have been drawn to the drama and the music. It's a complex work.

 

The more one looks into Christian belief, the  more one finds that there's a very fine line between what's Christian and Pagan, especially with subjects such as the tree of life, its association with the Kabbalah and the words of Christ, who said, let him with an ear eat the fruit of the tree of life, and there's also the question of how these mystical tales originated, which I'm still happy to explore further and as deeply as possible. In addition to that, Christ said to be 'wise as serpents', which also presents a lot of spiritual challenges.

 

Regarding the Fool character, I can't find a better characterisation of the Paraclete in any other work. At the end of the day, Christ's message was that he wanted man to find freedom through becoming his own hero. He didn't want a man or a woman to be a slave to his or her 9 to 5 job, and the Babylon system.

 

Fairy tales inspire children and even grown-ups to broaden horizons, but I agree, a Christian should not lose sight that it's Christ who's Redeemer.  In being so detached from the mainstream, and in going one's own way, there is a potential for insanity, but faith in Christ is a great help.

 

[Macnamara]

48 minutes ago, RobSS said:

I enjoy your line of thought when it comes to asking questions about faith and spiritual motives. Not many people are able to ask the right questions so well. 

 

thanks

 

48 minutes ago, RobSS said:

I'm still happy to explore further and as deeply as possible. In addition to that, Christ said to be 'wise as serpents', which also presents a lot of spiritual challenges.

 

so if we take jesus's arrival as 2000 years ago and we turn the clock back even further then we find older examples of the heros journey and we also find the cauldron of plenty within celtic culture where the cauldron is seen as the wellspring of inspiration and genius

 

48 minutes ago, RobSS said:

Regarding the Fool character, I can't find a better characterisation of the Paraclete in any other work.

 

some might see the holy ghost as the sacred feminine aspect.

 

48 minutes ago, RobSS said:

At the end of the day, Christ's message was that he wanted man to find freedom through becoming his own hero. He didn't want a man or a woman to be a slave to his or her 9 to 5 job, and the Babylon system.

 

We seek to become the hero in our own life

 

48 minutes ago, RobSS said:

Fairy tales inspire children and even grown-ups to broaden horizons, but I agree, a Christian should not lose sight that it's Christ who's Redeemer.  In being so detached from the mainstream, and in going one's own way, there is a potential for insanity, but faith in Christ is a great help.

 

I have this concern about the modern age. I see sabbatean-jews mass producing movies and tv programmes and they are often entertaining and seductive but if our ancestors were guided by their dreams and the content of the collective unconscious and if visual culture from a tv screen can impact in our dreams then does it form a kind of pollution or clutter of sorts into the personal unconscious and if so what are the ramifications of that in terms of our ability to cultivate that connection to the unconscious

 

You see i see the sabbateans as supremacists and in order for them to become supreme they must lay everyone else low and that means that sabbateans become sabbateurs of others which is why the water is poisoned, why the air is not clean, why the currency is constantly devalued, why endocrine disrupting chemicals fill our biosphere and why division is deliberately sown.

 

This makes me very cautious about why they would be motivated to produce so much visual culture whether it is movies, cartoons of pop music videos because i wonder if they are seeking to shut out our consciousness from becoming more integrated and as kipling was a freemason who no doubt had a deep knowledge of symbols and the unconscious it makes me wary

[RobSS]

5 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

so if we take jesus's arrival as 2000 years ago and we turn the clock back even further then we find older examples of the heros journey and we also find the cauldron of plenty within celtic culture where the cauldron is seen as the wellspring of inspiration and genius

 

 

The Hero's Journey appears to be blue-printed on human consciousness.

 

5 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

some might see the holy ghost as the sacred feminine aspect.

 

Wagner saw Kundry as a personification of the Holy Grail.

 

5 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

I have this concern about the modern age. I see sabbatean-jews mass producing movies and tv programmes and they are often entertaining and seductive but if our ancestors were guided by their dreams and the content of the collective unconscious and if visual culture from a tv screen can impact in our dreams then does it form a kind of pollution or clutter of sorts into the personal unconscious and if so what are the ramifications of that in terms of our ability to cultivate that connection to the unconscious

 

You see i see the sabbateans as supremacists and in order for them to become supreme they must lay everyone else low and that means that sabbateans become sabbateurs of others which is why the water is poisoned, why the air is not clean, why the currency is constantly devalued, why endocrine disrupting chemicals fill our biosphere and why division is deliberately sown.

 

This makes me very cautious about why they would be motivated to produce so much visual culture whether it is movies, cartoons of pop music videos because i wonder if they are seeking to shut out our consciousness from becoming more integrated and as kipling was a freemason who no doubt had a deep knowledge of symbols and the unconscious it makes me wary

 

 

Discernment is the key and it's one that always requires refinement. The best way to get the most out of these stories is via the written word. Books that films are based on, are often much better and contain greater insights.

 

[RobSS]

If the Hero's Journey is a blue-print at the core of human conscious - that could make it synonymous with the Tree of Life, and it would explain why Christ encouraged people to eat the fruit from that tree.

 

Black sorcerers can use the Kabbalah (which is also the Tree of Life, but really it's the mirror image, an inversion of the truth, actually the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil) to impose a false reality over primordial natural reality, and in so doing, people forget the Hero's Journey, they forget where they are going, and they become lost, and are then easier to control and manipulate. This imposed reality is of course, the matrix.

 

"Where there is no vision, the people perish." - Proverbs 29:18

 

"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." - Romans 12:2

 

[Macnamara]

24 minutes ago, RobSS said:

Discernment is the key

 

what if i AM the one exercising discernment?

[RobSS]

2 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

what if i AM the one exercising discernment?

 

 

We have free will.

 

[Macnamara]

2 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

We have free will.

 

yes bit people of the aristotelian persuasion such as kipling like to use black magic and NLP on people who they view largely as cattle

 

this view is reflected in his politics and i suspect that korda was the same

[RobSS]

2 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

yes bit people of the aristotelian persuasion such as kipling like to use black magic and NLP on people who they view largely as cattle

 

this view is reflected in his politics and i suspect that korda was the same

 

I don't see any evidence he used black magic, but if that's what you feel, the answer is not to read or watch The Jungle Book and keep well away from it.

 

[Macnamara]

1 minute ago, RobSS said:

I don't see any evidence he used black magic,

 

that would depend on what sort of impact the movie or book is having on the subconscious and i don't think we have established that

 

1 minute ago, RobSS said:

but if that's what you feel, the answer is not to read or watch The Jungle Book and keep well away from it.

 

i don't intend to read it

 

but from a conspiracy point of view i do wonder what a de molay freemason wanted with the story written by a freemason associated with the milner group in order to get a jewish communist associated with british intelligence to make a movie about the story and all at a time when the tavistick institute is really pushing out its mind control onto the public through mass produced culture

[RobSS]

Just now, Macnamara said:

 

that would depend on what sort of impact the movie or book is having on the subconscious and i don't think we have established that

 

 

i don't intend to read it

 

but from a conspiracy point of view i do wonder what a de molay freemason wanted with the story written by a freemason associated with the milner group in order to get a jewish communist associated with british intelligence to make a movie about the story and all at a time when the tavistick institute is really pushing out its mind control onto the public through mass produced culture

 

We've already discussed this, and I suggested that may be they acted in a cynical way, and did it for creating wealth and fame, whilst at the same time informing the public in advance, and in an occult way, what the cabal are secretly doing, and in so doing they think they're pre-empting bad karma, in which case, they are playing the Shere Khan role. There are a lot of possibilities, and in that regard, I don't have a final answer.

 

[Macnamara]

3 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

We've already discussed this, and I suggested that may be they acted in a cynical way, and did it for creating wealth and fame, whilst at the same time informing the public in advance, and in an occult way, what the cabal are secretly doing, and in so doing they think they're pre-empting bad karma, in which case, they are playing the Shere Khan role. There are a lot of possibilities, and in that regard, I don't have a final answer.

 

did you read that article i posted earlier about the kordas and the role of british intelligence in hollywood working through united artists whose biggest star was charlie chaplin (communist jew) and which was run by the pedophile royal (knight templar bloodline) mountbatten?

[RobSS]

4 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

did you read that article i posted earlier about the kordas and the role of british intelligence in hollywood working through united artists whose biggest star was charlie chaplin (communist jew) and which was run by the pedophile royal (knight templar bloodline) mountbatten?

 

I did, but did I didn't see anything that implicated Korda.

 

[Macnamara]

2 minutes ago, RobSS said:

I did, but did I didn't see anything that implicated Korda.

 

The kordas were their agents. I've looked into the catastrophic SOE operations in the second world war (kordas movie was in 1942) and scores of brave agents were parachuted straight into german hands and often tortured or killed and when you dig into who was in british intelligence at that time you find it full of marxists, jews and freemasons. Some of those people went on to be embroiled in scandals like the cambridge 5 who were basically selling out the british people

Edited January 27, 2022 by Macnamara

[RobSS]

Just now, Macnamara said:

 

The kordas were their agents. I've looked into the catastrophic SOE operations in the second world war (kordas movie was in 1942) and scores of brave agents were parachuted straight into german hands and often tortured or killed and when you dig into who was in british intelligence at that time you find it full of marxists, jews and freemasons

 

Has anyone ever directly accused him of anything? If there's any real evidence, I'm sure there would at least be people, who know the subject better, speculating and there would be gossip and allegations... any of that anywhere?

 

[Macnamara]

1 minute ago, RobSS said:

 

Has anyone ever directly accused him of anything? If there's any real evidence, I'm sure there would at least be people, who know the subject better, speculating and there would be gossip and allegations... any of that anywhere?

 

The Jewish director who kick-started British film — and coordinated WWII spies

Hungarian-born Alexander Korda was a hustler, master filmmaker, and once employed Winston Churchill. He’s now the subject of a monthlong season at the British Film Institute

By Jenni Frazer 5 January 2019, 1:08 pm

LONDON — He was Britain’s first film knight, honored in 1942 for his contribution to cinema. He was the man behind films such as the moody iconic thriller “The Third Man,” starring Orson Welles, and produced and directed in the United States, Europe and Britain

 

Much of that was due to his relationship with the future British prime minister Winston Churchill, whom Korda employed as a screenwriter during the 1930s when Churchill’s political life was in the doldrums.

Colonel Claude Dansey, who had served with Churchill in the same regiment during the Boer War, introduced the two men. Dansey had become head of Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service in Rome, and the general conclusion is that Korda himself was “born to be a spy” — manipulative, duplicitous, multi-lingual, and with a taste for intrigue.

So in 1937 Dansey arranged with Korda that London Film Productions would provide cover for his agents in Europe, an arrangement which lasted throughout the war years. The secret agents were able to work in European capitals while pretending to be screenwriters or film researchers.

British intelligence may well have had a shadowy hand in Korda’s early film success; in return, he played a part in persuading America to join the war, by making a well-received “propaganda” film, “That Hamilton Woman,” said to be Churchill’s favorite film. It will also be screened during the season.

In fact, Korda’s knighthood, awarded in 1942, was as much to do with his covert activities for Dansey, Churchill, and wartime America, as it was for his work in British film. He was, indeed, a different type of movie mogul.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-jewish-director-who-kick-started-british-film-and-coordinated-wwii-spies/

[RobSS]

2 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

The Jewish director who kick-started British film — and coordinated WWII spies

Hungarian-born Alexander Korda was a hustler, master filmmaker, and once employed Winston Churchill. He’s now the subject of a monthlong season at the British Film Institute

By Jenni Frazer 5 January 2019, 1:08 pm

LONDON — He was Britain’s first film knight, honored in 1942 for his contribution to cinema. He was the man behind films such as the moody iconic thriller “The Third Man,” starring Orson Welles, and produced and directed in the United States, Europe and Britain

 

Much of that was due to his relationship with the future British prime minister Winston Churchill, whom Korda employed as a screenwriter during the 1930s when Churchill’s political life was in the doldrums.

Colonel Claude Dansey, who had served with Churchill in the same regiment during the Boer War, introduced the two men. Dansey had become head of Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service in Rome, and the general conclusion is that Korda himself was “born to be a spy” — manipulative, duplicitous, multi-lingual, and with a taste for intrigue.

So in 1937 Dansey arranged with Korda that London Film Productions would provide cover for his agents in Europe, an arrangement which lasted throughout the war years. The secret agents were able to work in European capitals while pretending to be screenwriters or film researchers.

British intelligence may well have had a shadowy hand in Korda’s early film success; in return, he played a part in persuading America to join the war, by making a well-received “propaganda” film, “That Hamilton Woman,” said to be Churchill’s favorite film. It will also be screened during the season.

In fact, Korda’s knighthood, awarded in 1942, was as much to do with his covert activities for Dansey, Churchill, and wartime America, as it was for his work in British film. He was, indeed, a different type of movie mogul.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-jewish-director-who-kick-started-british-film-and-coordinated-wwii-spies/

 

So what's the allegation, exactly? It's quite a long article. I did a search for "hustler" in the article, but the only result was in the title of the article.

 

[Macnamara]

5 minutes ago, RobSS said:

So what's the allegation, exactly? It's quite a long article. I did a search for "hustler" in the article, but the only result was in the title of the article.

 

that he was working for british intelliegence and helped drag america into the war

 

but i have added to that with a further accusation of my own which is that the tavistock institute was using popular culture to socially engineer the public

 

bare in mind that aldous huxley was also involved in these movies and of course he was a fabian insider who wrote about a 'brave new world' where people were drugged into compliance and people weren't allowed to have natural children anymore

 

i should add that it was zoltan and not alexander that directed the jungle book but they were all employed to promote 'british' ie the freemasonic crowns movies

Edited January 27, 2022 by Macnamara

[RobSS]

Just now, Macnamara said:

 

that he was working for british intelliegence and helped drag america into the war

 

but i have added to that with a further accusation of my own which is that the tavistock institute was using popular culture to socially engineer the public

 

bare in mind that aldous huxley was also involved in these movies and of course he was a fabian insider who wrote about a 'brave new world' where people were drugged into compliance and people weren't allowed to have natural children anymore

 

Then one answer would be the one I gave twice earlier, when: I suggested that may be they acted in a cynical way, and did it for creating wealth and fame, whilst at the same time informing the public in advance, and in an occult way, what the cabal are secretly doing, and in so doing they think they're pre-empting bad karma, in which case, they are playing the Shere Khan role. There are a lot of possibilities, and in that regard, I don't have a final answer.

 

 

[Macnamara]

1 minute ago, RobSS said:

Then one answer would be the one I gave twice earlier, when: I suggested that may be they acted in a cynical way, and did it for creating wealth and fame

 

no i don't think the conspirators are so dumb as to be acting only for wealth and fame

 

they are carrying out an agenda

[RobSS]

Just now, Macnamara said:

 

no i don't think the conspirators are so dumb as to be acting only for wealth and fame

 

they are carrying out an agenda

 

Which is why I also said, "whilst at the same time informing the public in advance, and in an occult way, what the cabal are secretly doing, and in so doing they think they're pre-empting bad karma, in which case, they are playing the Shere Khan role."