The Jungle Book as an allegory for political society & the conflicts between man & nature

[RobSS]

14 minutes ago, skitzorat said:

The Kabbalah is jewish mysticism end of.

 

There are a multitudes of different esoteric beliefs from ancient times and from all corners and cultures of the planet, but "Kabbalah" as it is universally known (outside Rob-world) is not "something that has always existed."

 

Rob can argue until he's black and blue in the face and co-opt that terminology to include any and all occultism/esoteric knowledge from the ancient Mid-East and include biblical fairy tales, many of which were plagiarized from more ancient Mesopotamian myths,  but it doesn't change what is factually correct.

 

Playing the usual semantic games such as

 

 

and being petulant isn't a strong way to argue your a for creating ones own interpretation of jewish mysticism in forum discussions.

 

 

LOLZ!!

 

The tree of life is a diagram used in various mystical traditions.^[1] It usually consists of 10 nodes symbolizing different archetypes and 22 lines connecting the nodes.^[2] The nodes are often arranged into three columns to represent that they belong to a common category.^[2]

 

 

It is usually referred to as the Kabbalistic tree of life in order to distinguish it from other concepts with the same name.^[1][6] In the Jewish Kabbalah, the nodes are called sephiroth.^[2] The diagram is also used by Christian Cabbala, Hermetic Qabalah and Theosophy.^[5][6][7] The diagram is believed to be derivable from the flower of life.^[3]

 

Scholars believe that the concept of a tree of life with different spheres encompassing aspects of reality traces its origins back to Assyria in the 9th century BC.^[1][6] The Assyrians also assigned values and specific numbers to their deities similar to those used by the later Jewish Kabbalah.^[1][6] The beginnings of the Jewish Kabbalah are traced back by scholars to the Medieval Age, originating in the Book of Bahir and the Book of Zohar.^[5][6]

 

I clearly never said the Tree of Life was "evil" lol I never mentioned anything to do with the trees lol talk about "false accusations"

 

 

 

Again, just because ROB decides what is the Kabbalah, despite all the historiographical evidences and sources also doesn't make it so.

 

So no, I most certainly will not just "read the Bible" instead of sourcing my information from multiple pieces of documentation and authors because I don't hold "the Bible" to be a complete and final collection, let alone trustworthy, "interpretation" of so-called "truths" or way-of-being/all divine knowledge etc.

 

 

Not need to get uppity, dear, I very purposely said "I'm not that well versed"

 

I'm refering to what I believed, again, stating I'm not that well versed, that Christianity was a "new start" with the NT and that Christians, thus, believed the "OT was fairy-tales to be used as allegories" - what I said was nothing to do with what Christ may or may not have "preached from" 

 

now whose "misinterpreting what people say"?!

 

Anyways. I'm out because Rob can't have civil conversations/discussions without being rude and petulant when someone says something counter to what ROB believes is The Truth, The Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth - so Help Us God.

 

The Tree of Life is the Kabbalah and Jesus Christ said that those with "an ear to hear" may eat its fruit, so it's not as black and white as you make out and it must be something to do with how the subject is approached. I've already said that the wrong approach is to take the teaching found in the Kabbalah and take them as truth, like the occultists do because those so-called "truths" will be inversions of the truth and white will become black, up will become down, and evil will become good. I'm not promoting that, but when you dismiss the whole thing as evil, you are dismissing what Jesus Christ said about the fruit of the Tree of Life, so you're missing something.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by RobSS

[RobSS]

8 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

I think luria was cementing supremacism into the mix and when we look at global events we can certainly see all signs pointing to a high tech centre in israel wielding huge power in the coming technocracy because the entire thing will be run by artificial intelligence

 

muir had a thread before the hack that detailed 'israels role in the technocracy' that looked at all the israeli personnel behind big tech and how many israeli statups are creating by israeli military coming out of the unit 8200 cyber warfare unit; if there is to be a moshiac that is going to make the sabbatean people the supreme people on the planet then what better force to use to do that then artificial intelligence? We can perhaps go one further and say that a force from the unseen is in fact materialising into our physical realm through the artificial intelligence

 

knowing all this and more besides as we have for many years it has been very disturbing to see people like albert bourla, the jewish scientist who created the pfizer jab, pushing the jab out onto the west. Bourla is from thessalonika in greece and that area is a hotbed of sabbateanism because of the donmeh crypto-sabbateans from turkey

 

why did the supremacist occultists want their drug into everyone and what is now going to happen now that they have managed that.

 

This is the context within which all of these things are being discussed and it is liable to make people defencive

 

You're starting to go off-topic again.

 

[RobSS]

4 minutes ago, skitzorat said:

Yeah - is this your petulance and arrogance showing again? (thats a rhetorical question, Rob.)

 

"In case it gets forgotten"

 

Who, besides yourself, would care what happened a page or so ago?! lol

 

I didn't reply because I didn't believe it worthy of anything.

 

I said - paraphrasing here (just so we're clear, Rob)

 

can you name a famous author (figure) from early 20th C who wasnt part of the establishment.

 

You said

Orwell.

 

To which I replied:

He was a total insider and as establishment as they come and gave examples.

 

To which you said.

so 

so

so

so

 

 

 

It was rather petty and I choose not to reply because I didnt want to get on that particular merry-go-round with you as it wouldn't have been in anyway constructive to the thread and just be another throttle of the forum, as per your usual antics.

 

Are you trying to "own" me by recycling this?

"incase it gets forgotten"

 

Are you trying to make it seem, and thereby me look, like I'm deliberately AVOIDING your completely well presented and sound, constructive retorts by not replying because I "can't" for some reason, or something?

 

Just curious. What other reason would you do this? force that back into the conversation to "remind" me [and other readers] of it? If I was going to reply, wouldn't I do so naturally?

 

-Perhaps I'm 

"tilting at windmills" or;

"making a mountain out of a molehill" or;

"thowing the baby out with the bathwater" or;

blah blah

 

lolz

If so, you owned me good, Rob. Kudos you.

 

What you're really saying is that you've got nothing much to say and nothing to show that Orwell was a bad person with bad motives.

 

[Macnamara]

1 minute ago, RobSS said:

You're starting to go off-topic again.

 

well doesn't that depend on whether or not jungle book represents these same initiatory steps

 

do you see kaa the python as a kundry figure? and khan as klingsor?

[RobSS]

6 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

well doesn't that depend on whether or not jungle book represents these same initiatory steps

 

do you see kaa the python as a kundry figure? and khan as klingsor?

 

Kaa is a Kundry archetype, and like Parsifal, Mowgli isn't seduced by Kaa, so Mowgli overcame his lower nature, which enables him to proceed towards becoming more awakened.

 

Shere Khan is a Klingsor archetype.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by RobSS

[Macnamara]

1 minute ago, RobSS said:

Kaa is a Kundry archetype, and like Parsifal, Mowgli isn't seduced by Kaa, so Mowgli overcame his lower nature, which enables him to proceed towards becoming fully human.

 

Shere Khan is a Klingsor archetype.

 

ka is also an egyptian word for the soul isn't it?

[RobSS]

2 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

ka is also an egyptian word for the soul isn't it?

 

It's one aspect of what they believed soul was... a vital part.

 

[skitzorat]

2 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

What you're really saying is that you've got nothing much to say and nothing to show that Orwell was a bad person with bad motives.

 

Sure Rob, that's exactly right.

You got me good.

 

Nice to know that is why you recycled this again - you sure showed me up.

I feel that burn. *ouch*

 

Does that make you feel better, sweetheart? - did you get a dopamine hit? Did your synaptic clefts get fired up with neuro-chemical transmitters like what happens to people during social media interactions?

 

Lucky you - I blew most of mine out decades ago and have never held religion as a "crutch" to fall back on - nothings coming to "save me" - hence why I'm oh so terribly nihilistic, quite naturally, you wouldnt understand because you have Trust and Faith and pure Belief.

 

But ride on, brother,  praise! Onwards Christian soldiers! Whatever floats ya boat, bro. 

 

[RobSS]

Just now, skitzorat said:

Sure Rob, that's exactly right.

You got me good.

 

Nice to know that is why you recycled this again - you sure showed me up.

I feel that burn. *ouch*

 

Does that make you feel better, sweetheart? - did you get a dopamine hit? Did your synaptic clefts get fired up with neuro-chemical transmitters like what happens to people during social media interactions?

 

Lucky you - I blew most of mine out decades ago and have never held religion as a "crutch" to fall back on - nothings coming to "save me" - hence why I'm oh so terribly nihilistic, quite naturally, you wouldnt understand because you have Trust and Faith and pure Belief.

 

But ride on, brother,  praise! Onwards Christian soldiers! Whatever floats ya boat, bro. 

 

 

The motive wasn't to show you up. I posted it again because I took the trouble to reply and you ignored it. If you hadn't posted what you did, all these feeeelings wouldn't be swirling around!

 

 

[Macnamara]

2 minutes ago, RobSS said:

It's one aspect of what they believed soul was... a vital part.

 

ok so over and over again we have freemasons outlining the initiatory process in their artwork

 

i know that freemasons are encouraged to give their views on their curriculum to their lodge brethren and i wonder if they are encouraged to render it into art. The best of which makes it into the popular consciousness

 

But i have the same issue with this that i have with psychadelics in that we are told that they will cure people and we are told that the initiatory process will make people into better people. But if it is as simple as that then why are so many people still complete arseholes after they have taken psychadelics and why are so many occultists driving forward the most malevolent of agendas?

 

Are the processes simply not being followed correctly or are they fundamentally flawed?

 

If kipling is outlining the heros journey in his work as if it is something he identified with then why on the other hand would he be the willing stooge of the rothschild cabal? Did he believe that freemasonry needed to be pushed out to ALL humans and therefore colonialism was to be supported? Is that moral behaviour?

[Macnamara]

10 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

It's one aspect of what they believed soul was... a vital part.

 

yes the vital essence and serpents are esoterically representative of rising power such as kundelini

[skitzorat]

Just now, RobSS said:

The motive wasn't to show you up. I posted it again because I took the trouble to reply and you ignored it.

I very clearly was involved in the Kaballah conversation - some pithy Rob-round-about-comment didn't come to the forefront of my "must reply" list, sorry!!!!

 

2 minutes ago, RobSS said:

If you hadn't posted what you did, all these feeeelings wouldn't be swirling around!

If you had actually READ the reply you're replying to

 

7 minutes ago, skitzorat said:

did you get a dopamine hit? Did your synaptic clefts get fired up with neuro-chemical transmitters......

Lucky you - I blew most of mine out decades ago ........ hence why I'm oh so terribly nihilistic, quite naturally,

 

 

you would know I dont have said -feeeeeeeelings swirlling around!

 

Fvck your comprehension really is pathetic.

 

[RobSS]

1 minute ago, Macnamara said:

 

ok so over and over again we have freemasons outlining the initiatory process in their artwork

 

i know that freemasons are encouraged to give their views on their curriculum to their lodge brethren and i wonder if they are encouraged to render it into art. The best of which makes it into the popular consciousness

 

But i have the same issue with this that i have with psychadelics in that we are told that they will cure people and we are told that the initiatory process will make people into better people. But if it is as simple as that then why are so many people still complete arseholes after they have taken psychadelics and why are so many occultists driving forward the most malevolent of agendas?

 

Are the processes simply not being followed correctly or are they fundamentally flawed?

 

If kipling is outlining the heros journey in his work as if it is something he identified with then why on the other hand would he be the willing stooge of the rothschild cabal? Did he believe that freemasonry needed to be pushed out to ALL humans and therefore colonialism was to be supported? Is that moral behaviour?

 

Freemasonry is a distraction. Not all these stories were written by Freemasons. Wagner wasn't a Freemason, and he even wrote it into the score that the character. Parsifal, isn't one of the Brothers, but you do mention something interesting. I agree that the initiatory experience itself doesn't amount to any panacea becayse overcoming the lower nature requires a constant conscious effort. Psychedelics can't do it for you. The overcoming has to come from within, and it's a lifetime challenge... a never ending story.

 

[Macnamara]

4 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

yes the vital essence and serpents are esoterically representative of rising power such as kundelini

 

aligning of the ego with the heart and the animal nature in order for the kundelini to rise

[RobSS]

3 minutes ago, skitzorat said:

I very clearly was involved in the Kaballah conversation - some pithy Rob-round-about-comment didn't come to the forefront of my "must reply" list, sorry!!!!

 

If you had actually READ the reply you're replying to

 

 

 

you would know I dont have said -feeeeeeeelings swirlling around!

 

Fvck your comprehension really is pathetic.

 

 

Why did you make the post in the first place if you weren't prepared to follow it though? Don't blame me for your reaction. Take self-responsibility.

 

[RobSS]

7 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

yes the vital essence and serpents are esoterically representative of rising power such as kundelini

 

Are there any ramifications in what you're saying?

 

[Macnamara]

7 minutes ago, RobSS said:

Freemasonry is a distraction. Not all these stories were written by Freemasons. Wagner wasn't a Freemason, and he even wrote it into the score that the character. Parsifal, isn't one of the Brothers,

 

ok but as i mentioned in a previous post (it might have been in another thread) the versions of the grail story that may have influenced wagner like chrietian of troyes will have grown out of templarism

 

the templars were said to be the 'guardians of the grail'. Troyes was a stronghold of the templars and it was the home of a major kabbalah school of the day run by rabbi rishi

 

So we have older celtic stories about the cauldron of plenty being reworked by templars essentially to give a medieval psycho-drama of the initiatory process

 

7 minutes ago, RobSS said:

but you do mention something interesting. I agree that the initiatory experience itself doesn't amount to any panacea becayse overcoming the lower nature requires a constant conscious effort. Psychedelics can't do it for you. The overcoming has to come from within, and it's a lifetime challenge... a never ending story.

 

agreed....there is no hollywood 'happy ever after'. There is only the tightrope

Edited January 26, 2022 by Macnamara

[RobSS]

3 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

aligning of the ego with the heart and the animal nature in order for the kundelini to rise

 

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

What's the significance of what you're saying?

 

[Macnamara]

2 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

Are there any ramifications in what you're saying?

 

yes

 

so if you take a moment to reflect on your title for this thread and then consider that the entire story may in fact simply be an allegory for freemasonic initiation and that the characters depicted within the story may just represent internal aspects of your own being

[skitzorat]

Just now, RobSS said:

Why did you make the post in the first place if you weren't prepared to follow it though?

 

5 minutes ago, skitzorat said:

I very clearly was involved in the Kaballah conversation - some pithy Rob-round-about-comment didn't come to the forefront of my "must reply" list, sorry!!!!

 

oh and btw - it was your reply to my post I deemed not worthy of a *instant* reply - and I gave my reasons, being your reply was your usual pithy and circular reasoning which throttles the threads.

 

Oh. and I'm under no obligation to reply to any ones posts!

 

Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured, he will not go unpunished. Proverbs 16:5 

 

You're not that special, Rob.

 

5 minutes ago, RobSS said:

Take self-responsibility.

Oh do get off your f'k'n high horse for once

Why don't you go eat your own words of wisdom for once - since youre ever so fond of dishing them out - choke on them.

[RobSS]

1 minute ago, Macnamara said:

 

ok but as i mentioned in a previous post (it might have been in another thread) the versions of the grail story that may have influence wagner like chrietian of troyes will have grown out of templarism

 

the templars were said to be the 'guardians of the grail'. Troyes was a stronghold of the templars and it was the home of a major kabbalah school of the day run by rabbi rishi

 

So we have older celtic stories about the cauldron of plenty being reworked by templars essentially to give a medieval psycho-drama of the initiatory process

 

The Templars though saw themselves as guardians of a grail bloodline and the divine right to rule. Their interest was power and wealth. The "holy blood, holy grail" bloodline is a travesty of what the Grail actually is.

 

1 minute ago, Macnamara said:

 

agreed....there is no hollywood 'happy ever after'. There is only the tightrope

 

There is a tightrope, but there is a promise of eventual salvation through Jesus Christ, so the more one overcomes, the skills learned should make resisting temptations easier. If that does feel like being the case, then it's a question of trying to find out why that isn't happening.

 

 

[RobSS]

11 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

yes

 

so if you take a moment to reflect on your title for this thread and then consider that the entire story may in fact simply be an allegory for freemasonic initiation and that the characters depicted within the story may just represent internal aspects of your own being

 

Wagner wasn't a Freemason and you don't need to become a Freemason to overcome animal drives, so I still don't see what Freemasonry has to do with it.

 

[RobSS]

9 minutes ago, skitzorat said:

 

 

oh and btw - it was your reply to my post I deemed not worthy of a *instant* reply - and I gave my reasons, being your reply was your usual pithy and circular reasoning which throttles the threads.

 

Oh. and I'm under no obligation to reply to any ones posts!

 

Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured, he will not go unpunished. Proverbs 16:5 

 

You're not that special, Rob.

 

Oh do get off your f'k'n high horse for once

Why don't you go eat your own words of wisdom for once - since youre ever so fond of dishing them out - choke on them.

 

I gave you a decent reply to your post, which I spent time on. I'm not the one swearing, cussing and being arrogant and rude.

 

[Macnamara]

5 minutes ago, RobSS said:

The Templars though saw themselves as guardians of a grail bloodline and the divine right to rule. Their interest was power and wealth. The "holy blood, holy grail" bloodline is a travesty of what the Grail actually is.

 

The templars were kabbalist magicians with their own initiation rituals and they are the forerunners of the freemasons. They shaped the medieval grail story to suit their initiation process

 

5 minutes ago, RobSS said:

There is a tightrope, but there is a promise of eventual salvation through Jesus Christ, so the more one overcomes, the skills learned should make resisting temptations easier. If that does feel like being the case, then it's a question of trying to find out why that isn't happening.

 

i do feel more skilled at resisting the temptations

[RobSS]

16 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

The templars were kabbalist magicians with their own initiation rituals and they are the forerunners of the freemasons. They shaped the medieval grail story to suit their initiation process

 

i do feel more skilled at resisting the temptations

 

The Everyman stories aren't rituals of the type that Templars and Freemasons perform. Like Hansel and Gretel, they're just stories that give hints to the reader what's really important in life. The type of rituals performed by secret societies don't free the soul, they only affirm a rigid dogma. Wagner took the opposite approach whereby the main protagonist has to learn for himself what it's like to overcome, without the expectation of grandiose titles and any great status within any order. Parsifal is a wanderer, a nomad, and self-dependent. Being formally initiated into a secret society and being given a degree or status label sounds great, but from a spiritual perspective, it has no spiritual value.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by RobSS