Theory of evolution

[Pinkiebee]

22 minutes ago, ink said:

 

Is not this universe a 'closed' system though?

It's rather hard to say until we see the edge or ice wall

[zarkov]

48 minutes ago, Pinkiebee said:

Perhaps if you quote the universal law it would be clearer.  I'm not sure it says what you think it says

aren't laws universal?

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by zarkov

[Ellen80]

6 minutes ago, DarianF said:

 

My daughter has the biggest crush on this dopey bastard. She hates this photo

[Pinkiebee]

Just now, zarkov said:

aren't laws universal?

 

Well they are likely to be universal in this universe which may or may not be the only one

 

But reading between the lines.  I dont think it says what you think it does  in any universe . 

 

Which means we are likely to be at cross purposes.  With your understanding not at all fitting with the explination I'm giving of why life doesnt contradict a universal law 

[DarianF]

Just now, Ellen80 said:

My daughter has the biggest crush on this dopey bastard. She hates this photo

 

LOL

[DarianF]

1 hour ago, ink said:

So first .... Proof please of enough 'Time'?

 

Okay...

 

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Pinkiebee said:

It's rather hard to say until we see the edge or ice wall

 

 

This place is a narrative .... if you consider it a 'flat earth' then I suggest that you continue on your path .... by the same 'token' .... if you consider this 'place' a globe then I suggest you continue on your path!

[DarianF]

On Speciation ( @kj35 @Morpheus @Mitochondrial Eve ):

 

 

 

[DarianF]

3 minutes ago, ink said:

 

 

This place is a narrative .... if you consider it a 'flat earth' then I suggest that you continue on your path .... by the same 'token' .... if you consider this 'place' a globe then I suggest you continue on your path!

 

Oh fuck. Not this FE bullshit again. Where's alexa when you need her?

[Pinkiebee]

1 minute ago, ink said:

 

 

This place is a narrative .... if you consider it a 'flat earth' then I suggest that you continue on your path .... by the same 'token' .... if you consider this 'place' a globe then I suggest you continue on your path!

There definitively not an ice wall round earth.  Thete way be one round the universe.  But entropy would melt it over time so every thing could fire off at any second

[DarianF]

2 minutes ago, Pinkiebee said:

There definitively not an ice wall round earth.  Thete way be one round the universe.  But entropy would melt it over time so every thing could fire off at any second

 

Want free front row seats to the comedy show of the century. Right here --->

 

[zarkov]

52 minutes ago, DarianF said:

 

I tried to find a simpler explanation / answer. Hope this helps:

 

Does evolution contradict the second law of thermodynamics? (Intermediate)

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/136-physics/general-physics/thermodynamics/816-does-evolution-contradict-the-second-law-of-thermodynamics-intermediate

 

Quote

The second law of thermodynamics simply says that the entropy of a closed system will tend to increase with time. "Entropy" is a technical term with a precise physical definition, but for most purposes it is okay to think of it as equivalent to "disorder". Therefore, the second law of thermodynamics basically says that the universe as a whole gets more disordered and random as time goes on.

However, the most important part of the second law of thermodynamics is that it only applies to a closed system - one that does not have anything going in or out of it. There is nothing about the second law that prevents one part of a closed system from getting more ordered, as long as another part of the system is getting more disordered.

Or, if you prefer an example that doesn't require conscious human intervention, consider what happens when the weather changes and it gets colder outside. Cold air has less entropy than warm air - basically, it is more "ordered" because the molecules aren't moving around as much and have fewer places they can be. So the entropy in your local part of the universe has decreased, but as long as that is accompanied by an increase in entropy somewhere else, the second law of thermodynamics has not been violated.

 

The contradiction is that life appears on the whole to be suited to warm conditions where entropy would be at its greatest!

According to that description as temperature decreases entropy also decreases. Contradicting life on this earth.

The Cambrian explosion occurred during relative temperature increases and co2 abundance!

 

Like most scientism the argument is modified to the goal post location.

 

[DarianF]

23 minutes ago, zarkov said:

 

 

The contradiction is that life appears on the whole to be suited to warm conditions where entropy would be at its greatest!

According to that description as temperature decreases entropy also decreases. Contradicting life on this earth.

The Cambrian explosion occurred during relative temperature increases and co2 abundance!

 

Like most scientism the argument is modified to the goal post location.

 

 

Even within the confines of our terracentricity, we can observe that life survives in a wide range of temperatures.

Edited April 15, 2022 by DarianF

[zarkov]

8 minutes ago, DarianF said:

 

Even within the confines of our terracentricity, we can observe that life survives in a wide range of temperatures.

 

Survive and thrive are not the same.

Abundance where the entropic state pervades is contradictory!

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by zarkov

[DarianF]

4 minutes ago, zarkov said:

 

Survive and thrive are not the same.

Abundance where the entropic state pervades is contradictory!

 

 

Or you could just look at it from a physics perspective, as "a special case of a more general phenomenon" ( https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-thermodynamics-theory-of-the-origin-of-life-20140122/ ).

[Pinkiebee]

37 minutes ago, zarkov said:

 

 

The contradiction is that life appears on the whole to be suited to warm conditions where entropy would be at its greatest!

According to that description as temperature decreases entropy also decreases. Contradicting life on this earth.

The Cambrian explosion occurred during relative temperature increases and co2 abundance!

 

Like most scientism the argument is modified to the goal post location.

 

I keep telling you life doesn't contradiction entropy. In fact it speeds it up. 

 

I'm not sure why you keep banging on regardless 

 

The fact there was life about when he wrote the law is a fair clue

Edited April 15, 2022 by Pinkiebee

[DarianF]

1 hour ago, Pinkiebee said:

Well they are likely to be universal in this universe which may or may not be the only one

 

But reading between the lines.  I dont think it says what you think it does  in any universe . 

 

Which means we are likely to be at cross purposes.  With your understanding not at all fitting with the explination I'm giving of why life doesnt contradict a universal law 

 

Here's an interesting talk you may like:

 

 

[Pinkiebee]

Just now, DarianF said:

 

Here's an interesting talk you may like:

 

 

Il watch that later. Thanks. 

[DarianF]

1 minute ago, Pinkiebee said:

Il watch that later. Thanks. 

 

Cheers.

[zarkov]

4 minutes ago, DarianF said:

 

Or you could just look at it from a physics perspective, as "a special case of a more general phenomenon" ( https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-thermodynamics-theory-of-the-origin-of-life-20140122/ ).

again it is proposal rather than evidential as self stated.

using terms such as "theory" as opposed to "hypothesis" in which it should be correctly couched is misleading and lends credence where none is due.

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Pinkiebee said:

I keep telling you life doesn't contradiction entropy. In fact it speeds it up. 

 

I'm not sure why you keep banging on regardless 

Yes, I comprehend what you say. You referred to material that passes through the organism whereas I refer to the organism itself. Need I repeat the word contradiction.

 

I didn't realise however that I was banging on. It rather seemed the converse.

Thanks all the same and have a nice day.

[zarkov]

Let me put it another way.

 

We are on a lump of rock, a primordial soup.

At the beginning of time (if such a thing exists)

...the first form of life supposedly was what?

???????????????????????????????????????

Edited April 15, 2022 by zarkov

[Pinkiebee]

 

6 minutes ago, zarkov said:

again it is proposal rather than evidential as self stated.

using terms such as "theory" as opposed to "hypothesis" in which it should be correctly couched is misleading and lends credence where none is due.

 

 

 

Yes, I comprehend what you say. You referred to material that passes through the organism whereas I refer to the organism itself. Need I repeat the word contradiction.

 

I didn't realise however that I was banging on. It rather seemed the converse.

Thanks all the same and have a nice day.

No I was referring to energy. And its conversion from one form to another.  Which is short hand for entropy as that's rather what the process consists of .

 

Please dont repeat the word contradiction as there isnt one

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Pinkiebee

[DarianF]

5 minutes ago, zarkov said:

again it is proposal rather than evidential as self stated.

using terms such as "theory" as opposed to "hypothesis" in which it should be correctly couched is misleading and lends credence where none is due.

 

Indeed, the paper is a fresh look on the second law. Not the final word. http://www.englandlab.com/uploads/7/8/0/3/7803054/2013jcpsrep.pdf

[Pinkiebee]

Just now, zarkov said:

Let me put it another way.

 

We are on a lump of rock, a primordial soup.

At the beginning of time (if such a thing exists)

...the first form of life supposedly was what?

???????????????????????????????????????

Well rock and iron and a bit of lead gold etc 

 

There was no actual soup involved. Its was quite a bit later than the beginning of time 

 

But other than that good try

[DarianF]

4 minutes ago, zarkov said:

Let me put it another way.

 

We are on a lump of rock, a primordial soup.

At the beginning of time (if such a thing exists)

...the first form of life supposedly was what?

???????????????????????????????????????

 

The first replicators ( https://www.cell.com/trends/ecology-evolution/pdf/S0169-5347(20)30003-3.pdf ), which led to the first life.

 

Also, here is some discussion on the emergence of RNA:

 

 

If you want a bit more of a literature review, see this publication ( specific chapter linked here: https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/11919/chapter/7 ).