Jump to content

TIME, what is it.


bobb
 Share

Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:


Please inform me how I am wrong and that magnetism and electromagnetism are the same thing...I am all ears.

I didn't say they were the same thing though of course they can be insome situations. I said they weren't entirely different things

 

Magnetism is electro magnetism stored in a medium if you take the electro away. A medium is magnetised by the electro magnetism of the earth's core which rearranges the atoms so they maintain some of the energy of the electric field

Or it's stored electro magnetism Or of course you can do the same ( usually better) with your own electric fields

Consult Maxwell for the detail

Edited by jois
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, jois said:

I didn't say they were the same thing though of course they can be insome situations. I said they weren't entirely different things

 

Magnetism is electro magnetism stored in a medium if you take the electro away. A medium is magnetised by the electro magnetism of the earth's core which rearranges the atoms so they maintain some of the energy of the electric field

Or it's stored electro magnetism Or of course you can do the same ( usually better) with your own electric fields

Consult Maxwell for the detail


Do you subscribe to the Earth being flat?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, jois said:

That's a serious swerve off topic?

 

Why do you think it's relivent to this topic


Because that appears to be a group of people who do not understand the difference between magnetism and elecromagnetism.



As you say energy is stored in a magnet, can a magnet run out of energy then?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:


Because that appears to be a group of people who do not understand the difference between magnetism and elecromagnetism.



As you say energy is stored in a magnet, can a magnet run out of energy then?

 

Yes eventually .every time you stick it to something you deminish the stored electro magnetism / energy.  sooner or latter it won't support it's own weight. Though there will be a residual amount for a very long time.If you leave it sat in the earth it will keep going to the earth is swallowed by the sun. Then of course it will be part of the sun's electro magnet field for a few more billion years

Edited by jois
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, jois said:

Yes eventually .every time you stick it to something you deminish the stored electro magnetism / energy. If you leave it sat in the earth it will keep going to the earth is swallowed by the sun. Then of course it will be part of the sun's electro magnet field for a few more billion years


A magnet is defined by its atomic structure, that can be undone but does not run out of energy. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy - the smaller the space the higher the capacitance, or higher the energy, at the centre of each and every magnet is counterspace an infinite point. A magnet taps in to that energy source, also called vacuum energy.

The vacuum energy of free space has been estimated to be 10−9 joules (10−2 ergs), or ~5 GeV per cubic metre. A magnet doesn't run out unless its atomic structure becomes misaligned again from outside influence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:


A magnet is defined by its atomic structure, that can be undone but does not run out of energy. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy - the smaller the space the higher the capacitance, or higher the energy, at the centre of each and every magnet is counterspace an infinite point. A magnet taps in to that energy source, also called vacuum energy.

The vacuum energy of free space has been estimated to be 10−9 joules (10−2 ergs), or ~5 GeV per cubic metre. A magnet doesn't run out unless its atomic structure becomes misaligned again from outside influence.

It's runs out of energy to be defined as being magnetic. All iron amongst other things carries a magnetic energy. It is no better or worse than a tin of beans at sticking to fridges. Try using a compass in a steel structure.. The atoms never run out of energy

Edited by jois
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The argument here seems to be about things that will happen over aeons.

 

Yes, of course the energy in a magnet will eventually disappear, as will the magnet and everything else. It's called Entropy, and will result in what they call the 'heat-death of the Universe.'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, webtrekker said:

The argument here seems to be about things that will happen over aeons.

 

Yes, of course the energy in a magnet will eventually disappear, as will the magnet and everything else. It's called Entropy, and will result in what they call the 'heat-death of the Universe.'

My point. Eventually can be very long time indeed

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, jois said:

In what way.

Because it (a magnet) defies the first and second laws of thermodynamics as previously stated, which as far as I am aware one of which is entropy.

Time (the measure we invented) is not linear inside a magnetic field, which is what gives rise to time dilation, which is how this all started.

Edited by TheConsultant
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

Because it (a magnet) defies the first and second laws of thermodynamics as previously stated, which as far as I am aware one of which is entropy.

I got that from the other post.

 

How do you consider it defies entropy. As it will eventual be broken down in to atoms it seem to fit the general concept

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, jois said:

I got that from the other post.

 

How do you consider it defies entropy. As it will eventual be broken down in to atoms it seem to fit the general concept


Because everything tends towards more order not less. Understand a magnet and you understand a unified model of physics which undoes a lot of our current "laws".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:


Because everything tends towards more order not less. Understand a magnet and you understand a unified model of physics which undoes a lot of our current "laws".

Sorry I'm not getting your point . Particularly as it applies to magnets.

 

Entropy in a nutshell is that things tend towards dis order over time. Not that they cant become more ordered on that jouney. Just that eventually they will break into constituent parts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

Because everything tends towards more order not less.

 

But isn't that the opposite of Entropy, which states that everything tends towards disorder?

 

To follow that argument you would have to ditch the current laws of physics, which you could do of course, but you'd then have to explain why the current laws don't work in many other circumstances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, jois said:

Sorry I'm not getting your point . Particularly as it applies to magnets.

 

Entropy in a nutshell is that things tend towards dis order over time. Not that they cant become more ordered on that jouney. Just that eventually they will break into constituent parts


Disorder, randomness etc are terms used by people who do not understand the laws of nature, it is entirely pressure mediation. Everything in the visible universe is due to magnetism. Force in motion and inertia and acceleration. The balance and interaction of that via field theory. No randomness at all. Randomness is for people obsessed with particles, at least quantum looks at the wave state and does most if not all calculations based on waves of energy rather than particles. 

Entropy is visibily incorrect, look at its definition and look around the universe, as over time everything becomes more ordered, rebirthed, cyclic, yes but more order over time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, webtrekker said:

But isn't that the opposite of Entropy, which states that everything tends towards disorder?

 

To follow that argument you would have to ditch the current laws of physics, which you could do of course, but you'd then have to explain why the current laws don't work in many other circumstances.

Precisely my point.

The laws of Newtonian gravitation work until you look at magnetism. E=MC2 works until you look at magnetism. A lot of laws work up to a point, which is my point, they cannot be hard and fast laws if they fall down by looking at a magnet which defies them entirely. 

Where is this energy coming from within and emanating from a magnet? What is point source? 

Edited by TheConsultant
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:


Disorder, randomness etc are terms used by people who do not understand the laws of nature, it is entirely pressure mediation. Everything in the visible universe is due to magnetism. Force in motion and inertia and acceleration. The balance and interaction of that via field theory. No randomness at all. Randomness is for people obsessed with particles, at least quantum looks at the wave state and does most if not all calculations based on waves of energy rather than particles. 

Entropy is visibily incorrect, look at its definition and look around the universe, as over time everything becomes more ordered, rebirthed, cyclic, yes but more order over time.

Well that's nearly true. Electro magnetism is what binds the quarks together. No electro magnetism no matter.

 

But I'm still trying to under your point that magnets defy entropy.its a hard sell as magnets clearly break down into constituent parts over time

Edited by jois
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, webtrekker said:

Really, there's nothing special about a magnet.

 

Gravity pulls things down because in needs to minimize potential energy. A magnet will pull things up for the same reason, provided the magnetic force is great enough to overcome gravity.


Its a point source object. Gravity doesn't pull. Minimising energy is conservation of energy and plays in to everything including magnetism, its what gives rise to what we call gravity as everything wants to be at its lowest energy configuration. What is the magnetic force that is overcoming gravity? where does it come from? we are no inputting anything, yet for x number of aeons that object has its own "energy" right? What is the source of that energy

 

Edited by TheConsultant
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

Precisely my point.

The laws of Newtonian gravitation work until you look at magnetism. E=MC2 works until you look at magnetism. A lot of laws work up to a point, which is my point, they cannot be hard and fast laws if they fall down by looking at a magnet which defies them entirely. 

Where is this energy coming from within and emanating from a magnet? What is point source? 

I sort of asked this question before with no answer. How do magnets defy e equals mc2

We have done how they defy gravity. So this one next please

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:


Its a point source object. Gravity doesn't pull. Minimising energy is conservation of energy and plays in to everything including magnetism. What is the magnetic force that is overcoming gravity?

 

Done that it's electro magntism

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...