TIME, what is it.

[RobinJ]

On 7/16/2023 at 8:18 PM, Mikhail Liebestein said:

 

So entropy basically says you can't unscramble an egg. You need to crack it, stir it, cook it and this can't be reversed.

As the universe expands lots of these irreversible processes take place, and this includes the death of stars etc.

 

The Hilbert Space aspect is in many ways a mathematical construct. A matrix is a 2 dimensional array of numbers, but in maths there are also things called tensors, which go three dimensions or beyond, eg a cube where the grid inside is full of numbers, or a tesseract which is a 4D cube, 5D, 6D and so on up to infinite dimensions.

 

Basically a lot of new models of the universe, which incorporate quantum theory, work if space has and can expand into infinite dimensions.

 

So there is up/down, left/right, forward/backward plus infinite other directions, we just can't access them as they are in effect to us connected parallel universes with slightly different outcomes to our own, though this sea of parallel universes also contains others that are radically different, eg Germany won WW2 etc.

 

The extra dimension concept is I guess what was used in Dr Who to state how the Tardis is bigger on the inside than the outside.

But...we can access them via dreams, visions, psychic ability, and meditation to name a few.

The construct of linear time only exits here and is one of the methods used to control us, and so we can be here. 

All the time travelling entertainment is there to keep us believing that we are solely rooted here. Even quantum science is catching up with this now.

[Mr H]

2 hours ago, RobinJ said:

 

The construct of linear time only exits here and is one of the methods used to control us, and so we can be here. 

All the time travelling entertainment is there to keep us believing that we are solely rooted here. Even quantum science is catching up with this now.

Yes we only experience time because that's how our limited minds are configured to view the eternal now.

 

In fact that's not even true. We never actually experience time either when we closely take a look.

 

Handy thing to have though so you know what time EastEnders is on.

 

I can tell you what time it is....NOW.

 

 

And I can tell you the time yesterday. It was NOW......

 

And tomorrow, yes you guessed it. It will still be NOW O CLOCK!

Edited November 22, 2023 by Mr H

[Campion]

2 hours ago, Mr H said:

Yes we only experience time because that's how our limited minds are configured to view the eternal now.

 

In fact that's not even true. We never actually experience time either when we closely take a look.

 

Handy thing to have though so you know what time EastEnders is on.

 

I can tell you what time it is....NOW.

 

And I can tell you the time yesterday. It was NOW......

 

And tomorrow, yes you guessed it. It will still be NOW O CLOCK!

 

"And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking

Racing around to come up behind you again

The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older

Shorter of breath and one day closer to death" 

 

That's from Pink Floyd's Time, I'm quoting it to say that although it's always Now in the present moment (a truism imo), things change too. All those Now moments aren't the same, isn't time the process of change? 

[Mr H]

11 minutes ago, Campion said:

 

"And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking

Racing around to come up behind you again

The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older

Shorter of breath and one day closer to death" 

 

That's from Pink Floyd's Time, I'm quoting it to say that although it's always Now in the present moment (a truism imo), things change too. All those Now moments aren't the same, isn't time the process of change? 

Nothing ever changes, but it appears to always be changing. We can call this seeming appearance time if we wish, if it helps.

[XelNaga]

On 1/5/2023 at 5:44 PM, sock muppet said:

everything we think we know has been molested first, 

This is so funny, yet so true!

One of the most perfect "quotes" I have ever read 

[XelNaga]

On 7/13/2023 at 2:56 PM, Grumpy Grapes said:

I find it puzzling that we humans can consciously control our own bodies almost instantaneously, but can't control an external body, like a chair, unless you are a Jedi.

 

Is this to do with time? Is it because our minds are in a different time frame to the physical world? Are our neurons closer in time to our conscious minds, whereas a chair is further in the past, even if it is the merest fraction of time in the past?

I have no idea about that, but our minds affect the way we experience time.

 

We all know that when you are having fun, "time flies", yet when you are bored "time stops".

 

Also, when you have something important to do and you are on a schedule, "time flies". Yet, when you wait for someone or something, "time stops".

 

Some people also report that, during for example a car crash, seconds seem like minutes etc.

 

Either we are much more powerful than we know, or someone is fucking with us and having a good laugh 

[Mr H]

On 7/13/2023 at 1:56 PM, Grumpy Grapes said:

I find it puzzling that we humans can consciously control our own bodies almost instantaneously, but can't control an external body, like a chair, unless you are a Jedi.

 

 

"You" control about 0.000001% of your body and even those are questionable.

 

Try and stop breathing. Stop your kidneys, swap your left and right testicles with each other.

 

Impossible. I tried!

[Grumpy Grapes]

6 minutes ago, Mr H said:

"You" control about 0.000001% of your body and even those are questionable.

 

Try and stop breathing. Stop your kidneys, swap your left and right testicles with each other.

 

Impossible. I tried!

 

I was talking about the control we have over our limbs, mouth and eyes, which has facilitated our scientific advancement. There is also the ability to slow down our heart rate; to not feel pain. 

[Mr H]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

 

I was talking about the control we have over our limbs, mouth and eyes, which has facilitated our scientific advancement. There is also the ability to slow down our heart rate; to not feel pain. 

So only a small part of the body.

 

And if you wanted to move your arm. You'd probably require a thought first? Did you go into the thought bucket and choose to move your arm rather than leg? Or did this all happen and you are just the passenger playing the role of pilot?

[Grumpy Grapes]

39 minutes ago, Mr H said:

So only a small part of the body.

 

And if you wanted to move your arm. You'd probably require a thought first? Did you go into the thought bucket and choose to move your arm rather than leg? Or did this all happen and you are just the passenger playing the role of pilot?

 

Control is control, even if it is only certain parts of the human body. And it is a control that I don't have over a chair. 

 

And, yes, it is me who choses to type these words, not my kidneys nor the wind, nor some vaguely defined external 'mind'. 

[Mr H]

40 minutes ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

 

Control is control, even if it is only certain parts of the human body. And it is a control that I don't have over a chair. 

 

And, yes, it is me who choses to type these words, not my kidneys nor the wind, nor some vaguely defined external 'mind'. 

No thanks for sharing. Your experience of thoughts is very different to mine.

 

I do not get to choose from an array of thoughts, they just appear as if from nowhere. Interesting I will have to ask some more people. TY.

[Campion]

7 hours ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

Control is control, even if it is only certain parts of the human body. And it is a control that I don't have over a chair. 

 

And, yes, it is me who choses to type these words, not my kidneys nor the wind, nor some vaguely defined external 'mind'. 

 

Yes a lot of control happens in the brain, even tho much of it is subconscious like controlling the heartbeat , hunger or hormones. I guess it depends if I'm just identifying with my conscious mind, or the whole thing. 

 

When I first learned meditation (apart from TM, that's a different story), they explained that the breath is chosen as a focus for beginners because it's halfway between conscious control and an unconscious automatic process. Breathing happens by itself but we can change it to some extent, eg slow down to get relaxed or deep breathing to destress. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Campion

[webtrekker]

11 hours ago, Mr H said:

So only a small part of the body.

 

And if you wanted to move your arm. You'd probably require a thought first? Did you go into the thought bucket and choose to move your arm rather than leg? Or did this all happen and you are just the passenger playing the role of pilot?

 

All of this seems to be bordering on the notion of Fate. Do you believe we control our own lives or are we controlled by Fate?

 

 

 

[Grumpy Grapes]

2 minutes ago, webtrekker said:

 

All of this seems to be bordering on the notion of Fate. Do you believe we control our own lives or are we controlled by Fate?

 

 

 

 

I think it is both, but it bothers me that there are those who promote the idea that we have no free will. It occurs in the New Age movement and seems to dovetail with the idea that we subordinate ourselves to 'higher minds' - a hive mind? 

 

Also, we've all gone off track and aren't discussing time!

[webtrekker]

5 minutes ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

 

I think it is both, but it bothers me that there are those who promote the idea that we have no free will. It occurs in the New Age movement and seems to dovetail with the idea that we subordinate ourselves to 'higher minds' - a hive mind? 

 

Also, we've all gone off track and aren't discussing time!

 

Agreed.

 

While we're off-track though ...

 

I believe Stephen Hawking hit the nail on the head regarding people who believe in Fate.

 

He said that those who truly believe in Fate should try standing at the edge of a busy road and cross it with their eyes closed. Now THAT would be a true test!

 

 

 

[Mr H]

1 hour ago, webtrekker said:

 

All of this seems to be bordering on the notion of Fate. Do you believe we control our own lives or are we controlled by Fate?

 

 

 

Well by the way you phrase the question.

 

It implies that there are separate controlling entities. One called me, the other called fate.

 

There is no me and fate is just a concept.

 

You could phrase it a different way. Are movement predetermined or spontaneous. The answer from my experience is it is all spontaneous. Although within that spontaneity resides programmes of which the outcome will have high or low probability of occuring.

[Mr H]

When I say there is no me.

 

What I mean is. What people think is MR H, under close inspection is simply an activity of a cluster of thoughts, feelings and perceptions. Because of the way things appear, people then make a massive leap in assumptions and give these activities its own name and think it's it's own separate entity. No need to make this false leap when there is no such evidence. Just be happy that human experience is just an activity not an entity.....of the one they call, I.

[RobinJ]

20 hours ago, Mr H said:

Yes we only experience time because that's how our limited minds are configured to view the eternal now.

 

In fact that's not even true. We never actually experience time either when we closely take a look.

 

Handy thing to have though so you know what time EastEnders is on.

 

I can tell you what time it is....NOW.

 

 

And I can tell you the time yesterday. It was NOW......

 

And tomorrow, yes you guessed it. It will still be NOW O CLOCK!

Haha yes! Imagine coming across someone in the street and they ask you the time, and you say "time only exits in the now, therefore the time is now"

Would love to see the reaction to that!

[XelNaga]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:57 PM, Mr H said:

"You" control about 0.000001% of your body and even those are questionable.

 

Try and stop breathing. Stop your kidneys, swap your left and right testicles with each other.

 

Impossible. I tried!

Okay, that is all true, but why, oh why, would you want to swap your testicles 

[XelNaga]

On 11/23/2023 at 3:14 AM, Mr H said:

No thanks for sharing. Your experience of thoughts is very different to mine.

 

I do not get to choose from an array of thoughts, they just appear as if from nowhere. Interesting I will have to ask some more people. TY.

I think our thoughts have 3 origins:

-our conscious mind (small percentage)

-our unconscious mind (huge percentage)

-external factors (small percentage).

 

Number 1 we have control over.

Number 2, only people who meditated for a long time have control over, for 99% of people it's automatic.

Number 3 is harmless for most people, but if you are a TI, or you work on yourself but stil haven't reached certain point, those bastards will try to sabotage you really hard.

[Grumpy Grapes]

50 minutes ago, XelNaga said:

I think our thoughts have 3 origins:

-our conscious mind (small percentage)

-our unconscious mind (huge percentage)

-external factors (small percentage).

 

Number 1 we have control over.

Number 2, only people who meditated for a long time have control over, for 99% of people it's automatic.

Number 3 is harmless for most people, but if you are a TI, or you work on yourself but stil haven't reached certain point, those bastards will try to sabotage you really hard.

 

We are not mindless slaves to our thoughts, regardless of where those thoughts come from. A distinction has to be made between the influences on our behaviour and the eventual behaviour selected. 

 

Bringing this thread back to the subject of time - if this world is a 'time trap', why can't our supposedly 'timeless' minds break free from it? For all the talk of meditation and altered states of consciousness, none of those religious/New Age teachers have broke free. 

[RobinJ]

On 11/25/2023 at 3:41 PM, Grumpy Grapes said:

 

We are not mindless slaves to our thoughts, regardless of where those thoughts come from. A distinction has to be made between the influences on our behaviour and the eventual behaviour selected. 

 

Bringing this thread back to the subject of time - if this world is a 'time trap', why can't our supposedly 'timeless' minds break free from it? For all the talk of meditation and altered states of consciousness, none of those religious/New Age teachers have broke free. 

If you think about it though, every time you meditate or are in that zone, you 'lose time ' so yes you can break free and see more. We break free, if you want to view it that way, when our energy leaves the physical body. Its achievable for very long periods of 'time''. Monks do that for most of their day, every day.

Time roots us to this reality. It doesn't exist elsewhere. Its part of the fake veil we live under.

[Grumpy Grapes]

1 hour ago, RobinJ said:

If you think about it though, every time you meditate or are in that zone, you 'lose time ' so yes you can break free and see more. We break free, if you want to view it that way, when our energy leaves the physical body. Its achievable for very long periods of 'time''. Monks do that for most of their day, every day.

Time roots us to this reality. It doesn't exist elsewhere. Its part of the fake veil we live under.

 

I mean break free from this realm and not come back. Astral travellers still return, whether they want to or not.

[Campion]

31 minutes ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

I mean break free from this realm and not come back. Astral travellers still return, whether they want to or not.

 

From what I know of the subject, astral travellers are connected to their physical bodies with a silver cord, it's a term from the Bible I believe, and the cord is severed at death. Which implies that as long as you have a physical body you're confined to the realm of space & time. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_cord 

 

Putting it into eastern terms, a spiritual master like the Buddha can attain nirvana while still alive but it's only upon death that they attain parinirvana which means the end of the cycle of reincarnation and karma. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parinirvana  

Edited November 27, 2023 by Campion

[Grumpy Grapes]

21 minutes ago, Campion said:

 

From what I know of the subject, astral travellers are connected to their physical bodies with a silver cord, it's a term from the Bible I believe, and the cord is severed at death. Which implies that as long as you have a physical body you're confined to the realm of space & time. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_cord 

 

Putting it into eastern terms, a spiritual master like the Buddha can attain nirvana while still alive but it's only upon death that they attain parinirvana which means the end of the cycle of reincarnation and karma. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parinirvana  

 

But why can't our 'timeless' minds just quit this realm whenever they want?