# TIME, what is it.

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Just now, jois said:

Done that it's electro magntism

Virtual photons lol. Seriously its point source, go learn.

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4 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

Its a point source object. Gravity doesn't pull. Minimising energy is conservation of energy and plays in to everything including magnetism. What is the magnetic force that is overcoming gravity?

No gravity doesn't pull. Not at all

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2 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

Virtual photons lol. Seriously its point source, go learn.

Electro magnetism is in no way dependent of virtual photons.

Which don't exist anyway and no one serious claims they do.its just a maths trick

Edited by jois
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1 minute ago, jois said:

Electro magnetism is in no way dependent of virtual photons.

Which don't exist anyway.its just a maths trick

Yes, I was being facetious , as much of our understanding is based on mathematics rather than observed phenomena.

Electromagnetism is light.

Edited by TheConsultant
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1 minute ago, TheConsultant said:

Yes, I was being facetious , as much of our understanding is based on mathematics rather than observed phenomena.

Electromagnetism is light.

All light is electro magnetism not all electro magnetism is light

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Just now, jois said:

All light is electro magnetism not all electro magnetism is light

Can we do why magnets disprove e equals mc2 please

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6 minutes ago, jois said:

Can we do why magnets disprove e equals mc2 please

We don't need to go over it all over again surely? Same reason a magnet defies gravity with no energy input. Plot it on a graph, energy = zero but its mass is not, already broken e=mc2. You cannot have 0 times its mass as it would always output 0.

Edited by TheConsultant
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9 minutes ago, jois said:

All light is electro magnetism not all electro magnetism is light

OK, so what changes between the top and bottom of that spectrum outside of the speed of oscillation and the name we give it?

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1 minute ago, TheConsultant said:

We don't need to go over it all over again surely? Same reason a magnet defies gravity with no energy input. Plot it on a graph, energy = zero but its mass is not, already broken e=mc2. You cannot have 0 times its mass as it would always output 0.

Well have never done it

E equals mc2 which is not in fact the full equation should you ever have cause to use it

Is the total energy contain in the " mass" what ever that mass may be

That include s the energy contain in the atoms plus any kinetic or electro magnasm stored.

So a magnet has its energy from its atomic structure plus the stored electro magnetic energy.

A compressed spring has its atomic structure plus the kinetic energy  in the compression.

Which means if you transpose the formulation both a magnet and a compressed spring weigh more that their counter parts that are not storing energy

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2 minutes ago, jois said:

Well have never done it

E equals mc2 which is not in fact the full equation should you ever have cause to use it

Is the total energy contain in the " mass" what ever that mass may be

That include s the energy contain in the atoms plus any kinetic or electro magnasm stored.

So a magnet has its energy from its atomic structure plus the stored electro magnetic energy.

A compressed spring has its atomic structure plus the kinetic energy  in the compression.

Which means if you transpose the formulation both a magnet and a compressed spring weigh more that their counter parts that are not storing energy

Put the full equation out, it is still wrong. lol.

So you are saying a magnet is storing potential energy? and that is what its using to stay on a surface? because a magnet has nothing to do with electromagnetism, storage, nor potential, regardless of how many times you say it. A magnet is a point source object, like a laser is point source light.

Edited by TheConsultant
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2 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

Put the full equation out, it is still wrong. lol.

So you are saying a magnet is storing potential energy? and that is what its using to stay on a surface? because a magnet has nothing to do with electromagnetism, regardless of how many times you say it. A magnet is a point source object, like a laser is point source light.

Try reading it mate.its a lot less time consuming.

I didn't mention potential energy. Just kinetic and electro magnet energy

Edited by jois
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3 minutes ago, jois said:

Try reading it mate.its a lot less time consuming.

I didn't mention potential energy. Just kinetic and electro magnet energy

I read it and much like most of your replies they are meaningless.

And by your definition a magnet should become heavier after it becomes a magnet?

Edited by TheConsultant
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A magnet stays 'stuck' to a surface such as a fridge nearly indefinitely because the force never diminishes, having no work to do. (Work = force x distance moved).

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5 minutes ago, webtrekker said:

A magnet stays 'stuck' to a surface such as a fridge nearly indefinitely because the force never diminishes, having no work to do. (Work = force x distance moved).

No. I've had fridge magnets give up after a decade of so , I'm not sure that's the right formular .batteries dont move either but do tend to diminish over time

The work done is resisting potential energy. Ie not moving

Edited by jois
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1 minute ago, webtrekker said:

A magnet stays 'stuck' to a surface such as a fridge nearly indefinitely because the force never diminishes, having no work to do. (Work = force x distance moved).

You use the word force there. What force? where is this coming from? Why does a magnet have no work to do as it still has mass and thus is being affected by gravity is it not?

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2 minutes ago, jois said:

No. I've had fridge magnets give up after a decade of so , I'm not sure that's the right formular batteries done move either but do tend to diminish over time

4 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

You use the word force there. What force? where is this coming from? Why does a magnet have no work to do as it still has mass and thus is being affected by gravity is it not?

Just covered that above

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5 minutes ago, jois said:

Just covered that above

No, no you haven't. Your reply exists though, I will give you that.

Edited by TheConsultant
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2 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

No, no you haven't. You reply exists though, I will give you that.

I said exactly the same as you.though in a more elegant and less demanding way.

But let's wait for him to return  and get back to either the energy equivalence principal ( e equals mc2) or entropy.

You choose

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7 minutes ago, jois said:

I said exactly the same as you.though in a more elegant and less demanding way.

But let's wait for him to return  and get back to either the energy equivalence principal ( e equals mc2) or entropy.

You choose

We wouldn't be disagreeing if you said the same as me. Nothing to do with electromagnetism or stored energy at all, on any level, obviously. Its ALIGNMENT of atomic structure, not storage or potential, or anything remotely like a battery like your analogy somewhere above.

When I ask questions it is not because I need the answers, its generally because I wish for people to think about it for themselves.

Edited by TheConsultant
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7 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

We wouldn't be disagreeing if you said the same as me. Nothing to do with electromagnetism or stored energy at all, on any level, obviously.

Please read what I wrote. My reply to webtrecker said much the same as yours with regard to a magnet having to overcome potential energy/ gravity.

Can we stop having a debate with someone who isn't here at the moment and get back to our interesting discussion

Edited by jois
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5 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

We wouldn't be disagreeing if you said the same as me. Nothing to do with electromagnetism or stored energy at all, on any level, obviously.

So.... How do magnets disprove e equals mc2

I've given a synopsis. What's your explanation of why I'm wrong ?

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Just now, jois said:

So.... How do magnets disprove e equals mc2

I've given a synopsis. What's your explanation of why I'm wrong ?

lol. I am done, utterly pointless. I have explained why that is the case multiple times now. I assume you do not understand it?

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15 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

You use the word force there. What force? where is this coming from? Why does a magnet have no work to do as it still has mass and thus is being affected by gravity is it not?

Ok. By lifting a magnet and placing it on a fridge you are carrying out work and, because the magnet is then moving against gravity, then it will gain energy.

Once placed on the fridge it will no longer be moving ,so will not expend any energy due to it not having any work to do. It will stay there indefinitely.

Now, I'm no expert, but maybe after many times of removing and replacing the magnet (as people often do to clean the fridge or just create a new arrangement) the magnet will gradually become demagnetised.

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Just now, TheConsultant said:

lol. I am done, utterly pointless. I have explained why that is the case multiple times now. I assume you do not understand it?

You've been adamant in your claims I'm wrong. But very light on expinations of why that may be so

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3 minutes ago, webtrekker said:

Ok. By lifting a magnet and placing it on a fridge you are carrying out work and, because the magnet is then moving against gravity, then it will gain energy.

Once placed on the fridge it will no longer be moving ,so will not expend any energy due to it not having any work to do. It will stay there indefinitely.

Now, I'm no expert, but maybe after many times of removing and replacing the magnet (as people often do to clean the fridge or just create a new arrangement) the magnet will gradually become demagnetised.

All true. But now it has stored gravitational potential energy. Ie it want to fall.this being resisted by the magnetic attraction. Which is ongoing work

Like holding a bag of potatoes is ongoing work

Edited by jois

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