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All electric cars by 2030?


GregC
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What is the cost to the environment of replacing petrol and diesel vehicles with electric cars?

 

How many minerals will need to be mined out of the earth and what is the cost in terms of environmental damage and also the human cost of achieving that?

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25 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

What is the cost to the environment of replacing petrol and diesel vehicles with electric cars?

 

How many minerals will need to be mined out of the earth and what is the cost in terms of environmental damage and also the human cost of achieving that?

A lithium EV battery weighs about 1,000 pounds.(a) While there are dozens of variations, such a battery typically contains about 25 pounds of lithium, 30 pounds of cobalt, 60 pounds of nickel, 110 pounds of graphite, 90 pounds of copper,(b) about 400 pounds of steel, aluminum, and various plastic components.(c) 

 

Looking upstream at the ore grades, one can estimate the typical quantity of rock that must be extracted from the earth and processed to yield the pure minerals needed to fabricate that single battery:

 

  • Lithium brines typically contain less than 0.1% lithium, so that entails some 25,000 pounds of brines to get the 25 pounds of pure lithium.(d)

 

  • Cobalt ore grades average about 0.1%, thus nearly 30,000 pounds of ore.(e) 

 

  • Nickel ore grades average about 1%, thus about 6,000 pounds of ore.(f)

 

  • Graphite ore is typically 10%, thus about 1,000 pounds per battery.(g)

 

  • Copper at about 0.6% in the ore, thus about 25,000 pounds of ore per battery.(h)

 

In total then, acquiring just these five elements to produce the 1,000-pound EV battery requires mining about 90,000 pounds of ore. To properly account for all of the earth moved though—which is relevant to the overall environmental footprint, and mining machinery energy use—one needs to estimate the overburden, or the materials first dug up to get to the ore. Depending on ore type and location, overburden ranges from about 3 to 20 tons of earth removed to access each ton of ore.(i) 

 

This means that accessing about 90,000 pounds of ore requires digging and moving between 200,000 and over 1,500,000 pounds of earth—a rough average of more than 500,000 pounds per battery. The precise number will vary for different battery chemistry formulations, and because different regions have widely variable ore grades. It bears noting that this total material footprint does not include the large quantities of materials and chemicals used to process and refine all the various ores. Nor have we counted other materials used when compared with a conventional car, such as replacing steel with aluminum to offset the weight penalty of the battery, or the supply chain for rare earth elements used in electric motors (e.g., neodymium, dysprosium).(j) Also excluded from this tally: the related, but non-battery, electrical systems in an EV use some 300% more overall copper used compared with a conventional automobile.(k)

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Posted (edited)

My wife has an electric car, we would not have one but when her company car was up for renewal, her choices were ‘limited’ shall we say.

 

The thing is absolute crap. Through the winter she gets about 50-60 miles out of an 80% charge…..they don’t tell you that in the fancy car literature! If the temperature goes below 5 celsius the battery needs to be heated, so the battery uses the battery to heat the battery……same ridiculous theory as wind turbines I suppose that use more power in the winter to heat the turbines to prevent damage, than they do produce power! It’s a f*c4ing joke honestly.

 

Along with the battery using the battery to heat the battery, if you want to defrost your windscreen, or just have a comfortable temperature in the vehicle the battery drains like Starmer downing his bottle of beer in Durham town.

 

F*4kwitt doo-gooders at my kids school ask me what I think of the car and I give it to them straight……they are a con, don’t waste your money on them. To see the look of shock on their faces is f*4in great. Why are people surprised/shocked these days when you tell them things without aires and graces attached? 😂😂
 

In my opinion the 2030 thing is a load of old b*llocks

 

I heard a bloke on the radio y’day who bought a second hand small 3 year old battery car for £18,000…..he must be off his f*4ing t!ts! The equivalent in diesel/petrol would of been a fraction of the cost……another idiot frightened into buying an electric car because of the 2030 b*llocks.
 

Lack of chargers is a big issue now and will be a bigger issue the more soppy idiots buy these things. Had the uk’s street lighting/ carpark lighting etc  had correct size cables used it would of been a piece of pish to sort out….but alas cheap old UK settled for cheap cables! What about terraced houses, people in flats etc, where will their charges go? It’s a joke…..OR are we going to have to rely on public ‘super charges’ which will charge a small fortune (as they already do) to get you a few miles up the road. It’s all a joke when you ignore the bs coming from sales reps and government.
 

Are we REALLY to believe there is no other alternative way of propulsion that is free? I mean, even electric cars are ‘destroying’ our planet aren’t they? So if world governments care so much about not ‘destroying’ our planet….as they now constantly tell us, why don’t they insist on the papers of Mr Tesla be released by the FBI so we can harvest energy from the atmosphere FREE of charge and with no environmental consequence? Mmmmmmmm I wonder why they don’t 😆

Edited by CarpeDiem
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I try to alternate cycling routes to my dad's place in this city, but whichever i take there are a maximum of 10 charging posts to be seen across roughly 4 KM. From a really shitty estimate we would need at least 2990 more for 'everyone to go electric'. Sensing a little logistical problem here.

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On 5/19/2022 at 5:00 PM, sock muppet said:

More safe and effective tales from electrotopia,:classic_rolleyes:

 

Y6FoTdMWIH9I_640x360.jpg.13440105149a1f2b4119012ac4639045.jpg

 

Oh fuck! 😱

Recently I've been made aware of this fact and told not to store electric scooter indoors.....

 

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2 hours ago, DaleP said:

 

Oh fuck! 😱

Recently I've been made aware of this fact and told not to store electric scooter indoors.....

 

 

Did you see the bus that went up in flames, quite spectacular, it's the Lithium coming into contact with Oxygen, WOOF, no one got hurt so that's ok then, but i think alternative arrangements are going to be needed when they put these things away like in a wide open space, will be interesting to see how that pans out.

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Posted (edited)

Fuck me Sock, that's like 3 flame throwers in one.

Look at the speed the fire spreads. 😲

We must tell bus drivers we absolutely want these on our streets. Hope they see my point.

 

Quote

There are 3,884 hybrid buses, 485 electric buses, and two hydrogen buses operating in London, as of March 2021, out of a total bus fleet of 9,068.[1]

 

If you happened to be on the upper deck, you won't make it out. I'm sure of it.

 

I think someone is checking out where the batteries are located.

 

Technical drawings for some of the london buses

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/technical_drawings_for_some_of_t#incoming-2042932

Edited by DaleP
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Just now, DaleP said:

Fuck me Sock, that's like 3 flame throwers in one.

Look at the speed the fire spreads. 😲

We must tell bus drivers we absolutely want these on our streets. Hope they see my point.

 

 

It's all part of build back better, after they burnt it all down of course:classic_rolleyes:

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Posted (edited)

More safe and effective buses in electrotopia, told you parking would be an issue, somewhere in London.

What a stroke of luck at least someone had their thinking cap on, right next door to repair shop, muhahaha.

 

busflame.jpg.5f21955b4fa8209df68e29640d768286.jpg

Edited by sock muppet
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  • 4 weeks later...

they seem to think that using the car batteries/tesla power walls at peak times to prop up the grid will work, of course not paying you the full rate for the power they  are draining from your batteries. 

 

i heard they installed a lot of solar and tesla power walls in Australia,  wouldn't surprise me if turning off normal power generation and relying on batteries is the cause of their woes.

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17 hours ago, bamboozooka said:

watching now80s tv channel and every ad break is a shell ad saying they are creating thousands of charging points in petrol stations and on the street

Not round here they aren't.

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