Direct Democracy - The development of a working model.

[Sheepy]

2 minutes ago, kilowon said:

We are all dead anyway. we will all die. It is inevitable. I do not fear death and no one should. But more to your point, we are all dead anyway if we do not stand up and reverse this course. Do you seriously think the death cult is not going to actioned on their plans if we just shrugged and keep our heads down? They have been working on this for millennia, and they can almost taste it. There only two way out of this, they win or we win. And we will not win by pretending it is not happening

 

I think you will find what you are proposing happened in Waco Texas. 

[Sheepy]

15 minutes ago, Ween Dwijler said:

I think he was to occupied with his little quarrel to see what this topic is really about. People like that come with the territory, I guess. Do I say that right?

Diesel is alright, a bit keen to help maybe and you are very focussed neither are so bad. 

[kilowon]

23 hours ago, Doc said:

Most surreal thread ever. 

 

in what sense?

[kilowon]

3 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

I think you will find what you are proposing happened in Waco Texas. 

It will happened anyway, just globally if we do not do anything. Maybe not as spectacularly as Waco but more slowly and barely perceptible to most until it is their turn. I am a realist in some way. People will not joined a movement unless they see it being actioned in reality. Look at the covid protest as an example. At the start it was just a few people, now there tens of thousand. When Icke started out, he had to cancel event else he would talk to himself. Look at him now. Had he waited for the crowd to come before plunging headlong into this he would still be waiting. Many have had this awakening process and then kept their heads down. You probably have never heard of those people.

[Ween Dwijler]

2 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

Diesel is alright, a bit keen to help maybe and you are very focussed neither are so bad. 

Not a bad point you make there. He tries to push his agenda of money, which is in this stage of the process completely irrelevant. I tried to make that clear to him, but he's not really listening. Neither does he seems to get the purpose of this threat; developing a working model of direct democracy, not a mix with communism or as he suggested at some point a benevolent leader we choose.

 

We all have our bad moments, but this time it was too much of it. Let him cool down a bit, think a little more, read a little more, and than come back with some good helpful suggestions. I welcome that!

[Ween Dwijler]

2 minutes ago, kilowon said:

It will happened anyway, just globally if we do not do anything. Maybe not as spectacularly as Waco but more slowly and barely perceptible to most until it is their turn. I am a realist in some way. People will not joined a movement unless they see it being actioned in reality. Look at the covid protest as an example. At the start it was just a few people, now there tens of thousand. When Icke started out, he had to cancel event else he would talk to himself. Look at him now. Had he waited for the crowd to come before plunging headlong into this he would still be waiting. Many have had this awakening process and then kept their heads down. You probably have never heard of those people.

Calm down my friend. Sheepy means well and is pretty much on the ball. Sometimes a little vague, but if you read twice you get it. Lets focus on getting a constitution, a working direct democracy model and a declaration of independence. Then we can start to talk to other people and convince them with our work.

[kilowon]

1 hour ago, Ween Dwijler said:

Yes, that could be a real issue. However, as I envision it, there would be no such thing as a government or office where LT civil servants reside. I was thinking about having people assigned or chosen to fulfill a task or manage a project only for the duration of it. For example; a community votes to build a road locally. Someone of that community volunteers or gets chosen to manage that project on behalf of the village for its duration. When the road is finished, that person has to give account of the project. Any irregularities and they will have a problem with the rest of the community.

 

Also, you talk about an elected representative. In a direct democracy there are no elected representative. Except like in the above mentioned kind of cases. But then they are not a representative but the project manager, responsible for staying within the budget and get the best possible result for it.

 

It illustrates clearly the difference between a representative democracy and a direct democracy. A member of the House in Washington DC can hardly be checked by the people who voted for him. Jim from West Oregon simply can't follow what his representative is doing over there.

In a community all happens locally and the members can see on a daily basis what is going on. If anyone thinks something is wrong, they will bring it forward right there. There is almost no chance someone can push the agenda of his secret society unnoticed.

 

Another aspect to consider is that in the example of the community decision, a budget is given. Everybody contributes his/her part. No loans taken. So, if the money is gone but the road is not there or only partly, the project manager will surely have a big problem with peers within the community. It's a matter of proper organizing things, I guess.

I really like this idea. Although we need to define what the money system would actually be in such a situation. It certainly cannot be the current one with banks. I see no reason for the existence of banks in the modern sense

[Ween Dwijler]

13 minutes ago, kilowon said:

I really like this idea. Although we need to define what the money system would actually be in such a situation. It certainly cannot be the current one with banks. I see no reason for the existence of banks in the modern sense

The matter of money is not yet relevant at this point. We're now working on a constitution (which barely mentions monetary issues), a DD model that has no relation to money at all (it's an organizational thing) and a declaration of independence (also no relation to money).

 

Banks have proven to be one of the main rotten apples in the basket of tyrannical apples. And in particular central banks are a great danger for freedom. So, yes, most likely they will no longer be a part of that new system. Having said that, there will be more institutions sacrificed in the process towards a DD. For that reason we can expect indeed heavy and likely violent opposition from those.

 

Long before banks existed, people were already using forms of money. Sea shells, gold, silver are examples of that. All that is needed for a future society of DD is to come up with the best possible form of money and have the people decide what they want. That would be a typical 95% yay vote result. With consensus like that the DD currency will be very stable and trustworthy to work with. I suggest to read up about what money really is and its history. When we start to talk about it in the future you're up to date and capable of helping to find the best solution for it.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Ween Dwijler

[kilowon]

14 minutes ago, Ween Dwijler said:

Calm down my friend. Sheepy means well and is pretty much on the ball. Sometimes a little vague, but if you read twice you get it. Lets focus on getting a constitution, a working direct democracy model and a declaration of independence. Then we can start to talk to other people and convince them with our work.

I was thinking about having a telegram group to expand the potential audience.  It is obvious that there are not enough people on here to get enough input. I do not want this to end with ideas from three or four guys. We need a wider canvas and more diverse views

[kilowon]

2 minutes ago, Ween Dwijler said:

The matter of money is not yet relevant at this point. We're now working on a constitution (which barely mentions monetary issues), a DD model that has no relation to money at all (it's an organizational thing) and a declaration of independence (also no relation to money).

 

Banks have proven to be one of the main rotten apples in the basket of tyrannical apples. And in particular central banks are a great danger for freedom. So, yes, most likely they will no longer be a part of that new system.

 

Long before banks existed, people were already using forms of money. Sea shells, gold, silver are examples of that. All that is needed for a future society of DD is to come up with the best possible form of money and have the people decide what they want. That would be a typical 95% yay vote result. With consensus like that the DD currency will be very stable and trustworthy to work with. I suggest to read up about what money really is and its history. When we start to talk about it in the future you're up to date and capable of helping to find the best solution for it.

I was just wondering about it because you mentioned people contributing  equally for a project. But I will tabled this for later. Maybe I got a little bit ahead of myself

[Ween Dwijler]

1 minute ago, kilowon said:

I was thinking about having a telegram group to expand the potential audience.  It is obvious that there are not enough people on here to get enough input. I do not want this to end with ideas from three or four guys. We need a wider canvas and more diverse views

The US constitution was written by just a couple of guys. As you already said yourself, people will join in once they see concrete things happening. For now, I don't have the feeling it would be beneficial for us to get more voices talking. Once we have the framework up, than its time to present it to a wider audience and start the discussions about it.

[Ween Dwijler]

6 minutes ago, kilowon said:

I was just wondering about it because you mentioned people contributing  equally for a project. But I will tabled this for later. Maybe I got a little bit ahead of myself

Don't worry about it. Money is a widely and long studied thing and there is an enormous amount of info available to support a quick and efficient choice for us. I've got a finance background in the grey past, so it will not be a big issue to sort it out.

 

What I can already say about it is, that it will certainly not be digital currency. None of them could pass the litmus test for money. And that is NOT an opinion, it is a simple fact. The money litmus test can not be disputed (only by idiots that don't understand what money is).

Edited November 2, 2021 by Ween Dwijler

[kilowon]

Just now, Ween Dwijler said:

Don't worry about it. Money is a widely and long studied thing and there is an enormous amount of info available to support a quick and efficient choice for us. I've got a finance background in the grey past, so it will not be a big issue to sort it out.

No problem

[kilowon]

9 minutes ago, Ween Dwijler said:

The US constitution was written by just a couple of guys. As you already said yourself, people will join in once they see concrete things happening. For now, I don't have the feeling it would be beneficial for us to get more voices talking. Once we have the framework up, than its time to present it to a wider audience and start the discussions about it.

Okay.

[Ween Dwijler]

Just now, kilowon said:

Okay.

You can help with digging up texts in English of declarations of independence? Not only the US one, it seems there are at least 50-80 of them over time from various countries.

[kilowon]

1 minute ago, Ween Dwijler said:

You can help with digging up texts in English of declarations of independence? Not only the US one, it seems there are at least 50-80 of them over time from various countries.

Will do so. But tomorrow as I am off to bed now. Goodnight and let truth guide us in our endeavour 

[MarcusOmouse]

Anyone familiar with the councils of 12?

 

Apparently its big amongst truly advanced civilizations. (According to a former boss of mine }

 

Its a bottom up system as opposed to the top down satanic system we are currently experiencing.

It involves everyone taking responsibility for themselves, their immediate community, and their environmental  and biological world in general.

 

The best thing about it, which is also its greatest drawback is  that it requires the involvement of every last incarnate soul.

 

I can happily elaborate, but maybe the bigger point is more important this time round.

 

Namely that we have failed to take responsibility for ourselves, and allowed ourselves to be ruled by demons.

[Ween Dwijler]

19 minutes ago, MarcusOmouse said:

Anyone familiar with the councils of 12?

 

Apparently its big amongst truly advanced civilizations. (According to a former boss of mine }

 

Its a bottom up system as opposed to the top down satanic system we are currently experiencing.

It involves everyone taking responsibility for themselves, their immediate community, and their environmental  and biological world in general.

 

The best thing about it, which is also its greatest drawback is  that it requires the involvement of every last incarnate soul.

 

I can happily elaborate, but maybe the bigger point is more important this time round.

 

Namely that we have failed to take responsibility for ourselves, and allowed ourselves to be ruled by demons.

Now, that's what I call a fine and excellent introduction of yourself. You are very welcome to join us here in the quest for a better system!

[Ween Dwijler]

The matter of a Declaration of Independence

 

A declaration of independence or declaration of statehood or proclamation of independence is an assertion by a polity in a defined territory that it is independent and constitutes a state. Such places are usually declared from part or all of the territory of another state or failed state, or are breakaway territories from within the larger state. Though the state from which the territory wishes to secede may regard the declaration as rebellion, which may lead to a war of independence or a constitutional settlement to resolve the crisis.

 

So far Wikipedia about it.

 

Present day environment in context of independence

 

Many of the villains responsible for the present day shit show are operating worldwide. And with the push of the WEF and others their grip worldwide will only get firmer. SME’s are in the last 2 years brought to their knees if not pushed into bankruptcy. Clearing the way for a take over of business by the big guys.

 

Because these conglomerates operate worldwide, it doesn’t make sense to strife for direct democracy only in small local communities. They would still be dependent on those conglomerates and could be easily isolated from the rest of the world by them, in an attempt to make them compliant to whatever they want.

 

Same goes for the international cooperation between the national polyarchies, as we have witnessed in the last 2 years, if not longer. The polyarchies are effectively already ruling the world, a fragmented but working world government. A local community would not be able to withstand the, possible violent, pressure of these tyrants.

 

So, my vision is to attempt, in answer to the global operating powers, a global introduction of a direct democracy system. I know, this is a very ambitious vision and it will not be an easy task to complete.

 

What helps though, is that a large part of the global population was already poor and in a bad situation, and the recent pandemic has made that even worse. The last decade has seen a growing awareness among these impoverished people of how they get pummeled and abused by the tyrannical powers of this world. Unfortunately, low level of education and the daily energy expenditure on getting the basic needs filled, prevents these people from working on a solution for their problem.

 

As I see it, their problem has now also become our problem. Although the 1^st and 2^nd world is doing still not too bad, economical and wealth wise seen, it has become a downhill ride for us. With the threat of a collapse of our distribution systems in sight, food and other goods might become scares very soon, and that most likely results in an inflation spiraling out of control. If that happens, you will soon find that your money is not buying much anymore, and you can even end up struggling to pay for your daily necessary groceries. Not a wild fantasy, it recently happened in Venezuela and survivors of the Weimar Republic (now more than 100 years old!) can tell us horrifying stories about wheelbarrows full of paper money to buy a loaf of bread.

 

Most people don’t realize this is just over the horizon, and prefer to look the other way for now. But when it arrives, we’re in the middle of it with no way out. The solution that our governments will offer is already known; all old money becomes worthless, everyone gets 100 whatever currency they come up with, and the hole circus starts anew. Rinse and repeat tactics, long term one that is.

 

What this all effectively does for you, is placing you on the same level of poverty as the poorest in the 3^rd world. Whatever wealth you had, is completely destroyed. Now those people and you are in the same boat. Reason to seek cooperation between all people of the world.

 

What are our options?

 

After literally millennia of waves of tyranny plagues, technology makes it now possible to counter the next move the tyrants have in mind. The internet makes it possible to connect everyone with everyone. This can be used as a tool to reach out to the world’s peoples and inform them about the solutions we have come up with.

 

It can start with reaching out to people you know in foreign countries and explain them the plan to introduce a worldwide direct democracy that will put an end to tyranny they have endured for so long. You can help them to understand how it works, what the benefits are, what the responsibilities are, and above all the freedom they will gain in such a system. These people can in turn approach friends and family to spread the message and so on.

 

At reaching a certain threshold (critical mass) it is time to have all pledge allegiance to the constitution of the Confederation of People of the World and support the declaration of independence. This is where things get tricky, I guess.

 

Possible pitfalls

 

If the declaration of independence aims to have a territory secede from a state, violence will be the likely answer of the rulers of that state. And violence is what we want to avoid. Besides, most people are not willing to risk their life.

 

So, I do not consider that to be a viable option.

 

What then?

 

The internet doesn’t recognize state borders, conglomerates don’t recognize them, polyarchies don’t care about them. For all the world is their oyster, why shouldn’t that be the same for the rest of us?

 

MacDonalds has restaurants all over the world, still it is one company. Facebook has offices everywhere in the world, but it is one company. I’m sure you can come up with much more examples like that.

 

So, why wouldn’t it be possible to have one global community with its members everywhere in the world? It’s NOT a country, it’s NOT a State, it’s NOT a territory, what should we call it? A federation of people? Maybe. A federation of people is just as legally valid as a federation of states.

 

A federation of people with its own constitution, which makes them a citizen of that federation. A federation that can issue a declaration of independence for her citizens. Independence from the state they live in, independence from the government that WAS imposing their tyrannical rule on them. A federation with its own constitution, its own direct democratic government system by the people and for the people, and independence from any state or country in the world. A federation with its own judicial system and laws and which takes care of their own citizens. Even its own currency is possible.

 

And if the citizens of that federation refuse to support the governments in their respective countries, those governments will loose their power over them. Without their tax money, those governments will soon be emperors without cloths.

 

It's freedom what we want, it's freedom we will get!

 

In no way I assume the above is complete, or comprehensive enough to be used as a plan of action. For that I need your help to tweak and shape it into a plan that can be used for action. I’m looking forward to discuss this with anyone that wants to contribute to the completion of it.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Ween Dwijler
corrections

[Sheepy]

Pushing back is not some easy path, but a constant struggle I like the cut of the jib of the willing, above, positive action in a time of confusion and crisis, it just goes to show the willing are out there everywhere, they just need a little faith in themselves.

[Ween Dwijler]

8 hours ago, MarcusOmouse said:

Anyone familiar with the councils of 12?

I wasn't, so looked it up. Aside of of a TV series from 2005, there are many variants of that theme. But they all have one thing in common;

 

A council of 12 ruling the rest.

 

And that is exactly what we try to prevent with direct democracy. No matter how noble the initial intentions are from each leader, they will become victim of the "Human Condition" and turn into strong hand leaders, authoritarians and eventually tyrants. If it's not in 1 generation, it will be in 2, 3, 4 or more. It will happen without exception.

 

And it's for that reason that a constitutionally guaranteed direct democracy, which can not be changed by future voting, is the best possible warranty to prevent tyranny from happening again.

 

By the people, for the people.

[Sheepy]

7 hours ago, Ween Dwijler said:

I wasn't, so looked it up. Aside of of a TV series from 2005, there are many variants of that theme. But they all have one thing in common;

 

A council of 12 ruling the rest.

 

And that is exactly what we try to prevent with direct democracy. No matter how noble the initial intentions are from each leader, they will become victim of the "Human Condition" and turn into strong hand leaders, authoritarians and eventually tyrants. If it's not in 1 generation, it will be in 2, 3, 4 or more. It will happen without exception.

 

And it's for that reason that a constitutionally guaranteed direct democracy, which can not be changed by future voting, is the best possible warranty to prevent tyranny from happening again.

 

By the people, for the people.

How are we progressing over in Thailand? have we a consensus yet?

[Ween Dwijler]

45 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

How are we progressing over in Thailand? have we a consensus yet?

You were paying attention. I think the soil is good here for consensus. Being reading a lot to extend knowledge. Don't want to re-invent the wheel. Only adjust it for modern use.

 

You've got something?

Edited November 3, 2021 by Ween Dwijler

[Sheepy]

Well, you might like to look up the Alba party, as they keep thanking you, I am always paying attention, especially when it comes to freedom and democracy. 

[Ween Dwijler]

Study --> knowledge --> understanding --> wisdom --> solution = the formula