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Direct Democracy - The development of a working model.


Ween Dwijler

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37 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

Why not, it has the makings of a working model and for all the it will never work, it does which is undeniable. Also the Swiss are always near the top of the list of happiest people. Maybe this is a factor.

Yes, the Swiss have proven that it works. Despite having partly a representative democracy. So, cutting that part out might make it even more robust. Their happiness could well have to do with the fact they are directly involved in their governments decision.

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1 hour ago, Ween Dwijler said:

Come back when that issue becomes relevant. It isn't now.

Its not just relevant, MONEY is fundamental to the creation of any new system. If you are going to lead such a discussion you should not ignore the reasons democracy hasn't worked. Several posters have pointed out negative aspects to society that undermine the creation of true democracy such as @ink who made a number of points but one specifically about the sociopaths and psychopaths that thrive in our current system. You ignored those points calling them negative and destructive and even put them on ignore. How is this behaviour any different to twitter, facebook or youtube that you complain about?

 

You dismissed my ideas of creating a free economy as communist, yet as George Orwell so poetically described in Animal Farm (ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS) Communism has been corrupted by psychopaths and sociopaths in the same way Capitalism has. Perhaps a money free society comes from purest Communism, but why can we not embrace the good ideas of both Democracy and Communism to create a better world?

 

If Direct Democracy was enacted tomorrow we would have enforced vaccination by the end of the week. The population is controlled by the msm which is owned by the elite. Any society that has Money will always create inequality and an elite. Yes DD is a great idea but without first solving the problems that got us into this mess we run the risk of creating something that is even worse than what we have now. Remember how Hitler used proportional representation to rise to power. 

 

We need to rethink the world from the bottom up and learn why societies fail and the cause of this through our history. And then strive to create a world where individual happiness is the primary goal of society. This means listening to all view points.

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24 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Its not just relevant, MONEY is fundamental to the creation of any new system. If you are going to lead such a discussion you should not ignore the reasons democracy hasn't worked.

Off topic, again. 3 times strike.

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41 minutes ago, Ween Dwijler said:

Off topic, again. 3 times strike.

Well if you had noticed most people here are under the illusion if you nonstop put-up things up that point out that our masters are not that nice, they will change their ways, as this hasn't happened in like ever, the best they can hope for is a little backing off which as I explained it might make them feel like they have won some battle with their masters but they will get less in return than they started with, so you will have to convince them that you do have an answer, because they don't actually believe anybody does and are running on a wing and a prayer. Which in a strange sort of way is acting on behalf of the very people they are said to be against. 

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35 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

Well if you had noticed most people here are under the illusion if you nonstop put-up things up that point out that our masters are not that nice, they will change their ways, as this hasn't happened in like ever, the best they can hope for is a little backing off which as I explained it might make them feel like they have won some battle with their masters but they will get less in return than they started with, so you will have to convince them that you do have an answer, because they don't actually believe anybody does and are running on a wing and a prayer. Which in a strange sort of way is acting on behalf of the very people they are said to be against. 

Bit of a rant, but I think I get your drift. We don't need to convince anybody. The work we put out will do that for us. See my next post. ;-)

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These are the first 37 articles of a concept Constitution, based upon the present Swiss constitution. I had to re-formulate here and there and that might a bit ugly. More articles will follow later.

 

Constitution of the United People of the

World (dramatic enough?)

 

We the people of planet Earth,

 

mindful of their responsibility towards all creatures on Earth,

 

resolved to create an alliance so as to strengthen liberty, democracy, independence and peace in a spirit of solidarity and openness towards the world,

 

determined to live together with mutual consideration and respect for their diversity,

 

conscious of their common achievements and their responsibility towards future generations,

 

and in the knowledge that only those who use their freedom remain free, and that the strength of a people is measured by the well-being of its weakest members,

 

adopt the following Constitution:

 

Title 1 General Provisions

 

Art. 1 The Earth Confederation

The United People of the World Confederation.

 

Art. 2 Aims

1. The UPW Confederation shall protect the liberty and rights of the people and safeguard the independence and security of the planet.

2. It shall promote the common welfare, sustainable development, internal cohesion and cultural diversity of the planet.

3. It shall ensure the greatest possible equality of opportunity among its citizens.

4. It is committed to the long term preservation of natural resources and to a just and peaceful worldwide order.

 

Art. 3 Communities

All people and communities are sovereign except to the extent that their sovereignty is limited by the UPW Constitution. They exercise all rights that are not vested in the Confederation.

 

Art. 5 Rule of law

1. All activities of the communities are based on and limited by law.

2. Community activities must be conducted in the public interest and be proportionate to the ends sought.

3. Communities and private persons shall act in good faith.

4. The Confederation and the people shall respect the law.

 

Art. 5a Subsidiarity

The principle of subsidiarity must be observed in the allocation and performance of community tasks.

 

Art. 6 Individual and collective responsibility

All individuals shall take responsibility for themselves and shall, according to their abilities, contribute to achieving the tasks of the community and society.

 

 

Title 2. Fundamental rights, Citizenship and Social Goals

 

Chapter 1 Fundamental Rights

 

Art. 7 Human dignity

Human dignity must be respected and protected.

 

Art. 8 Equality before the law

1. Every person is equal before the law.

2. No person may be discriminated against, in particular on grounds of origin, race, gender, age, language, social position, way of life, religious, ideological, or political convictions, or because of a physical, mental or psychological disability.

3. Men and women have equal rights. The law shall ensure their equality, both in law and in practice, most particularly in the family, in education, and in the workplace. Men and women have the right to equal pay for work of equal value.

4. The law shall provide for the elimination of inequalities that affect persons with disabilities.

 

Art. 9 Protection against arbitrary conduct and principle of good faith

Every person has the right to be treated by authorities in good faith and in a non-arbitrary manner.

 

Art. 10 right to life and to personal freedoms

1. Every person has the right to life. The death penalty is prohibited.

2. Every person has the right to personal liberty and in particular to physical and mental integrity and to freedom of movement.

3. Torture and any other form of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment are prohibited.

 

Art. 10a Ban on covering the face

1. No person may cover their face in public spaces or in places that are accessible to the public or where services are offered to anyone wishing to partake of them; the ban does not apply to places of worship.

2. No person may force another person to cover their face on the grounds of their sex.

3. The law shall rpovide for exceptions. These may only be justified on the grounds of health, safety, weather conditions or local customs.

 

Art. 11 Protection of children and young people

1. Children and young people have the right to the special protection of their integrity and to the encouragement of their development.

2. They may personally exercise their rights to the extent that their power of judgment allows.

 

Art. 12 Right to assistance when in need

Persons in need and unable to provide for themselves have the right to assistance and care, and to the financial means required for a decent standard of living.

 

Art. 13 Right to privacy

1. Every person has the right to privacy in their private and family life and in their home, and in relation to their mail and telecommunications.

2. Every person has the right to be protected against the misuse of their personal data.

 

Art. 14 Right to marry and to have a family

The right to marry and to have a family is guaranteed.

 

Art. 15 Freedom of religion and conscience

1. Freedom of religion and conscience is guaranteed.

2. Every person has the right to choose freely their religion or their philosophical convictions, and to profess them alone or in community with others.

3. Every person has the right to join or to belong to a religious community, and to follow religious teachings.

4. No person may be forced to join or belong to a religious community, to participate in a religious act, or to follow religious teachings.

 

Art. 16 Freedom of expression and of information

1. Freedom of expression and of information is guaranteed.

2. Every person has the right to freely form, express, and impart their opinions.

3. Every person has the right to freely receive information to gather it from generally accessible sources and to disseminate it.

 

Art. 17 Freedom of the media

1. Freedom of the press, radio and television and of other forms of dissemination of features and information by means of public telecommunications is guaranteed.

2. Censorship is prohibited.

3. The protection of sources is guaranteed.

 

Art. 18 Freedom to use any language

The freedom to use any language is guaranteed.

 

Art. 19 Right to basic education

The right to an adequate and free basic education is guaranteed.

 

Art. 20 Academic freedom

Freedom of research and teaching is guaranteed.

 

Art. 21 Freedom of artistic expression

Freedom of artistic expression is guaranteed.

 

Art. 22 Freedom of assembly

1. Freedom of assembly is guaranteed.

2. Every person has the right to organize meetings and to participate or not to participate in meetings.

 

Art. 23 Freedom of association

1. Freedom of association is guaranteed.

2. Every person has the right to form, join or belong to an association and to participate in the activities of an association.

3. No person may be compelled to join or to belong to an association.

 

Art. 24 Freedom of domicile

1. Earth citizens have the right to establish their domicile anywhere in the world.

2. They have the right to leave or to enter their domicile.

 

Art. 25 Protection against expulsion, extradition and deportation

1. Earth citizens may not be expelled from Earth or their community and may only be extradited to a a foreign authority with their consent.

2. Refugees may not be deported or extradited to a community or place in which they will be persecuted.

3. No person may be deported to a community or place in which they face the threat of torture or any other form of cruel or inhumane treatment or punishment.

 

Art. 26 guarantee of ownership

1. The right to own property is guaranteed.

2. The compulsory purchase of property and any restriction on ownership that is equivalent to compulsory purchase shall be compensated in full.

 

Art. 27 Economic freedom

1. Economic freedom is guaranteed.

2. Economic freedom includes in particular the freedom to choose an occupation as well as the freedom to pursue a private economic activity.

 

Art 28. Right to form professional associations

1. Employees, employers and their organizations have the right to join together in order to protect their interests, to form associations and to join or not to join such associations.

2. Disputes must wherever possible be resolved through negotiation or mediation.

3. Strikes and lock outs are permitted if they relate to employment relations and if they do not contravene any requirements to preserve peaceful employment relations or to conduct conciliation proceedings.

4. The law may prohibit certain categories of person from taking strike action.

 

Art. 29 General procedural guarantees

1. Every person has the right to equal and fair treatment in judicial and administrative proceedings and to have their case decided within a reasonable time.

2. Each party to a case has the right to be heard.

3. Any person who does not have sufficient means has the right to free legal advice and assistance unless their case appears to have no prospect of success. If it is necessary in order to safeguard their rights, they also have the right to free legal representation in court.

 

Art. 29A Guarantee of access to the courts

In a legal dispute, every person has the right to have their case determined by a judicial authority. The United People may by law preclude the determination by the courts of certain exceptional categories of case.

 

Art. 30 Judicial proceedings

1. Any person whose case falls to be judicially decided has the right to have their case heard by a legal constituted, competent, independent and impartial court. Ad hoc courts are prohibited.

2. Unless otherwise provided by law, any person against whom civil proceedings have been raised has the right to have their case decided by a court within the jurisdiction in which they reside.

3. Unless the law provides otherwise, court hearings and the delivery of judgments shall be in public.

 

Art. 31 Deprivation of liberty

1. No person may be deprived of their liberty other than in the circumstances and in the manner provided for by the law.

2. Any person deprived of their liberty has the right to be notified without delay and in a language they can understand of the reasons for their detention and of their rights. They must be given the opportunity to exercise their rights, in particular, the right to have their next-of-kin informed.

3. Any person in pre-trial detention has the right to be brought before a court without delay. The court decides whether the person must remain in detention or be released. Any person in pre-trial detention has the right to have their case decided within a reasonable time.

4. Any person who has been deprived of their liberty by a body other than a court has the right to have recourse to a court at any time. The court shall decide as quickly as possible on the legality of their detention.

 

Art. 32 Criminal proceedings

1. Every person is presumed innocent unti they have been found guilty by a legally enforceable judgment.

2. Every accused person has the right to be notified as quickly and comprehensively as possible of the charge brought against them. They must be given the opportunity to assert their rights to a proper defense.

3. Every convicted person has the right to have their conviction reviewed by a higher court, with the exception of cases in which the United People Supreme Court sits at first instance.

 

Art. 33 Right of petition

1. Every person has the right, without prejudice, to petition the United People.

2. The United People must acknowledge receipt of such petitions.

 

Art. 34 Political rights

1. Political rights are guaranteed.

2. The guarantee of political rights protects the freedom of the citizen to form an opinion and to give genuine expression to his or her will.

 

Art. 35 Upholding of fundamental rights

1. Fundamental rights must be upheld throughout the legal system.

2. Whoever acts on behalf of the United People is bound by fundamental rights and is under a duty to contribute to their implementation.

3. The United People shall ensure that fundamental rights, where appropriate, apply to relationships among private persons.

 

Art. 36 Restrictions on fundamental rights

1. Restrictions on fundamental rights must have a legal basis. Significant restrictions must have their basis in a United People Act. The foregoing does not apply in cases of serious and immediate danger where no other course of action is possible.

2. Restrictions on fundamental rights must be justified in the public interest or for the protection of the fundamental rights of others.

3. Any restrictions on fundamental rights must be proportionate.

4. The essence of fundamental rights is sacrosanct.

 

 

Chapter 2 Citizenship and Political Rights

 

Art. 37 Citizenship

1. Any person who is a citizen of a commune and of the world to which that commune belongs is a World Citizen.

2. No person may be given preferential treatment or suffer prejudice because of their citizenship. The foregoing does not apply to regulations on political rights in citizens’ communes and corporations or to participation in the assets thereof, unless World legislation provides otherwise.

 

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Constitution of the United People of

the World (dramatic enough?)

 

We the people of planet Earth,

 

mindful of their responsibility towards all creatures on Earth,

 

resolved to create an alliance so as to strengthen liberty, democracy, independence and peace in a spirit of solidarity and openness towards the world,

 

determined to live together with mutual consideration and respect for their diversity,

 

conscious of their common achievements and their responsibility towards future generations,

 

and in the knowledge that only those who use their freedom remain free, and that the strength of a people is measured by the well-being of its weakest members,

 

adopt the following Constitution:

 

Title 1 General Provisions

 

Art. 1 The Confederation

The people form the UPW Confederation.

 

Art. 2 Aims

1. The UPW Confederation shall protect the liberty and rights of the people and safeguard the independence and security of the planet.

2. It shall promote the common welfare, sustainable development, internal cohesion and cultural diversity of the planet.

3. It shall ensure the greatest possible equality of opportunity among its citizens.

4. It is committed to the long term preservation of natural resources and to a just and peaceful worldwide order.

 

Art. 3 Communities

All people and communities are sovereign except to the extent that their sovereignty is limited by the UPW Constitution. They exercise all rights that are not vested in the Confederation.

 

Art. 5 Rule of law

1. All activities of the communities are based on and limited by law.

2. Community activities must be conducted in the public interest and be proportionate to the ends sought.

3. Communities and private persons shall act in good faith.

4. The Confederation and the people shall respect the law.

 

Art. 5a Subsidiarity

The principle of subsidiarity must be observed in the allocation and performance of community tasks.

 

Art. 6 Individual and collective responsibility

All individuals shall take responsibility for themselves and shall, according to their abilities, contribute to achieving the tasks of the community and society.

 

 

Title 2. Fundamental rights, Citizenship and Social Goals

 

Chapter 1 Fundamental Rights

 

Art. 7 Human dignity

Human dignity must be respected and protected.

 

Art. 8 Equality before the law

1. Every person is equal before the law.

2. No person may be discriminated against, in particular on grounds of origin, race, gender, age, language, social position, way of life, religious, ideological, or political convictions, or because of a physical, mental or psychological disability.

3. Men and women have equal rights. The law shall ensure their equality, both in law and in practice, most particularly in the family, in education, and in the workplace. Men and women have the right to equal pay for work of equal value.

4. The law shall provide for the elimination of inequalities that affect persons with disabilities.

 

Art. 9 Protection against arbitrary conduct and principle of good faith

Every person has the right to be treated by authorities in good faith and in a non-arbitrary manner.

 

Art. 10 right to life and to personal freedoms

1. Every person has the right to life. The death penalty is prohibited.

2. Every person has the right to personal liberty and in particular to physical and mental integrity and to freedom of movement.

3. Torture and any other form of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment are prohibited.

 

Art. 10a Ban on covering the face

1. No person may cover their face in public spaces or in places that are accessible to the public or where services are offered to anyone wishing to partake of them; the ban does not apply to places of worship.

2. No person may force another person to cover their face on the grounds of their sex.

3. The law shall rpovide for exceptions. These may only be justified on the grounds of health, safety, weather conditions or local customs.

 

Art. 11 Protection of children and young people

1. Children and young people have the right to the special protection of their integrity and to the encouragement of their development.

2. They may personally exercise their rights to the extent that their power of judgment allows.

 

Art. 12 Right to assistance when in need

Persons in need and unable to provide for themselves have the right to assistance and care, and to the financial means required for a decent standard of living.

 

Art. 13 Right to privacy

1. Every person has the right to privacy in their private and family life and in their home, and in relation to their mail and telecommunications.

2. Every person has the right to be protected against the misuse of their personal data.

 

Art. 14 Right to marry and to have a family

The right to marry and to have a family is guaranteed.

 

Art. 15 Freedom of religion and conscience

1. Freedom of religion and conscience is guaranteed.

2. Every person has the right to choose freely their religion or their philosophical convictions, and to profess them alone or in community with others.

3. Every person has the right to join or to belong to a religious community, and to follow religious teachings.

4. No person may be forced to join or belong to a religious community, to participate in a religious act, or to follow religious teachings.

 

Art. 16 Freedom of expression and of information

1. Freedom of expression and of information is guaranteed.

2. Every person has the right to freely form, express, and impart their opinions.

3. Every person has the right to freely receive information to gather it from generally accessible sources and to disseminate it.

 

Art. 17 Freedom of the media

1. Freedom of the press, radio and television and of other forms of dissemination of features and information by means of public telecommunications is guaranteed.

2. Censorship is prohibited.

3. The protection of sources is guaranteed.

 

Art. 18 Freedom to use any language

The freedom to use any language is guaranteed.

 

Art. 19 Right to basic education

The right to an adequate and free basic education is guaranteed.

 

Art. 20 Academic freedom

Freedom of research and teaching is guaranteed.

 

Art. 21 Freedom of artistic expression

Freedom of artistic expression is guaranteed.

 

Art. 22 Freedom of assembly

1. Freedom of assembly is guaranteed.

2. Every person has the right to organize meetings and to participate or not to participate in meetings.

 

Art. 23 Freedom of association

1. Freedom of association is guaranteed.

2. Every person has the right to form, join or belong to an association and to participate in the activities of an association.

3. No person may be compelled to join or to belong to an association.

 

Art. 24 Freedom of domicile

1. Earth citizens have the right to establish their domicile anywhere in the world.

2. They have the right to leave or to enter their domicile.

 

Art. 25 Protection against expulsion, extradition and deportation

1. Earth citizens may not be expelled from Earth or their community and may only be extradited to a a foreign authority with their consent.

2. Refugees may not be deported or extradited to a community or place in which they will be persecuted.

3. No person may be deported to a community or place in which they face the threat of torture or any other form of cruel or inhumane treatment or punishment.

 

Art. 26 guarantee of ownership

1. The right to own property is guaranteed.

2. The compulsory purchase of property and any restriction on ownership that is equivalent to compulsory purchase shall be compensated in full.

 

Art. 27 Economic freedom

1. Economic freedom is guaranteed.

2. Economic freedom includes in particular the freedom to choose an occupation as well as the freedom to pursue a private economic activity.

 

Art 28. Right to form professional associations

1. Employees, employers and their organizations have the right to join together in order to protect their interests, to form associations and to join or not to join such associations.

2. Disputes must wherever possible be resolved through negotiation or mediation.

3. Strikes and lock outs are permitted if they relate to employment relations and if they do not contravene any requirements to preserve peaceful employment relations or to conduct conciliation proceedings.

4. The law may prohibit certain categories of person from taking strike action.

 

Art. 29 General procedural guarantees

1. Every person has the right to equal and fair treatment in judicial and administrative proceedings and to have their case decided within a reasonable time.

2. Each party to a case has the right to be heard.

3. Any person who does not have sufficient means has the right to free legal advice and assistance unless their case appears to have no prospect of success. If it is necessary in order to safeguard their rights, they also have the right to free legal representation in court.

 

Art. 29A Guarantee of access to the courts

In a legal dispute, every person has the right to have their case determined by a judicial authority. The United People may by law preclude the determination by the courts of certain exceptional categories of case.

 

Art. 30 Judicial proceedings

1. Any person whose case falls to be judicially decided has the right to have their case heard by a legal constituted, competent, independent and impartial court. Ad hoc courts are prohibited.

2. Unless otherwise provided by law, any person against whom civil proceedings have been raised has the right to have their case decided by a court within the jurisdiction in which they reside.

3. Unless the law provides otherwise, court hearings and the delivery of judgments shall be in public.

 

Art. 31 Deprivation of liberty

1. No person may be deprived of their liberty other than in the circumstances and in the manner provided for by the law.

2. Any person deprived of their liberty has the right to be notified without delay and in a language they can understand of the reasons for their detention and of their rights. They must be given the opportunity to exercise their rights, in particular, the right to have their next-of-kin informed.

3. Any person in pre-trial detention has the right to be brought before a court without delay. The court decides whether the person must remain in detention or be released. Any person in pre-trial detention has the right to have their case decided within a reasonable time.

4. Any person who has been deprived of their liberty by a body other than a court has the right to have recourse to a court at any time. The court shall decide as quickly as possible on the legality of their detention.

 

Art. 32 Criminal proceedings

1. Every person is presumed innocent unti they have been found guilty by a legally enforceable judgment.

2. Every accused person has the right to be notified as quickly and comprehensively as possible of the charge brought against them. They must be given the opportunity to assert their rights to a proper defense.

3. Every convicted person has the right to have their conviction reviewed by a higher court, with the exception of cases in which the United People Supreme Court sits at first instance.

 

Art. 33 Right of petition

1. Every person has the right, without prejudice, to petition the United People.

2. The United People must acknowledge receipt of such petitions.

 

Art. 34 Political rights

1. Political rights are guaranteed.

2. The guarantee of political rights protects the freedom of the citizen to form an opinion and to give genuine expression to his or her will.

 

Art. 35 Upholding of fundamental rights

1. Fundamental rights must be upheld throughout the legal system.

2. Whoever acts on behalf of the United People is bound by fundamental rights and is under a duty to contribute to their implementation.

3. The United People shall ensure that fundamental rights, where appropriate, apply to relationships among private persons.

 

Art. 36 Restrictions on fundamental rights

1. Restrictions on fundamental rights must have a legal basis. Significant restrictions must have their basis in a United People Act. The foregoing does not apply in cases of serious and immediate danger where no other course of action is possible.

2. Restrictions on fundamental rights must be justified in the public interest or for the protection of the fundamental rights of others.

3. Any restrictions on fundamental rights must be proportionate.

4. The essence of fundamental rights is sacrosanct.

 

 

Chapter 2 Citizenship and Political Rights

 

Art. 37 Citizenship

1. Any person who is a citizen of a commune and of the world to which that commune belongs is a World Citizen.

2. No person may be given preferential treatment or suffer prejudice because of their citizenship. The foregoing does not apply to regulations on political rights in citizens’ communes and corporations or to participation in the assets thereof, unless World legislation provides otherwise.

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15 minutes ago, Ween Dwijler said:

Art. 15 Freedom of religion and conscience

 

1. Freedom of religion and conscience is guaranteed.

2. Every person has the right to choose freely their religion or their philosophical convictions, and to profess them alone or in community with others.

3. Every person has the right to join or to belong to a religious community, and to follow religious teachings.

4. No person may be forced to join or belong to a religious community, to participate in a religious act, or to follow religious teachings.

 

 

With regards to article 15 and freedom for anyone to practice their religion. Would the rights of Satanists and members of any secret societies be protected?

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

With regards to article 15 and freedom for anyone to practice their religion. Would the rights of Satanists and members of any secret societies be protected?

 

 

 

Personally I don't have any problem with that. This is just a concept and I guess that at some point the final version has to go up for voting. What do you think about it?

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6 minutes ago, Ween Dwijler said:

Personally I don't have any problem with that. This is just a concept and I guess that at some point the final version has to go up for voting. What do you think about it?

 

It's a dilemma because if secret societies are allowed, and Satanists, then members of any person in office or elected representative could be a member, and put the interests and the agenda of their religion or secret society before the interests of the public. The agenda would be performed secretly, together with everything else, like protection oaths, secret handshakes and hand signs, etc.

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

It's a dilemma because if secret societies are allowed, and Satanists, then members of any person in office or elected representative could be a member, and put the interests and the agenda of their religion or secret society before the interests of the public. The agenda would be performed secretly, together with everything else, like protection oaths, secret handshakes and hand signs, etc.

 

 

 

Yes, that could be a real issue. However, as I envision it, there would be no such thing as a government or office where LT civil servants reside. I was thinking about having people assigned or chosen to fulfill a task or manage a project only for the duration of it. For example; a community votes to build a road locally. Someone of that community volunteers or gets chosen to manage that project on behalf of the village for its duration. When the road is finished, that person has to give account of the project. Any irregularities and they will have a problem with the rest of the community.

 

Also, you talk about an elected representative. In a direct democracy there are no elected representative. Except like in the above mentioned kind of cases. But then they are not a representative but the project manager, responsible for staying within the budget and get the best possible result for it.

 

It illustrates clearly the difference between a representative democracy and a direct democracy. A member of the House in Washington DC can hardly be checked by the people who voted for him. Jim from West Oregon simply can't follow what his representative is doing over there.

In a community all happens locally and the members can see on a daily basis what is going on. If anyone thinks something is wrong, they will bring it forward right there. There is almost no chance someone can push the agenda of his secret society unnoticed.

 

Another aspect to consider is that in the example of the community decision, a budget is given. Everybody contributes his/her part. No loans taken. So, if the money is gone but the road is not there or only partly, the project manager will surely have a big problem with peers within the community. It's a matter of proper organizing things, I guess.

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On 11/1/2021 at 8:28 PM, Ween Dwijler said:

Are we going to allow political parties to exist within a DD system? Reading up on Switzerland, which by the way also has partly a representative democracy, these parties can create a problem by pushing their demands into the voting system.

 

If no political parties are allowed within the DD system, that problem of possible abuse would be non existent. And it also seems to indicate that any form of representative democracy must be avoided, even if it is only for a little part of the total system.

 

So, how are proposals brought forward in such a system? Can anyone propose something, no matter hoe crazy it is? Or will there be certain criteria, a kind of filter, through which the proposal has to go before it can be put up for voting?

 

I think that every individual should have the right to launch a proposal. It first has to go through a local voting round before it can be brought into the next level. And so on until world level , or as far as needed for that particular proposal. There is no need for a local issue to be brought into a higher level.

 

An other safety valve in DD can be the principle of consensus. One could say that a 95% yay or nay vote constitutes consensus and will therefor be accepted. Below that threshold, the proposal is simply not found viable and taken of the table. For example; the voting is needed for the build of a new nuclear power-plant that serves a whole nation. 65% yay, 30% nay, 5% abstained. Although a majority is for the build, the consensus threshold of 95% is not reached, so it will not happen. This prevents the will of the majority to overrule the voice of the minority as a first advantage of that rule, but it also prevents decisions that might be harmful for us in the longer run. Stupid decisions can be prevented that way.

Maybe not totally taken off the table, but refined to take into account the concern of the nay. then sent back to the first step of the process(village level) to restart all over again. Maybe if it fails again then it is taken off the table completly

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22 hours ago, ink said:

 

I am not 'knocking' the concept of this thread but you have to consider HOW you can do it and IF the 'mass' will join you?

 

Currently, from this thread, it seems to be moving too fast without addressing the base problems. It could be done in a 'free' realm but we are not in that ....... BUT it could still be done.

 

So lets take them one by one .... If you cannot use the current internet, how will you bypass that challenge without being swiftly and violently shut down?

Personally, I am for a small tribe system, not national or international. I do not actually believe in that. I was born before the age of the internet and until around 15 years ago did not have regular access to the internet. So I know how to connect without it on a local level. I am a member of the local freedom cell network and we meet up all the time. Now whether the globalist death cult will not crush us the moment we attempt to go global, well, i am 100 percent sure they will try. And they may well succeed. But that in no way means we should not try. I rather die trying than sit on the fence and still die anyway. They are coming for us whether we try or not. Their plan is global depopulation, with only around 500 million people left, that means that 7.5 billions of us is up for extermination. My expectation for this to succeed is that it has to be trials out by small group of people all over the world to ironed out the kinks and then be allow to spread organically. It cannot be impose as we do not have the manpower to do so, and even if we did, it would be antithesis of what we are trying to achieve. There is only two option left, either we succeed or the death cult does. The death cult will not stop now when they are the closest they have ever been to their goals, and ironically, in many ways, we, as awaken soul for lack of a better term, are the closest we ever been to success. As they say, the night is darkest just before dawn.

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31 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

This petition system shows clearly why representative democracy doesn't work.

 

1. The politicians make decisions the public don't want.

2. Make a big theater around it, cause utter confusion with schizo press releases

3. Public finally file petition, not enough know about it so takes ages to get the 100K signatures

4. And than they finally might debate it in parliament, which can take another year or so

5. In 2023 (way after the shit storm is gone) they decide to grant the request, but..eh...the reason is gone now.

 

In a direct democracy the politicians don't exist, and therefor can't make such stupid decisions. Instead the people have to vote it in place. However, among the people are enough with common sense and would vote nay for measures like that. All this wouldn't have happened in a DD.

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3 minutes ago, kilowon said:

Personally, I am for a small tribe system, not national or international. I do not actually believe in that. I was born before the age of the internet and until around 15 years ago did not have regular access to the internet. So I know how to connect without it on a local level. I am a member of the local freedom cell network and we meet up all the time. Now whether the globalist death cult will not crush us the moment we attempt to go global, well, i am 100 percent sure they will try. And they may well succeed. But that in no way means we should not try. I rather die trying than sit on the fence and still die anyway. They are coming for us whether we try or not. Their plan is global depopulation, with only around 500 million people left, that means that 7.5 billions of us is up for extermination. My expectation for this to succeed is that it has to be trials out by small group of people all over the world to ironed out the kinks and then be allow to spread organically. It cannot be impose as we do not have the manpower to do so, and even if we did, it would be antithesis of what we are trying to achieve. There is only two option left, either we succeed or the death cult does. The death cult will not stop now when they are the closest they have ever been to their goals, and ironically, in many ways, we, as awaken soul for lack of a better term, are the closest we ever been to success. As they say, the night is darkest just before dawn.

I wouldn't get dragged down to that level where we are just pointing out we are all dead anyway, we are not actually capable of doing anything about it. Not a good path in my opinion I can see it all over the place. See what I just did?

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3 hours ago, Diesel said:

You conduct yourself in the same way any wanna be dictator does. Stifle discussion, ignore and try to minimise any comments that do not fit your agenda. 

 

A bit harsh matey, he said he would come up with his own plan and has shown it, how does it look for all of it?

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11 minutes ago, kilowon said:

Personally, I am for a small tribe system, not national or international. I do not actually believe in that. I was born before the age of the internet and until around 15 years ago did not have regular access to the internet. So I know how to connect without it on a local level. I am a member of the local freedom cell network and we meet up all the time. Now whether the globalist death cult will not crush us the moment we attempt to go global, well, i am 100 percent sure they will try. And they may well succeed. But that in no way means we should not try. I rather die trying than sit on the fence and still die anyway. They are coming for us whether we try or not. Their plan is global depopulation, with only around 500 million people left, that means that 7.5 billions of us is up for extermination. My expectation for this to succeed is that it has to be trials out by small group of people all over the world to ironed out the kinks and then be allow to spread organically. It cannot be impose as we do not have the manpower to do so, and even if we did, it would be antithesis of what we are trying to achieve. There is only two option left, either we succeed or the death cult does. The death cult will not stop now when they are the closest they have ever been to their goals, and ironically, in many ways, we, as awaken soul for lack of a better term, are the closest we ever been to success. As they say, the night is darkest just before dawn.

The reasoning of the guy you're replying to, is like a drunk elephant. On one hand he is constantly going about "They're after us, they want to kill us, etc" and acts like there is no way out. If others try to find a way out he is going "It won't work, so many obstacles, I tried it before, 15 years ago (when this kind of shit show wasn't there!) and it didn't work, bla bla". No surprise there.

 

What you say is right. You can sit, do nothing and get killed in the process, feeling miserable to the last breath, or... stand up, take action, do something and fight back. Yes, you might be killed in the fight, but at least you die standing like a man, not on your knees like a broken slave.

 

That's why his project not worked. Who is going to take advice of such character?

 

And indeed, it seems that this might be the right time to move with a counter action. There is now much more support among the people for an alternative. Many, even the ones that took the vaccine, noticed the schizophrenic propaganda they use to bully the people into compliance.

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4 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

A bit harsh matey, he said he would come up with his own plan and has shown it, how does it look for all of it?

I think he was to occupied with his little quarrel to see what this topic is really about. People like that come with the territory, I guess. Do I say that right?

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On 11/1/2021 at 9:26 PM, ink said:

May I ask how you intend to :

 

  • Use the internet/mobiles when this can be cut off from you rather simply (in the UK there are only 8 ISP's).
  • Get the mass to interact with your DD when they have shown themselves to be utterly based within fear and willing to do whatever media tells them.
  • On that .... how will you change the main stream media .... how would you stop it when you have zero control of it.
  • Your new DD will be made a 'terrorist group' and outlawed .... how will you overcome this.
  • Those you wish to remove will not walk away quietly .... they will burn this place before losing control .... you have plans to 'peacefully' remove the 'keys' from them.
  • 15-18% of 'humans' are born sociopaths or psychopaths .... how will you deal with them (you are talking about over 1 billion).
  • If you won't deal with them (point above) then you will return to this current point in time .... so are you happy to remove over 1 billion.
  • Has the vote of an imbecile the same right as all others .... if people are 'paid' (in whatever form .... their labour lessened etc) do those votes still count.
  • If you use computer systems to 'vote' .... how do you trust those who made the system.

 

This is just a few quick and simple considerations .... it can go on and on!

 

All this is a 'nice' thought experiment (I did the same about 15 years ago and got things down to one penny on all goods to pay for all which was required, no other tax) but to do it peacefully just will not happen.

They will not let go that simply and the mass will not join you.

In my model, there would be no media house at all. The only way to stop it is to get people to ignore it like most of us do. Is that possible? Maybe. I have my doubt personally.

There is no way to overcome being made a terrorist group by the death cult. This is something we have to accept will happens. Hell, in many ways, we are already being made into terrorists. They have been pushing the narrative that human is bad for the planet. They are already turning truth-seekers like us into terrorists by calling us anti vaxxers,  covid deniers and many other terms. In fact we should embraced this as we are in a sense terrorist to their system as they feared us. Of course, we are not blowing up building but we are blowing up their lies and deceit. But the expectation by then is that we would have reach critical mass where it would be impossible to completely crush us all.

Those we wish to remove are a tiny minority and they are too cowardly to burn anything down. Look around, anytime a dictator falls, they rarely burn down anything. Instead they scrambled and hide. They have no keys other  the people they control, and if the control system fails, most will desert the system. I have seen this in my own country last year, for 43 years we were under the thumb of a dictator and his minions, even when so called democracy was restored the dictator kept power through the ballot box. And during that 40 years, people fought, in different ways, against that system. Some violently while others choose the political route. Many died, some were imprisoned and tortured, some were exile while others had all their properties taken from them and some were forced to fled. But the opposition never gave up and slowly and surely chipped away at what at one time seemed an invincible system with its brutal army/militia and police system. Some in opposition felt by the wayside, seduced by the monetary offer or just grew tired and gave up. But many stuck to it and last year inflicted a complete defeat to that dictatorship, winning the election by a landslide. Many feared that the dictatorship would not accept the result and try another military coup. Instead they just melted away in the night and a peaceful transition of power took place. Of course, the new government itself is subservient to the globalist agenda but that was just a way to illustrate my point that the power that be are nothing more than coward.

I personally do not subscribe to the idea that Man are psychopath. I think the system makes them so. I am of course not talking about the globalist death cult itself, the head of the pyramid, who are definitely psychopaths, but the regular folks who joined the army and police, politicians and judiciaries and the system bureaucracy. I believe if the system falls, they can be rehabilitated. Like some are currently being rehabilitated in my country. And if they cannot be, then they will have to face the consequence of their actions.

What is an imbecile? Are people imbecile because the system make them so or are they born that way? Will there be any imbeciles without the globalist death cult system in place. I expect there will not be. But i may be wrong. But i rather think i am correct.

Without the current system in place, Technology would be our servant not our master. We have to established a system where there is no reward in deceit.

 

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29 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

I wouldn't get dragged down to that level where we are just pointing out we are all dead anyway, we are not actually capable of doing anything about it. Not a good path in my opinion I can see it all over the place. See what I just did?

We are all dead anyway. we will all die. It is inevitable. I do not fear death and no one should. But more to your point, we are all dead anyway if we do not stand up and reverse this course. Do you seriously think the death cult is not going to actioned on their plans if we just shrugged and keep our heads down? They have been working on this for millennia, and they can almost taste it. There only two way out of this, they win or we win. And we will not win by pretending it is not happening

 

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On 11/1/2021 at 10:04 PM, Golden Retriever said:

 

 

Who do you have in mind as "really great thinkers of our time, from relevant disciplines in the sciences"

 

I say when it comes to science we need to start from zero. The whole things is a mess and now nothing more than another propaganda arm of the death cult. Plus half of what science bring us is just materialistic B.S. Pointless to replace this consumerism culture with another one. We need to go back to basics first.

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