Direct Democracy - The development of a working model.

[Ween Dwijler]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

 

 

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides
By the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men"

Ezekiel 25:17

No one really knows what to do about psychopaths, its been a problem throughout history

Psychopathy is partly a matter of genes, so it's a birth defect in a way. The social environment in which the psychopath grows up is responsible for further enhancing it or not. It's thought that about 1% of the population is made up of psychopaths. If you add narcissism and sociopathy to it, that percentage goes up quite a bit. They are actually quite easily detectable, since you will find them in any kind of occupation or activity that needs a lack of empathy or moral, to function succesfully.

 

As @ink already suggested, a test with MRI (because psychopathy is a biological detectable defect that can be seen on a MRI scan) or the specially designed tests to detect it in someone's personality, can wash them out and that knowledge used to restrict them from certain positions to avoid future problems. It is a bit tricky to do that though. These people also have the right to full freedom, and restricting them would infringe on that. But, mechanisms could be thought out to include them completely but prevents their psychopathic traits to cause harm (to the suggested principle of "allow no harm").

[Ween Dwijler]

11 hours ago, kilowon said:

To be fair, we already have this now, and worse.

Yeah, so why make it worse by removing the little protection against bestiality that is left? Makes no sense.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Ween Dwijler

[Ween Dwijler]

To the matter of money (monetary system).

 

A barter system can only work with an extensive and comprehensive price system in place. It would be tedious and very time consuming for businesses to operate with it. I think it is not practical.

 

Money has been used since the dawn of human civilization for trade. As a medium of exchange it must be widely accepted in exchange for goods and services.

 

As a unit of account, money allows for a meaningful interpretation of prices, costs, and profits, so that an entity can monitor its own performance. Take as example; "Yesterday I earned X units, today I earned Y units." The difference between X and Y tells you of you're improving on your income or not.

 

Money also functions as a store of value, that allows you to retain purchasing power into the future, and is the function of the asset that can be saved, retrieved and exchanged at a later time, and be predictable useful when retrieved. The longest lasting store of value over the millennia has been gold.

 

So, money must be accepted as a medium of exchange, a unit of account and a store of value. There are 3 types of money; fiat money, representative money, and commodity money.

 

Fiat money is a type of money that has no intrinsic value ore a use value of its own, and derives its value solely from the trust that people place on it.

 

Representative money is any medium of exchange, often printed on paper, that represents something of value, but has little or no value of its own (intrinsic value). Genuine represetantive money must have something of intrinsic value supporting the face value.

 

Commodity money is money whose value comes from a commodity of which it is made. Commodity money has value or use in itself (intrinsic value) as well as its value in buying goods and services. Gold, silver, copper, salt, shells are some of the examples of commodity money in the past and even today.

 

In an economic and monetary system that uses commodity money, there is no need for a central bank, merchant banks or commercial banks. Once the basics are determined in the constitution, there is also no need for governmental involvement any longer. Debt or credit can easily be controlled by the prohibition of charging interest in any form (In medieval times the Christian church prohibited the charging of interest, and today it is still prohibited within the Islamic world).

 

In such a monetary system, based on commodity money, a relatively simple price system can be used for the valuation and distribution of goods and services and the factors of production.

 

It also answers the question why Bitcoin and the likes can not, and should not be used in a future global economy. It is even worse than fiat money, in that it is completely intangible and could literally dissolve in thin air in seconds. Fiat and representative moneys both lay the base for monetary manipulation, in which its value is completely determined by a small group, causing inflation, deflation and the endless issue of loans, which in itself is a root problem today. Monetary enslavement.

 

So, my proposal is to use gold and/or silver as money. That idea is even strengthened by the simple facts that countries like China and Russia (to name a few big ones) seem to have the same idea about gold; these are the ones that are the largest buyers of real, tangible gold (not the silly ETF's on Gold) for a reason. They know all too well fro mthe past experiences they had, that when everything collapses, gold is the remaining medium of exchange that is everywhere accepted.

 

@DieselAnd that is very visible in the Asian realm, where people still put their most trust in gold. If they have money left at the end of the month, they buy gold. Practically everywhere in S.E. Asia and India you can find a gold shop on every street corner, where you can buy/sell tangible gold in bar or jewelry form, whole day long. It tells the story of gold.

 

In conclusion;

 

Gold as commodity money, anchored in the constitution as the medium of exchange, unit of account, and store of value. A central service organisation will be responsible for creating and controlling coinage of gold in a variety of denominations that are usable as daily medium of exchange in trade. (this can be worked out in more detail in a later stage).

 

An electronic system to use for payments or transfers should also be prohibited, due to its tracking and tracing capabilties, and the chance of creating debts by loans. There are other, viable ways to facilitate long distance transfers, such as the ones used in present day shadow banking systems.

 

Thank you.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Ween Dwijler

[Sheepy]

5 hours ago, Ween Dwijler said:

Makes no sense.

Did it ever? 

[Alba]

On 11/1/2021 at 2:21 PM, Ween Dwijler said:

Yeah, in theory this all starts actually at family level as a possible smallest unit. Locally, they have here a similar kind of system. The village comes together ones a month (or when needed) to discuss certain initiatives and ideas. They work their way to a consensus and the head of the village (elected once in 4 years) gets the go. If he screws it up, he can forget his next term. He, in his turn, will represent the village in the group of villages (a tambon is divided in several moo's), called tambon, where the larger scale decisions are made. It is the principle of DD, however, on provincial and national level it is the good old representative democracy with the obligatory corruption and machinations.

 

This system is similar to where I live. It is social housing but it is a co operative. This is different from a housing association in that the tenants have the say on policies ,management and decisions. There are a small office team but it is the co operative who have make the decisions. This is done by asking everyone what they would like , voting and surveys. Like the village you mention it is similar and people get the chance to be in different posts for example, chairperson, treasurer, admin,groups, sub groups and more. It works and there are a few co ops out there although not enough! Scandinavian countries have more and the good thing is that they are assured tenancies so they can be passed to family. In the future I hope all social housing will be like this, not only because its Democratic but there will less pressure for people to buy homes as its nigh impossible here to get on the property ladder unless you are a high earner or privileged  so it will give young people a chance at least.   https://www.communityledhomes.org.uk/what-housing-co-operative

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Ween Dwijler said:

A barter system can only work with an extensive and comprehensive price system in place.

 

I disagree ... any system that individuals agree upon is 'money'!

 

To illustrate such .... if I create a website (which I could) which allows people to interact via barter then no 'price system' is required.

 

People decide the price (or 'money') they wish.

So .... I make a site which allows person A to offer 10kg of their harvested veg for someone to come and fix the leak in their roof.

Person B .... cannot fix a roof but wants the veg and has a still going spare.

Person C .... wants a still but only can offer entertainment via performance of a play.

Person D .... would like the performance but has only an original paper copy of 1984 to offer.

 

I come in and want the book, also I can fix the roof .... so I complete the circle and all get that which they wish without ANY so called money.

And no government or authority involved. (there are security issues with this but those would not be a problem to work out)

 

The psychopath issue .... this would need to be done step by step, else the 'mass' would not allow it.

You need to get the 'mass' onboard.

 

Best and simplest way to do this is via prisons.

 

The prison population is mixed of psychopaths, who cannot be changed, and those who should not be forced to interact with the psychopaths.

So to promote to the 'mass' that redeeming the prison pop requires the testing of all within the system .... so as to segregate the psychopaths who will and do cause near all of the harm from those who could and would be redeemed .... is the way forward.

Then after this works (which it would) you promote the testing of all members of parliament, banking institutions, police and corporations.

 

You remove all who are 'defective' (what is done with them would need to be considered).

 

Once you have moved, step by step, from the prison population to the political parasites/police and career institutionalised civil servants .... then you begin to rebuild with those who have empathy.

 

Just some shit lol

Edited November 5, 2021 by ink

[Diesel]

15 hours ago, Ween Dwijler said:

A barter system can only work with an extensive and comprehensive price system in place. It would be tedious and very time consuming for businesses to operate with it. I think it is not practical.

Did you know transactions happen everyday on Barter? It's already an established method for businesses

 

 

[Ween Dwijler]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

Did you know transactions happen everyday on Barter? It's already an established method for businesses

 

 

So is the use of money, but on a slightly larger scale.

[Ween Dwijler]

8 hours ago, ink said:

 

I disagree ... any system that individuals agree upon is 'money'!

 

To illustrate such .... if I create a website (which I could) which allows people to interact via barter then no 'price system' is required.

 

People decide the price (or 'money') they wish.

So .... I make a site which allows person A to offer 10kg of their harvested veg for someone to come and fix the leak in their roof.

Person B .... cannot fix a roof but wants the veg and has a still going spare.

Person C .... wants a still but only can offer entertainment via performance of a play.

Person D .... would like the performance but has only an original paper copy of 1984 to offer.

 

I come in and want the book, also I can fix the roof .... so I complete the circle and all get that which they wish without ANY so called money.

And no government or authority involved. (there are security issues with this but those would not be a problem to work out)

 

The psychopath issue .... this would need to be done step by step, else the 'mass' would not allow it.

You need to get the 'mass' onboard.

 

Best and simplest way to do this is via prisons.

 

The prison population is mixed of psychopaths, who cannot be changed, and those who should not be forced to interact with the psychopaths.

So to promote to the 'mass' that redeeming the prison pop requires the testing of all within the system .... so as to segregate the psychopaths who will and do cause near all of the harm from those who could and would be redeemed .... is the way forward.

Then after this works (which it would) you promote the testing of all members of parliament, banking institutions, police and corporations.

 

You remove all who are 'defective' (what is done with them would need to be considered).

 

Once you have moved, step by step, from the prison population to the political parasites/police and career institutionalised civil servants .... then you begin to rebuild with those who have empathy.

 

Just some shit lol

People abandonded bartering in favor of the use of money for economic transactions for a reason. That reason you described above; when person B, or C, or D not exists, the chain is broken, no deal to make. Waiting with the repair until finally someone shows up that can repair and wants one of the offered items, is with a leaking roof not handy. It can be good for business though, because after a couple of days rain with a leaky roof, that person probably needs new carpet, new ceilings, and who knows what more.

 

With money the problem could be solved quickly. There might be 10 repairmen around, none of them wanting 1984 paper back, neither a still or enterntainment services. any of them could do the job right away for money. Bartering is just not practical and too cumbersome in real life.

 

Read my money proposal above, and you will see that no government is involved, no central banks, no merchant or commercial banks. The only thing needed is a service organization that ensures the pureness of the gold or silver money used.

 

Psychopathy

I agree with you that a solution for that should be introduced slowly, step by step.

 

Actually, the relative percentage of psychopaths within a prison population is lower than in open society, less than 0.5%, while overal it is 1%. As you know from the Peter Principle, it's the incompetent criminals that end up in prisons, the competent ones (and those are by definition psychopaths) get hardly caught.

 

It is much more efficient to focus on the family environment, in making parents aware of the impact their behavior has on their children. Although psychopathy can be considered as a kind of birth defect, it is not written in stone that the psychopathical traits come out later in life. Psychopathy is actually an evolutionary matter, meaning that the genes responsible for it developed as a reaction to the environment. There are circumstances in which the lack of empathy and emotions is beneficial for the organism. Highly abusive parents can be such an environment.

 

The "extinction" of psychopathy is probably an Utopian dream. But I think that the best way to go is, catch the psychopathy in the earliest possible stage of a childs life, and coach the family (environment) in bringing the child up to avoid triggering of the psychopathic traits. In a way, we all have psychopathy in us, but most of us manage to keep it in check, or don't see it triggered in their upbringing.

 

I think for this issue one needs a lot of empathy, the type that goes deeper than just "I'm sorry for your loss". True empathy is the combination of compassion and understanding. How deep one's empathy goes, depends a lot on one's ability for compassion.

 

This is also why I'm not a proponent of violent revolutions. It will only create or trigger the psychopatic tyrants of tomorrow, achieving exactly that what we try to remove from society. Tyrants and their terror.

 

As a side note; from above you can easily distill the reason why it's certain bloodlines going back for millennia, that produce the tyrants, over and over again. Not a conspiracy or alien lizards, just tyrannical families that breed psychopaths. A vicious circle. You really think that Boris had warm and intens loving parents that only with the utmost reluctance let him fly from the nest into the hard and cold world? anyone who believes that story, send me $ 10, and I'll send you even more fantastic fairytales.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Ween Dwijler

[Ween Dwijler]

11 hours ago, Alba said:

 

This system is similar to where I live. It is social housing but it is a co operative. This is different from a housing association in that the tenants have the say on policies ,management and decisions. There are a small office team but it is the co operative who have make the decisions. This is done by asking everyone what they would like , voting and surveys. Like the village you mention it is similar and people get the chance to be in different posts for example, chairperson, treasurer, admin,groups, sub groups and more. It works and there are a few co ops out there although not enough! Scandinavian countries have more and the good thing is that they are assured tenancies so they can be passed to family. In the future I hope all social housing will be like this, not only because its Democratic but there will less pressure for people to buy homes as its nigh impossible here to get on the property ladder unless you are a high earner or privileged  so it will give young people a chance at least.   https://www.communityledhomes.org.uk/what-housing-co-operative

We can never be 100% sure about something, but I suspect that after introduction of a good DD system, the social cohesion will increase considerably, and as a result there will be much less need for housing co-operations. Assuming that on top of that a good DD system is much, much cheaper for the people than the present expensive maintenance of the tyrannical order, the change to own a house for oneself will be a lot higher.

With a considerable lower taxation (if any) people will have almost full control over the fruits of their labor.

[BlueSky]

Tom Barnett mayoral update:

 

 

[Ween Dwijler]

13 minutes ago, BlueSky said:

Tom Barnett mayoral update:

 

 

Do I understand it correctly this guy wants to be elected into the existing system?

[Diesel]

 

"A Psychopath is born a Sociopath is made"

 

 

[Ween Dwijler]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

 

"A Psychopath is born a Sociopath is made"

 

 

Excellent find, Diesel! And that's how it is. I didn't want to get into sociopathy and narcissism to keep things simple for readers. This video takes the 3 worst ASD's in it. But....watch how the interviewer really has trouble to accept this at the end, and rather prefers to stop the talk than hear more. Understandable reaction, because dealing with psychopaths, sociopaths and narsissists is very unpleasant.

 

As you could hear and see, she also confirms that psychopaths are born that way. I think that an upbringing to counter the psychopathic inclination of a child can prevent the worst, but it will not prevent it completely. However, in a society where there is no need for the psychopathic character, i.e. no need for lack of emotions and empathy, the psychopathic gene can eventually on the long run be bred out or made inactive in the human genome. It's a very long term process with no guarantee of success.

 

Great find! I would have given you a thanks too if it were allowed.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Ween Dwijler

[Ween Dwijler]

Something positive - at first it looked impossible but now it is reality. Cleaning up the plastic in the oceans. These guys will work on follow up solutions to improve the system. But most important of all is, that they started to do something, instead of procrastinating about it.

 

It all started with an idea. Then they made a plan. And the plan became reality by just doing it.

 

Let it be an example to us all.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Ween Dwijler

[Ethel]

On 11/5/2021 at 6:04 AM, Ween Dwijler said:

There is a lot of good thinking going on here already. I have the idea that we're stimulating each other to get the best out of ourselves this way. Which is very positive and defies the opinion of some people that there is no hope for the future.

 

If this is directed at me, DON'T. I never said there was no hope for the future, so don't even go there. 

[Ween Dwijler]

20 hours ago, Ethel said:

 

If this is directed at me, DON'T. I never said there was no hope for the future, so don't even go there. 

It is directed to all who stimulate each other to get the best out of ourselves. Did you think you're one of them?

[Crypto777]

On 11/1/2021 at 11:40 AM, Ween Dwijler said:

Hello everyone,

 

With the growing discourse in the world about how our societies are run by factual tyrants, and the launch of the Great Reset (a dystopian plan of the WEF and its members), this might be the right moment in time to work on a model for the people and by the people. A model that no longer can be hijacked by devious tyrannical elements of our societies. A model that, when implemented, will guarantee each persons inalienable and inviolable rights on complete freedom.

 

I would like to invite anyone who has a sensible and substantial contribution to make to this model, to speak up his/her mind.

 

Simple rules:

- Keep an open mind to anyone's ideas or contribution

- Nobody has the right to shut others up

- Keep discussions civilized and to the point

-Above all, do not be afraid to speak your mind!

Im quite certain that your proposal wouldnt even be acceptable in this forum for many reasons.

[Sheepy]

30 minutes ago, Crypto777 said:

Im quite certain that your proposal wouldnt even be acceptable in this forum for many reasons.

I like to watch them wallow in self-pity and are convinced they are feckrd.,I guess most of them are past the stage where they can be dynamic. Just goes to show how much they have been worked on by the Westminster party.

[Ween Dwijler]

9 hours ago, Sheepy said:

I like to watch them wallow in self-pity and are convinced they are feckrd.,I guess most of them are past the stage where they can be dynamic. Just goes to show how much they have been worked on by the Westminster party.

Call the present shit show the final exam of the spin doctors. It looks like passed summa cum laude.

[Ween Dwijler]

10 hours ago, Crypto777 said:

Im quite certain that your proposal wouldnt even be acceptable in this forum for many reasons.

Sure you are. I can even give you more than the many reasons, the ones you hadn't thought of.

[Sheepy]

It seems they have run out of steam and excuses; all hail the Westminster party then, they will fix it for us no doubt. If all else fails maybe even a bit of divine intervention, although I don't remember either of them fixing much in the past.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Sheepy

[Ween Dwijler]

This topic is closed due to lack of interest. Which is telling for the "community". Feel free to post whatever you want, knock yourself out. My energy will go to things worth while.

[Sheepy]

6 hours ago, Ween Dwijler said:

This topic is closed due to lack of interest. Which is telling for the "community". Feel free to post whatever you want, knock yourself out. My energy will go to things worth while.

Like you said I am a nice bloke, how frustrating is it, when they are forever being driven against democracy by the very people who have trademarked it as an art of control. Not so easy then.

[Diesel]

14 hours ago, Ween Dwijler said:

This topic is closed due to lack of interest. Which is telling for the "community". Feel free to post whatever you want, knock yourself out. My energy will go to things worth while.

Without a more fundamental look at society and the things that undermine democracy such as MONEY DD had no substance. Also the way you conducted the discussion isolated many people because of your EGO.