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The homosexual elite and the velvet mafia


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8 minutes ago, RobSS said:

I'm also not lacking in courage to speak out.

 

You don't have have the courage to speak about who is pulling the strings. Stop lying.

 

I have dissented on this forum more than most. I have literally helped normalize pattern recognition within certain spheres, so spare me the bullshit.

Edited by EnigmaticWorld
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1 minute ago, RobSS said:

 

We're not being destroyed. There is still a long way to go before this crisis plays out, but we are not being destroyed, and we will never be destroyed.

Psalm 23

A psalm of David.

The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
    He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
    he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
    for his name’s sake.
Even though I walk
    through the darkest valley,[a]
I will fear no evil,
    for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
    they comfort me.

You prepare a table before me
    in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
    my cup overflows.
Surely your goodness and love will follow me
    all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord
    forever.

 

You might not be. I'm white though. They don't want me as part of their slave race, nor do I want to be part of it.

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Just now, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

You don't have have the courage to speak about who is pulling the strings. Stop lying.

 

 

Why should I lie about that? But succeeding in this battle is going to require a lot more than exposing the evil, we also have to have something to replace it with when it goes, or else we will be drawn down into the vortex of disintegration with it.

 

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2 minutes ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

You might not be. I'm white though. They don't want me as part of their slave race, nor do I want to be part of it.

 

 

It just requires a different way of looking at things. It's actually got nothing to do with colour but about what you are on the inside. One of the symptoms of mass psychosis is people turning to totalitarianism, either left or right. That's what the elite want. There is another way. 

 

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Just now, RobSS said:

 

It just requires a different way of looking at things. It's actually got nothing to do with colour but about what you are on the inside. One of the symptoms of mass psychosis is people turning to totalitarianism, either left or right. That's what the elite want. There is another way. 

 

 

I respectfully disagree. I know what they say about my people. I know their plans.

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Just now, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

I respectfully disagree. I know what they say about my people. I know their plans.

 

Their plans are the same for gays, blacks, lesbians, Asians and Jews, etc. Everyone is a minority now, including whites, it appears. I never dreamed things would come to this but this does seem to be what's happening, but still, I still think there's another way but it requires not giving into fear and using reason. Remember, FEAR = False Evidence Appearing Real.

 

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8 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

Their plans are the same for gays, blacks, lesbians, Asians and Jews, etc. Everyone is a minority now, including whites, it appears. I never dreamed things would come to this but this does seem to be what's happening, but still, I still think there's another way but it requires not giving into fear and using reason. Remember, FEAR = False Evidence Appearing Real.

 

 

Ultimately, I agree. I don't think these supremacists want anyone around but themselves long-term, with the exception of a few slaves.

 

However, I do think they see Europeans as something that needs to be brought to ruin so they can have their NWO. This isn't conspiracy talk or scapegoating. They literally say we're Edom, and that Edom must be brought to ruin so they can have their temple.

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6 minutes ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

Ultimately, I agree. I don't think these supremacists want anyone around but themselves long-term, with the exception of a few slaves.

 

However, I do think they see Europeans as something that needs to be brought to ruin so they can have their NWO. This isn't consiracy or scapegoating. They literally say we're Edom, and that Edom must be brought to ruin so they can have their temple.

 

I've been heavily attacked for stating this on the forum, but I'll say it again, I do have a plan. I've been thinking about it for decades. I'm pretty sure I was schooled before I came into this world to deal specifically with what's on the horizon and we will get through it, but we have to overcome fear, and we certainly mustn't give in to totalitarian tendencies. In about 3 weeks time, I'll begin the process of setting out my ideas by making soundings on this forum. 

 

 

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Just now, RobSS said:

 

I've been heavily attacked for stating this on the forum, but I'll say it again, I do have a plan. I've been thinking about it for decades. I'm pretty sure I was schooled before I came into this world to deal specifically with what's on the horizon and we will get through it, but we have to overcome fear, and we certainly mustn't give in to totalitarian tendencies. In about 3 weeks times, I'll begin the process of setting out my agenda by making soundings on this forum. 

 

 

 

I would be keeping my mouth shut if I was overwhelmed by fear. I have nothing to lose though, this is why I speak out.

 

As I said said early in the demographics thread, I fear that it will be minorities that will lose out the most, because they will be under the boot. Me on the other hand, I will probably just be dead.

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Just now, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

I would be keeping my mouth shut if I was overwhelmed by fear. I have nothing to lose though, this is why I speak out.

 

As I said said early in the demographics thread, I fear that it will be minorities that will lose out the most, because they will be under the boot. Me on the other hand, I will probably just be dead.

 

We're full of thoughts. The worst kind of thoughts are negative thoughts because they corrupt the soul and inhibit the spirit. We have more time than we think and this is a great time to be alive. It it were not, I would not sing and neither would other people be singing and making music. Not illuminati tainted music but real music that comes from the spirit. I'm about to start a thread in this General section about the Great Awakening. Watch the video in that, it's not long and see what you think...

 

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2 minutes ago, RobSS said:

I'm about to start a thread in this General section about the Great Awakening. 

 

Cool. Good to see we can have a peaceful dialogue.

 

I'm a creative type too. I made my money doing album art and flyers back in the day, mainly for hip hop artists. I did some big jobs for folks like Wu-Tang and Kool G Rap. I still have some good memories of those days, even though it did wake me up to how seedy the mainstream entertainment industry is.

 

Please understand me when I say I don't hate minoroties. I can see how they're being played too.

 

On another note, I don't really like the term 'the great awakening' because I believe that it's pushed by false saviours and Kabbalists like Dugin, but we do need a grassroots awakening, a peoples awakening.

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Just now, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

Cool. Good to see we can have a peaceful dialogue.

 

I'm a creative type too. I made my money doing album art and flyers back in the day, mainly for hip hop artists. I did some big jobs for folks like Wu-Tang and Kool G Rap. I still have some good memories of those days, even though it did wake me up to how seedy the mainstream entertainment industry is.

 

Please understand me when I say I don't hate minoroties. I can see how they're being played too.

 

On another note, I don't really like the term 'the great awakening' because I believe that it's pushed by false saviours and Kabbalists like Dugin, but we do need a grassroots awakening, a peoples awakening.

 

I hear what you're saying about the term, "The Great Awakening". You've reminded me of what I was going to mention in the introduction to the Great Awakening video, which I forgot, which was that an awakening is not the same a being born again, but it's a start, and I do think she has some interesting perspectives on the process we're all going through, but yes, it has to be a grass-roots awakening and that has to start within our innermost being - in our thoughts, and turning our negative thoughts into positive ones. Not an easy thing to do, but that's why we're here, to become strong and overcome. 

 

It's really interesting that you're creative. I would like to know more about your creativity over time. I can learn from other people's creative ideas. In fact, ideas are one of the things the elite cannot swallow. There, I've already told you a little secret!

 

I could be on other sections of the forum having a really easy time, but I always find myself in the most controversial areas because that's where I learn, and that's where I grow.

 

 

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2 hours ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

There is a difference between noticing an agenda and hating individuals.

 

As you know, I think immigration has been weaponized, but does talking about it mean I hate non-Europeans, especially the ones in my family that are Indonesian and Filipino? No.

 

Shining a light on certain agendas doesn't mean you're sewing disharmony.

 

i see it in terms of the micro and the macro

 

On the micro level (the level of the small) we are talking about individuals and like yourself i have no problems with individuals who are migrants or different skin colours or sexual preferences or whatever

 

But when we are talking about THE CONSPIRACY then really we are talking about LARGE SCALE agendas which is the macro level

 

Talking about the macro is a more detached way of observing events where you look at the forces and pressures at work on society. For example talking about the economic or cultural implications of MASS immigration

 

But what the neo-marxists always try and do is try to imply you are talking about the micro level and they say 'oh you must hate immigrants then'. Its their way of disingenuously trying to silence you

 

But we don't have a problem with individuals on the micro level. We aren't talking about that. We are talking about the impact on the MACRO level of what happens when there is a lot of something because that is how the conspiracy operates.

 

When it comes to personal choice about things i'm very liberal but when we talk about how they are trying to socially engineer us then i'm very conservative because i can see what they are trying to do and its evil

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1 hour ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 pushed by false saviours and Kabbalists like Dugin

 

I need to properly catch up on all you have been saying about dugin and the whole eurasia bit. This thread isn't the place for it (unless you can tie in deripaska and peter mandelson!) but yeah the role of russia in all of this is an area i need to get a deeper handle on

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Another homosexual theatre influencer - an Englishman from the 20th century - Noel Coward (1899–1973). 

 

Gertrude Lawrence and Noel Coward in Private Lives, 1931 both looking very gay in the original meaning of the word.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/theatre/2019/06/05/TELEMMGLPICT000199765078_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqn5DIVBT_yNHa4foeS9wJP_vkXS-dnCR6Bi1mT6M9NfM.jpeg?imwidth=960

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2 hours ago, RobSS said:

Oscar Wilde (1854–1900), one of the homosexual elite of his day and one of the most celebrated British theatre influencers of the late 19th century.

 

https://britishheritage.com/uploads/article/2019/2/1769/Oscar_Wilde_Getty.jpg?t=1627634478

 

 

 

I wonder how many children he had sex with, and their promiscuous life style shows no sign or attempt at self control or decency. You're some Christian.

 

https://pvewood.blogspot.com/2018/09/oscar-wilde-and-andre-gide-were-alas.html

Oscar Wilde, André Gide and sex with underage boys

 
 
I have a huge admiration and much affection for Oscar Wilde, but I get annoyed when he is treated as a hero because of his sex life. There is nothing remotely heroic about it. 
 
I asked in this blog a long time ago, in a post that gets lots of clicks, if he were a child molester. He had relations with boys under the age of 18, which was illegal in England till twenty years ago and one boy was mentioned at his trial who looked fourteen. 

I recently accidentally came across this book review from 1997, which suggests that Wilde procured young boys for Lord Alfred Douglas and Andre Gide and had relations with them himself. I quote.
''Wilde lost his virginity to Robbie Ross when the latter was a year below the current age of consent [in England in 1997] , and the boys Wilde wined and dined were frequently younger than that - as when he became involved with a 16-year-old who had been smuggled into London from Bruges to be installed in the Albermarle Hotel. According to Oscar Browning, the pederastic Victorian public-school master, "on Saturday, the boy slept with Douglas; on Sunday he slept with Oscar. On Monday he slept with a woman at Douglas's expense."
I incidentally remember a portrait of Browning hung in the Cambridge Union where I idled too much time pointlessly as an undergraduate. He was fired from Eton where he taught for being excessively friendly with the future Lord Curzon and other boys and went on to have a glittering career as a don at King's College, Cambridge.

Paedophiles (who are attracted to pre-pubescent children) are attracted to children of either sex indiscriminately, but pederasty (homosexual relations with boys who have reached puberty) is different.

In the 1970s, when homosexuality was not respectable or spoken about much, though no longer shocking, pederasty was not always considered as the horrible thing that it is. 

One example is the one man play 'Latin!' by Stephen Fry, which I saw him reprise in my first week at Cambridge in October 1980. He had performed it at the Edinburgh Festival that summer and I thought about it when I paid my first visit to the Festival this summer. 

I did not expect to quote the now disgraced and usually very irritating Johann Hari with approval, but I commend to you this article by him about 'Latin!', where the central character, Dominic Clarke, is a teacher who "carnally violates" a 13-year-old orphan, and about Alan Bennett's claim, in a play of his about Benjamin Britten, that a teacher who gropes his pupils can be the real child or true innocent.

'Dominic runs away with the 13 year old to live in Morocco. They write back to explain that there, young boys and men can live together as sexual partners. The school's pupils, en masse, demand to be allowed to live in Morocco. The plain implication is that these 13-year-olds were also longing to be abused by older men.

'I know Bennett and Fry are wrong, because when I was a teenager, I was subjected to the persistent sexual advances of an older man in a position of authority over me. I managed to escape the situation without being abused, but I know other boys did not. There can indeed be an initial element of being flattered, or even excited – but it is also married to feelings of fear and revulsion that somebody who is supposed to have offered safety is offering danger. The adolescent is not in a position to make an informed choice. It is healthy for adolescents to explore their sexualities among themselves – but when an adult intrudes into this process, it can damage their sexual development with consequences for the rest of their lives.'
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Oscar Wilde is Rob's hero for anally raping underage boys but I am a 'hater' apparently because I don't want unlimited third world immigration at the tax-payer's expense. 

 

 

https://thefederalist.com/2018/09/18/time-left-stop-idolizing-oscar-wilde-hes-pervert/

It’s Time For The Left To Stop Idolizing Oscar Wilde. He’s A Pervert

This icon, at the height of his fame, took advantage of his wealth and status to solicit, groom, and harass young men and teenage boys, whose willingness was ambiguous at best.
 
Nick Sheppard
By Nick Sheppard
SEPTEMBER 18, 2018
 

Warning: this article contains explicit content.

I’ve always been a fan of Oscar Wilde. As well as being a great servant of the English language, he was iconoclastic, flamboyant, and brave. In the 21st century, he is just as well known for his famous witticisms as he is for his famous works, including “The Picture of Dorian Gray” and “The Importance of Being Earnest.”

 

Most people are generally aware that Wilde fell in love with the young undergraduate Lord Alfred “Bosie” Douglas, and that the pair maintained a relationship until Wilde’s trial and eventual imprisonment for homosexual offences. What most people don’t know about is Wilde’s pattern of sexual behavior in middle age.

This icon, at the height of his fame, took advantage of his wealth and status to solicit, groom, and harass young men and teenage boys, whose willingness as sexual partners was ambiguous at best. In the age of the Me Too movement, and with the dust having settled after the downfall of Kevin Spacey, Wilde is overdue for a re-evaluation.

We’re Re-Evaluating Everyone, and It’s Oscar Wilde’s Turn

To a great extent, Wilde has been shielded from criticism. He has often, quite fairly, been judged a victim of Victorian hypocrisy. Some make a historical relativist argument, cautioning against taking things out of context and judging Wilde’s actions by our own standards.

Since homosexuality scarcely existed in Wilde’s time as a category to be reviled, they argue, there were no rules or legal standards of behavior for consent. LGBT culture was unfixed and undefined, and therefore Wilde should be given a little more leeway in how we assess his behavior. Bosie’s father, Lord Queensbury, was a brute, a two-dimensional antagonist, whose escalating harassment of Wilde and Bosie renders them easily sympathetic. Wilde’s shocking downfall is often viewed as more than enough suffering, and casts him as a martyr for his sexuality.

 

In jail, Wilde wrote “De Profundis” (translated as “From the Depths”), a confessional work in which he castigates himself for his decadent behavior, and for squandering much of his talent. In the wake of his fall from grace, this seemed like sufficient self-reflection and an atonement of sorts.

Perhaps most importantly, Wilde has, for several generations, been a necessary icon for LGBT people: too significant, too ideal, regarded too reverentially for his reputation to face any serious challenge. But the culture has changed in two significant ways, which necessitate a far more negative assessment of Wilde, to the point we can still appreciate him as an artist, but with far less warmth and admiration for him as a person.

In the second half of the 20th century, when LGBT as a category was fighting for recognition, there were not many clear LGBT cultural icons to draw on for a sense of empowerment, so Wilde was of profound importance. But in our more tolerant age, when a large number of historical figures have been revealed as queer, and modern popular culture is full of openly gay celebrities and intellectuals, the weight of reliance on Wilde is far less, and there is greater license to examine him more critically.

Secondly, in the wake of the Me Too movement, particularly Spacey’s downfall, Wilde looks distinctly dubious—by the standards of decency and behavior both in our age, and in his own.

What Oscar Wilde Did Was Reprehensible

 

The object of Wilde’s first homosexual liaison was Robbie Ross. Ross moved in with Wilde and his wife, Constance, while he was cramming to get into Cambridge. The situation was not uncommon in the world the Wildes inhabited. What was, and is, contentious, is that Wilde’s sexual relationship with Ross began when Wilde was a 33-year-old man, and Ross was a 17-year-old school boy.

“Bosie” Douglass also introduced Wilde to young male sex workers: tough youngsters around Piccadilly Circus, and a circle of “renters.” Wilde didn’t exclusively seek teenagers, but his pattern indicates he preferred them to grown men when he had the choice.

Many of these renters were later witnesses in Wilde’s trial for indecency. In many published accounts of the Wilde trials, the rent boys have been dismissed as rough trade whose statements are unreliable. But three boys gave statements who were not prostitutes—Walter Grainger, Edward Shelley, and Alphonse Conway—and their stories make uncomfortable reading.

Grainger was a 16-year-old servant in the house where Wilde stayed during his visits to Oxford. During Wilde’s trial, Grainger testified that Wilde “placed his penis between my legs and satisfied himself.” Grainger went on to testify that while he was sleeping one night, Wilde woke him and “worked me up with his hand and made me spend into his mouth.” Wilde then told Grainger he would be in “very serious trouble” if anyone found out about their private liaisons.

 

Defense attorney Edward Carson asked Wilde if he had ever kissed Grainger, and Wilde replied, “Oh, no, never in my life… he was a peculiarly plain boy… his appearance was so very unfortunately—very ugly—I mean—I pitied him for it.” Given how Wilde had used Grainger, his flippant answer seems especially cruel. It was the turning point of the whole libel case since it implied that if Grainger were handsome, Wilde would happily have kissed him.

Wilde was 39 when he met and seduced Conway, a boy of 16, during a six-week family holiday to Worthing. When Queensberry’s detectives tracked Conway down the following year, he gave a statement saying that Wilde had touched him inappropriately, and taken him into his bedroom two or three times, where the pair had stripped and lain in bed together; that Wilde had masturbated him on a walk; and, finally, on a trip to Brighton, “used his mouth” on him.

Wilde additionally attempted to court Fred Atkins, a (comparatively older) 20-year-old. Wilde invited Atkins to Paris to serve as his secretary, but Atkins said the job only entailed “writing out… half a page of a manuscript, which took about 10 minutes.” Atkins said Wilde spent the rest of their time together “making improper proposals.”

Around this time, Wilde became involved with another 16-year-old, who had been brought into London from Bruges to be installed in the Albermarle Hotel. According to Oscar Browning, a contemporary of Wilde, “On Saturday, the boy slept with Douglas; on Sunday he slept with Oscar. On Monday he slept with a woman at Douglas’s expense.”

The Albermarle Hotel was also where Wilde invited another boy, 18-year-old Edward Shelley, to dine with him. Shelley later testified: “I had whisky and soda and smoked cigarettes in Mr. Wilde’s sitting room. Mr. Wilde said, ‘Will you come into my bedroom?’ I did not know what he meant. As I went into the room Mr. Wilde kissed me. He also put his arms round me. I had been taking a lot of wine. I felt insulted, degraded, and objected vigorously.”

This Behavior Caused Kevin Spacey’s Fall from Grace

How dissimilar is this pattern of behavior from Spacey’s? For instance, of the 15 accusers who came out against him, one told the BBC’s Victoria Derbyshire that Spacey tried to seduce him at his New York apartment when he was 17. The complainant said Spacey asked him to share his bed, but he slept on the sofa, then woke up with the actor’s arms around him: “I was uncomfortable at best, traumatized at worst.”

‘I was uncomfortable at best, traumatized at worst.’

Another accuser, a 16-year-old theater usher when Spacey was appearing in a play, said Spacey invited him and a male friend to his apartment to watch a movie. Instead, Spacey allegedly gave them cocktails and played pornography on the TV. “He knew that I was in high school. It was pretty clear,” the young man said. “It’s not like I was pretending to be an older, cooler person.”

Wilde has the moral fig-leaf of financial transactions sometimes, but in many of the other instances, the teenagers convey, in their testimony, a similar sense of discomfit and disillusionment at being taken advantage of.

One of Spacey’s accusers alleges that he was 14 when he and Spacey first entered sexual relations. Margaret Cotta, a chambermaid at the Savoy Hotel, testified at Wilde’s trial that while Wilde’s lover Alfred Douglas was visiting, she discovered a 14-year-old boy in Wilde’s bed.

Cotta said Wilde’s sheets “were always in a most disgusting state…with traces of Vaseline, soil and semen.” Cotta later revised her testimony, suggesting the boy may have been slightly older, but this impression of a young teen in then middle-aged Wilde’s hotel suite is not a pleasant one.

Oh, and Oscar Wilde Was Also a Sex Tourist

Wilde and Bosie traveled abroad, to countries like Italy and Algeria, where homosexual liaisons between English speakers and local youth were known to flourish. It’s what others have called the seduction of the Orient and the Mediterranean, and what these days is referred to, rather less eloquently, as international sex tourism. In effect, these countries were the South East Asia of their time, where affluent Westerners would solicit deprived or uneducated youngsters in seedy, unregulated contexts.

In Algiers in 1895, Wilde procured for fellow writer Andre Gide a flute-playing Arab boy, primarily to amuse himself and Lord Alfred Douglas. As Gide climbed into a carriage with the boy, fidgeting and procrastinating, Wilde looked on, triumphant.

The nearly 46-year-old playwright had an affair with a 15-year-old while he lived in Sicily during the last seven months of his life.

According to “Selected Letters of Oscar Wilde,” the nearly 46-year-old playwright had an affair with a 15-year-old while he lived in Sicily during the last seven months of his life. Wilde wrote a letter detailing his relationship with Giuseppe Loverde. He said of the boy, “Fifteen and most sweet… He said he never would [forget me]: and indeed, I don’t think he will, for every day I kissed him behind the high altar.” Bosie and Wilde shared most of their “lovers,” and Oscar, during this time, wrote of Bosie being devoted to “a dreadful little ruffian aged 14.”

Even Wilde’s celebrated defense of “the love that dare not speak its name” as “a great affection of an elder for a younger man” now strikes us as skewed and pretentious. Wilde takes the Hellenic ideal of elder mentors aesthetically appreciating younger men in ancient Greece, and equates it with sordid pickups of teenagers. His were superficial liaisons with no intellectual or mentoring aspects, adolescents to be enjoyed and discarded.

Declaring his “love that dare not speak its name” in the hope that posterity, a more enlightened age, will see him proven right isn’t an act of noble martyrdom. The modern age should see through this vainglorious rhetoric, and sympathize with the teenage boys whose circumstances, and experiences with Wilde, may not have been as “greatly affectionate” nor a re-enactment of the noble practices of the classical age as Wilde would have us believe.

I’ll always appreciate Wilde as an artist. I’ve seen “The Importance of Being Earnest” half-a-dozen times, and I’ll probably see it at least that many again. But Wilde as a person? Nope.

Edited by Truthspoon
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I think there's no denying there is an agenda on pushing gayness. It's up to homosexuals to realise that these lobbyists aren't there for their best interests. They are simply virtue signalling and backed by big NGOs. Why wouldn't they? THEY don't want us breeding. And that goes for the commie nonsense these arseholes promote they need to to give them the middle finger. 

 

My attitude is if someone is homosexual it shouldn't matter. If you like cock you like cock. Just don't shove it down everyone throats because that is quite rude. 

 

 

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Truthspoon said:

 

Oscar Wilde is Rob's hero for anally raping underage boys but I am a 'hater' apparently because I don't want unlimited third world immigration at the tax-payer's expense. 

 

 

https://thefederalist.com/2018/09/18/time-left-stop-idolizing-oscar-wilde-hes-pervert/

It’s Time For The Left To Stop Idolizing Oscar Wilde. He’s A Pervert

This icon, at the height of his fame, took advantage of his wealth and status to solicit, groom, and harass young men and teenage boys, whose willingness was ambiguous at best.
 
Nick Sheppard
By Nick Sheppard
SEPTEMBER 18, 2018
 

Warning: this article contains explicit content.

I’ve always been a fan of Oscar Wilde. As well as being a great servant of the English language, he was iconoclastic, flamboyant, and brave. In the 21st century, he is just as well known for his famous witticisms as he is for his famous works, including “The Picture of Dorian Gray” and “The Importance of Being Earnest.”

 

Most people are generally aware that Wilde fell in love with the young undergraduate Lord Alfred “Bosie” Douglas, and that the pair maintained a relationship until Wilde’s trial and eventual imprisonment for homosexual offences. What most people don’t know about is Wilde’s pattern of sexual behavior in middle age.

This icon, at the height of his fame, took advantage of his wealth and status to solicit, groom, and harass young men and teenage boys, whose willingness as sexual partners was ambiguous at best. In the age of the Me Too movement, and with the dust having settled after the downfall of Kevin Spacey, Wilde is overdue for a re-evaluation.

We’re Re-Evaluating Everyone, and It’s Oscar Wilde’s Turn

To a great extent, Wilde has been shielded from criticism. He has often, quite fairly, been judged a victim of Victorian hypocrisy. Some make a historical relativist argument, cautioning against taking things out of context and judging Wilde’s actions by our own standards.

Since homosexuality scarcely existed in Wilde’s time as a category to be reviled, they argue, there were no rules or legal standards of behavior for consent. LGBT culture was unfixed and undefined, and therefore Wilde should be given a little more leeway in how we assess his behavior. Bosie’s father, Lord Queensbury, was a brute, a two-dimensional antagonist, whose escalating harassment of Wilde and Bosie renders them easily sympathetic. Wilde’s shocking downfall is often viewed as more than enough suffering, and casts him as a martyr for his sexuality.

 

In jail, Wilde wrote “De Profundis” (translated as “From the Depths”), a confessional work in which he castigates himself for his decadent behavior, and for squandering much of his talent. In the wake of his fall from grace, this seemed like sufficient self-reflection and an atonement of sorts.

Perhaps most importantly, Wilde has, for several generations, been a necessary icon for LGBT people: too significant, too ideal, regarded too reverentially for his reputation to face any serious challenge. But the culture has changed in two significant ways, which necessitate a far more negative assessment of Wilde, to the point we can still appreciate him as an artist, but with far less warmth and admiration for him as a person.

In the second half of the 20th century, when LGBT as a category was fighting for recognition, there were not many clear LGBT cultural icons to draw on for a sense of empowerment, so Wilde was of profound importance. But in our more tolerant age, when a large number of historical figures have been revealed as queer, and modern popular culture is full of openly gay celebrities and intellectuals, the weight of reliance on Wilde is far less, and there is greater license to examine him more critically.

Secondly, in the wake of the Me Too movement, particularly Spacey’s downfall, Wilde looks distinctly dubious—by the standards of decency and behavior both in our age, and in his own.

What Oscar Wilde Did Was Reprehensible

 

The object of Wilde’s first homosexual liaison was Robbie Ross. Ross moved in with Wilde and his wife, Constance, while he was cramming to get into Cambridge. The situation was not uncommon in the world the Wildes inhabited. What was, and is, contentious, is that Wilde’s sexual relationship with Ross began when Wilde was a 33-year-old man, and Ross was a 17-year-old school boy.

“Bosie” Douglass also introduced Wilde to young male sex workers: tough youngsters around Piccadilly Circus, and a circle of “renters.” Wilde didn’t exclusively seek teenagers, but his pattern indicates he preferred them to grown men when he had the choice.

Many of these renters were later witnesses in Wilde’s trial for indecency. In many published accounts of the Wilde trials, the rent boys have been dismissed as rough trade whose statements are unreliable. But three boys gave statements who were not prostitutes—Walter Grainger, Edward Shelley, and Alphonse Conway—and their stories make uncomfortable reading.

Grainger was a 16-year-old servant in the house where Wilde stayed during his visits to Oxford. During Wilde’s trial, Grainger testified that Wilde “placed his penis between my legs and satisfied himself.” Grainger went on to testify that while he was sleeping one night, Wilde woke him and “worked me up with his hand and made me spend into his mouth.” Wilde then told Grainger he would be in “very serious trouble” if anyone found out about their private liaisons.

 

Defense attorney Edward Carson asked Wilde if he had ever kissed Grainger, and Wilde replied, “Oh, no, never in my life… he was a peculiarly plain boy… his appearance was so very unfortunately—very ugly—I mean—I pitied him for it.” Given how Wilde had used Grainger, his flippant answer seems especially cruel. It was the turning point of the whole libel case since it implied that if Grainger were handsome, Wilde would happily have kissed him.

Wilde was 39 when he met and seduced Conway, a boy of 16, during a six-week family holiday to Worthing. When Queensberry’s detectives tracked Conway down the following year, he gave a statement saying that Wilde had touched him inappropriately, and taken him into his bedroom two or three times, where the pair had stripped and lain in bed together; that Wilde had masturbated him on a walk; and, finally, on a trip to Brighton, “used his mouth” on him.

Wilde additionally attempted to court Fred Atkins, a (comparatively older) 20-year-old. Wilde invited Atkins to Paris to serve as his secretary, but Atkins said the job only entailed “writing out… half a page of a manuscript, which took about 10 minutes.” Atkins said Wilde spent the rest of their time together “making improper proposals.”

Around this time, Wilde became involved with another 16-year-old, who had been brought into London from Bruges to be installed in the Albermarle Hotel. According to Oscar Browning, a contemporary of Wilde, “On Saturday, the boy slept with Douglas; on Sunday he slept with Oscar. On Monday he slept with a woman at Douglas’s expense.”

The Albermarle Hotel was also where Wilde invited another boy, 18-year-old Edward Shelley, to dine with him. Shelley later testified: “I had whisky and soda and smoked cigarettes in Mr. Wilde’s sitting room. Mr. Wilde said, ‘Will you come into my bedroom?’ I did not know what he meant. As I went into the room Mr. Wilde kissed me. He also put his arms round me. I had been taking a lot of wine. I felt insulted, degraded, and objected vigorously.”

This Behavior Caused Kevin Spacey’s Fall from Grace

How dissimilar is this pattern of behavior from Spacey’s? For instance, of the 15 accusers who came out against him, one told the BBC’s Victoria Derbyshire that Spacey tried to seduce him at his New York apartment when he was 17. The complainant said Spacey asked him to share his bed, but he slept on the sofa, then woke up with the actor’s arms around him: “I was uncomfortable at best, traumatized at worst.”

‘I was uncomfortable at best, traumatized at worst.’

Another accuser, a 16-year-old theater usher when Spacey was appearing in a play, said Spacey invited him and a male friend to his apartment to watch a movie. Instead, Spacey allegedly gave them cocktails and played pornography on the TV. “He knew that I was in high school. It was pretty clear,” the young man said. “It’s not like I was pretending to be an older, cooler person.”

Wilde has the moral fig-leaf of financial transactions sometimes, but in many of the other instances, the teenagers convey, in their testimony, a similar sense of discomfit and disillusionment at being taken advantage of.

One of Spacey’s accusers alleges that he was 14 when he and Spacey first entered sexual relations. Margaret Cotta, a chambermaid at the Savoy Hotel, testified at Wilde’s trial that while Wilde’s lover Alfred Douglas was visiting, she discovered a 14-year-old boy in Wilde’s bed.

Cotta said Wilde’s sheets “were always in a most disgusting state…with traces of Vaseline, soil and semen.” Cotta later revised her testimony, suggesting the boy may have been slightly older, but this impression of a young teen in then middle-aged Wilde’s hotel suite is not a pleasant one.

Oh, and Oscar Wilde Was Also a Sex Tourist

Wilde and Bosie traveled abroad, to countries like Italy and Algeria, where homosexual liaisons between English speakers and local youth were known to flourish. It’s what others have called the seduction of the Orient and the Mediterranean, and what these days is referred to, rather less eloquently, as international sex tourism. In effect, these countries were the South East Asia of their time, where affluent Westerners would solicit deprived or uneducated youngsters in seedy, unregulated contexts.

In Algiers in 1895, Wilde procured for fellow writer Andre Gide a flute-playing Arab boy, primarily to amuse himself and Lord Alfred Douglas. As Gide climbed into a carriage with the boy, fidgeting and procrastinating, Wilde looked on, triumphant.

The nearly 46-year-old playwright had an affair with a 15-year-old while he lived in Sicily during the last seven months of his life.

According to “Selected Letters of Oscar Wilde,” the nearly 46-year-old playwright had an affair with a 15-year-old while he lived in Sicily during the last seven months of his life. Wilde wrote a letter detailing his relationship with Giuseppe Loverde. He said of the boy, “Fifteen and most sweet… He said he never would [forget me]: and indeed, I don’t think he will, for every day I kissed him behind the high altar.” Bosie and Wilde shared most of their “lovers,” and Oscar, during this time, wrote of Bosie being devoted to “a dreadful little ruffian aged 14.”

Even Wilde’s celebrated defense of “the love that dare not speak its name” as “a great affection of an elder for a younger man” now strikes us as skewed and pretentious. Wilde takes the Hellenic ideal of elder mentors aesthetically appreciating younger men in ancient Greece, and equates it with sordid pickups of teenagers. His were superficial liaisons with no intellectual or mentoring aspects, adolescents to be enjoyed and discarded.

Declaring his “love that dare not speak its name” in the hope that posterity, a more enlightened age, will see him proven right isn’t an act of noble martyrdom. The modern age should see through this vainglorious rhetoric, and sympathize with the teenage boys whose circumstances, and experiences with Wilde, may not have been as “greatly affectionate” nor a re-enactment of the noble practices of the classical age as Wilde would have us believe.

I’ll always appreciate Wilde as an artist. I’ve seen “The Importance of Being Earnest” half-a-dozen times, and I’ll probably see it at least that many again. But Wilde as a person? Nope.

 

Where did I say Oscar Wilde was my hero? I've never even suggested such a thing? So you're imagining things again. 

 

My sentiments regarding Oscar Wilde are about the same as the author of the article that you've copied and pasted. To quote his words:

 

"I’ll always appreciate Wilde as an artist. I’ve seen “The Importance of Being Earnest” half-a-dozen times, and I’ll probably see it at least that many again. But Wilde as a person? Nope."

 

No need to get all excited about the matter, so calm down! LOL

 

 

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Truthspoon said:

 

I wonder how many children he had sex with, and their promiscuous life style shows no sign or attempt at self control or decency. You're some Christian.

 

 

What's Oscar Wilde's sex life got to do with me being a Christian?

 

 

 

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