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Zionism (history)


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What's up with Zionism anyway? Conspiracy theory ideology tends to repeat an assumed reality on the basis of how many people repeat the said belief. That is, the Jewish culture and language somehow came out of thin air. So say the masses. This is the foundation of the Covid ideology - which substitutes hard science by belief.
It would be nice to see real quotes from recognised books when making the assumption Jews don't have a heritage in the Middle East. That is, solid analysis of semitic history, including Mesopotamia and Sumerian culture, as well as Egyptian. It is recognised Jews were assimilated and worked in Egypt under Ramases the Great and exiled under his reign. The Hebrew language likewise is among the most ancient to survive.
Sorry but I dislike wide conclusions drawn on the basis of internet sources, which so often ignore serious research. Indeed that is specifically how Covid pseudoscience substituted reliable information.
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The point I made is:
I often see a lot of discussion that knocks Israel but lacks facts based on the history of the Middle East. I'm not Jewish by the way so have no particular bias on the issue.
Historical fact is Israel was an ancient State with a language and culture that has a major bearing on this issue. Even during the Roman Empire, Israel existed as a client state, as did Greece. And nobody suggests Greeks somehow "occupy" Greece.
The major misunderstanding is most people accept at face value the idea modern Palestinians are the same people as the Canaanites, which they are not. The original Canaanites intermarried with Hebrews millenia ago. Modern Palestinians came to the so-called occupied territories much later, after the Jewish Roman war. So, in reality Jews were the displaced population and not the reverse. Compare that to countries like South Africa or South America and you will see a difference. That is, Spanish catholics occupied Indian territories, as in Peru, - which is very unlike the Jewish link to the Middle East.
Personally, if I were myself Jewish I guess I would want to live in Israel. Simple reason for that would be it's historically connected.
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57 minutes ago, Shining-one said:

The point I made is:
I often see a lot of discussion that knocks Israel but lacks facts based on the history of the Middle East. I'm not Jewish by the way so have no particular bias on the issue.
Historical fact is Israel was an ancient State with a language and culture that has a major bearing on this issue. Even during the Roman Empire, Israel existed as a client state, as did Greece. And nobody suggests Greeks somehow "occupy" Greece.
The major misunderstanding is most people accept at face value the idea modern Palestinians are the same people as the Canaanites, which they are not. The original Canaanites intermarried with Hebrews millenia ago. Modern Palestinians came to the so-called occupied territories much later, after the Jewish Roman war. So, in reality Jews were the displaced population and not the reverse. Compare that to countries like South Africa or South America and you will see a difference. That is, Spanish catholics occupied Indian territories, as in Peru, - which is very unlike the Jewish link to the Middle East.
Personally, if I were myself Jewish I guess I would want to live in Israel. Simple reason for that would be it's historically connected.

 

Zionist.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Truthspoon said:

 

Zionist.

 

 

So, the term "Zionism", as I understand it, is based on the restoration of Israel and the cultural identity of those who are genuinely (and genetically) Jewish. The term has been made political but the essence of it is restoration and the basis lies in the survival of the language. Maybe it would be like all the South American Indians starting to speak Mayan again, restoring the ancient cities and displacing the European settlers. In neither case could I find a good argument against but it can only happen if a culture survives - and that means the language. Now, Latin is still known but the original Romans more or less died out.

 

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20 minutes ago, Shining-one said:

So, the term "Zionism", as I understand it, is based on the restoration of Israel and the cultural identity of those who are genuinely (and genetically) Jewish. The term has been made political but the essence of it is restoration and the basis lies in the survival of the language. Maybe it would be like all the South American Indians starting to speak Mayan again, restoring the ancient cities and displacing the European settlers. In neither case could I find a good argument against but it can only happen if a culture survives - and that means the language. Now, Latin is still known but the original Romans more or less died out.

 

 

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I reached my own views after reading a fair bit of ancient history years ago. This changed my views on Christianity as I concluded the historical Jesus differs from the version we have today. As John Lennon once stated, Jesus was OK but his disciples muddled it up. That produced a Beatle backlash in the USA.
Simply said, my reading led me to see Israel existed as a great, but brief, global power. Restoring its culture and borders in a modern era is controversial but definitely not the same as imperialism. Lots of excavations proved the Israel culture was real as the Roman remains in Pompei. You can't say the same for Catholicism in South America.
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Better said, Shining's posts can offer real quotes from real sources if needed. One of my friends is a uni professor in ancient history. Moved up from Phd to prof and fluent in ancient languages. I always stress to use real books and not social media sources.
Not that I plan to get too into this thread. I just dislike mass influence and stereotyped history views. Given that same situation created the Covid belief.
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O.K. briefly:
It's agreed Hebrews were residentt, building in ancient Egypt at the time of Ramases. Ramases is believed to be the Biblical Pharoa. The departure from Egypt and eventual arrival in Canaan is now well supported by archeology. These Canaanites, of course, were neither Christian nor Muslim, but pagan. They worshipped gods. The Hebrews then settled and blended into the established, polytheistic culture. The language more or less is preserved but was modified by modern Jewish scholars to allow speech. So, in modern Israel, they speak an extremely ancient language. Zionism connects to that but is wrongly interpreted by people today, due to imperialism. Jews were governed by imperial powers such as the Roman and British Empire. They were eventually ethnically cleansed but the events of WW2 led to the re-settlement of European Jews in the Middle East.
The awkward question to ask is why there is so much resentment over a typical ethnic conflict of interests. Crimea, for example, is populated by ethnic Russians who don't want to be Ukranian. On that score, we face a real risk of World War as NATO builds up Ukraine. Lesser conflicts are based on Basques vs Spanish, or the old IRA conflict.
You could argue very well the current Middle East crisis was created by Imperialism and certainly not Jews (or maybe even Muslims). Imperialiasm, however, has had its day. Europeans may well dislike Israel but the latter is now autonomous and armed with a nuclear deterrent. It's really time the former world powers accepted imperialism is gone and the mess they left behind must be sorted out. That means Arabs and Jews need to talk and negotiate.
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Not planning to get more involved but will just add.
It's kind of ironic David Icke lost his Youtube and (was it Twitter?), namely for expressing views that differed from mainstream. I also recall the mockery on the first Wogan show. And yet, this pretty much happens everwhere. Is this site a place where having a different opinion has the same censorship as David experienced recently? Presumably we are supposed to be anti Israel merely on the basis of "fitting in". As it happens a lot of anti vaxers have widely diverse views on religion and politics.
I'm bowing out of future participation in the site, namely because I don't do censorship and don't need to be moderated to please the majority view. No offence, of course. Just simply "moderation" in my book is about threats or insults and not opinion or political view. And that's my last comment.
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Guest Gone Fishing...
3 minutes ago, Shining-one said:

"fitting in".


lf your comments /points are not within the context of the title or flow your comments will be hidden / deleted/ moved as any comments do about ANY subject..
BC

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23 hours ago, Shining-one said:

These Canaanites, of course, were neither Christian nor Muslim, but pagan.

 

As them religions wernt born yet at the time so yeah think you are onto something there.

 

23 hours ago, Shining-one said:

 

They worshipped gods. The Hebrews then settled and blended into the established, polytheistic culture. The language more or less is preserved but was modified by modern Jewish scholars to allow speech. So, in modern Israel, they speak an extremely ancient language.

 

Only recently they started speaking that language.

https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/israelexperience/history/pages/hebrew-language-day-the-revival-of-the-language-of-the-bible.aspx

 

23 hours ago, Shining-one said:

 

 

 

Zionism connects to that but is wrongly interpreted by people today, due to imperialism. Jews were governed by imperial powers such as the Roman and British Empire. They were eventually ethnically cleansed but the events of WW2 led to the re-settlement of European Jews in the Middle East.

 

Jews were exiled, according to the story.

European migrant terrorist in Palestine killed British troops, bit of a jump in time scale from the Roman colony.

Jews did live in Palestine more recently & got on with the yocals, but very few.

 

23 hours ago, Shining-one said:

 


The awkward question to ask is why there is so much resentment over a typical ethnic conflict of interests.

 

Because they ethnic cleanse the indigenous & make them second class citizens.

 

23 hours ago, Shining-one said:

 

 

Crimea, for example, is populated by ethnic Russians who don't want to be Ukranian. On that score, we face a real risk of World War as NATO builds up Ukraine. Lesser conflicts are based on Basques vs Spanish, or the old IRA conflict.
You could argue very well the current Middle East crisis was created by Imperialism and certainly not Jews (or maybe even Muslims). Imperialiasm, however, has had its day. Europeans may well dislike Israel but the latter is now autonomous and armed with a nuclear deterrent. It's really time the former world powers accepted imperialism is gone and the mess they left behind must be sorted out. That means Arabs and Jews need to talk and negotiate.

 

Show some evidence of your ancient state of Israel you claim..Israel the people of the bible were nomadic.

There are biblical archaeologists who claim they found Davids Palace etc etc..but its political to justify their theifdom.

 

Ashkenazi the majority Jews have no genetic link to Palestine or other Jews. You can read a lot of propaganda to justify their racial apartheid, but the current science disagrees.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1336798/

 

You are confused, by your chosen historian telling you porkies

 

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1 minute ago, Shining-one said:

It's not an issue for me. However, the Youtube moderators would have made the same argument when removing D Icke's channel. There is the irony.

Nobody removed anything, Basket defused the situation.

Was an obvious hijack & this thread is not about the history of Jews in Palestine.

 

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Guest Gone Fishing...
24 minutes ago, Shining-one said:

It's not an issue for me. However, the Youtube moderators would have made the same argument when removing D Icke's channel. There is the irony.


l did not remove your comments.
Can you see them on the forum or not ?
 

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On 8/15/2021 at 2:06 AM, Shining-one said:

O.K. briefly:
It's agreed Hebrews were residentt, building in ancient Egypt at the time of Ramases. Ramases is believed to be the Biblical Pharoa. The departure from Egypt and eventual arrival in Canaan is now well supported by archeology. These Canaanites, of course, were neither Christian nor Muslim, but pagan. They worshipped gods. The Hebrews then settled and blended into the established, polytheistic culture. The language more or less is preserved but was modified by modern Jewish scholars to allow speech. So, in modern Israel, they speak an extremely ancient language. Zionism connects to that but is wrongly interpreted by people today, due to imperialism. Jews were governed by imperial powers such as the Roman and British Empire. They were eventually ethnically cleansed but the events of WW2 led to the re-settlement of European Jews in the Middle East.
The awkward question to ask is why there is so much resentment over a typical ethnic conflict of interests. Crimea, for example, is populated by ethnic Russians who don't want to be Ukranian. On that score, we face a real risk of World War as NATO builds up Ukraine. Lesser conflicts are based on Basques vs Spanish, or the old IRA conflict.
You could argue very well the current Middle East crisis was created by Imperialism and certainly not Jews (or maybe even Muslims). Imperialiasm, however, has had its day. Europeans may well dislike Israel but the latter is now autonomous and armed with a nuclear deterrent. It's really time the former world powers accepted imperialism is gone and the mess they left behind must be sorted out. That means Arabs and Jews need to talk and negotiate.

 

 

I think 99 percent of people here know this.

 

What you don't know, and what most people here probably DO know is that the people who have presently stolen Palestine with terrorism and genocide have nothing to do with those ancient Israelites. They are not the same religion, the are not the same ethnic group...

 

Rabbinical 'Judaism' is NOT Judaism. It is the religion of the ancient enemy of the Israelites and most of the Old Testament is spent warning the children of Israel against these same people.

 

The Israelis are not Jewish nor even Israelites. They are most Edomites. Genetically this makes them Canaanites. The very people the Israelites had always been at war with.

 

That's real history. 

 

You can say thank you now.

 

 

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