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17 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

i think that if you are going back to source then you'd have to investigate the societies that were feeding into the creation of early christianity. You'd have to look at judaism and you'd have to look at hellenism and also the romans

 

Was the context of that time more patriarchal?

 

 

Feminists and their perspectives on the church fathers' beliefs regarding women: An inquiry

 

ABSTRACT

The church fathers and their views on women were influenced substantially and significantly by philosophical voices, such as that of Aristotle and Plato, amongst others. A brief account on Aristotle's and Plato's ideas about women, from feminist perspectives, will be touched upon. The article furthermore explores feminist voices, regarding the church fathers' thinking about women, and how these views contributed to women's subordination and domination. The research will focus on the many varied views on women held by Latin church fathers, such as Tertullian (c. 155-255), Cyprian (c. 200-258 AD), Jerome (c. 347-419), Ambrose (c. 339-397) and Augustine (354-430), and the Greek church fathers, such as Clement of Alexander (c. 150-215), Origen (c. 185-254) and Chrysostom (c. 347-407), from the perspective of feminists. It will be contended that an insensitive and too early denunciation of the early church fathers as misogynists often occurs in women's history without taking into consideration the church fathers' philosophical and social contexts and, hence, the opinions that formed their views. One such theory that helped to shape the church fathers' views about women is the classic medical theory, and this therefore merits a brief discussion. Another important point one has to take into account is the church fathers' perceptions of the carnal (sexual) and the spiritual world that shaped their views about women.

 

Introduction

Women were oppressed, marginalised and dominated in a male-centred world. In a patriarchal society, men are viewed as superior, stronger and more rational than women, and that God created men to dominate. In the same patriarchal society, women are viewed as deviant, incomplete, physically mutilated, emotionally dependent, unstable, naturally weaker, unintelligent and rationally inferior. In brief, patriarchy is a system in which women experience discrimination, subordination and physical, mental and spiritual violence, as well as abuse and oppression (Wood 2013:155).

We cannot deny or ignore that patriarchy exists, and, from a feminist point of view, patriarchy as a system is intrinsically evil. The church fathers and their views on women were influenced substantially and significantly by philosophical voices, such as that of Aristotle and Plato, amongst others. Therefore, a brief account on Aristotle's and Plato's ideas about women will be touched upon. The article will furthermore explore feminist voices, regarding the church fathers' thinking about women, and how these views have contributed to women's subordination and domination. Special attention will be given to the Latin church fathers, such as Tertullian (c. 155-255), Cyprian (c. 200-258 AD), Jerome (c. 347-419), Ambrose (c. 339-397) and Augustine (354-430), and the Greek church fathers, such as Clement of Alexander (c. 150-215), Origen (c. 185-254) and Chrysostom (c. 347-407).

 

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The church fathers' perceptions of women

The Latin and the Greek church fathers' writings reflect the times and conditions within which they lived. It finds expression in their dualistic view of the soul and body: God and nature, and male and female. During the period 1-590 AD, Christianity became firmly rooted in the Graeco-Roman culture and this period marked a concerted effort to restrict the role of women in the church and society. This is reflected in the above discussion on Plato and Aristotle. Women were allowed to engage in charitable works, but were forbidden to undertake religious instruction or to administer the sacraments. Women were not considered equal to men (Isherwood & McEwan 2001:57-58).

Views of the church fathers, such as the Latin church fathers - Tertullian, Cyprian, Jerome and Augustine - and the Greek church fathers - Clement of Alexander, Origen and Chrysostom - were not only built upon the anthropology of Plato (428/427-348/347 BC) and Aristotle (384-322 BC) but also on Scripture and especially those of Paul. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 was often cited and used as a justification for gender inequality. They based their views of women on texts such as Genesis 1:27, Genesis 2:20-23 and Genesis 3:1-24 in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, gender inequality supporting texts included 1 Timothy 2:8-15, 1 Corinthians 11:7-9, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 and Ephesians 5:22-23. Lerner points out that these texts were interpreted in different ways, either literally or allegorically. Literally, they pointed to the innate inferiority of women and, allegorically, they referred to the human mind whereby the higher intellect belongs to men and the lower intellect belongs to women (Lerner 1993:141). Lerner (1993:140-143) states that according to the church fathers, women were responsible for sin as the root of all evil. Knight (1974:117) contends that the creation story implies women's subordination and the myth of the virgin birth contributed to sex being viewed as unclean and displeasing to God.

 

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 For Tertullian, women were the source of all evil, and he believed that there was nothing good about women, in general or, any woman in particular. In his view, women were responsible for pain, suffering, sin and corruption in both the private and public spheres (Tavard 1973:58-59). Tertullian despised women so much that he warned men against gazing upon them, because it would mean that they would have their immortal souls consigned to hell and would be doomed to never enjoy the security of heaven after death (Tavard 1973:59).

 

Jerome viewed women as the root of all evil. He declared that a clean body signifies a dirty mind because he found all aspects of sexuality repugnant (Strachan & Strachan 1985:6). It is often stated that he had a 'love affair with virginity' because he saw virginity as better than marriage (Ide 1984:85).

 

snip

 

Chrysostom described women as weak and flighty, a fault of nature, evil, as temptresses and as mischievous (Knight 1974:121). Chrysostom believed that it was God who maintained the order of each sex. God gave men supremacy as leaders of business of the state, the marketplace, the administration of justice, the government and the military (Lampe 1981:124). Women, on the other hand, were assigned the presidency of the household and other so-called inferior matters (Keane 1987:5). Chrysostom wrote:

 

Among all the savage beasts none is found to be so harmful as woman. … The whole of her body is nothing less than phlegm, blood, bile, phlegm and the fluid of digested food. … If you consider what is stored up behind those lovely eyes, the angle of the nose, the mouth and the cheeks you will agree that the well-proportioned body is only a whitened sepulcher. (cited in Cooper-White 2012:72)

 

Verbum et Ecclesia
On-line version ISSN 2074-7705
Print version ISSN 1609-9982
Verbum Eccles. (Online) vol.38 n.1 Pretoria  2017
http://dx.doi.org/10.4102/ve.v38i1.1692

 

Link - http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S2074-77052017000100005

 

 

I can't believe you support this idea of Women being inferior, or that you think causing division is not always bad.

 

Especially considering the forum your on.

 

And yet you bang on about the Sabbatean-Marxists causing division and all the damage that division does but ignore the horrendous damage Christianity and Islam has done to women over the centuries.

 

Yet the church division in your eyes is good and the bad stuff in the church is because its full of Marxist's, when Marxist's didn't even exist at the time?

 

Its astounding position to take, mind boggling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 8/5/2021 at 1:10 AM, EnigmaticWorld said:

Feel free to share any of your thoughts or rants, I'll start.

 

I believe in the abolishment of class warfare. You are not rich, you are English, German, Italian etc. You are not poor, or working class, you are the aforementioned. You have more in common with your brothers and sisters than you think.

 

Anyone who wishes to move up their station in life, and has the drive and ambition to do so, should be able to.

 

Communism on the other hand, is perpetual class division. The poor are kept poor. No middle class. Just the rich and the poor. The"worker's revolution" is the cheese on the mouse trap.

 

11 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

Totally agree that class is wrong.

 

Once again who do we thank for perpetuating that in the Western World - the church.

 

Here's a bit about the Christian view on Class. Of course, as the article states, the church were originally in favour of Slavery but eventually saw the error in their ways.

 

 

CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES

 

What Christian principles, then, might be thought to be relevant to the problems of class?

 

On the one hand, there seems to be in the New Testament a general taking for granted of the institution of class; the Christian is simply exhorted to live a godly life within the framework of his society. Slaves are encouraged to 'be obedient to those that are your earthly masters' (Eph. 6: 5);  10 ' those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brethren' (1 Tim. 6: 2).

 

Christians in general are to be 'submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient' (Tit. 3: 1), and should make 'supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings ... for kings and all who are in high positions' (1 Tim. 2: 1-2).

 

Within the household (Col. 3: 18-20) and within the church (1 Tim. 5: 1; perhaps 1 Cor. 12: 28) there is likewise a hierarchy which involves distinctions of status. Nevertheless, it is worthy of observation that this acceptance of the social order by the first century church does not absolve the church of later days from the duty of constantly judging the social order in the light of the word of God. A tautologous example is the institution of slavery, which was regarded in the first century as part of the social structure within which Christian principles should be applied, but recognized later as an institution to which they should be applied.

 

 

So you see, the church promotes we submit to the ruling classes and government. 

 

If you want to get rid of class and King's and aristocracy, we need to get rid of the church, as they have supported, and instilled in the common man that they must support, this disgraceful system for the last 2000 years! 

 

 

Incidentally, as I've pointed out to Macnamara, the Church was responsible for denigrating the women as inferior and perpetuating that belief for years, even Martin Luther described women as 'a temple built over a sewer' at the time of the Reformation. And we know, even now the Church doesn't fully accept women as equal to men in the eyes of God and the Church, the Pope confirmed that last year.

 

So as this denigration resulted in women being classed as 'second class citizens' you must also, like me, find the Church misogyny abhorrent, based on the fact it reduces women to a class system.

 

There should be no class warfare between men and women.

 

Don't you agree?

 

 

 

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@EnigmaticWorld

 

Its funny about communism and class, cos although I don't agree with the Communism, I don't know enough about current communism to comment on the Russians being sold a lemon as you seem to suggest, but we have seen in the modern world, except maybe in the case of the Vatican State, communism is an awful thing, but some say Jesus was a communist.

 

Here's a Link - 

 

Christian communism


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Christian communism is a theological view that the teachings of Jesus compel Christians to support religious communism. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact dates when communistic ideas and practices in Christianity began, many Christian communists argue that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles in the New Testament, established their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection.[1] Many advocates of Christian communism and other communists, including Karl Kautsky, argue that it was taught by Jesus and practised by the apostles themselves.[2] This is generally confirmed by historians.[3]

 

Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

 

 

So if we follow Jesus - we're Communist's!

 

And if we support the Vatican State, we're supporting Communism!

 

Mussolini established the Vatican State, so if we're supporting the Vatican, we're also endorsing fascism!

 

Lol.

 

Funny how these things work out.

 

 

 

 

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I suppose really if we're talking about Class division, we should mention the Elephant in the Room - Racism.

 

Lets face it, Black people were classed as second class citizens right up until the 1960's in Christian America.

 

Thank God that stain finally ended and people aren't classed by the colour of their skin. (by most people)

 

Its shameful it took the Americans so long, I'm not entirely sure why it took until the 1960's to get full equality, I mean it was a Christian Democracy. Surely the Politicians and people knew it was wrong before then?

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13 hours ago, Macnamara said:

Is division always something to be feared? Or can we in fact respect and celebrate each others strengths?

 

Well maybe you have a point, I would say in general, division is bad.

 

Like Racism. You know some people still don't agree with mixed marriages, so unfortunately we do still have racism in society. 

 

Racist, Sexist and Class division IS bad, in my view.

 

Celebrating strengths is something different to the post I was replying to.

 

Enigmatic World, in his OP for this threads says he certainly doesn’t agree with class division.

 

Here, its in his OP, thaIs what I was replying to.

 

It is what this discussion is about.

 

Not celebrating strengths.

 

On 8/5/2021 at 1:10 AM, EnigmaticWorld said:

You are not rich, you are English, German, Italian etc. You are not poor, or working class, you are the aforementioned. You have more in common with your brothers and sisters than you think.

 

 

So lets ask him.

 

Enigmatic World, is all division bad?

 

What other divisive ideologies do you not agree with, and can you think of any divisions that are to be celebrated?

 

 

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40 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

 

Well maybe you have a point, I would say in general, division is bad.

 

Like Racism. You know some people still don't agree with mixed marriages, so unfortunately we do still have racism in society. 

 

Racist, Sexist and Class division IS bad, in my view.

 

so is a prophecy that seeks to elevate a chosen group of people above all other people who would then become their slaves 'racist'?

 

Below is a tweet showing the Argentinian leader calling for the building of the third temple and the beckoning in of the messianic age. For anyone who doesn't know the messianic age is the one where a messiah comes to elevate jews above all other people who, according to their prophecy (not my words here), will become the slaves of the jewish people. IMO the messiah can only be the Artificial Intelligence that Israel is building to sit at the centre of the smart-grid because i don't see how any one human could have the power to achieve that prophecy. The only entity capable of holding the rest of humanity down whilst elevating select, chosen people up would be artificial intelligence operating a system of control (a technocracy) which allows some people privileged access to goods and services whilst denying them to others.

 

Such a system would be achieved through PROGRAMMABLE digital currency, social credit scores, digital identities, a smart-grid of inter-connected electrical appliances which AI can switch on or off and control at anytime and a microchipped populace who have become DEPENDENT on the appliances and services controlled by the system

 

Now can you see why they try to control the food supply and push the farmers out? They need to push the farmers out so that we, the unchosen, cannot grow our own food and must go cap in hand to them and their robot farmed system to beg for scraps of bug burger and lab grown synthetic 'meat' whilst the good food is reserved for the chosen ones.

 

I wouldn't impose such a system on anyone. I wouldn't treat anyone, doesn't matter if they were jewish, christian, muslim, hindu, black, white, brown, yellow or whatever like that. I would never impose such a disgusting control system on all the children of God (humanity) and yet the conspirators who ARE trying to impose all of this on humanity would call me all kinds of names for pointing out what THEY are doing. I have no hate in my heart for humanity so ask yourself who the bad guys really are here: the people doing this horrific crime against humanity or those of us exposing it?

 

I'm not hateful ( i want all of humanity to live free), i'm not a national socialist, i'm not 'far right'.....that's all their 'micro-aggressions' that contain implied threats to try and silence anyone questioning THEIR actions and beliefs

 

 

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9 hours ago, pi3141 said:

I suppose really if we're talking about Class division, we should mention the Elephant in the Room - Racism.

 

Lets face it, Black people were classed as second class citizens right up until the 1960's in Christian America.

 

if the sabbatean jews had the power and influence to create the federal reserve and the IRS in 1913 and then the 'military industrial complex' which eisenhower warned about after world war 2 then you can't call it 'christian america' can you as the christians weren't in control

 

as for slavery lets consider who was really behind slavery shall we? The crypto-jewish, kabbalist knights templar created the nation of portugal. They renamed their order the 'knights of christ' to conceal their true nature and their grandmaster was henry the navigator.

 

The jews had essentially controlled the slave trade around the med for thousands of years and the knights templar started to explore the western seaboard of africa where they found a thriving slave trade amongst the africans. This is what led to the trans atlantic slave trade

 

The dutch jews create the central bank of holland and the dutch east india company and then they relocated to london after they bankrolled william of oranges invasion of britain. There they set up the east india company

Professor Tony Martin on documented Jewish role in the Trans Altantic Slave Trade of Africans

 

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2 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 

if the sabbatean jews had the power and influence to create the federal reserve and the IRS in 1913 and then the 'military industrial complex' which eisenhower warned about after world war 2 then you can't call it 'christian america' can you as the christians weren't in control

 

as for slavery lets consider who was really behind slavery shall we? The crypto-jewish, kabbalist knights templar created the nation of portugal. They renamed their order the 'knights of christ' to conceal their true nature and their grandmaster was henry the navigator.

 

The jews had essentially controlled the slave trade around the med for thousands of years and the knights templar started to explore the western seaboard of africa where they found a thriving slave trade amongst the africans. This is what led to the trans atlantic slave trade

 

The dutch jews create the central bank of holland and the dutch east india company and then they relocated to london after they bankrolled william of oranges invasion of britain. There they set up the east india company

Professor Tony Martin on documented Jewish role in the Trans Altantic Slave Trade of Africans

 

 

Did the crypto-kabbalist-sabatean-Jews also write the Bible?

 

How do you account for this instruction in the Christian Bible written long before the Knights Templar.

 

Ephesians 6 1
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.

 

That is the Christian Bible written 1000 years before the Knights Templar.

 

So are you now going to claim crypto-sabbatean-kabbalistic-Jews are responsible for that verse in our Christian Bible?

 

Perhaps the Apostle Paul was a crypto-Jew?

 

If so, how can we trust the Bible?

 

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On 2/10/2024 at 3:47 PM, pi3141 said:

then the church is full of Crypto-Jews who are using the institution of the church to further their Jewish plans.

 

On 2/10/2024 at 4:37 PM, Macnamara said:

full of freemasons and marxists yes

 

Was Jesus a Freemason or Marxist?

 

What did Jesus Say About Slavery?
Posted on October 20, 2011 | 146 Comments
[This post is a Beagle’s Bark. It is part of a series on biblical slavery.]

 

Jesus was a great reformer. In an age of extreme class division and status-consciousness, he identified with the poor and urged us to do the same. During a time when the Holy Land was occupied by a foreign power, he taught his countrymen how to maintain their dignity. When the religious leaders were corrupt, he called them to account.

So I find it puzzling that he never spoke a word against slavery, as far as we know.

 

snip

 

Slavery Was Brutal, and Jesus Knew It

Since Jesus never condemned slavery, we might hope that he thought of slavery in the relatively benign forms that are sometimes found in the Old Testament. Not so. When he spoke about the relationship between slaves and masters, he assumed that violence and abuse were the order of the day. Typical is Luke 12:47-48, where even a servant who doesn’t know what he ought to do gets beaten.

 

The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows.

 

That passage is part of a larger parable that is supposed to scare us into submission to God. Like a slave or servant, we will be physically harmed if we’re not good enough.

There are several parables like this in the gospels. Matthew 18:23-35 says we will be jailed and tortured. Matthew 25:14-30 says we will be cast into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51 says we will be cut in pieces. All of these indicate how Jesus pictured masters treating their slaves.

 

The Golden Rule Evidently Did Not Apply to Slaves

One might say that when Jesus gave the Golden Rule (“love your neighbor as yourself,” or “do to others what you would have them do to you“) he implied that slavery was wrong. If we should treat others as we want them to treat us, that means we shouldn’t enslave them, right?

 

This is obvious to us in the 21st century, and had even become obvious to abolitionists by the 19th century, but let us remember that it wasn’t obvious to large swaths of “Founded as a Christian Nation” America for over 200 years. And it certainly wasn’t obvious in Bible times — the context of Jesus’ address.

To see why, remember that Jesus did not invent the Golden Rule. He was quoting it from verse 18 of the passage Leviticus 19:11-18, where the same principle, “love your neighbor as yourself” sums up the other commands in the passage, just as Jesus said that the Golden Rule sums up the Law and the Prophets (Matthew 7:12 and Matthew 22:36-40).

 

Jesus’ audience, well-versed in their scriptures, would have known that he was quoting from Leviticus, one of the “Five Books of Moses.” They would also have known that these books include Deuteronomy, which commands Israel to invade and enslave distant cities, and Exodus, which says that slaves are just “property” and may be beaten so severely that they can’t even get up for just shy of two days. Unless we are prepared to say that one book of the Pentateuch contradicts another, it’s hard to see how the Golden Rule in Leviticus overrides the slavery passages Deuteronomy and Exodus — at least not for Jesus’ audience.

 

For that matter, Leviticus itself grants Israel permission to buy foreign slaves. Would Jesus’ audience have thought Leviticus could contradict itself? Would Jesus? Would today’s Bible-believing Christians? I think not.

 

So, in the minds of Jesus’ audience, and possibly for Jesus himself, it would have been far from obvious that the Golden Rule outlawed slavery. In their minds, the two concepts had coexisted in the scriptures, presumably without contradiction, for centuries.

 

If Jesus had intended his statement of Leviticus 19:18 to override the slavery commands and regulations also found in the Five Books of Moses, surely he would have made that more obvious to an audience for whom those books were a central feature of spiritual life.

 

But in fact, Jesus’ explicit statements about the Hebrew scriptures were overwhelmingly supportive, as when he said, “…anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands [of the Law] and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19).

 

At a minimum, we can say that if Jesus meant the Golden Rule as a command to abolish slavery, then millions of slaves in the next 1800 years would wish he had made his intent far more obvious.

 

Jesus Was a Reformer, But Not with Slavery

Might Jesus have thought it was not yet the time to speak against slavery? Was he afraid of upsetting the social order and bringing persecution on his followers?

On the contrary, Jesus did not hesitate to turn society upside-down. Sometimes he did so literally, as when he upset the tables of the money-changers in the temple (John 2:13-17). At other times, he made radical demands such as giving away all one’s money (Matthew 19:16-24). He did not hesitate to speak boldly to those in power (Matthew 23:13-36). Nor was he afraid of persecution, calling it a blessing (Matthew 5:10-12).

 

Jesus did not hesitate to speak his mind, yet he never condemned slavery. Clearly he either thought it was just fine or he didn’t care much about it one way or the other. Maybe he just took it for granted.

 

Link - https://pathofthebeagle.com/2011/10/20/what-did-jesus-say-about-slavery/

 

 

So slavery was in the Church long before the Jewish or Freemasonic or Marxist supporting networks infiltration, or the Crypto-Jewish Knights Templar, unless your now claiming Jesus himself as a crypto-jew.

 

Although of course you could claim, as I claim, that Jesus' works and words have been corrupted and twisted to suit an agenda.

 

But then you don't agree with my view of the Church and its interpretation of Jesus' teachings and the scriptures, do you.

 

You've generally got a more intellectually nuanced view that pins everything on Crypto-Sabatean-Jews with the help of crypto-jewish-Freemasons and crypto-jewish-marxists.

 

Where as I think its probably a bit more complicated than that, but not to the extent where I believe in 'Satan's Net' or anything that outlandish.

 

Lol.

 

Anyway, this is a political thread, on a political forum, lets not derail it anymore - I originally just pointed out how the Church supported the Class system that Enigmatic World said he wants to see abolished as the opening post stated, I thought this was a Political discussion! Lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

Slavery Was Brutal, and Jesus Knew It

Since Jesus never condemned slavery, we might hope that he thought of slavery in the relatively benign forms that are sometimes found in the Old Testament. Not so. When he spoke about the relationship between slaves and masters, he assumed that violence and abuse were the order of the day. Typical is Luke 12:47-48, where even a servant who doesn’t know what he ought to do gets beaten.

 

The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows.

 

that would be jewish society in the middle east that's being described there though wouldn't it?

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8 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

Did the crypto-kabbalist-sabatean-Jews also write the Bible?

 

How do you account for this instruction in the Christian Bible written long before the Knights Templar.

 

the knights templar were involved in the slave trade and the sugar trade which then moved to the americas. The arabs and jews were heavily involved in the slave trade in egypt, north africa, the levant and beyond. Slavery was rife throughout africa and beyond

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14 hours ago, Macnamara said:

That would be jewish society in the middle east that's being described there though wouldn't it?

 

Yes.

 

The Jewish society that got out of their own slavery in Babylon 500 years before.

 

You do understand slavery has been going on longer than the existence of the Jews and that the Jews were in slavery before the creation of Jusaism and hence slavery was not invented by the Jews?

 

How could Jews invent slavery, when they were in slavery before they got given Judaism by their own slave masters?

 

Would you like me to provide you links on the history of slavery?

 

It goes back a long time, even before the Jews.

 

I'm surprised you don't know this.

 

Actually, no I'm not surprised. 

 

 

 

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Can't believe I have to post this, but it seems necessary.

 

For anyone who wants to know the truth, just Google 'history of slavery' or something similar and read a few posts, preferably from scholarly or otherwise reputable sources.

 

 

THE HISTORY OF SLAVERY
The history of slavery is a large and untellable story, full of tragedy and cruelty that spans both centuries and continents. Although it is difficult to pinpoint the exact year that slavery began, historians can trace the roots of this inhumane practice back roughly 11,000 years. Keep reading to learn about the origins of slavery, how it developed across ancient cultures and what you can do to help end slavery for Haitian children.

 

THE ORIGINS OF THE SLAVERY PRACTICE
The precise beginning of slavery is difficult to track because its origins predate historical recording and the written word. Due to the sociological makeup of the groups, we know that slavery wasn’t a part of hunter-gatherer societies, so the first identifiable evidence of slavery comes from the Code of Hammurabi out of Mesopotamia. This ancient text refers to slavery as a common practice throughout the region which had been in place for thousands of years at the time it was written.

 

Slavery Throughout the Ancient World

The practice of human slavery grew as the world became more civilized and organized cities and farms were developed. Sumer or Sumeria is still thought to be the birthplace of slavery, which grew out of Sumer into Greece and other parts of ancient Mesopotamia. The Ancient East, specifically China and India, didn’t adopt the practice of slavery until much later, as late as the Qin Dynasty in 221 BC. Historians debate whether or not the practice of slavery in India existed before this time, but many believe argue against its existence as there is no word in ancient Sanskrit that can be translated as “slave.”

 

 

Link - https://restavekfreedom.org/2018/09/11/the-history-of-slavery/

 

 

Jews did not invent slavery.

 

Now please, lets get back to Politics.

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9 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

Yes.

 

The Jewish society that got out of their own slavery in Babylon 500 years before.

 

You do understand slavery has been going on longer than the existence of the Jews and that the Jews were in slavery before the creation of Jusaism and hence slavery was not invented by the Jews?

 

How could Jews invent slavery, when they were in slavery before they got given Judaism by their own slave masters?

 

Would you like me to provide you links on the history of slavery?

 

It goes back a long time, even before the Jews.

 

I'm surprised you don't know this.

 

Actually, no I'm not surprised.

 

i didn't say jews invented slavery.

 

you posted something from the bible claiming it was some sort of damning evidence against christianity and i simply pointed out that the society being protrayed in the bible, namely the society jesus was in 2000 years ago, was jewish society therefore the situation being described would be one in jewish society wouldn't it?

 

yes slavery is old and ubiquitous and was widespread before christianity came into being. Islam did not stop slavery and neither did judaism. It was christian abolitionists who fought against slavery

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8 hours ago, pi3141 said:

For anyone who wants to know the truth, just Google 'history of slavery' or something similar and read a few posts,

 

the problem with 'googling' anything is that google was created by DARPA which is a wing of the pentagon

 

that whole big tech scene is controlled by the intelligence services as we saw with the twitter files and those intelligence services go back to mossad from israel and the CIA who recruit their key members from the skull and crossbones society at Yale which is populated by old templar bloodlines from europe who are old kabbalist magicians.

 

You'd do well to find anything true using regular search engines because in the time i've been using the internet it has been completely purged of much of the information that used to be so easy to find. What you will likely find is a load of articles posted by israeli and jewish publications giving their biased perspective on these matters

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On 2/12/2024 at 7:54 PM, Macnamara said:

you posted something from the bible claiming it was some sort of damning evidence against christianity and i simply pointed out that the society being protrayed in the bible, namely the society jesus was in 2000 years ago, was jewish society therefore the situation being described would be one in jewish society wouldn't it?

 

 

No.

 

It would have been what Jesus had seen and knew of regarding slavery in all the societies he had visited and all the knowledge he had of how slaves were treated in any culture he was aware of - that would not necessarily have been only Jewish society. 

 

Can you prove otherwise?

 

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On 2/12/2024 at 7:58 PM, Macnamara said:

 

the problem with 'googling' anything is that google was created by DARPA which is a wing of the pentagon

 

that whole big tech scene is controlled by the intelligence services as we saw with the twitter files and those intelligence services go back to mossad from israel and the CIA who recruit their key members from the skull and crossbones society at Yale which is populated by old templar bloodlines from europe who are old kabbalist magicians.

 

You'd do well to find anything true using regular search engines because in the time i've been using the internet it has been completely purged of much of the information that used to be so easy to find. What you will likely find is a load of articles posted by israeli and jewish publications giving their biased perspective on these matters

 

Do you also use Tor? I only use DuckDuckGo when I'm on the dark web but although Google has reduced it search ability to show everything like it used to, I mainly look for scholarly articles on Google, preferably from Educational Institutions, and so I am pretty convinced that the results I get are legitimate and not fake university sites hosted by DARPA etc.

 

Its only if you go off the beaten track looking for scholarly references on certain platforms you need to worry. But using Tor with DuckDuckGo you can search anything and see whats out there.

 

Places like Stormfront are only on Dark Web so if you want to go looking at the stuff on there and places like it you have to use TOR, its the only way.

 

I should say if anyone wants to do this stuff, you should use a Virtual machine. I run Kali Linux on VMware, obviously behind a VPN.

 

Edit: You don't actually believe that 'Satans Net'' thread do you, where some higher agency spoofs scholarly websites and tailors every individual search to some disinfo specifically targeted at them, to keep us all guessing by using a Truman Show style technology to watch us all? Do you?

 

 

Edited by pi3141
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18 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Do you also use Tor? I only use DuckDuckGo when I'm on the dark web but although Google has reduced it search ability to show everything like it used to, I mainly look for scholarly articles on Google, preferably from Educational Institutions, and so I am pretty convinced that the results I get are legitimate and not fake university sites hosted by DARPA etc

 

Places like Stormfront are only on Dark Web so if you want to go looking at the stuff on there and places like it you have to use TOR, its the only way.

 

TOR was created by the US military

I don't use the dark web

I have never used stormfront nor have any intention to. I'll leave that to you

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18 hours ago, pi3141 said:

It would have been what Jesus had seen and knew of regarding slavery in all the societies he had visited and all the knowledge he had of how slaves were treated in any culture he was aware of - that would not necessarily have been only Jewish society.

 

The point being that you are trying to blame christianity for slavery when the reality is that slavery existed across the world when christianity came into existence and whilst no one else tried to end slavery, christian abolitionists did

 

shouldn't you give some credit where credit is due instead of constantly trying to twist reality out of shape?

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40 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

The point being that you are trying to blame christianity for slavery 

 

No I am not, your twisting reality as usual.

 

I am blaming the Church for upholding the Class system.

 

Then the conversation got dragged to slavery and I pointed out the Christian Church did not stand against slavery from the beginning of its history and nor did Jesus.

 

I quite plainly posted about the history of slavery going back 11000 years, as best as scholars can tell.

 

It's in a previous post on this thread. 

 

So don't try and twist it that I'm blaming Christianity for creating slavery.

 

I'm aware of the games you play, misrepresenting what I've said to try and deflect from your errors.

 

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56 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

No I am not, your twisting reality as usual.

 

I am blaming the Church for upholding the Class system.

 

Then the conversation got dragged to slavery and I pointed out the Christian Church did not stand against slavery from the beginning of its history and nor did Jesus.

 

you said this:

On 2/10/2024 at 11:51 AM, pi3141 said:

Here's a bit about the Christian view on Class. Of course, as the article states, the church were originally in favour of Slavery but eventually saw the error in their ways.

 

so i made the point that slavery was existent around the world when christianity began so your argument that the church was 'originally in favour of slavery' isn't really being fair is it because it is applying a standard to christianity that is not being applied to the world around it out of which it developed

 

that world did not want to get rid of slavery but christian abolitionists DID so when are you going to give fair and reasonable credit where it's due?

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2 hours ago, Macnamara said:

 

TOR was created by the US military

I don't use the dark web

I have never used stormfront nor have any intention to. I'll leave that to you

 

On May 30, 2016, The Tor Project, Inc made DuckDuckGo the default search engine for Tor Browser 6.0.

 

https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/31/tor-switches-to-duckduckgo-search-results-by-default/

 

In November 2019, Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey revealed his preference for using the DuckDuckGo search engine rather than Google, stating, "I love @DuckDuckGo. My default search engine for a while now. The app is even better!".[104] Conservative political commentators Ben Shapiro [ex-editor-at-large of Breitbart News] and Dan Bongino have also endorsed DuckDuckGo.[105]

 

Edited by Grumpy Grapes
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26 minutes ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

 

On May 30, 2016, The Tor Project, Inc made DuckDuckGo the default search engine for Tor Browser 6.0.

 

duck duck go is a joke and google came out of darpa

 

that whole big tech arena is controlled by the cabal and is coming out of the intelligence agencies

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49 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

So i made the point that slavery was existent around the world when christianity began so your argument that the church was 'originally in favour of slavery' isn't really being fair is it

 

Yes it is being fair and accurate.

 

The Church did not preach against slavery from their beginning. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Macnamara said:

 

duck duck go is a joke and google came out of darpa

 

that whole big tech arena is controlled by the cabal and is coming out of the intelligence agencies

 

DuckDuckGo founder Gabriel Weinberg and Microsoft President Bradford Smith are both on the advisory Council of Princeton University's

Center for Information Technology Policy (CITP)

 

https://citp.princeton.edu/people/filters/#advisory-council

 

Edited by Grumpy Grapes
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