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There's a lot of evidence to show that counter culture was promoted from behind the scenes by people involved in the occult, but apart from extreme right wing politicians obviously manipulating the skinhead scene for their own agenda (and a lot of them were into the occult), I don't think they were involved with the inception of the skinhead subculture.

 

 

 

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Just now, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

Agreed. I don't want to sound like a purity spiraler though. I still have my guilty pleasures even if I feel like I can see stuff for what it is. I do mostly just listen to chill instrumental content these days, but I would be lying if I said I don't ever play any mainstream music.

 

Same here. Better to do wrong things for the right reasons, than to do right things for the wrong reasons.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, RobSS said:

There's a lot of evidence to show that counter culture was promoted from behind the scenes by people involved in the occult, but apart from extreme right wing politicians obviously manipulating the skinhead scene for their own agenda (and a lot of them were into the occult), I don't think they were involved with the inception of the skinhead subculture.

 

Got any examples of the extreme right-wing politicians that were doing that so I can see if they was really that extreme? Forgive my ignorance, but I grew up on stuff like Oasis, Blur, and hip hop, so that's before my time.

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3 minutes ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

Got any examples of the extreme right-wing politicians that were doing that so I can see if they was really that extreme? Forgive my ignorance, but I grew up on stuff like Oasis, Blur, and hip hop, so that's before my time.

 

A lot of the top brass of the British Movement and the National Front recruited skinheads and tried to co-opt and influence the skinhead scene for their own political agenda.

 

In the early days, most skinhead bands weren't a product of the commercial pop industrial complex either, they started at the grassroots level, in garages, living rooms, and in small venues. Later, as they became more successful, and more popular, they become commercial, but fame and wordly success often corrupts, and bands loose touch with their roots.

 

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1 minute ago, RobSS said:

 

A lot of the top brass of the British Movement and the National Front recruited skinheads and tried to co-opt and influence the skinhead scene for their own political agenda.

 

In the early days, most skinhead bands weren't a product of the commercial pop industrial complex either, they started at the grassroots level, in garages, living rooms, and in small venues. Later, as they became more successful, and more popular, they become commercial, but fame and wordly success often corrupts, and bands loose touch with their roots.

 

 

Not sure why. I would have thought real Nationalists would have thought it was all decadent, but I don't trust NF anyway.

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7 minutes ago, Golden Retriever said:

 

It was a rhetorical question for those still too blind to see. 💗

 

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I know, it's cool, GR.

 

I can see who has their fingerprints all over the mainstream music of my generation, and even a lot of it before my time.

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8 minutes ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

I know, it's cool, GR.

 

I can see who has their fingerprints all over the mainstream music of my generation, and even a lot of it before my time.

 

Think of all the youth influenced from this satanic song and look at all those needles!

 

192,000,000 views .... it breaks my heart to see such evilness directed at her young fans.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

Not sure why. I would have thought real Nationalists would have thought it was all decadent, but I don't trust NF anyway.

 

It was because of the masculinity. The skinhead archetype stood for the opposite of decadence... the image was clean cut, no mess no fuss, etc. Originally partly a reaction to the decadence of the hippies. Although some of the music hall vibe had influences from the Caribbean, with ska music, it was made in England.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, RobSS said:

 

It was because of the masculinity. The skinhead archetype stood for the opposite of decadence... the image was clean cut, no mess no fuss, etc. Originally partly a reaction to the decadence of the hippies. Although some of the music hall vibe had influences from the Caribbean, with ska music, it was made in England.

 

 

 

I don't think they were feminine, just part of our decline and a bit obnoxious, but that's an issue with mainstream music in general, not just that genre. I think British lads could have been doing more productive things.

 

I don't mind Madness, but I'm just not sure if it's progress. Look at this twat in this vid dancing around in the ballet outfit for example, is he mocking tradition?

 

 

It's not in the Baby Blue and Sway version though, but I guess they can't push that kind of stuff to the hip hop heads.

 

I dunno, I probably just take things too seriously, but eveything just seems to remind me of how my countries slowly gone down the shitter.

 

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@RobSS

 

To be fair, I'm from the new generation of younger right-wingers that are craving tradition because we're getting pissed with modernity. You could show me most mainstream music and I would probably give you a grumpy negative response. The skinhead and ska movements were much better than most shite, so don't take what I say too seriously.

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1 hour ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

I don't think they were feminine, just part of our decline and a bit obnoxious, but that's an issue with mainstream music in general, not just that genre. I think British lads could have been doing more productive things.

 

 

You're doing what the mainstream media did to undermine the skinhead scene, they took the worst aspects and then liberally tarred everyone associated with it, with very large brush brush strokes. Also, many skinheads were productise and have gone on to achieve things they might not otherwise have achieved.

 

1 hour ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

I don't mind Madness, but I'm just not sure if it's progress. Look at this twat in this vid dancing around in the ballet outfit for example, is he mocking tradition?

 

It's not in the Baby Blue and Sway version though, but I guess they can't push that kind of stuff to the hip hop heads.

 

I dunno, I probably just take things too seriously, but eveything just seems to remind me of how my countries slowly gone down the shitter.

 

 

What you're referring to is late Madness, long after they became successful and mainstream. They were nothing like that in their early days. Unfortunately, people change as they get older and that applies to most of the population who aren't even in the performance world.

 

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1 minute ago, RobSS said:

Also, many skinheads were productise and have gone on to achieve things they might not otherwise have achieved.

 

Well I agree that many young lads that got into the music scene have achieved things on a personal level, but I'm more concerned about what influence things have on society on a wider level.

 

Some could argue that drill artists or gangster rappers have achieved things that they might not otherwise have if they stayed on the streets, but they're still promoting bad things to society. I know that's not really a good comparison as they're obviously more violent than the musicians that you're talking about.

 

16 minutes ago, RobSS said:

What you're referring to is late Madness, long after they became successful and mainstream. They were nothing like that in their early days. Unfortunately, people change as they get older and that applies to most of the population who aren't even in the performance world.

 

I don't just mean newer stuff though. My mum is a big Madness fan and it's something that was often playing in my home growing up, so I'm familiar with the older content. It's just all a bit jazzy for my current tastes and I don't really identify with certain things anymore.

 

I was listening to some 2 tone mix earlier after listening to One Step Beyond. It was alright, and I probably would have digged it more a few years back, just a lot of music doesn't hold my attention for long. I dunno, I feel like I have programmed my brain to enjoy different stuff these days and it's hard to go back.

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@RobSS

 

The thing is, I have just been listening to a lot orchestral instrumental soundtracks over the last few years, and I'm not really sure what I would actually listen to in a party environment now if it was me that had to pick the music. I'm not really one for clubbing or partying these days and neither are my pals, so it's not really something I have had to think about. I wouldn't want to be a killjoy though as I understand others still like to enjoy themselves, so I guess it would just be what others want.

Edited by EnigmaticWorld
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8 hours ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

Well I agree that many young lads that got into the music scene have achieved things on a personal level, but I'm more concerned about what influence things have on society on a wider level.

 

This sounds a bit too vague for me to really comment. Couldn't the same could be said of any group of people?

 

8 hours ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

Some could argue that drill artists or gangster rappers have achieved things that they might not otherwise have if they stayed on the streets, but they're still promoting bad things to society. I know that's not really a good comparison as they're obviously more violent than the musicians that you're talking about.

 

I agree, I don't think that's a good comparison really.

 

8 hours ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

I don't just mean newer stuff though. My mum is a big Madness fan and it's something that was often playing in my home growing up, so I'm familiar with the older content. It's just all a bit jazzy for my current tastes and I don't really identify with certain things anymore.

 

I was listening to some 2 tone mix earlier after listening to One Step Beyond. It was alright, and I probably would have digged it more a few years back, just a lot of music doesn't hold my attention for long. I dunno, I feel like I have programmed my brain to enjoy different stuff these days and it's hard to go back.

 

It's a question of personal taste, of course!

 

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7 hours ago, Nobby Noboddy said:

I stopped listening to anything but classical music a few years back.

 

Started listening to radio 3 for a few years but they play a great deal of shit now.

 

I can actually tolerate the adverts on classic FM because they only play pleasant stuff.

 

 

I spend a lot of time with classical musicians. Classical music is my main interest. I particularly like medieval literature and chivalric legends, especially when it's combined with music drama.

 

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9 hours ago, RobSS said:

Couldn't the same could be said of any group of people?

 

Not just any group of people have a disproportionate amount of power within the entertainment industry.

 

Put it this way, your first response was with that 'Ghost Town' video. Am I supposed to believe that authentic counterculture is mainstream music videos that are allowed on television? That sounds absurd. That's not to say that some things might not start off authentic as you say, but I can't really comment on that unless I look into Ska and Skinhead culture more. If they're anything like other genres then I reckon I will see the usual kind of names popping up behind the scenes.

 

Why is it that these supposed counterculture movements were allowed to flourish back then? Do you not think it's because it was in the elites interest to chip away at tradition? Where are they all now that we're being screwed by postmodernists? Some are talking up I would imagine, but not many.

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1 hour ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

Not just any group of people have a disproportionate amount of power within the entertainment industry.

 

It's true that a group may have a disproportionate amount of power within the entertainment industry but it doesn't mean to say that every single member of that group is part of that mindset, and that's certainly not the case. It's complete nonsense to make anyone who's innocent by association, which is what the mainstream media does. If people within the "Truth" movement use the 'guilt by association' trick, then how can these very same "Truthers" complain when the mainstream media tries to make all people involved in opposing oppression out to be loony racists and extremists?

 

1 hour ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

Put it this way, your first response was with that 'Ghost Town' video. Am I supposed to believe that authentic counterculture is mainstream music videos that are allowed on television? That sounds absurd.

 

 

What's actually absurd is claiming that anyone who's ever appeared on the mainstream media should be classed as being inauthentic. David Icke has appeared on the mainstream media more times than I can remember. It doesn't mean he's automatically inauthentic.

 

1 hour ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

That's not to say that some things might not start off authentic as you say, but I can't really comment on that unless I look into Ska and Skinhead culture more. If they're anything like other genres then I reckon I will see the usual kind of names popping up behind the scenes.

 

I haven't heard of anyone who manufactured the skinhead scene. It's well documented that it grew out of working class culture, but as has already been mentioned, by the mid to late 80's there were some who tried to co-opt the culture for their own agenda.

 

1 hour ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

Why is it that these supposed counterculture movements were allowed to flourish back then? Do you not think it's because it was in the elites interest to chip away at tradition? Where are they all now that we're being screwed by postmodernists? Some are talking up I would imagine, but not many.

 

 

I'll agree with you about most, if not all youth cultures that there have been, but I think the skinhead culture was a definite exception. It was raw, essentially masculine and working class - everything the elite and mainstream don't like. If urban cities are like jungles, then skinheads were the wolves. There's something quite primordial about being a skinhead. It was about speaking your mind, getting back to basics. It wasn't perfect, but relative to everything else, past and present, I can't think of anything that could be more nakedly honest. It was also full of self-irony.

 

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Edited by RobSS
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On 9/2/2021 at 4:55 AM, RobSS said:

 

I spend a lot of time with classical musicians. Classical music is my main interest. I particularly like medieval literature and chivalric legends, especially when it's combined with music drama.

 

 

7 hours ago, Nobby Noboddy said:

Favourites? I like Tallis, although a dodgy guy.

 

The Master Singers of Nuremberg I like, along with things like The Ring of the Nibelung and Lohengrin, all Wagner music dramas.

 

I'm not very familiar with Tallis. Why do you like Tallis?

 

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