The Cross in Christianity

[Mr H]

So I've had some experiences with Christianity fairly recently which is direct personal experience. This has sparked my interest into looking more into the "theory" or teachings of Christianity which brings my attention to the cross.

 

Firstly I should point out that I speak from a place of ignorance here...

 

And I would also like to frame the context - that my experiences the past decade or so, is that almost everything in society is an inversion of the truth.

 

So this leads me to the cross and as someone not brought up in religious background - to me on the face of it, I am thinking here, is this constant depiction of Christ on the cross, which seems to be the main symbol for the religion - another inversion? Sold to the public as something else.

 

I say this because just looking at it, at face value. (this is where you need to accommodate my ignorance) It looks like the Pope, the Catholics or whoever came out and popularised this is taking the piss.

 

Isn't this just a constant reminder, that "they" killed the lord? And in a twisted way they have inverted that and got people to see this as some kind of celebration that he died for our sins?

 

To me just on face of it, it seems almost blasphemous to display constantly that they got him, and basically strung him up like an animal.

 

I'm aware that other symbols were used in the early days, they seem a lot more loving and peaceful on the face of it. Just curious how they faded away, and this cross thing, promoted by the vatican has been taken up.

 

But perhaps I'm looking at this the wrong way?

 

Does anyone have any knowledge/opinions about the history of the cross in Christianity?

[BlueSky]

[pi3141]

The cross is fascinating. The Christians have elevated it to a focus of worship and unfortunately this means they focus on Jesus' death, hence some people call them a
death worship cult.

 

On a zodiac symbol with the signs arranged in a circle the cross in the middle marks the solstices. There is a cross called the Greek Zodiac cross which is a cross with
all the symbols of the zodiac on. More supporting evidence that religions are sun worship cults.

 

 

 

There is an instrument called a Jacobs Staff, its basically a cross on a long pole like the one Jesus was crucified on and it is used to measure the position of the Sun, i.e. the cross is an Astronomical tool.

 

 

 

 

 

According to the Jehovah's, Jesus was not crucified on a cross but instead crucified on a stake, i.e hung from a stake until he asphyxiated.

 

Originally the symbol for the church was a Lamb. This has been taken as an astrological theme meaning Jesus as the Sun was in the constellation of the Ram - Aries, the cross was adopted later.

 

An interesting side note - if you think of 'the broken cross' or the CND symbol it is said to be derived from the shadow a pole in the ground would cast at sunrise, midday and sunset. Another Astrotheological connection.

 

Then there's the Chi Ro cross that was the earliest Christian symbol formed by superimposing the letters X&P. To me it looks like a 3 dimensional representation of up down left right forward and back. It reminds me of sacred geometry where the verse 'and God moved in the void' is interpreted that in order for you to distinguish something moving in the void, as there's no point of reference, it would have to move in all directions at once. Like the symbol illustrates, then if the symbol was rotated it would circumscribe a sphere, this is the first sphere in the Flower Of Life.

 

 

Here's a Davinci painting, why's he pointing up? God is not 'up' there, he's all around us and within us so whats St John pointing to? To me he's got his Jacob Staff to measure the Sun's position and he's pointing up to the Sun as if to say 'its all about the Sun dummy'

 

 

Here's a Pagan cross, they use it in Wicca apparently.

 

 

The Druids of Europe used to find a Oak tree and cut a long branch off and hang it horizontaly on the tree to form a cross. On the cross branch they engraved the name 'Hesus'

 

The cross is a very old symbol, I believe its roots lie in Sun worship and Paganism. In short I think the cross is an astrotheological symbol for the passage of the Sun through the zodiac signs. It is a symbol of sun worship and death when the bottom pole is extended.

 

This is all just off the top of my head so to speak I could do some digging and post a lot more. Another member posted a picture with the evolution of the cross shown from its original design to its final crucifixion design, thats on here somewhere.

Edited July 5, 2021 by pi3141

[EnigmaticWorld]

 

How do we know it was a cross and not a tree? What if the black cubists pushed the cross on Christians?

[Macnamara]

There are so many layers to it all depending on who you speak to

 

The gnostic occultists say the cross is a box unfurled and that the box represents this material dimension and that jesus symbolically represents mankind crucified as it were on this cross of matter.

 

However there are other interpretations. Golgotha where jesus was crucified means the place of the skull and jesus could symbolically represent the heart which acts as a mediator between the lower nature and the ego which could be represented by the two thieves crucified on either side. Or in a similar vein you could see jesus as the corpus collosum linking the left and right hemispheres of the brain

 

Then there is the astrotheological symbology of the solar aspect with the two solstices and equinoxes and in this interpretation jesus represents the sun and/or the solar, heart chakra

 

The two lines of the cross have also been described as representing spirit and matter and the latinate church has the material line as longer than the spiritual whilst the greek othodox church has the two in harmony

 

The cross is an ancient symbol though and pre-dates christianity and some occult groups also link it to the tau and see it as a solar-phallic symbol

Edited July 5, 2021 by Macnamara

[Macnamara]

On 7/5/2021 at 12:53 PM, Macnamara said:

Then there is the astrotheological symbology of the solar aspect with the two solstices and equinoxes and in this interpretation jesus represents the sun and/or the solar, heart chakra

 

and the crossing of the sun over the equator at the vernal equinox

[wolfpavek1]

On 7/5/2021 at 10:23 AM, Mr H said:

So I've had some experiences with Christianity fairly recently which is direct personal experience. This has sparked my interest into looking more into the "theory" or teachings of Christianity which brings my attention to the cross.

 

Firstly I should point out that I speak from a place of ignorance here...

 

And I would also like to frame the context - that my experiences the past decade or so, is that almost everything in society is an inversion of the truth.

 

So this leads me to the cross and as someone not brought up in religious background - to me on the face of it, I am thinking here, is this constant depiction of Christ on the cross, which seems to be the main symbol for the religion - another inversion? Sold to the public as something else.

 

I say this because just looking at it, at face value. (this is where you need to accommodate my ignorance) It looks like the Pope, the Catholics or whoever came out and popularised this is taking the piss.

 

Isn't this just a constant reminder, that "they" killed the lord? And in a twisted way they have inverted that and got people to see this as some kind of celebration that he died for our sins?

 

To me just on face of it, it seems almost blasphemous to display constantly that they got him, and basically strung him up like an animal.

 

I'm aware that other symbols were used in the early days, they seem a lot more loving and peaceful on the face of it. Just curious how they faded away, and this cross thing, promoted by the vatican has been taken up.

 

But perhaps I'm looking at this the wrong way?

 

Does anyone have any knowledge/opinions about the history of the cross in Christianity?

Constatine returned from Istanbul to Rome and saw a cross in the sky the birth of Christianity the criss the cross it was a supernove explosion like the mago nativity story and that's why that story of reborth was added to the new world order religion.

Imagine mars explodes and leaves a huge cross that's ares in the aries farmers region  that Becomes  mars. 

 

Imagine mars ares was in Virgo the  virgin then it is suddenly in Capricorn cronos  cross that's a cosmic shift and the birth of the nwo

[Truthspoon]

That's interesting EW.

 

From my studies of Old English literature there is a strong Anglo-Saxon historical tradition that Jesus was crucified on a tree.

 

There is a famous (well famous to literature scholars of Old English) called The Dream of the Rood, which details the crucifixion of Jesus from the point of view of the Tree on which he was crucified (weird Anglo-Saxon magical anthropomorphism). Rood is the Old English word for Rod. As in a pile or stake.

 

Also interesting to see how the Anglo-Saxon mentality frames Jesus as a 'young hero'  and a 'warrior' and it may be that calling the cross a 'tree' might  be more a hang-over from Pagan Saxon nature worship beliefs.

 

Although in line 44 the English word 'cross' appears but the original still refers to a Rood: 

 

 Rod wæs ic aræred. Ahof ic ricne cyning  - As a rood (pole) I was reared, aloft I raised a King.

 

http://apocalyptic-theories.com/literature/dor/medora1.html

 

Yet as I lay there a long while
25	I beheld sorrowful the tree of the Saviour,
	until I heard it utter a sound;
	it began to speak words, the best of wood:
	"That was very long ago, I remember it still,
	that I was cut down from the edge of the wood,
30	ripped up by my roots. They seized me there, strong enemies,
	made me a spectacle for themselves there, commanded me to raise up their criminals.
	Men carried me there on their shoulders, until they set me on a hill,
	enemies enough fastened me there. I saw then the Saviour of mankind
	hasten with great zeal, as if he wanted to climb up on me.
35	There I did not dare, against the word of the Lord,
	bow or break, when I saw the
	corners of the earth tremble. I might have
	felled all the enemies; even so, I stood fast.
	He stripped himself then, young hero - that was God almighty -
40	strong and resolute; he ascended on the high gallows,
	brave in the sight of many, when he wanted to ransom mankind.
	I trembled when the warrior embraced me; even then I did not dare to bow to earth,
	fall to the corners of the earth, but I had to stand fast.
	I was reared a cross. I raised up the powerful King,
45	the Lord of heaven; I did not dare to bend.
	They pierced me with dark nails; on me are the wounds visible,
	the open wounds of malice; I did not dare to injure any of them.
	They mocked us both together. I was all drenched with blood
	poured out from that man's side after he had sent forth his spirit.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Truthspoon

[theo102]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:23 PM, Mr H said:

Does anyone have any knowledge/opinions about the history of the cross in Christianity?

 

The doctrine of the resurrection stared with Caiaphas and was developed by the writer of the gospel of John based on false testimony about the destruction and rebuilding of the temple. This doctrine was then developed by Paul, who falsely claimed to have been appointed as a minister and a witness on the road to Damascus.

 

Luke 24
44    And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45    Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46    And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

 

Hosea 6
2    After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

 

[theo102]

On 7/5/2021 at 11:53 PM, Macnamara said:

The gnostic occultists say the cross is a box unfurled and that the box represents this material dimension and that jesus symbolically represents mankind crucified as it were on this cross of matter.

 

Then there's the Kabba and teffilin.