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What kind of Christian are you?


Mr H
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I don't consider myself a Christian but I was bought up in a Church Of England denomination household.

 

I've been looking at various denominations, currently I"m interested in the Unitarians - they don't believe in the trinity, nor that Jesus was Gods son and they reject the doctrine of Original Sin and Eternal Damnation, so no Hell which I've come to learn is a Roman Christian belief and has no basis in scripture.

 

I was also going to go to a Quaker meefing, they don't appoint anyone as a vicar to lead the service as they don't believe you need a mediator between you and God, you can speak to it directly. So the congregation lead or take part in the direction of the service.

 

Now if there was a church that combined Unitarian core beliefs with Quakers Christian beliefs and the Quaker church service mentality and didn't actually have a church and just met in a park somewhere I'd be all over it!

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I don't mind the church thing. I think it's quite amazing that people have taken the time to build such great places of worship.

 

I will check out the Quakers.

 

What about the Orthodox Church? They seem to claim to be the purest worshippers of Jesus. Any experiences with them?

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1 hour ago, Mr H said:

What about the Orthodox Church? They seem to claim to be the purest worshippers of Jesus. Any experiences with them?

 

Not much experience on Orthodox but I think they reject the doctrine of Hell and Eternal Damnation like the Coptics also do. 

 

Its the worship of Jesus that gets me. First of all Jesus didn't exist as a man called Jesus, Jesus is a consolidation of several other figures, secondly, Jesus was a son of God just like we are all Sons and Daughters of God, so he wasn't special and finally the Roman devil (Satan/Lucifer) has supposedly stated he wants to take worship away from God and direct it to himself, well worshipping Jesus is taking worship away from God so I'm suspicious of it. As for Roman Catholics believing in Satan as an adversary to God, as well as worship of Mary and the Saints makes them Polytheists, they believe/worship many gods although they don't admit it.

 

So for me God is God not Jesus, God does not need 'worship' nor did Jesus, and we don't need a mediator or church vicar to have a connection to God and we certainly don't need to 'pay' for anything spiritual like buying candles for some form of dedication. Spiritualism or a connection/love for God is free and God loves you back for free. 

 

As for churches, Jesus didn't give instruction to build them and most of his sermons was outside, in nature, close to God.

 

It says in Exodus (although thats OT) if you shape a rock into an altar you have defiled it, so god knows what shaping rocks into a church and altar is, mass defilement!

Edited by pi3141
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4 hours ago, pi3141 said:

I don't consider myself a Christian but I was bought up in a Church Of England denomination household.

 

I've been looking at various denominations, currently I"m interested in the Unitarians - they don't believe in the trinity, nor that Jesus was Gods son and they reject the doctrine of Original Sin and Eternal Damnation, so no Hell which I've come to learn is a Roman Christian belief and has no basis in scripture.

 

I was also going to go to a Quaker meefing, they don't appoint anyone as a vicar to lead the service as they don't believe you need a mediator between you and God, you can speak to it directly. So the congregation lead or take part in the direction of the service.

 

Now if there was a church that combined Unitarian core beliefs with Quakers Christian beliefs and the Quaker church service mentality and didn't actually have a church and just met in a park somewhere I'd be all over it!

Really interesting. 

 

If you go on a Bible search engine and type in "hell", you get some examples of it, like this one, that I love very much, and applies to today's world.. 

 

Matthew 10:28

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

But I find it interesting that there are Christian groups like the one you described. 

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4 hours ago, pi3141 said:

I don't consider myself a Christian but I was bought up in a Church Of England denomination household.

 

I've been looking at various denominations, currently I"m interested in the Unitarians - they don't believe in the trinity, nor that Jesus was Gods son and they reject the doctrine of Original Sin and Eternal Damnation, so no Hell which I've come to learn is a Roman Christian belief and has no basis in scripture.

 

I was also going to go to a Quaker meefing, they don't appoint anyone as a vicar to lead the service as they don't believe you need a mediator between you and God, you can speak to it directly. So the congregation lead or take part in the direction of the service.

 

Now if there was a church that combined Unitarian core beliefs with Quakers Christian beliefs and the Quaker church service mentality and didn't actually have a church and just met in a park somewhere I'd be all over it!

Really interesting. 

 

If you go on a Bible search engine and type in "hell", you get some examples of it, like this one, that I love very much, and applies to today's world.. 

 

Matthew 10:28

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

But I find it interesting that there are Christian groups like the one you described. 

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4 hours ago, Mr H said:

I don't mind the church thing. I think it's quite amazing that people have taken the time to build such great places of worship.

 

I will check out the Quakers.

 

What about the Orthodox Church? They seem to claim to be the purest worshippers of Jesus. Any experiences with them?

Every sect claims to be the purest :D 

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5 hours ago, Mr H said:

I don't mind the church thing. I think it's quite amazing that people have taken the time to build such great places of worship.

 

I will check out the Quakers.

 

What about the Orthodox Church? They seem to claim to be the purest worshippers of Jesus. Any experiences with them?

 

I became a Quaker. Joined up officially and everything, though most people who go to the meetings are 'attenders'.

 

I had wanted to join for a long time as I felt it kept any demonic attachments and unresolved Illuminati business at bay. 

 

Kind of a signed declaration showing whose side you're on. But that's just me.

 

Go to you local Quaker Meeting if they have started again, they had been meeting on line with Zoom.

 

It's an hour of meditative silence, where anyone can stand up 'minister' 'if moved by the spirit' followed be tea and biscuits and chit chat. What's not to like?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Truthspoon
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The Quaker thing sounds interesting. 

 

I do meditation regularly already.

 

My question is, what makes a Quaker meeting different to a regular meditation session?

 

And how does Christianity fit into this?

 

Thanks

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29 minutes ago, Mr H said:

The Quaker thing sounds interesting. 

 

I do meditation regularly already.

 

My question is, what makes a Quaker meeting different to a regular meditation session?

 

And how does Christianity fit into this?

 

Thanks

 

Do you get tea and biscuits at a regular meditation session? I've never attended one, except the time I got locked in the Great Pyramid of Giza with a bunch of American New Agers.

 

To be fair to the Quakers, they have been doing this since the 17th Century, long before anyone in the West had any idea about Eastern meditation.

 

The Quakers started out as part of a mass cultural movement of discontents and non-conformists, in particular refusing to serve in wars and refusing to swear any oaths.

 

Quaker meetings vary and Quakers vary, the older generation can be quite conservative and almost like spiritualists, while younger Quakers are generally liberals (which sucks) and not really Christians at all. This makes it confusing for people and probably explains why a lot of people attend but don't join, because it is hard to pin down Quaker beliefs because nowadays, unfortunately, they don't have any set beliefs. 

 

Although the liberal trend seem to have taken root in Quakerism, this is something I just try to ignore and don't get involved with, as a Quaker you can plough your furrow and be true to what you think being a Quaker means. I tend to follow a lot of what George Fox said and believed though. I think the Quakers as they were, were the closest thing to a true Christian society.

 

As to how does Christianity fit in with the Quakers today? It doesn't necessarily, unfortunately. Some older Quakers (though to be honest most Quakers are old) will identify as Christians but many won't and don't.

 

I dunno. Quakerism can kind of be what you want it to be, but I suppose there is generally accepted to be a spiritual framework behind it, and a striving to help people and society as a whole. Some people join Quakerism to fulfil a need to take part in various kinds of charitable social actions, others, like me, join the Quakers for the identification with a talismanic positive spiritual identity.

 

 

Edit:

 

Now that I think of it, I think the silent worship or 'silent waiting' as they sometimes call it, may be what gives meaning to the Quaker experience. 


George Fox was very much about transcendence, transcending social norms, governments, kings, and even 'people' themselves, and heard a voice when he was young telling him to be a 'stranger to the word'. The silent worship puts you in communication with this transcendent spirit and whatever you think about that or do with the opportunity is up to you. However the meeting is generally seen as 'communal' therefore there is something of a group spirit which should be part of your focus, and not necessarily just a deep dive into your own inner world.

 

In a way these things don't have easy answers, and they shouldn't. We're dealing with human mind and the human soul and its attempt to know God..... 

 

Edited by Truthspoon
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The Quaker thing sounds very interesting and I can see how it can benefit humanity. But from what I can make out probably not for me, but thanks so much for explaining it in more detail.

 

I'm looking for something that is Jesus centric, includes worshipping and celebration of Jesus and the teachings of Jesus.

 

My spiritual background leans me towards practices such as meditation, song and dance and healings.

 

The only church I have found so far that seems to have this type of leaning seems to be the Pentecostal types churches. Will continue to look! 

 

 

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No problem. Us Quakers don't proselytise, it's not our thing. But we can answer questions to the best of our ability.

 

Glad I cleared things up for you, good luck on your path.

 

By the way Jesus is not really a focus of the Quaker experience and so much the pity. 


But I got into Quakerism for other reasons which I hope I explained. I already have a relationship so to speak, with Jesus. 

 

Though something like a discussion group about Jesus would be interesting and if and when I return to the UK I might actually start one up within my local Quaker meeting or even at Friends House.

 

I know 'discussion group' sounds a little academic but that's how Quakers do things, it's about meetings and discussions. Not so much of the songs of praise or anything like....so much the pity. Nowt wrong with a nice sing song.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Truthspoon
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2 hours ago, Truthspoon said:

 

Do you get tea and biscuits at a regular meditation session? I've never attended one, except the time I got locked in the Great Pyramid of Giza with a bunch of American New Agers.

 

To be fair to the Quakers, they have been doing this since the 17th Century, long before anyone in the West had any idea about Eastern meditation.

 

The Quakers started out as part of a mass cultural movement of discontents and non-conformists, in particular refusing to serve in wars and refusing to swear any oaths.

 

Quaker meetings vary and Quakers vary, the older generation can be quite conservative and almost like spiritualists, while younger Quakers are generally liberals (which sucks) and not really Christians at all. This makes it confusing for people and probably explains why a lot of people attend but don't join, because it is hard to pin down Quaker beliefs because nowadays, unfortunately, they don't have any set beliefs. 

 

Although the liberal trend seem to have taken root in Quakerism, this is something I just try to ignore and don't get involved with, as a Quaker you can plough your furrow and be true to what you think being a Quaker means. I tend to follow a lot of what George Fox said and believed though. I think the Quakers as they were, were the closest thing to a true Christian society.

 

As to how does Christianity fit in with the Quakers today? It doesn't necessarily, unfortunately. Some older Quakers (though to be honest most Quakers are old) will identify as Christians but many won't and don't.

 

I dunno. Quakerism can kind of be what you want it to be, but I suppose there is generally accepted to be a spiritual framework behind it, and a striving to help people and society as a whole. Some people join Quakerism to fulfil a need to take part in various kinds of charitable social actions, others, like me, join the Quakers for the identification with a talismanic positive spiritual identity.

 

 

Edit:

 

Now that I think of it, I think the silent worship or 'silent waiting' as they sometimes call it, may be what gives meaning to the Quaker experience. 


George Fox was very much about transcendence, transcending social norms, governments, kings, and even 'people' themselves, and heard a voice when he was young telling him to be a 'stranger to the word'. The silent worship puts you in communication with this transcendent spirit and whatever you think about that or do with the opportunity is up to you. However the meeting is generally seen as 'communal' therefore there is something of a group spirit which should be part of your focus, and not necessarily just a deep dive into your own inner world.

 

In a way these things don't have easy answers, and they shouldn't. We're dealing with human mind and the human soul and its attempt to know God..... 

 

You were locked up in the pyramid? What was that like? 

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6 hours ago, Weedo said:

You were locked up in the pyramid? What was that like? 

 

A surprise when I tried to leave and found the gate closed.

 

I'd gone just before midday and found that they close it to the public for an hour or so between 12 and 1pm and rent it to private groups.

 

There were a load of American New Age Hippy type things who were in there meditating. Fair play to them I guess.

 

 

Edited by Truthspoon
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On 7/3/2021 at 1:29 PM, Mr H said:

I don't mind the church thing. I think it's quite amazing that people have taken the time to build such great places of worship.

 

I will check out the Quakers.

 

What about the Orthodox Church? They seem to claim to be the purest worshippers of Jesus. Any experiences with them?

Orthodox Christians don't worship Jesus, and they don't pray to Jesus either. Why would you worship and pray to a son, when you have the father available? Jesus Christ is considered a part of the trinity, part of God, but is far less "important" than he is to Catholics.

 

On the church thing, that is simply wrong. I mean, Jesus said to people to keep their faith private, and not to pray in masses. If we asked him, I'm rather sure that he would be against churches and organised religion in general.

 

Have you heard of Bogumili? Now those were real followers of teaching of Jesus Christ, but "christians" killed them all.

 

Kind regards..

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30 minutes ago, XelNaga said:

Orthodox Christians don't worship Jesus, and they don't pray to Jesus either. Why would you worship and pray to a son, when you have the father available? Jesus Christ is considered a part of the trinity, part of God, but is far less "important" than he is to Catholics.

 

On the church thing, that is simply wrong. I mean, Jesus said to people to keep their faith private, and not to pray in masses. If we asked him, I'm rather sure that he would be against churches and organised religion in general.

 

Have you heard of Bogumili? Now those were real followers of teaching of Jesus Christ, but "christians" killed them all.

 

Kind regards..

I'm not sure it was "wrong" it was merely my opinion :)

 

But your point about Jesus advocating private faith practice is interesting. Because I have come to this via experience, I don't have the "theory" so to speak, i.e. I don't know the bible at all (just reading now). So I do not know about his teachings other than what he has taught via personal experience. I can definitely see this point though and you can see how mass organised religion hasn't been helpful to a lot of folks. I guess it is my feeling of "being" lost or wishing to meet people with similar experiences that is behind my drive to find a community of worship.

 

I haven't heard of Bogumili. Quick check - seems to be related to the Gnostics somehow? 

 

Seems to be very difficult to find Gnostic gps. I have tried previously

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2 minutes ago, Mr H said:

I'm not sure it was "wrong" it was merely my opinion :)

 

But your point about Jesus advocating private faith practice is interesting. Because I have come to this via experience, I don't have the "theory" so to speak, i.e. I don't know the bible at all (just reading now). So I do not know about his teachings other than what he has taught via personal experience. I can definitely see this point though and you can see how mass organised religion hasn't been helpful to a lot of folks. I guess it is my feeling of "being" lost or wishing to meet people with similar experiences that is behind my drive to find a community of worship.

 

I haven't heard of Bogumili. Quick check - seems to be related to the Gnostics somehow? 

 

Seems to be very difficult to find Gnostic gps. I have tried previously

My apologies brother if it seemed that I was saying that you are wrong, what I ment was that the whole church thing is wrong, as was also stated by Jesus Christ. I mean, God is everything, God is everywhere, God is inside of us. So we can speak with him whenever and wherever we want.

 

They were and were not connected to Gnostics, they only had one thing in common: they were against christian church. Not much is known about them widely, as they were from Balkans (that place that the west is portraying as hell itself, which is BS ofcourse). But in short: they believed that Jesus wasn't a literal God or son of God, but they looked at him as a wise teacher and practised his way. They were against money, didn't have a leader and rejected leaders of any kind, as we are all supposed to be the same, they prayed in nature and forests, they didn't eat meat, they respected both Creator and the creation, they were against violence of any kind. That is what made it so easy for christians to slaughter them all.

 

Organised religions, at least that is my opinion, have only brought evil to us, nothing good. Faith really should be a personal thing, and I think that the experience of it is much more powerful if it is personnal.

 

Kind regards brother..

 

PS: sorry for spelling mistakes, English is not my 1st language, and I'm typing on my phone, so :-)

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Ah don't worry about the spelling mistakes. And I really appreciate your input. I find it really fascinating what you are writing about. Lots of interesting food for thought.

 

Thank you.

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“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.t,"

 

Matthew 6.6 seems to intimate a quiet practice.

Edited by Mr H
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Not sure what kind of Christian I am, I just value truth and I think Christ/Isa is a good role model, so I guess I'm drawn to Christianity because it's competitors promote lying to nonbelievers. I'm not saying Christianity is the only anti-thesis to dishonesty though, and if people only do good deeds because of a book then they're probably arseholes.

 

As for the Bible, It seems like a literary Rorschach test. I think there is definitely something there, but everyone sees different things; many of which are telling about their own psychology.

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all i know for a FACT is that the Holy Spirit exists and has divinely protected, led and guided me throughout my life being a targeted individual. it took nearly a decade to recognise.

 

i was born a catholic but seem to being shepherded towards some sort of pentecostal evangelism. i know it ain't everyone's cup of tea but satan has deceived and blinded humanity so i understand why there is such disbelief but i can Witness.

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12 hours ago, Mr H said:

“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.t,"

 

Matthew 6.6 seems to intimate a quiet practice.

 

I quote that verse often. It shows you don't need a church - YOU are the church.

 

Compare that advice to the Muslim practice of travelling to Mecca in their thousands to publicly walk in circles praying, or attending a mosque in great numbers 5 times a day to pray publicly with others, it goes against the Mathew teaching and ignores the fact that the kingdom of heaven is in you, you have a connection to the creator and you don't need a church or mediator in the form of a preist, you are a preist if you believe in God.

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I don't believe Christ existed, but I do believe in Christ Consciousness. This sums it up pretty well -

"Christ will incarnate, in a sense, within humanity as a divine state of consciousness. The ‘second coming’ of Christ is a transformation of human consciousness, a shift from time to presence, from thinking to pure consciousness, not the arrival of some man or woman." -- Eckhart Tolle

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