David Icke's claim that 'there is no virus'?

[GeoffB]

13 hours ago, kilowon said:

I have already post the video where Lanka showed his experiment.

Lanka can't even produce a paper for proper scientists to read and try to replicate to see if they come up with the same results. 

Stefan Lanka's much hyped CPE CONTROL EXPERIMENT itself lacks a positive control, ignores that mock-infected cells do show specific damage over time, and that controls are used properly in science. That in no way implies the non-existence of viruses.

A typical viral experiment in simple terms involves a living cell with a virus of interest attached (viruses can NOT be isolated and purified in the dictionary sense of the words and this has always been known by virologists).
This is in a suspension of benign nutrients to keep the cell and the virus alive and antibiotics to alleviate the possibility of bacterial infection.
This is exposed to another cell which does not have a virus attached and if that cell shows a particular degree of degradation then they know that the virus has jumped to the other cell and has infected it.
A control is done via “mock-Infection” whereby the same experiment is done with the exact same ingredients apart from the fact that the cell used does NOT have a virus attached.
Any degradation of the exposed cell will be different to that of the original cell to a trained eye so they know that the first experiment involved a viral attack of the introduced cell and the control “mock-infection” is natural degradation over time.
 

[kilowon]

3 hours ago, GeoffB said:

Lanka can't even produce a paper for proper scientists to read and try to replicate to see if they come up with the same results. 

Stefan Lanka's much hyped CPE CONTROL EXPERIMENT itself lacks a positive control, ignores that mock-infected cells do show specific damage over time, and that controls are used properly in science. That in no way implies the non-existence of viruses.

A typical viral experiment in simple terms involves a living cell with a virus of interest attached (viruses can NOT be isolated and purified in the dictionary sense of the words and this has always been known by virologists).
This is in a suspension of benign nutrients to keep the cell and the virus alive and antibiotics to alleviate the possibility of bacterial infection.
This is exposed to another cell which does not have a virus attached and if that cell shows a particular degree of degradation then they know that the virus has jumped to the other cell and has infected it.
A control is done via “mock-Infection” whereby the same experiment is done with the exact same ingredients apart from the fact that the cell used does NOT have a virus attached.
Any degradation of the exposed cell will be different to that of the original cell to a trained eye so they know that the first experiment involved a viral attack of the introduced cell and the control “mock-infection” is natural degradation over time.
 

I know exactly where you got that wall of text from. Do you ever post anything that is your own opinion or based on your own research? Bot like behaviour. And what exactly is a proper scientist. Is it someone who work at the behest of big pharma? Is it someone taking grant money from Bill gates and the likes? So are we saying now that virus can be infected by bacteria? How does that even work? And how is fetal cow serum or dye benign. Now about the controls for the zhou et al paper since you said they are always done

 

[GeoffB]

8 minutes ago, kilowon said:

I know exactly where you got that wall of text from. Do you ever post anything that is your own opinion or based on your own research? Bot like behaviour. And what exactly is a proper scientist. Is it someone who work at the behest of big pharma? Is it someone taking grant money from Bill gates and the likes? So are we saying now that virus can be infected by bacteria? How does that even work? And how is fetal cow serum or dye benign. Now about the controls for the zhou et al paper since you said they are always done

 

One small paragraph is from someone else the rest is mine.

Lanka is a fraud.

The Zhou paper was the very first where they were rushed to get it published as the world was facing a pandemic of unknown proportions. We have since learnt it's not much of a pandemic.

Thousands of other papers have been published since showing their protocols and the results were the same as Zhou.

Lanka has produced nothing.

[kilowon]

12 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

One small paragraph is from someone else the rest is mine.

Lanka is a fraud.

The Zhou paper was the very first where they were rushed to get it published as the world was facing a pandemic of unknown proportions. We have since learnt it's not much of a pandemic.

Thousands of other papers have been published since showing their protocols and the results were the same as Zhou.

Lanka has produced nothing.

so you admitting there was no control done for Zhou et al? But you just said that control is always done in virology. And why were they rushing when at the time of Zhou's paper there were very few cases of the so called convid virus? There were no emergency. More character assassination of Lanka  from the shill

[kilowon]

16 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

One small paragraph is from someone else the rest is mine.

Lanka is a fraud.

The Zhou paper was the very first where they were rushed to get it published as the world was facing a pandemic of unknown proportions. We have since learnt it's not much of a pandemic.

Thousands of other papers have been published since showing their protocols and the results were the same as Zhou.

Lanka has produced nothing.

So show the control done for the thousands other papers.

[Grumpy Owl]

20 hours ago, kilowon said:

I know. But i see this more as a public service. My hope is those on this forum who still subscribed to the germ theory will read this debate and come away at least with the interest to explore more on the subject of germ theory vs terrain model

 

 

We have other topics for people to discuss these subjects in more detail:

 

 

Also, as an alternative, have a look into German New Medicine:

 

I don't see any further purpose to this thread, which like others is just going round in circles, regurgitating the same arguments over and over.

 

Many people are questioning 'big pharma' and the aims of the 'health industry', thus it is only natural that some will become sceptical when it comes to viruses.

 

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, 'expert virologists' will never turn around and admit they are wrong, after all their livelihood and their career is all based around their belief, or what they have been educated (programmed) to believe.

 

I'm no doctor or scientist, but it is my belief that they could all be wrong about such things.

 

David Icke believes there are no viruses, as do others, and equally there are many people who do believe viruses exist.

[GeoffB]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

We have other topics for people to discuss these subjects in more detail:

 

 

Also, as an alternative, have a look into German New Medicine:

 

I don't see any further purpose to this thread, which like others is just going round in circles, regurgitating the same arguments over and over.

 

Many people are questioning 'big pharma' and the aims of the 'health industry', thus it is only natural that some will become sceptical when it comes to viruses.

 

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, 'expert virologists' will never turn around and admit they are wrong, after all their livelihood and their career is all based around their belief, or what they have been educated (programmed) to believe.

 

I'm no doctor or scientist, but it is my belief that they could all be wrong about such things.

 

David Icke believes there are no viruses, as do others, and equally there are many people who do believe viruses exist.

No one with an ounce of modern virology knowledge,  including thousands of retired scientists with nothing to lose, believes that viruses do not exist.

Even alternative scientists like Rupert Sheldrake has conventional views on Covid.

Hardly any scientist bothers to counter Lanka, Kaufman and Cowan because their ideas are so ridiculous they are not worth the effort.

I'm quite happy to have alternative views on any subject but when those views can be easily countered by facts and science it is time to abandon them for the bunk that they are.

It's a shame that charlatans like Lanka, Kaufman and Cowan have seduced people in the alternative media like David Icke, Jon Rappaport, Mike Adams et al with their nonsense.

I'm beginning to believe that Kaufman with his Svengali like influence using his psychiatrist skills and NLP has deliberately divided the alternative media and is the one who is a shill.

Either that, or just like the rest of them, he is just in it to make money off of the gullible.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

including thousands of retired scientists with nothing to lose

 

Sorry but I did stop reading your post at that point!

 

They have their whole life's belief system to lose!

 

They would, literally, need to determine that all they had thought 'true' has been and was a lie .... very much to lose in my opinion .... in essence, their entire consideration of their life!

[kilowon]

15 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

No one with an ounce of modern virology knowledge,  including thousands of retired scientists with nothing to lose, believes that viruses do not exist.

Even alternative scientists like Rupert Sheldrake has conventional views on Covid.

Hardly any scientist bothers to counter Lanka, Kaufman and Cowan because their ideas are so ridiculous they are not worth the effort.

I'm quite happy to have alternative views on any subject but when those views can be easily countered by facts and science it is time to abandon them for the bunk that they are.

It's a shame that charlatans like Lanka, Kaufman and Cowan have seduced people in the alternative media like David Icke, Jon Rappaport, Mike Adams et al with their nonsense.

I'm beginning to believe that Kaufman with his Svengali like influence using his psychiatrist skills and NLP has deliberately divided the alternative media and is the one who is a shill.

Either that, or just like the rest of them, he is just in it to make money off of the gullible.

Unlike the scientist who are paragon of virtue and would never lie for the benefit of their paymasters. As I have said before, your dismissal and constant insult of anyone who do not kowtow to Rockerfeller' medecine/psuedoscience  says a lot. Like people like Icke and Rappaport are just going to based their belief in the nonreality of virus around just Cowan and Kaufmann. Like those guys are not going to do further research for themselves.

[kilowon]

BTW, Rapapport precede cowan and Kaufmann with the no virus idea. In fact, those two guys are newcomers to this idea. I also noticed that you have not commented on how a non-living piece of materials with no agency of its own can seek and invade cells and hijack them and forced them to reproduced.

[kilowon]

13 minutes ago, ink said:

 

Sorry but I did stop reading your post at that point!

 

They have their whole life's belief system to lose!

 

They would, literally, need to determine that all they had thought 'true' has been and was a lie .... very much to lose in my opinion .... in essence, their entire consideration of their life!

And his constant use of the word thousands, millions and everyone. No way anyone knows what the thousand of retired scientists think since most of them are not even talking about this issue. Plenty of people go through life doing works that they do not believe in just for a pay check.

[Grumpy Owl]

36 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

No one with an ounce of modern virology knowledge,  including thousands of retired scientists with nothing to lose, believes that viruses do not exist.

Even alternative scientists like Rupert Sheldrake has conventional views on Covid.

Hardly any scientist bothers to counter Lanka, Kaufman and Cowan because their ideas are so ridiculous they are not worth the effort.

 

And I go back to what I have said previously, in that 'all these people' with their 'virology knowledge' are never going to turn round and admit that viruses don't exist, because then they would lose any credibility they ever had.

 

If you've ever really followed or read any of David Icke's work, you should know what he means when he talks about "The System". People heaviliy ingrained into, or invested in, The System, rarely break ranks.

 

People like Kaufman, Lanka and Cowan that you keep mentioning may well be frauds, I don't know.

 

But you are never going to get any support for their theories from 'system experts', who have their own vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

 

Like I said, it all comes down to what you yourself believe. You can choose to believe that David Icke is wrong and that viruses exist, because 'virologists say they do'.

 

It's like saying that someone is wrong when they say that 'God doesn't exist', because 'thousands of vicars and priests' believe that God does exist.

 

Well, "they would say that".

[kilowon]

Na Zhu et al. (NEJM): “[We show] an image of sedimented virus particles, not purified ones”                           Wan Beom Park et al. (Journal of Korean Medical Science): “We did not obtain an electron micrograph showing the degree of purification”

Myung-Guk Han et al. (Osong Public Health and Research Perspectives): “We could not estimate the degree of purification because we do not purify and concentrate the virus cultured in cells

Leo L. M. Poon; Malik Peiris (Nature Medicine): “The image is the virus budding from an infected cell. It is not purified virus

Sharon R. Lewin et al. (The Medical Journal of Australia): ““The nucleic acid extraction was performed on isolate material recovered from infected cells. This material was not centrifuged, so was not purified through sucrose gradient to have a density band as such. The EM images were obtained directly from cell culture material

All these quotes come from the first papers that claimed to have discovered the sarscov2. Even the virologist themselves are admitting that their processes for discovering the virus, were at the very least, incomplete.

[Nobby Noboddy]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

And I go back to what I have said previously, in that 'all these people' with their 'virology knowledge' are never going to turn round and admit that viruses don't exist, because then they would lose any credibility they ever had.

 

If you've ever really followed or read any of David Icke's work, you should know what he means when he talks about "The System". People heaviliy ingrained into, or invested in, The System, rarely break ranks.

 

People like Kaufman, Lanka and Cowan that you keep mentioning may well be frauds, I don't know.

 

But you are never going to get any support for their theories from 'system experts', who have their own vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

 

Like I said, it all comes down to what you yourself believe. You can choose to believe that David Icke is wrong and that viruses exist, because 'virologists say they do'.

 

It's like saying that someone is wrong when they say that 'God doesn't exist', because 'thousands of vicars and priests' believe that God does exist.

 

Well, "they would say that".

I don't think Lanka is a fraud. He invested his own time effort and money to provide a verifiable proof that the very process to 'isolate' a virus creates what they identify as a virus - DOH!

[GeoffB]

2 hours ago, ink said:

 

Sorry but I did stop reading your post at that point!

 

They have their whole life's belief system to lose!

 

They would, literally, need to determine that all they had thought 'true' has been and was a lie .... very much to lose in my opinion .... in essence, their entire consideration of their life!

Many retired medical professionals are now questioning the whole Covid narrative now they are not worried about being sacked.

Many retired climate scientists are now speaking out about the whole Global Warming narrative.

Not one retired scientist has questioned whether viruses exist because they know it is bunkum.

[GeoffB]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

And I go back to what I have said previously, in that 'all these people' with their 'virology knowledge' are never going to turn round and admit that viruses don't exist, because then they would lose any credibility they ever had.

 

If you've ever really followed or read any of David Icke's work, you should know what he means when he talks about "The System". People heaviliy ingrained into, or invested in, The System, rarely break ranks.

 

People like Kaufman, Lanka and Cowan that you keep mentioning may well be frauds, I don't know.

 

But you are never going to get any support for their theories from 'system experts', who have their own vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

 

Like I said, it all comes down to what you yourself believe. You can choose to believe that David Icke is wrong and that viruses exist, because 'virologists say they do'.

 

It's like saying that someone is wrong when they say that 'God doesn't exist', because 'thousands of vicars and priests' believe that God does exist.

 

Well, "they would say that".

Modern virology is a highly complex discipline with it's own terminology.

Because it is difficult to understand it is easy for charlatans to make outrageous claims which sound appealing to those who haven't researched the undisputed facts.

Every claim that Lanka, Kaufman, Cowan and their proxies have made have been countered by facts.

Not one scientist or medic involved in exposing the Covid scam supports the fringe view that viruses do not exist.

Mike Yeadon, Judy Mikovits, Andrew Wakefied et al have nothing else to lose as their careers have already been ruined by "the system".

So it's not just "system" scientists it's also scientists outside the "system" who don't agree with Lanka, Kaufman, Cowan et al.

David Icke is wrong not because of my belief system but because of the indisputable facts.

[GeoffB]

29 minutes ago, Nobby Noboddy said:

I don't think Lanka is a fraud. He invested his own time effort and money to provide a verifiable proof that the very process to 'isolate' a virus creates what they identify as a virus - DOH!

Where does Lanka get his money from?

He publishes a monthly magazine, runs a website with advertising revenue, sells books and offers pills, lotions and potions all to the gullible.

He can afford top lawyers to appeal a court decision where he had to cough up 100,000 euros to a lowly poor medical student who proved to the court that the measles virus exists. Lanka got off on a legal technicality.

Lanka has no written verifiable proof that viruses do not exist because he knows it will be torn to shreds by people who understand viruses.

Lanka is a fraud.

[GeoffB]

1 hour ago, kilowon said:

Na Zhu et al. (NEJM): “[We show] an image of sedimented virus particles, not purified ones”                           Wan Beom Park et al. (Journal of Korean Medical Science): “We did not obtain an electron micrograph showing the degree of purification”

Myung-Guk Han et al. (Osong Public Health and Research Perspectives): “We could not estimate the degree of purification because we do not purify and concentrate the virus cultured in cells

Leo L. M. Poon; Malik Peiris (Nature Medicine): “The image is the virus budding from an infected cell. It is not purified virus

Sharon R. Lewin et al. (The Medical Journal of Australia): ““The nucleic acid extraction was performed on isolate material recovered from infected cells. This material was not centrifuged, so was not purified through sucrose gradient to have a density band as such. The EM images were obtained directly from cell culture material

All these quotes come from the first papers that claimed to have discovered the sarscov2. Even the virologist themselves are admitting that their processes for discovering the virus, were at the very least, incomplete.

There are literally tens of thousands of scientific papers which confirm the original findings of the very first Zhu rushed paper.

Lanka has NO paper describing his fringe view and so-called experiment.

[Grumpy Owl]

28 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

Every claim that Lanka, Kaufman, Cowan and their proxies have made have been countered by facts.

Not one scientist or medic involved in exposing the Covid scam supports the fringe view that viruses do not exist.

Mike Yeadon, Judy Mikovits, Andrew Wakefied et al have nothing else to lose as their careers have already been ruined by "the system".

So it's not just "system" scientists it's also scientists outside the "system" who don't agree with Lanka, Kaufman, Cowan et al.

David Icke is wrong not because of my belief system but because of the indisputable facts.

 

Whose "facts" though?

 

I do seriously note with interest that this particular thread is the only one you ever participate in, despite being someone who supposedly has followed David Icke and believes/supports much of what he has previously said/written.

 

Despite what you insist, you're coming across like a gatekeeper to me. Prove me wrong, or be gone from here.

[GeoffB]

20 minutes ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

Whose "facts" though?

 

I do seriously note with interest that this particular thread is the only one you ever participate in, despite being someone who supposedly has followed David Icke and believes/supports much of what he has previously said/written.

 

Despite what you insist, you're coming across like a gatekeeper to me. Prove me wrong, or be gone from here.

Virology is an exact science.

Viruses existing is a provable fact.

I'm quite happy to believe in abstract concepts and theories and that is why I've been following David Icke for 20 years.

I'll send you a photograph of all his books I have if you like and a photo of my Wembley ticket.

With all the questions I have to answer on this thread doesn't give me much time to contribute on any other thread.

As I agree with 99% of what David Icke says I cannot add much to the debate as David has said it all.

I am constantly backing David on other forums that are hostile to him.

Pointing out David's mistake of listening to Kaufman a self confessed Natural Healing Consultant and Psychiatrist for an important subject of the existence of viruses during a "Plandemic" and a Global Elite hoax doesn't make me a gatekeeper.

He has admitted the existence of viruses previously in his books and videos but now he has changed his mind that they no longer exist.

If he wanted some advice on viruses he should listen instead to people like Judy Mikovits, Mike Yeadon and Andrew Wakefield.

[novymir]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

Whose "facts" though?

 

I do seriously note with interest that this particular thread is the only one you ever participate in, despite being someone who supposedly has followed David Icke and believes/supports much of what he has previously said/written.

 

Despite what you insist, you're coming across like a gatekeeper to me. Prove me wrong, or be gone from here.

It's pretty clear here... D.I. encourages Self-Realization and expression without totalitarian, fraudulent authority meddling or imposition. WE DECIDE.

This guy here, and his wife works in the "health care industry" so he said early in this thread...a "front line worker"...

This dude here is basically spitting on what D.I. has been communicating...he likes D.I. til his own illusions are doubted, questioned, or rejected by others,,, so it seems. Then he turns into a snake spitting venom on his perceived "enemies".

Video from different thread here... watch.. The "virus" idea is a choice. End Of. (in other words: we don't want your stinking "virus"......thanks but  NO THANKS!!  Get it?

.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by novymir

[zArk]

On 10/22/2021 at 4:43 PM, GeoffB said:

Scientists use zero or the minimum amount of contaminants possible to achieve a true result otherwise they would end up with a false result which is of no use to anyone.

Unless of course you think that millions of scientists all over the world are falsifying every result just to perpetuate your perceived myth that viruses do not exist.

now on the other side of this issue, the human body

 

the immunity argument places a couple of layers of 'immune system' ,innate and adaptive .

the adaptive has antibodies and here is where some of the problems , discrepancies and contradictory results occur for the immunity model

• IGM should reduce after [infection] but this doesn't happen in all cases
• in some cases [an infected] people do not have IGM but have IGG
• in some cases of [never infected] and [not infected] the people test positive for antibodies
• antibody volume does not correlate to degree of illness
• different antibody tests produce different % results of infected samples

I say there is a body system working to clean up toxic cells, dead cells and poisons in the body but it is not a defense from invading viral organisms instead it is constantly repairing and maintaining the body.

 

Further on from this i consider vaccines dangerous because their underlying principle of action is flawed. If the vaccine does stop [symptoms] (which is considered a win by germ theory) this is stopping the body cleaning up toxic cells which results in an artificially induced morbidity (see Peter Aaby)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GeoffB]

One fundamental point people are missing about David Icke saying that viruses do not exist and a question I would like answered.
David Icke has famously said in the past when he was talking, correctly in my view, about the Global Elites plan of control and to cull the population “Stage one you create a problem. It could be a manufactured virus”.
China and Iran have accused the US of deliberately releasing the virus as a bioweapon.
Someone in the future may release a virus as a bioweapon.
If the Chinese and Iranian governments are right that the US released the virus as a bioweapon or someone releases a virus as a bioweapon in the future (something David Icke has predicted) how will David Icke inform the world or explain with any authority when he is saying now that “viruses do not exist”?
 

[Michelle T]

Viruses are a symptom of a weakened immune system. Our immune systems are being obliterated by any given hundred things we come across every day. Besides vaccines. Pesticides, fluoride, chemtrails, Big Pharma, fake sugars, hidden ingredients, satellites, 5G, electrical outlets, television sets, computers, WiFi, microwaves, EMFs, heavy metals.

 

Our immune systems can usually process this, but a certain level accumulation, and you get sick. It’s the things that are busting our immune systems and then these viruses we all have are multiplying and triggering illness. That’s what Covid is.

 

to be more precise, they aren’t viruses as we have understood them. It is our bodies reaction to toxins. That response in our body that says, oh.shit, we gotta fight this, let’s go. That is what people have called viruses because of the way they have looked at them through the PCR test. 

The body’s immune response is what they are calling Covid. All the symptoms, fever, congestion, coughing, our bodies are trying to get the foreign substance out and fight it. 
 

Like the symptoms you have with a cold. That’s your body trying to get whatever toxin got in, out. And we create over the counter medication to subdue those symptoms.

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Michelle T

[kilowon]

12 hours ago, GeoffB said:

There are literally tens of thousands of scientific papers which confirm the original findings of the very first Zhu rushed paper.

Lanka has NO paper describing his fringe view and so-called experiment.

Addressed the point in my post, I did not mentioned Lanka at all there. Why are the virologist themselves admitting that they did not follow proper procedure to prove that sarscov2 exist and that it is the cause of a disease. Again, where are the literally tens of thousand of scientific papers that confirm the original finding. The fact that you yourself have not read tens of thousands of papers about sarscov2 isolation shows again that you are just parroting and have no idea if that is so.